Bolstered WFs are a joke.

[LoganOleary]

PvP is the doom of most MMOs I think, for whatever reason it seems to be the most difficult for Devs to get 'right' Star Wars already had a bad rep for it's PvP content months before release so I wasn't expecting much honestly. Besides the fact it seems the WFs I've been in are melee focused (strange for a Sci-Fi game I'd expect much more rdps) and the Ranged toons get eaten by lightsaber wielding pychos...I've had fun.

I play a Gunslinger, maybe I get 1 or 2 shots off before a Sith is gutting me...I'll adjust once I get used to the game I'm sure (I'm only lvl 16) or i'll save PvP for my own Jedi.

Star Wars isn't PvP based...its only an add on because they know they have to have 'some' PvP . Be nice to see a PvP focused MMO like Warhammer but this isn't it.

[Noacryt]

Simple fact. You shouldnt QQ about pvp if your are level 10 i mean honestly the only difference is the amount of powers. Plus you are level 10 go level a little bit more im only lvl 25 and i do just fine i kill lvl 40s easily.

[Purrt]

You guys are TOTALLY losing the point of this post so I will break it down to its biggest issue.

 

Whats the MAIN point of PvP and has been in EVERY MMO for ever. You PvP to get something which makes you stronger. Its just the way it is, just as a raider raids to get better gear to get stronger so he can get to the next raid a PvPer PvPs to get stronger.

 

If there is NO room for getting stronger due to a bolster system the REAL PvPers that PvP to become stronger are not going to want to PvP anymore and PvP will get turned into a casual thing raiding guilds do for fun cause their instance is locked for the week.

 

I just want to make my self clear, I LOVE the PvP in this game. It is fun and I enjoy it a lot and even though the CCs are a bit long its the least of my concern. I AM good at PvP I know this to be true cause I can 1v1 almost anyone with the same stats and I am almost always at the top of damage for my class on the boards. So I can not stress this enough it has nothing with me getting beat and being upset about it. It has to do 100% with sustainability of a system which rewards are pointless.

 

No REAL PvPer is going to enjoy a pointless reward system.

 

Also just for the record cause I can see people only reading what they want to read. I said "competitive edge" key word there being EDGE. In other words if you are not getting rewarded with PvP gear which makes a difference in stats you dont have an EDGE up on the competition which is something I enjoy (as to many PvPers). As I have already stated whats the point of PvP if you cant notice your self getting stronger the more you do it.

 

Skill is skill, you either have it or you dont and if you have it there is only so far you can progress with it to the point where everyone is just standing in front of everyone else button mashing and its just who gets their abilities off on the other guy first.

 

PvP with out growth and chance for increase is just rock paper scissors in the end.

 

This is a PvE concept applied poorly to PvP that you have brought with you from another MMO. Real PvP players want a level playing field so that skill and more importantly teamwork accomplish the objectives or roll their enemies in open world. I would be happy if with PvP exp you can buy "bragging rights" gear that shows you are good but doesnt give you any advantage.

[Biam]

Simple fact. You shouldnt QQ about pvp if your are level 10 i mean honestly the only difference is the amount of powers. Plus you are level 10 go level a little bit more im only lvl 25 and i do just fine i kill lvl 40s easily.

 

Again your avoiding the point I know you need to lvl past 10 in this system to improve your chance but you still get paired with the lower lvls regardless and it does make your team uncompetitive. The ability to dps with the higher lvls does not make it a fair match up and if you think it does you have a lot to learn about pvp.

[drealmer]

My main problem with bolstering is I have no way to actually gauge my skill vs. another player. It doesn't matter if they are higher or lower than I am, with bolstering I have no accurate representation of the fight between our two characters. As a level 35 I fight a lvl 38, and I win by several hundred HPs, was this because I had more skill or was the bolstering system just enough to add to my skill and gear to allow me to win? Now I'm 35 and facing a lvl 41, what did I learn from my previous encounter that will make it more likely that I will fair ok against the 41? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Not only is this system useless to me, it is ANTI-USEFUL, it works against my learning my character and skills and the gameplay and improving, it's a false sense of what is actually happening and so I can not judge how to play.

 

OPEN WORLD PvP is the only way to go, always, forever.

[qaesyan]

+1 for brackets here.

 

Bolster is fine in CONJUNCTION with large brackets. Bolster alone with every single level in the same warzone is just preposterous.

 

Talents actually mean something. They make your abilities better, and sometimes make them do entirely new and awesome things. Some talents are even entire abilities unto themselves. A level 10 player has 1 talent point. A level 30 has 21...

 

Gear actually means something. Getting bolstered HP is fine and dandy, but if you think that some level 40 player's gear isn't making his stats, such as defense, crit, etc., better than your level 10 gear is making you, you're naive.

