Gear is partially to blame for tank shortage

[Godlymuppet]

Theres often posts about lack of tanks and healers.

 

The root cause of this is gear (the playstyle to, but gear is definately contributing to this).

 

Being a tank you need 2 totally different sets of gear if you want to do any dps at all and healers have it to a slightly lesser extent.

 

Its really easy to solve so i dont understand why it never gets addressed.

 

Now if ever anyone says that, some troll will say "so my smart *** say how to solve it" well here you go-

 

All tank stnaces increase stamina by 20%.

 

in the 25-30 talent point slots in the talent trees add the following talent

1 point crit gives an equal amount of defense

2 points surge gives an equal amount of absorb

3 points power gives an equal amount of shield

 

Add a similar talent in the healing trees at the same place whwre accuracy adds an equal amount of alacrity.

 

With that simple fix gear stats become more even, just primary stat and endurence, with power or cit and surge or accuracy.

 

All classes then just need 1 set of gear (2 for pvp).

 

Also if they made it so shielding worked on all attacks, people would then play full on tanks in PVP also.

 

They could even fix their hatred of hybrid specs by having set bonuses be decided by which 31 point talent you have. Hybrids would get no bonus as they have no 31 point talent (which would make the devs happy as all devs seem to try to stamp out hybrid specs in any game).

 

Now im no genious, but to me that would make tanks and to a lesser extent healers (as there are already more of those) much more apealing, as the tanks would do more damage than they do now (they would have all the damage stats as well as tank stats, but with not having damage talents, they would still only do about 80% of the dps of a pure dps) and you could just keep your dps gear and not have to grind out a new set of gear to even give tanking a try like you need to now.

 

Coding that would not take 3 months, so it could be put in soon and really have an impact on the number of tanks and healers we have available.

Edited December 7, 2012 by Godlymuppet

[MrSchmo]

I have a hard time understanding. Why do I need 2 sets of gear? All I do is tank and raid and I do fine with 1 set. Why do I need a dps set? That what a dps is for. I don't care how much damage I'm putting out. I'm there to control the fight and keep the attention on me.

[Scathe]

I have a hard time understanding. Why do I need 2 sets of gear? All I do is tank and raid and I do fine with 1 set. Why do I need a dps set? That what a dps is for. I don't care how much damage I'm putting out. I'm there to control the fight and keep the attention on me.

 

This.

[Mateops]

I have a hard time understanding. Why do I need 2 sets of gear? All I do is tank and raid and I do fine with 1 set. Why do I need a dps set? That what a dps is for. I don't care how much damage I'm putting out. I'm there to control the fight and keep the attention on me.

 

I agree with you, but I would like one more skill for taunts. There is nothing as frustrating when both of em are on cooldown and you hear someone getting hit.

 

Sorry but you will have to wait 18 seconds...

[lpope]

IMO, it's a small part of the reason why they are shortages and it really only impacts tanks that want to do dailies as dps because they don't gear out their dps companions.

 

Let's be honest here, the shortage of tanks has more to do with it requiring more thought and planning than dpsing. That combined with now easy way to show off your big numbers ie. no "I just had a 7k crit on that boss" or "I just had a 7k crit heal", makes tanking a role that doesn't provide any glory or bragging rights.

[Ms_Sunlight]

Hmm. I don't think that gear is the problem. I run tanks, healers and DPS. My PT and Shadow are tanks, I've just dinged 50 on a JG who is pure Vigilance DPS. I think the problem is, more people want to DPS than tank or heal. No matter how many people run dual specs, they're only going to be queueing in one role at a time, aren't they? You know if you queue as tank and DPS, you're going to get matched as a tank. I'd far rather wait a little longer for someone who knows how to play as tank than end up with someone who doesn't know their role but queued as tank for a faster queue pop.

[Scathe]

IMO, it's a small part of the reason why they are shortages and it really only impacts tanks that want to do dailies as dps because they don't gear out their dps companions.

 

Let's be honest here, the shortage of tanks has more to do with it requiring more thought and planning than dpsing. That combined with now easy way to show off your big numbers ie. no "I just had a 7k crit on that boss" or "I just had a 7k crit heal", makes tanking a role that doesn't provide any glory or bragging rights.

 

But tanks do get glory and do have bragging rights. While they are off saying they got a 7k crit on a boss or a 7k crit heal, the tank can say, "And I kept the boss off of you so you could get that crit." Or, "And I took the damage that let you get that 7k crit."

