Healing In Warzones (Issues with Kills/Commendations)

[Birdflew]

Honestly BW intended you to not only heal, but also DPS. I make 200k healing while also doing plenty of damage. So if you're not bad then you'll do fine. If all you do is heal then you're not doing enough for your team. This isn't WoW, you can't play it like you did in WoW.

 

This is what I'm talking about.

[Tooslick]

If they gave more commendations for just pure heals it would be too easily exploited. There are already ways in the game to do this as I saw a healer spamming heals on himself when running into the liquid and fire areas in huttball. I'm not even specced to heal but could probably out-heal anyone in the game by doing so. Healing numbers are easy to pad in such circumstances.

 

I believe healers are expected to do much more than just heal. Like somone said already, healers are more of support and thus must play with the mind set of supporting team objectives which may require some out of the box thinking other than spamming heals all over the place.

[Wildcat]

Healers never get as many kills as everyone else. It's the nature of the beast. And it's also why not many of us are truly good at it, it takes that mentality. The healer may not get the gaudy kill numbers, etc, but they are the difference between defeat and victory.

[Holydisco]

I hear a lot of talk in here about how healers should focus on multitasking and doing damage when appropriate which creates a high level of stress and accountability on an already stresfull role to play. That being said for all of those nay sayers where is the accountability for DPS classes to alternate into healing?

 

Of course making a request like that would be completely ludicrous, as is requesting healers to do much outside the bounds of what they were designed to do.

[Xfraze]

I play a vanguard. I usually follow around a DPS class or a healer. By far, the best healers I have played with, the ones who have been most helpful to accomplishing objectives for the WZ and the ones who have gotten the most medals are the ones who truly understand the way healing works in this game.

 

Unlike other games where a healer just stands in the back and heals a someone who is wailing on someone else, the healer in this game is most effective when using other abilities in conjunction with heals.

 

There have been many fights where no matter how much I was healed, I would lose...but if that healer used force knockback or one of their stuns, or even just added a tiny bit to the damage being done, we''d walk away and be virtually unstoppable.

 

Healers in SWTOR are support classes. They are expected to use all their abilities to keep people alive.

 

You can say this adds another level of "stress" to being a healer, but honestly, all the healing classes were designed this way, and pvp was balanced this way. Personally, barring a few issues, I really like the way they''ve designed the pvp. It forces people to be more active, to have to make better decisions as the fights can last a while assuming you don''t have 5 people single targeting you. And if that happens, why isn''t your healer running in and pushing them all away so you can stun them and try to regroup?

 

You can also say that in comparison to DPS, it''s unfair to expect the healer to fill out so many roles. People play healers because they don''t want to DPS, they want to "support" their team. Well, using your stuns and damaging abilities is a way to support. There are no two shots in this game, most people can last long enough at 1/2 to 1/3 health for a well timed Dirty kick or some other CC to make a huge difference in the battle.

 

DPS also suffer from stress, but not the same kind as a healer. Most of it is questions in regards to our survival. We don''t have a way to heal ourselves other than POTs, which means that in order to be as effective as we possibly be, we have to rely on the support watching our backs to be as effective as they can be.

 

Since I play a vanguard, I spend most of my time mitigating damage and doing my best to direct attention to me. Using CC to block attacks sot he healers can heal and other things.

It''s really frustrating when I use a CC to stop someone from killing a healer, and then the healer just heals themselves up and proceeds to try and heal me through the next massive wave of damage when what they should do is use their CC to prevent people from attacking me and then heal me up.

 

Gah, my point kinda got lost somewhere in there.

 

TLDR

Healers are not designed to just sit in the back and spam heals, they are designed to use their damaging and CC abilities to assist with controlling the fight. Play the way the game is designed, not the way you expect it to be, and you won''t have a problem.

[HeavenlyBluE]

So that's how you get tons of metals.. from now on I will waste my energy throwing a grenade every cooldown, thus performing worse and getting greater rewards, thanks for info.

 

There have been many fights where no matter how much I was healed, I would lose...

That just means you're terrible. And I have seen many players like you. In one huttball game, I spam healed our ball carrier for at least 80k until he eventually died from holding the ball too long - despite his repeated attempts to die by LoSing out out-ranging me I managed to prevail.

