Why are all the planets so linear?

[Edzew]

They weren't as big as you remember. Alderaan is bigger than anything in SWG. I used to do a lot of surveying and driving from one end of the planet to the other was only a few mins. They were also mostly empty planets.

 

I do miss the crafting though. Best crafting of any MMO before or since.

 

i agree with you on the crafting part but not with the rest.. the planets were huge in SWG and they werent empty before NGE hit but they were after because all the player cities went away. there was also a lot of really cool places to find on every planet. also even on a speeder it would take up to 15 min to get from one corner of the map to the opposite corner. now i havnt been to alderaan yet in this game so it may be as big as you are saying but so far every planet ive been on has been tiny and very limited in exploration, the only MMO i know of that is like this one is D&D online and that game was horrible but it had even less exploration.

[Kleryk]

No, you run into many artificial walls in WoW. Yes you can fly for miles in that game and that's awesome, but it's not like you can take off from a point on Azeroth and fly around the planet. Plus, WoW has the exhaustion zones that are complained about here. I'm sure that the devs got the idea from WoW.

 

You might be right, I quit WoW when Cata hit the stores after the lore disgrace that WotLK was. I don't understand your concern about the taking off from a random point and flying around the planet. You are just nitpicking right now unless Cata/Poodaria brought some serious restrictions.

 

I mean.. what do you expect them to do, let you fly from Booty Bay to Ulduar and then turn around to visit the Maelstrom? You forget about the zones that are to be added in future expansions. What if there were absolutely no bariers when Gilneas was not revamped? Also - look at the map of Azeroth, flying from Eastern Kingdoms to Kalimdor would take ages of looking at same pattern of countless squares of same water textures before you reached it. They are separated into two different zones for technical reasons, not cluttering whole world in one instance.

 

So, yeah, I'd rather have it as it was before I quit the game than be able to explore vast oceans of Azeroth. Only places that WoW did not allow you to get but you saw them were the skies above boring oceans(because who would want to explore the vast nothingness) and their bottoms that would be extremely uninteresting if they were left empty while cluttering them with objects would be just a waste of resources and server space. Want nearly unlimited free roam? Someone mentioned EVE Online before.

[Arkerus]

I dont know that I have ever played an MMO that is so linear as SWTOR. You really can't explore much because the planets are actually "hallways" that you cant really divert from. Is this bad gaming design? Or, a product of the HeroEngine?

 

SWTOR feels more like a single player game to me. I mean we shouldn't have expected much more considoring Bioware is not an MMORPG company and never was. I guess we got what we should have expected from this inexperinced group of developers.

 

 

When leveling in WoW you are shoved down a narrowly branching path. You always head to the same places. If you don't like a leveling experience that is directional, go play a different game.

 

The feel the planets has nothing to do with being single player and multi player. People who say that don't understand they are variable independent of eachother. You are just spouting of talking points and misnomers that have been around since day one without actually thinking about what you are saying.

 

Judge a product for what it is, not for what you want it to be.

Edited December 9, 2012 by Arkerus

[RazielHex]

I disagree. WoW, Rift, STO, CO, Aion, are not like that at all. LOTRO isnt either for that matter. Again, name another MMO that is linear and anti-explore as this one. Im sure there are some, maybe one's I havent played.

 

Uhh, WarCraft and AION are exactly like this, but without the benefit of a personalized story based on your class.

[TalkingDinosaur]

LOl, they were huge though, even on a speeder it would take ages to cross the planet.. In this game you deviate by a tiny amount from the area BW expect you to go and you hit an exhaustion zone. Tatooine is the worst for this.

That's probably where SWG's budget went. Spending tons of money making rollings hills of nothing where you actually stumble upon a cave that has 0 importance, literally nothing to do, but grind enemies, but if you're lucky maybe you'll find a collectible item that does absolutely nothing to your ingame experience other than telling your friends: "Hey! I just found Blasbo Bubbins crusty toothbrush!"

 

By the way, having large open areas is nice, but not to the point where quests are boring, tedious, long drives to distant locations.