[lpope]

But tanks do get glory and do have bragging rights. While they are off saying they got a 7k crit on a boss or a 7k crit heal, the tank can say, "And I kept the boss off of you so you could get that crit." Or, "And I took the damage that let you get that 7k crit."

 

Yes, you can brag about it, but it is by gut feel only. Other than parsing logs and analyzing threat gen, there is no easy in game way to show it with the exception of PvP end game summary. There is nothing equivalent for the tank to screenshot big numbers as proof.

[Capt_Beers]

Cool, exactly what we need. More tanks putting out crazy damage and never dying in PvP (Sins/Shadows in particular).

[TheBBP]

There are a lot of tanks who seem to get along just fine. It just takes more effort to be a good healer and a good tank than it does to be good DPS. Most folks do not want to make that effort.

 

I am not demeaning anyone who DPS's for fun here, but no matter what you say, DPS is a role where you can kick back, spam your rotation and enjoy the show. Healers spend a lot of time watching health bars. Tanks spend all of their time trying to maintain control. They take effort.

 

Gear has nothing to do for a perceived tank shortage. If you want to chalk it up to anything, it is an abundance of people with a lazy playstyle.

Edited December 7, 2012 by TheBBP

[Ephesia]

But tanks do get glory and do have bragging rights. While they are off saying they got a 7k crit on a boss or a 7k crit heal, the tank can say, "And I kept the boss off of you so you could get that crit." Or, "And I took the damage that let you get that 7k crit."

 

really? you feel proud about that? I never even felt like that once my entire tanking career in this game mate

 

Imo tanking remains a largely thankless job, but most thrilling part about is how you are always up close and personal with the "scary" bosses in a "Come at me, bro" fashion

[Mateops]

Also... my main is a tank and I enjoy playing him alot and its my favorite role by far.

 

BUT some nights, you just feel like raiding and not having the pressure, or your watching a movie on the sides, or you want to have a few beers while playing, then I play DPS... if I make a 3 seconds mistake as a DPS who will know? or who will even care? Some fights are so easy with DPS we just burn up the boss and I am having a discussion with someone in RL pressing one button...

 

It feels like most of the tricky mechanics end up being the tanks job, not all, but most. Healing is half way in between, IMO, but healers get more love, since you see their name in big green letters whilke they are saving your *****.

 

When the tank does well, its a good team effort, but when the tank ****s up its his fault, Im a hockey goalie in RL and it kinds of feels the same way lol.

[Scathe]

really? you feel proud about that? I never even felt like that once my entire tanking career in this game mate

 

Imo tanking remains a largely thankless job, but most thrilling part about is how you are always up close and personal with the "scary" bosses in a "Come at me, bro" fashion

 

It's not so much pride as it is "I kept you alive so that you could be awesome." Large numbers are just that, large numbers. They really shouldn't matter, the only reason they do is because people are obsessed with their epeen. I'd much rather be able to say "Good for you, but it was because of me that you could do that."

[Warshades]

I think he is referencing tanking in pvp not pve. This is an atmosphere where tanks are often time not required. Sure there are some benifits like holding off an objective longer, while you wait for reinforcements. But generally speaking PvP is more offensive in nature and many tanks in full tank gear are a hell of alot weaker on the pvp side. Many tanks spec the tank line but get gear in the dps line. This is because shield/absorb is a joke because crit bypasses shield and dps generally can crit on some abilitites more often than not. Additionally if your in tank gear you cant kill a healer as they can EASILY out heal your dmg. So for the most part as a tank you help keep your healer alive until they get 2 dps on them, then you watch helplessly and hope you can survive without heals long enough for them to repawn and make it back before you lose the objective.

 

Now.....I dont agree with the OP, just showing his take on tanks. There are better ways to fix tanks in PvP.

[Tromador]

Yes, you can brag about it, but it is by gut feel only. Other than parsing logs and analyzing threat gen, there is no easy in game way to show it with the exception of PvP end game summary. There is nothing equivalent for the tank to screenshot big numbers as proof.

 

Tanks are like drummers in a rock band.[1]

 

The lead guitarists are jumping about doing their widdly widdly stuff all over the stage and grabbing the limelight and pretending to be all that, but really they are just all hot air and ego - like the DPS monkeys who drool over posting big numbers into the chat window.[2]

 

Meantime, it's the drummer who holds the thing together keeping the group in rhythm and controlling things from the background, they don't need the limelight, because they know they are truly critical to a successful group... Like tanks.