 

Abilities actually mean something. The higher you level up the more access to powers/abilities you have.

 

It's not all about having extra HP and ranked up abilities (what abilities you have unlocked anyway...). I really hope that they eventually put in brackets, as well as allowing for cross server queueing for warzones. Even WoW realized that brackets made the PvP more fun, and even went so far as to reduce the level ranges from 10 to 5 in their battlegrounds. I'd settle for having brackets with a range of 10 levels as opposed to this everyone-in-the-same-warzone B.S. that we have now.

[CommandoPower]

I've gone in multiple times in various classes in PVP with no issues. I would caution you not to pvp until at least 12 or 14. You gain your utility skills and a significant amount of class/spec defining/refining skills in that range.

 

However even at level 10 I have manage to do well on every class so far Republic side. Bolster works very well except vs 50's that begin to get geared, and they are going to make another tier for them.

 

Vanguards: even before they get their tanking skills vanguards can still put out respectable amounts of damage. I claimed top of the pack damage and kills a fair amount of times on vanguard and am always a threat. Furthermore once I hit 15-16 I make healers retardedly hard to kill with guard and taunt. (I mean like game breakingly hard where the healer heals self, stays alive, and kills the 2-3 people attacking them)

 

Commandos:Your kidding me right? You put out significant amounts of damage and your capable of healing well. Your additional healing and damage skills you need to feel very effective come before level 15.

 

Scoundrel:So ya, no complaints at all. Whether I wisely use cover, play HAI THERE with my shotgun, spread around the vital shot love, or sit back and heal while tossing some damage my scoundrel feels amazingly effective even at the lowest levels. I've been top of damage/kills quite a few times on this one and contributed a reasonable amount of healing as well.

 

Gunslinger: No direct experience yet but if I can excel at scoundrel using cover and shooting on the run I know I can excel here. Specifically because my current scoundrel build has become focused around DOT's, most of which is in the shared spec tree dirty fighting.

 

Consular: Your joking right? The disruption, area control, healing, CC, damage, bubbles, tanking, etc this base class is capable of nearly out of the box PVP level wise? These and Sith Inquisitors are freekin ridiculously good at PVP. You have everything you need to hold your own or outright win a 1 on 1 fight and your ridiculously good team and tactical support.

 

Jedi Knight: The bane of huttball players and effective in every single PVP environment. Your a force leaping, CCing, force pulling, tough lightsaber wielding butt head who's biggest worries are having a crappy team and getting sloppy and losing melee range.

[ataborik]

Just few points to OP.

 

1) I think we should have few level brackets (for example: 10 to 30 and 30 to 49 and 50)

2) Bolster system is great because it reduce importance of equipment in PvP and its great.

 

Just look at GW - everybody there have same equipment and the game was incredibly fun and have very good PvP. If the equipment is the most important thing to have in PvP, than you kill any skill of every single player.

Edited December 21, 2011 by ataborik

[Shammus]

Oh for the love of God I hope you guys are planing on removing the WF bolster and adding brackets cause as it is now its a total joke. I am not sure if SWTOR was just lazy and didnt want to worry about PvP balance or they think bolster is just a good idea but both are wrong.

 

I am telling you guys RIGHT NOW... no one will be playing this game for the PvP if it stays bolstered none brackets as it is now.

 

I can think of only 2 reasons a bolstered PvP system would work.

1. It allows friends/guildies of ALL level to join a WF together.

 

2. You are lazy and dont want to have to worry about dealing with the balance issues that would arise from a bracket none bolstered system.

 

Now the reasons it is bad.

1. Difference in skills, when you got a bunch of low 20s/teens vs high 20s/30s the team with the higher levels, more amount of stuns/CC and just generally more skills WILL win.

 

2. A guild group of a few 40s can join a BG that have TONS more time PvPing together and wipe the floor with the other team and any new people that are in that BG will be turned off from WFs for ever like that. Granted that can happen in any game/PvP system but your not going to find some 40s beating up on 20s and teens in other MMO BGs.

 

3. Makes the worth of gear pointless. How many people do you know say (oh yeah that will be great for PvP) well now forget about it. A bolstered system means someone in crappy greens is at par with someone that has epics.

 

4. "Getting murdered in my bracket at level 19, oh well I will level up get some better gear and at 28/29 I will join that bracket and see if its better." Well not with a bolstered non-bracket system you wont, if one side is winning the BGs all the time and your getting murdered it will stay that way till...

 

5. PEOPLE DONT LIKE A NON-BRACKET BOLSTERED WF SYSTEM. AND THEY WILL LEAVE!!!

 

 

 

In beta I didn't think it was actually that bad, considering you could start getting expertise gear early on..