LOl, they were huge though, even on a speeder it would take ages to cross the planet..

Good point, I'm mean who doesn't like pointing their toon in one direction, toggling autorun, and finding something to do for a good 10 minutes until you arrive at your location, but God forbid you tab back into the game and see that a 5 inch tall rock brought your toon to a complete stop barely 200m from where you started.

Edited December 9, 2012 by TalkingDinosaur

[Master-Nala]

You might be right, I quit WoW when Cata hit the stores after the lore disgrace that WotLK was. I don't understand your concern about the taking off from a random point and flying around the planet. You are just nitpicking right now unless Cata/Poodaria brought some serious restrictions.

 

Remember my question. Folks are denouncing SWTOR for its lack of exploration. My argument is that all MMORPGs are finite and none allow you to completely explore every inch of the world. I am not criticizing WoW, just noting that it is not much better than SWTOR IMO for exploration.

[Kleryk]

Remember my question. Folks are denouncing SWTOR for its lack of exploration. My argument is that all MMORPGs are finite and none allow you to completely explore every inch of the world. I am not criticizing WoW, just noting that it is not much better than SWTOR IMO for exploration.

 

Oh, no, no, no, no. I beg you to differ, sir or madam! In WoW you can reach any piece of landscape. Fly to any house you see, sit at the top of any waterfall, visit any dancing troll village you spot on your taxi way. You can sit on the top of Icecrown Citadel, have a picnic on top of Blackrock Mountain or a stroll on the Greymane Wall.

 

While I don't want to sound like a WoW fanboy, I must admit that it offered much more for passionate explorers. TOR planets are narrow hallways limited by either invisible walls, exhaustion zones or mountains as someone mentioned. You can't get past them. In WoW you can.

 

Only good thing for explorers in TOR are the datacrons. They're fun to hunt.

[Revanchis]

SWTOR isn't designed as an open exploration game. Perhaps you'd be more interested in Skyrim.

[Klarick]

SWTOR isn't designed as an open exploration game. .

 

And this is why it has failed in the MMO world. They, Bioware Developers, thought they could pass a single player game as an MMO. They did not, and still DO NOT, understand the MMO player base or the culture. This is why they have failed, and why many of them were sent to the unemployment line.

[Revanchis]

And this is why it has failed in the MMO world. They, Bioware Developers, thought they could pass a single player game as an MMO. They did not, and still DO NOT, understand the MMO player base or the culture. This is why they have failed, and why many of them were sent to the unemployment line.

 

It's not a singleplayer game. I love Bioware's singleplayer games, this game however feels very much like an MMO. If making it less linear and cutting the story is what would make it fit for MMO culture you might as well not make it a Bioware game.

 

I'll never understand why the **** anyone would come to a Bioware game and expect there to be little to no story. Stories are what they do. They are the masters of weaving intricate tales. This game has made so many concessions for it's ******** MMO aspects you can see it clear in the design.

[Revanchis]

LOl, they were huge though, even on a speeder it would take ages to cross the planet.. In this game you deviate by a tiny amount from the area BW expect you to go and you hit an exhaustion zone. Tatooine is the worst for this.

 

Do you really want huge and empty maps? Why would that appeal to you? I find these maps to be much too big already. There's so much tedious walking between objectives. It justs makes for more tedious content with respawning mobs.

[Klarick]

It's not a singleplayer game. I love Bioware's singleplayer games, this game however feels very much like an MMO. If making it less linear and cutting the story is what would make it fit for MMO culture you might as well not make it a Bioware game.

 

I'll never understand why the **** anyone would come to a Bioware game and expect there to be little to no story. Stories are what they do. They are the masters of weaving intricate tales. This game has made so many concessions for it's ******** MMO aspects you can see it clear in the design.