 

but if that healer used force knockback or one of their stuns, or even just added a tiny bit to the damage being done, we''d walk away and be virtually unstoppable.

Normally if a healer is close enough to the fight to use the AoE knockback, her positioning is poor. The healer should never be exposed in the middle of the battle.

 

You can say this adds another level of "stress" to being a healer, but honestly, all the healing classes were designed this way, and pvp was balanced this way.

Your misinformed opinion, and when you eventually see some high level PvP you will understand why. If a healer gets out of position against competent opposition, he can be completely shut down.

 

Of course there are situations where it's safe and the correct move for the healer to come out and do this or that, and the healer frequently needs to CC, but you seem to be under the impression that the healer should run into a fray of 5 melee on an open field.

Edited December 23, 2011 by HeavenlyBluE

[Rambuster]

Healers in SWTOR are support classes. They are expected to use all their abilities to keep people alive.

 

That's like asking a bum to not be a bum, but to be a bum with a house.

 

So with that being said, can i expect dps spec'd merc BH's and Operative IA's to use there heals as well. And for all other classes that don't have healing abilities to use stims and medpacks. Since us healing spec'd players have to use our damage abilitys to fill our role and get equal commendations as you, I think its only fair.

 

Would you ask a healer in a flashpoint or an operation to do damage so you can get the boss down that much faster? No you wouldn't cause what is there role? HEALING! Not heal if the group is in trouble and dps when no-one is taking damage, but just heal. end of story.

 

If BW didn't want healers to just heal in WZ then they wouldnt of made a healing tree for anyone.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Rambuster

[Rheeling]

Reading through almost every post in this thread, here's what I have to offer, and why I think I'm an extremely effective "healer" in every warzone I participate in.

 

A) Healing is my priority. If I run to a battle, the first thing I do is look at my ally's health. If someone actually needs healing (60ish% or less), I'll heal them.

 

B) I don't over-heal. Keeping someone at 100% sounds nice, but you're wasting force and prolonging battles if you do that, which can be very costly. Once they're at or above 75%, help them burn the target(s). Interrupt casts, stun them, dot them, do whatever you can to make their life difficult.

 

C) I don't go into the warzone trying to prove my healing skills are more 133T than anyone else's. If I notice that we already have a dedicated healer who's keeping people at responsible levels, I won't hesitate to go full dps. Yes, I'm full heal specced but my stacked willpower does just as good at throwing rocks as it does with healing.

 

Playing this way, in a "bad" round I will receive a minimum of 4 medals. I can very consistently pull off 165k+ healing and 35k dps, all without dying more than 2 times. Do I get out-healed sometimes, even when I'm mostly healing? Yes. But every time I do, the amount they over-healed me is less than the amount I over-dps'ed them. A healer in SWTOR is, in fact, a hybrid if played effectively.

[romona]

That's like asking a bum to not be a bum, but to be a bum with a house.

 

So with that being said, can i expect dps spec'd merc BH's and Operative IA's to use there heals as well. And for all other classes that don't have healing abilities to use stims and medpacks. Since us healing spec'd players have to use our damage abilitys to fill our role and get equal commendations as you, I think its only fair.

 

Would you ask a healer in a flashpoint or an operation to do damage so you can get the boss down that much faster? No you wouldn't cause what is there role? HEALING! Not heal if the group is in trouble and dps when no-one is taking damage, but just heal. end of story.

 

If BW didn't want healers to just heal in WZ then they wouldnt of made a healing tree for anyone.

 

That is mandatory lol. if you have the force or energy to spare and your partner needs a heal . ofcourse you hand them a quick heal lol.

[ActualFantasy]

That's like asking a bum to not be a bum, but to be a bum with a house.

 

So with that being said, can i expect dps spec'd merc BH's and Operative IA's to use there heals as well. And for all other classes that don't have healing abilities to use stims and medpacks. Since us healing spec'd players have to use our damage abilitys to fill our role and get equal commendations as you, I think its only fair.

 

Would you ask a healer in a flashpoint or an operation to do damage so you can get the boss down that much faster? No you wouldn't cause what is there role? HEALING! Not heal if the group is in trouble and dps when no-one is taking damage, but just heal. end of story.