 

Now the real problem is now alot of these people who are only pvping are now hitting 50 and getting this gear.. all we get is an expertise stim that lasts maybe 20 seconds ..

 

but they removed low level expertise pvp gear and now you get stomped left and right by these higher level playes.. <shrug> I dunno maybe its just they got more organized from beta til now

[Blaeys]

yeah it's pretty bad, fun for leveling I guess but there should be a 50 bracket at least imo.

 

I wonder, does it really ignore gear? it seems to me it tries to make everyone equal, which is pretty stupid.

 

This is the best thing about it. Removing the gear factor evens the playing field and makes it about skill instead of how many hours you can spend grinding for gear. That is the problem I always had with wow. People thought gear equaled skill while all better gear usually meant was you were able to play more hours than the next guy.

 

An mmo should be fun and challenging even for those who don't want to play 20+ hours a week.

[RamataKahn]

This is the best thing about it. Removing the gear factor evens the playing field and makes it about skill instead of how many hours you can spend grinding for gear. That is the problem I always had with wow. People thought gear equaled skill while all better gear usually meant was you were able to play more hours than the next guy.

 

An mmo should be fun and challenging even for those who don't want to play 20+ hours a week.

 

Yeah, it's really fun to get rolled by pre-made teams of 50s you have zero chance against, that's worse then any gear gap any other mmo, including WoW.

[OhamSmyth]

Bolster mechanics is perfectly fine with me. Higher levels have a significant advantage but even level 10 is not completely useless which sounds about right to me. The team with higher average level usually wins yeah - but that does not bother me so much.

 

I think PvP has much more pressing issues than this tbh. Lack of UI responsiveness, dead people staying around for two more seconds, too much CC - to name a few.

[RamataKahn]

You guys are fooling yourselves, a L10 has ZERO chance against a L50, even he gets the first hit in.

[drealmer]

Think about it from the other perspective. As a level 45 fighting against a level 49 in the bolstered system, I have no clue how good I actually am vs. that player because the bolstering gives a false sense of mechanics. I can't say "oh I needed to do 1200 more damage in order to win and in order to do that I have to do this and this and wait for him to do this and then use my stun and then I do this and then I will win MAYBE, I will have to try it next time!" and I can't experiment and improve and learn or anything for my next encounter (not that it matters with how things are currently set up, but it should.)

[Rheeling]

I'm assuming they did this since the game did just launch and all. Imagine the queues if ONLY people in your bracket were compatible. It'd be ridiculous unless you were with the masses on the less than halfway mark.

[Morpurgo]

Think about it from the other perspective. As a level 45 fighting against a level 49 in the bolstered system, I have no clue how good I actually am vs. that player because the bolstering gives a false sense of mechanics. I can't say "oh I needed to do 1200 more damage in order to win and in order to do that I have to do this and this and wait for him to do this and then use my stun and then I do this and then I will win MAYBE, I will have to try it next time!" and I can't experiment and improve and learn or anything for my next encounter (not that it matters with how things are currently set up, but it should.)

 

Exactly, this bolstering system is only great for mindless simpletons who dont know how to tune your gear and builds and just want to point and shoot.

I'm gone use this game PvE only, there is absolutely no reason trying to be competitive in this kind of system.

[Deslo]

I agree with you so much... the B system is a joke.. I mean I can understand it for now because it just came out and BW has a lot on their plate... but still... they need to fix this ASAP.

[Drato]

What? Having the same stats as someone else TAKES OUT THE COMPETITION? What? No. No. No. No NO NO.

 

 

MMOs suck for any sort of competitive person versus person gameplay. Why? Because time is far more valuable than skill. Take WoW, Rift, or EvE for example. A 2 year in good gear/ship who doesn't even know how to play will beat the best pro in the entire world who only has had the character 1 hour.

 

Look at the good competitive games: Star Craft, Street Fighter, FPS (CoD or Battlefield), etc.

 

You can play those for 20 years, but if you suck you're not beating a good player who's played similar games for an hour.

 

 

 

The bolster helps this game achieve that sort of parity. Good for Bioware. Bad for you elitist loot/gear hoes.

 

This is the problem of OP, buuuut I do agree with the fact that lvl 50s need to be in their own bracket

Edited December 21, 2011 by Drato

[RamataKahn]

I'm assuming they did this since the game did just launch and all. Imagine the queues if ONLY people in your bracket were compatible. It'd be ridiculous unless you were with the masses on the less than halfway mark.

 

Considering that the server have been full all the time brackets would have worked just fine.

[Drato]

What? Having the same stats as someone else TAKES OUT THE COMPETITION? What? No. No. No. No NO NO.