 

I dont think anyone came into SWTOR thinking there would be no story. But many of us did come into thegame expecting an MMO and what we got instead was SWTOR. A game that misread the MMO community so badly that people lost their jobs, some lost their careers. That part of the stark reality of SWTOR's failure is sad. When people fail on this level (millions of development dollars) there are huge reprecussions

Edited December 9, 2012 by Klarick

[MiaRB]

I dont think anyone came into SWTOR thinking there would be no story. But many of us did come into thegame expecting an MMO and what we got instead was SWTOR. A game that misread the MMO community so badly that people lost their jobs, some lost their careers. That part of the stark reality of SWTOR's failure is sad. When people fail on this level (millions of development dollars) there are huge reprecussions

 

why are you here? you seem to spend all your time spamming the forums with threads and post that all are about the same thing? if you dont like the game then unsub and stop playing it. people who do like it will keep playing it.

 

you want to know what really is "fail"? its when people go postal over a game and spend hours and hours on the forums and keep posting the same, "BW = fail!, devs = fail! EA = fail! life = fail!".

[sstanks]

Oh, no, no, no, no. I beg you to differ, sir or madam! In WoW you can reach any piece of landscape. Fly to any house you see, sit at the top of any waterfall, visit any dancing troll village you spot on your taxi way. You can sit on the top of Icecrown Citadel, have a picnic on top of Blackrock Mountain or a stroll on the Greymane Wall.

 

While I don't want to sound like a WoW fanboy, I must admit that it offered much more for passionate explorers. TOR planets are narrow hallways limited by either invisible walls, exhaustion zones or mountains as someone mentioned. You can't get past them. In WoW you can.

 

Only good thing for explorers in TOR are the datacrons. They're fun to hunt.

 

but you realize that the flying mounts have destroyed WoW. The developers have even said that as it allows players to bypass massive amounts of content.

[RazielHex]

Oh, no, no, no, no. I beg you to differ, sir or madam! In WoW you can reach any piece of landscape. Fly to any house you see, sit at the top of any waterfall, visit any dancing troll village you spot on your taxi way. You can sit on the top of Icecrown Citadel, have a picnic on top of Blackrock Mountain or a stroll on the Greymane Wall.

 

Which took 6 years to do post-launch.

Edited December 9, 2012 by RazielHex

[DaRoamer]

I dont think anyone came into SWTOR thinking there would be no story. But many of us did come into thegame expecting an MMO and what we got instead was SWTOR. A game that misread the MMO community so badly that people lost their jobs, some lost their careers. That part of the stark reality of SWTOR's failure is sad. When people fail on this level (millions of development dollars) there are huge reprecussions

 

"Our Game is Awesome and People Want to Play it!"

 

That was the quote from Bioware before FTP. The article went to say that they (BW) believed the Subscription Model was the reason that was holding people back from SWTOR. Many of you THRASHED this comment saying how wrong Bioware was...etc...etc.

 

Well, what say you now? Early indications show that they were right! Not just right, a little bit. But right in a huge way! Server numbers have quadrupled since FTP, and by the looks of all the cool stuff people are showing off, they are loving the Cartel Shop! Of course no one can predict the future, but all arrows are pointing up for this amazing game. I for one am glad -- this is exactly the reaction that SWTOR deserves and has now earned!

 

Impressive Bioware! And good Job.

[Mawduce]

I dont know that I have ever played an MMO that is so linear as SWTOR. You really can't explore much because the planets are actually "hallways" that you cant really divert from. Is this bad gaming design? Or, a product of the HeroEngine?

 

SWTOR feels more like a single player game to me. I mean we shouldn't have expected much more considoring Bioware is not an MMORPG company and never was. I guess we got what we should have expected from this inexperinced group of developers.

 

You never played Warhammer Online then. WAAAAY more linear.

[Glordin]

"Our Game is Awesome and People Want to Play it!"

 

That was the quote from Bioware before FTP. The article went to say that they (BW) believed the Subscription Model was the reason that was holding people back from SWTOR. Many of you THRASHED this comment saying how wrong Bioware was...etc...etc.

 

Well, what say you now? Early indications show that they were right! Not just right, a little bit. But right in a huge way! Server numbers have quadrupled since FTP, and by the looks of all the cool stuff people are showing off, they are loving the Cartel Shop! Of course no one can predict the future, but all arrows are pointing up for this amazing game. I for one am glad -- this is exactly the reaction that SWTOR deserves and has now earned!