 

If BW didn't want healers to just heal in WZ then they wouldnt of made a healing tree for anyone.

 

Your view of gaming is so very wrong....

 

That way of thinking is what i hated most about wow. You think in your own little box, and every players has to fit in that box. Its the downfall of the community that happened when people began thinking like that.

 

As a Commando specced in a all trees (we call that a hybrid) i have been doing very well in warzones and flashpoints. The thing you forget is that its a support class. NOT a heal class only.

 

I can do over 100K healing and also 100K damage in the same battle. I can get 10K efence points while we are at it. I would say that is a great performance, but you probably think i was wasting my time. If no one gets hurt in a Flashpoint you want me to stand idle and wait till someone needs healing right ?

 

I just wish you would change your mind and start thinking outside of the boxes that became appearent when classes were introduced.

[HeavenlyBluE]

Reading through almost every post in this thread, here's what I have to offer, and why I think I'm an extremely effective "healer" in every warzone I participate in.

 

A) Healing is my priority. If I run to a battle, the first thing I do is look at my ally's health. If someone actually needs healing (60ish% or less), I'll heal them.

 

B) I don't over-heal. Keeping someone at 100% sounds nice, but you're wasting force and prolonging battles if you do that, which can be very costly. Once they're at or above 75%, help them burn the target(s). Interrupt casts, stun them, dot them, do whatever you can to make their life difficult.

 

C) I don't go into the warzone trying to prove my healing skills are more 133T than anyone else's. If I notice that we already have a dedicated healer who's keeping people at responsible levels, I won't hesitate to go full dps. Yes, I'm full heal specced but my stacked willpower does just as good at throwing rocks as it does with healing.

 

Playing this way, in a "bad" round I will receive a minimum of 4 medals. I can very consistently pull off 165k+ healing and 35k dps, all without dying more than 2 times. Do I get out-healed sometimes, even when I'm mostly healing? Yes. But every time I do, the amount they over-healed me is less than the amount I over-dps'ed them. A healer in SWTOR is, in fact, a hybrid if played effectively.

First of all, your resource pool is force, so it's viable for you to play this way.. You can spam damage and still have enough force left to spam some heals when things go badly. It isn't reasonable for an agent to use energy on damage because if things turn badly in a hurry we won't have any way to recover. This is not a complaint, simply a difference to be noted. Our healing potential over the short-term and long-term is greater than a sorc's; over the medium-term is where they find their niche

 

Second of all, if you wait till someone is at 60% to heal them against competent opposition, they're going to be dead before you start casting a heal. You'll be CC'd then your ally killed. I'm sure you've already seen this happen and rationalized the death as something other than your fault.

 

Finally, medals are in no way an indication of skill or contribution (this is the problem and chief complaint in this thread). Like I said in my previous post, if I wanted to get 5+ medals every round, all I'd have to do is spam grenade in addition to my healing.. essentially wasting a ton of energy probably cutting my healing done in half.

Edited December 23, 2011 by HeavenlyBluE

[Indica]

Unlike other games where a healer just stands in the back and heals a someone who is wailing on someone else, the healer in this game is most effective when using other abilities in conjunction with heals.

 

And that is why I love my Smuggler. I don't just sit there spamming one heal after another.

I tend to run in, use a flash bang, give you one in the back with my shotgun, one on the head and a kick in the balls.

Then I'll check who needs a heal, give them one or a slow release medpack and go back into action.

 

Most of the time I end up with four medals (lvl23).

Edited December 23, 2011 by Indica

[Rheeling]

First of all, your resource pool is force, so it's viable for you to play this way.. You can spam damage and still have enough force left to spam some heals when things go badly. It isn't reasonable for an agent to use energy on damage because if things turn badly in a hurry we won't have any way to recover. This is not a complaint, simply a difference to be noted. Our healing potential over the short-term and long-term is greater than a sorc's; over the medium-term is where they find their niche

 

Second of all, if you wait till someone is at 60% to heal them against competent opposition, they're going to be dead before you start casting a heal. You'll be CC'd then your ally killed. I'm sure you've already seen this happen and rationalized the death as something other than your fault.