 

 

MMOs suck for any sort of competitive person versus person gameplay. Why? Because time is far more valuable than skill. Take WoW, Rift, or EvE for example. A 2 year in good gear/ship who doesn't even know how to play will beat the best pro in the entire world who only has had the character 1 hour.

 

Look at the good competitive games: Star Craft, Street Fighter, FPS (CoD or Battlefield), etc.

 

You can play those for 20 years, but if you suck you're not beating a good player who's played similar games for an hour.

 

 

 

The bolster helps this game achieve that sort of parity. Good for Bioware. Bad for you elitist loot/gear hoes.

 

This is the problem of OP, buuuut I do agree with the fact that lvl 50s need to be in their own bracket

Edited December 21, 2011 by Drato

[ataborik]

Exactly, this bolstering system is only great for mindless simpletons who dont know how to tune your gear and builds and just want to point and shoot.

I'm gone use this game PvE only, there is absolutely no reason trying to be competitive in this kind of system.

 

sorry but i must disagree

 

If you know the bolster system update your stats based on stats which you have. So if you have one attribute higher it will be higher even after they bolster your stats. (correct me if I am wrong)

 

BUILDS and SKILL of player and information which you know about other classes will be very important. The best PvP game were games where you dont have big difference between equipment and you can beat enemy thanks to your skills. Not like in WoW where its all about equipment or other games where is about numbers.

 

In this games you just need to go to BG and first few pvp levels or honor points etc. (whatever) you are dying to be able to buy better equipment and play with others?

[undies]

Here is the biggest bonus to the bolstering system:

 

I get to play with my friends that are not yet my level (them 14-18) and myself being 27. It's one of the few things I don't have to stop questing and go help them, slowing my progress in the process.

 

You get rid of bolstering or make it more convoluted and then you may have to wait longer for PvP and/or not be able to play with lower level buddies. All because you just can't handle someone being better than you.

 

I'm only lvl 27 btw, and have been faced by lvl 40+ before. I LOL and keep playing, remembering to gank them when a teammate is fighting them later.

[Bdaw]

Oh for the love of God I hope you guys are planing on removing the WF bolster and adding brackets cause as it is now its a total joke. I am not sure if SWTOR was just lazy and didnt want to worry about PvP balance or they think bolster is just a good idea but both are wrong.

 

I am telling you guys RIGHT NOW... no one will be playing this game for the PvP if it stays bolstered none brackets as it is now.

 

I can think of only 2 reasons a bolstered PvP system would work.

1. It allows friends/guildies of ALL level to join a WF together.

 

2. You are lazy and dont want to have to worry about dealing with the balance issues that would arise from a bracket none bolstered system.

 

Now the reasons it is bad.

1. Difference in skills, when you got a bunch of low 20s/teens vs high 20s/30s the team with the higher levels, more amount of stuns/CC and just generally more skills WILL win.

 

2. A guild group of a few 40s can join a BG that have TONS more time PvPing together and wipe the floor with the other team and any new people that are in that BG will be turned off from WFs for ever like that. Granted that can happen in any game/PvP system but your not going to find some 40s beating up on 20s and teens in other MMO BGs.

 

3. Makes the worth of gear pointless. How many people do you know say (oh yeah that will be great for PvP) well now forget about it. A bolstered system means someone in crappy greens is at par with someone that has epics.

 

4. "Getting murdered in my bracket at level 19, oh well I will level up get some better gear and at 28/29 I will join that bracket and see if its better." Well not with a bolstered non-bracket system you wont, if one side is winning the BGs all the time and your getting murdered it will stay that way till...

 

5. PEOPLE DONT LIKE A NON-BRACKET BOLSTERED WF SYSTEM. AND THEY WILL LEAVE!!!

 

I'm not gonna read through but in case no one has said this yet...are you stupid? They have to have it this way now or those people at the front of the pack leveling wise will be stuck in queues until not only enough people reach their level bracket, but enough of those people decide they want to pvp too. As soon as they get a big enough player base at 50 to start having their own queues I'm sure they'll add in brackets. That being said, if WZ's don't change up their epic lag ways non of this is going to matter anyways because no one will be playing them.

[Morani]

I think you underestimate the queue times that people would have to endure at this stage in a bracket system. At the very least the bolster system keeps people from standing around and waiting for a queue pop. Would you seriously opt for this alternative? I don't think so.

 

And remember you may be on a highly populated server, but re-rolls like myself are not. I can't imagine how terrible the WZ queues would be on my current server without the bolster system.

[iFoo]

These forums are just full of the same ****. Scrubs moaning about WF's who refuse/are too stupid to see the bigger picture or looking for a excuse for their own failures instead of finding a viable work around/reaction.

 

Not even worth visiting here any more. If I want to see/hear about ******* I'd go watch Jeremy Kyle.