 

Impressive Bioware! And good Job.

 

What are you talking about? Yes with F2P there was a surge in players. X-Fire indicated about 4x more players which seems reasonable. But since that first weekend of F2P, players have been dropping alot and still are. Already there is 30% drop in players and sales on cartel market is gonna drop aswell when it feels less new. Many more subs are likely to go preferred than F2P is gonna bring subs. It's still the same game that lost over a million subscribers and it will still be shutdown or put into an even more dead maintenance mode than it already is. Success.... ye right.

[-Me-]

"Our Game is Awesome and People Want to Play it!"

 

That was the quote from Bioware before FTP. The article went to say that they (BW) believed the Subscription Model was the reason that was holding people back from SWTOR. Many of you THRASHED this comment saying how wrong Bioware was...etc...etc.

 

Well, what say you now? Early indications show that they were right! Not just right, a little bit. But right in a huge way! Server numbers have quadrupled since FTP, and by the looks of all the cool stuff people are showing off, they are loving the Cartel Shop! Of course no one can predict the future, but all arrows are pointing up for this amazing game. I for one am glad -- this is exactly the reaction that SWTOR deserves and has now earned!

 

Impressive Bioware! And good Job.

 

Don't you think it's a little early to count your eggs now? Remember launch, the 1st one a year ago? Remember how busy it was then? Remember how fast it turned not so busy? F2P isn't even a month old yet, I haven's seen any figures, have you? How many of these people are actually spending anything?

 

When F2P started I was seeing 3,4 or 5 instances on some planets, especially the starter ones. I was on Korriban today, a Saturday, in the middle of the day and it had 2 instances. I even seen Hoth with 4 instances but haven't seen any planet anywhere more than 2 instances this week. Does that mean the game is flopping again with a F2P exodus? I'm not making that claim yet but I'm also not so arrogant to claim what your claiming so soon.

[aeterno]

The fact story is by definition linear makes for linear planet design.

 

Other theme park mmos have linear paths through them as well, at most you can choose from 2 lvl appropriate zones to quest in at lvl X to get to lvl Y.

 

Only problem with TOR is it doesn't try very hard to mask it with overall planet design.

 

Meaning more planets should be like tatooine and hoth and less like correlia. Then again, how on earth are you gonna build a city planet in the tattoine mold?

Edited December 9, 2012 by aeterno

[PBSkrilla]

i agree with most points made in this thread. Cata in WoW was extremely linear like this game. i think it made leveling easy, and it goes the same for this game. the thing i dont like is the fact that once you leave a planet, you never have incentive to come back. in cata there were materials in old zones that you needed to craft certain items. with exploring planets, sure you can deviate from the path, but you'd be met with endless hoards of mobs. also something i noticed is that world pvp is non existent because its so linear. it all makes for bad longevity of the game, and focusing on creating new end game pve experiences wont fix anything either, at least in my opinion. at lvl 50, the only things you'll see are ops, the daily planets, and your fleet/starship. not really something i'd want to put money into every month. i didn't even mention all bugs in this game, its like they dont even care at this point.

[DaRoamer]

What are you talking about? Yes with F2P there was a surge in players. X-Fire indicated about 4x more players which seems reasonable. But since that first weekend of F2P, players have been dropping alot and still are. Already there is 30% drop in players and sales on cartel market is gonna drop aswell when it feels less new. Many more subs are likely to go preferred than F2P is gonna bring subs. It's still the same game that lost over a million subscribers and it will still be shutdown or put into an even more dead maintenance mode than it already is. Success.... ye right.

 

Don't you think it's a little early to count your eggs now? Remember launch, the 1st one a year ago? Remember how busy it was then? Remember how fast it turned not so busy? F2P isn't even a month old yet, I haven's seen any figures, have you? How many of these people are actually spending anything?