 

I'm not sure who the healer is in this analogy. Lead singer perhaps, being as I know many healers who like to post their massive heals into chat as well!

 

[1] This analogy is in no way connected with my fondness for tanking... and that I'm a drummer.

[2] Never done that whilst playing DPS... Ermm.. No Sir *coughs and walks away whistling off-key*

[Godlymuppet]

Also... my main is a tank and I enjoy playing him alot and its my favorite role by far.

 

BUT some nights, you just feel like raiding and not having the pressure, or your watching a movie on the sides, or you want to have a few beers while playing, then I play DPS... if I make a 3 seconds mistake as a DPS who will know? or who will even care? Some fights are so easy with DPS we just burn up the boss and I am having a discussion with someone in RL pressing one button...

 

It feels like most of the tricky mechanics end up being the tanks job, not all, but most. Healing is half way in between, IMO, but healers get more love, since you see their name in big green letters whilke they are saving your *****.

 

When the tank does well, its a good team effort, but when the tank ****s up its his fault, Im a hockey goalie in RL and it kinds of feels the same way lol.

 

This is kind of what I am getting at. If I have a tank but on raid night we have another tank or I just do t feel up to tanking on the night. In that case I need an entirely different set of gear to be a respectable Dps. To me that's a barrier that should not exist. A Dps can switch specs with the same gear, healers can do the same with only a slight decrease to Dps output, but as tank my tank gear is uess for Dps. That's unfair to need either 2 sets of gear or having to have a Dps alt, which really doesn't help as he needs gearing up which I can't do while I'm on my tank.

[Ms_Sunlight]

really? you feel proud about that? I never even felt like that once my entire tanking career in this game mate

 

Imo tanking remains a largely thankless job, but most thrilling part about is how you are always up close and personal with the "scary" bosses in a "Come at me, bro" fashion

 

Yeah this. The first time you main-tank something a little more difficult and pull it off beautifully - LR-5 or Soa or whatever is the first boss you meet that takes a little more work than your standard spank-n-tank. It's great! All you people boasting about your crits, proud of your epeens, grow some ovaries and learn to tank!

[JekRendar]

in the 25-30 talent point slots in the talent trees add the following talent

I was one of the first people to register here. I beta tested. I'm a current subscriber and CE owner. I like to think I'm knowledgeable on the game. Yet, I've never heard of these features at all in the game. Is this something new that's been added.

 

Or is the OP referring to Skills and Skill Trees?

[Calsetes]

I have a hard time understanding. Why do I need 2 sets of gear? All I do is tank and raid and I do fine with 1 set. Why do I need a dps set? That what a dps is for. I don't care how much damage I'm putting out. I'm there to control the fight and keep the attention on me.

 

I agree with you. When I play a tank, I'm looking to play a tank character - my job is to take a beating, block it with a shield, absorb it with my shield, that kind of thing. I should be a turtle with a bullseye on my shell. Healing? That's a job for the wimpy mage or doctor behind me. Doing damage? That's a job for the wimpy mage or sneaky bastard to do while I'm getting pummeled.

 

Now, I think all the "tanks need to do more damage!" stuff is coming in from PvP standpoints. I hear they're useless in a PvP match on their own. I don't PvP much, so I have no idea. My suggestion, from an outsider's point of view, though? Hop on a Vent or something, go PvPing with some friends you know, and run as a mini-party. Have a healer, have a DPS, and stroll around like the Three Musketeers - the Tank becomes the focus of the attacking player while the Healer keeps them juiced and the DPS takes out the guy attacking the tank before anyone knows what hit them. It's not ideal, but it solves the whole "we need more gear options / dual-spec / rebalancing!" issue with stuff that pretty much exists in-game already (well, aside from the Vent thing.)

 

Just my thoughts on it. I think "doubling up" on crit and surge stat boons would imbalance things horrendously, and you'd start getting Guardians rolling on obviously Sentinel-specced gear.

[Master-Nala]

I don't think it's gear at all, except maybe to the extent that this game is so gear dependent. But that's true of the other specs as well.

[Mateops]

This is kind of what I am getting at. If I have a tank but on raid night we have another tank or I just do t feel up to tanking on the night. In that case I need an entirely different set of gear to be a respectable Dps. To me that's a barrier that should not exist. A Dps can switch specs with the same gear, healers can do the same with only a slight decrease to Dps output, but as tank my tank gear is uess for Dps. That's unfair to need either 2 sets of gear or having to have a Dps alt, which really doesn't help as he needs gearing up which I can't do while I'm on my tank.