 

When F2P started I was seeing 3,4 or 5 instances on some planets, especially the starter ones. I was on Korriban today, a Saturday, in the middle of the day and it had 2 instances. I even seen Hoth with 4 instances but haven't seen any planet anywhere more than 2 instances this week. Does that mean the game is flopping again with a F2P exodus? I'm not making that claim yet but I'm also not so arrogant to claim what your claiming so soon.

 

Oh, I'm sorry, I should have specified that that was originally a post from the same guy who started this thread from 2 weeks ago.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=559882

[Katsuragisama]

Seriously? They even added more barriers to further prevent open world PvP a couple patches back. I dont remember patch, or what time, but I do remember reading it in the patch notes after reading about it on the forums. If you say this game is not linear, you need to look up the definition of linear...

 

As few people have already said, you shouldn't count your chickens before they hatch. If torstatus.net is somewhat accurate, population peaks are already nearing that of pre-F2P levels. Atleast LOTRO took longer than a month to fall back to pre-F2P numbers...

 

In my opinion, I give it one (1) or two (2) months more until the population dwindles to or below pre-F2P numbers. But either way we wont know how much of a failure or success is until the 30th or 31st of January, which I think should be the next EA investors calls.

 

If it's a massive success, then great. If it's still a failure after a year, and losing most of its subs or failing to retain 80% of the people that bought the box before F2P... I'd be a little worried. They never said how long they needed to maintain 500k subs (To break even, BTW.)... Or this game slides into maintenance mode like that of their previous failure, Warhammer.

Edited December 9, 2012 by Katsuragisama

[Klarick]

Oh, I'm sorry, I should have specified that that was originally a post from the same guy who started this thread from 2 weeks ago.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=559882

 

Correct you are Sir! I was once, and up to very recently, one of SWTOR's biggest supporters, biggest fan if you will. I see you have looked at my post history. You will see many many post and threads from me defending this game, the developers, the community manager, the customer support team etc...etc....etc.... However, they have drained me by one misstep after another. You can only misstreat your customer so many times before they just give up and fall in line with the majority of the crowd -- the so-called "haters" if you will. A good obediant dog will bite back if hit enough times.

 

It dawmed on me that these people are not haters at all. They are people that love star wars and are supremely dissapointed by this product. I, in fact now understand, was doing more harm than good. Defending this game is NOT what this game needs or what Star Wars deserves. What it needs are more people screaming out just how bad every aspect of this game is. From every level, every department of this current SWTOR team. EA fired many people; however, not enough in my opinion. I would of sent every single one of them to the unemployment office. Harsh? Yeah it is, but If I fail this bad at work, or perform so poorly representing my company through pathetic customer service, you can bet your life I would be held responsible and accountable.

 

So, yeah you caught me. I have gone from staunch supporter of EA/Bioware/SWTOR to a harsh critic. This game, NEEDS to change! I love Star Wars, and it deserves so much better than the current level of incompetence that it has been given.

Edited December 9, 2012 by Klarick

[Scathe]

EA fired many people; however, not enough in my opinion. I would of sent every single one of them to the unemployment office. Harsh? Yeah it is, but If I fail this bad at work, or perform so poorly representing my company through pathetic customer service, you can bet your life I would be held responsible and accountable.

 

See, in my opinion, and keep in mind, it's just my opinion, this is what got the game in trouble in the first place. Staff lay offs and firings ended up getting rid of most of the development team that worked on this game, and most of the customer service that were talking with the player base. And in return, EA had to hire new people from other projects, that notably didn't go well, to bring in their own designs and now we are given the cluster-**** that we have today.

 

The firing of the staff was a knee jerk reaction that ended up putting the game in a bad position since now over half of the original staff of Bioware is gone, hell, even the founders jumped ship. And without them, and the original design team of the game, TOR has started to steadily fall down hill. I honestly think if they had kept the original team and not thrown around the layoff hammer the game would be in much better shape. I mean when you really think about it, it's easy to fire people, but then once they are gone you start looking for others to come in and take their place, and those other people have a totally different idea for where they want to take the game.