 

I understand what you mean now. I have other 50s so I dont DPS on my juggernaut, but it would be nice if it was on par with other classes like you say.

[Lostpenguins]

There's nothing to blame moreso than the fact that most people like to dps over tanking and healing. Seeing "big numbers", having the least accountability, and the easiest role in a raid makes dps the most attractive thing for people to roll when picking a character.

 

You can blame it on gear, etc... but it just boils to more people like to pew-pew over anything else. That and the fact that you need only 2 tanks in 8mans, and really just 2 tanks in 16mans means that guilds don't need a surplus of tanks. Guilds typically have a surplus of dps, but not tanks.

 

It's the nature of things. In every single MMO I've played in there's always been posts about shortage of tanks. If you really want to fix it, get rid of stupid defensive stats on gear and just make every dps class have the ability to tank by clicking a button that increases threat generation by a 200% and reduce damage output by 25%. And make sure every dps has the ability to mitigate the same amount of damage in their dps gear and this would solve the tank problem... this is probably the only way to ever solve the tank problem.

[Lagboot]

It is not gear. It is you. LTP. A tank only needs on set of gear and what is already in game is fine. Not one tank in my giuld has an agro or taunt issue. Nor has any tank ive played with so far. Other than me or another dps doing uber damage which is normal on trash. Bosses i have not had much of an issue since i use my aggro dumps properly and watch my dps at certain points in fights. Edited December 7, 2012 by Lagboot

[GuillimanT]

It is not gear. It is you. LTP. A tank only needs on set of gear and what is already in game is fine. Not one tank in my giuld has an agro or taunt issue. Nor has any tank ive played with so far. Other than me or another dps doing uber damage which is normal on trash. Bosses i have not had much of an issue since i use my aggro dumps properly and watch my dps at certain points in fights.

 

Some tanks play outside of raids and flashpoints!

[Tsillah]

I don't think gear is at the root of this issue. You don't need double gear as long as you have a decent team that doesn't screw up all the time.

 

The problem is more in the fact that tanking, as usual, is a thankless job and it's a lot trickier than say ranged DPS.

 

What I usually see (and yes I have 2 level 50 tanks, 2 level 50 dps and a level 50 healer), is that the problem is the DPS.

 

Now it's not always the fault of the DPS'ers, but when for example you have a DPS in top gear and as a tank you are geared one step below, good luck holding aggro against him. Especially melee DPS can do a lot of damage and take aggro. The taunts themselves only make the target attack you but as far as I can tell don't actually add threat and taunts have a cd that makes it tricky also. Then there is the issue of needing a certain amount of dps to build threat, without having enough high threat skills. And then the knock back situation. You get knocked back, you lose threat. Have to start over again.

 

All these mechanics can be fine if you have a team that knows what they're doing. That means the DPS need to understand the tank job. They should know that when a tank gets knocked back aggro is lost for example and that tanks may need a few seconds to build up threat.

 

Reality is that most DPS don't pay attention to this. So you could say well just stay in your guild and play only with them etc, but guildies are no guarantee for brilliance.

 

All in all, it's not just the encounter but the other players in your team that can really make your job impossible. In FP's I don't even care anymore. I let people take aggro and have them deal with adds or mobs, because they will screw it up anyways and we usually manage. But a lot of tanks at that point get fed up. And then I havent even talked about breaking CC and all that....

 

So the problem is then that a lot of people don't like to tank. They just wanna Pew Pew or feel invincible but a tank is hardly invincible in this game. So yes I think that the game should be easier to tank. Not because it's impossible to do it right but because so much is against it that most people automatically retire their tanks at level 50, if they even rolled one to begin with.

 

Start by making threat building easier for tanks and damage reduction more effective. Hell, even healers might like their role better. It's not that this must happen but in any Ops ( and I rarely play Ops at all these days) I do not want to tank and half the time I don't want to heal either. Why? Because also a lot of boss mechanics are specifically tricky for tanks and healers and not so much for DPS.

 

So really, why would anyone, except for a few weirdos (no disrespect ) want to tank? It's not rewarding generally and you have to to all the annoying stuff. I actually quit playing Ops because KP was meh and EC just wasnt fun for me. Some people love that stuff but it does mean that most people don't wanna play those roles and bingo: tank shortage.