 

Finally, medals are in no way an indication of skill or contribution (this is the problem and chief complaint in this thread). Like I said in my previous post, if I wanted to get 5+ medals every round, all I'd have to do is spam grenade in addition to my healing.. essentially wasting a ton of energy probably cutting my healing done in half.

 

I totally understand the things you brought up. I haven't played anything other than the Sage I use to heal, and a Vanguard I got to level 15. So I don't know how efficient the energy use is for Smugglers and such. I figured they probably have energy use reductions to spec into, which is what I've done as much as possible. Once I fill out my healing tree, I can also add an additional 100 or 200 force in another tree, I can't remember which.

 

Actually, the people I'm healing rarely die with the amount of time I wait. Usually because if someone is getting focused fired by more than 2 people, I won't bother to heal them because I can't outheal that and I'll just attract the attention to myself and get killed too. If I know it's going to be difficult to heal someone, I'll CC one of the opponents before I start healing. Yes, occasionally people die this way, but I can only remember one or two instances of that happening. Part of why I can do that is my spec. If I use a certain heal, I can make my next big heal have its cast time reduced to 1.4 seconds. So I keep that up as much as possible.

 

And I know that medals are no indication of skill or anything in warzones, trust me. I just added that in because so many people were concerned with only getting 2 medals or so in warzones as healers. All I was saying was that the strategy I use for healing personally allows me to contribute more than just heals, spend less time running back to the battle, and I happen to get good amounts of medals in the process.

 

Sorry if I came off as elitist or anything of that sort. I'm just trying to expand some people's horizons on healing if they're willing to try something new. Sages allow me to play this way. Maybe that means Smugglers are flat out better healers, but Sages are more versatile. I'm not sure as of yet We'll have to wait until there's a lot of level 50 pvp.

[MosinN]

By dpsing, you get 4 medals.

10 kills, 25 kills, solo kill, last hit.

 

If you want to win anything above 6 medals, you have to do more than what your class is definded to do regardless of what class you are. Above all, you should be winning at least 10 kill medals by CCing, or 25 kills too if you are on the winning side. Killcount isn't awarded by landing the last hit, but any kind of contribution is counted towards it as long as the targetted opponent dies. So, please use your full arsenal next time.

 

Personally the 'better' huttballer often ends up with less medals. They wait in the right spot passing the ball around instead of chasing down and dpsing the enemies mindlessly. However, if medal is what you are seeking for, there are good ways to earn them even as a healer.

[Spakka]

By DPSing as an operative I get at least 6-7 medals every single warzone, 9 in a good one.

 

My shadow friend gets 10-11 EVERY SINGLE warzone - including the 2.5k heal as he uses a medpack which, yes, counts towards this medal. DPS medals + tanking medals + 1 healing medal = win.

 

There is an additional medal for 300k healing done.

 

 

 

Medpacks really shouldn't count towards the 2.5k heal medal.

 

 

My friend who heals will get up to 4 for pure healing - 2.5k heal, 5k heal, 75k healing, 300k healing. It is WAY easier for dps to get more medals though.

[Shattered_Sun]

Medpacks really shouldn't count towards the 2.5k heal medal.

 

Why not? Sounds like a double win to me.

[Casyophaya]

i play in a professional pvp team,

my dd mates easily do 10 medals,

i heal like 370k but just come out with 5...

 

this is ridicilous

[Nylyan]

I rarely see dps with 6 commendations.

Rarely see any kind of player with 6 commendations.

 

But when I do, I know it most likely was a very good player.

 

Sry, but it had to be said.

 

I come out with 9 medals every game, mostly.

Does this mean I'm a good player? Durrr.

[StealthLightning]

Healing in Warzones:

 

I have recently been messing around with talents and different specs in warzones and noticed that healers don't get sufficient kills during a Warzone. I wouldn't really care at all but when I get 100 less commendations at the end of every warzone because I don't receive the 10/25 kill medals it gets frustrating and honestly makes me want to go back to DPS. If you want people to keep healing don't penalize them for doing so, give healers "kills" for doing their job as well or we will all go back to DPS!

 

Please Keep this thread decent as I really want this to get adressed. -Thanks

 

You think thats bad? try playing a stealthy character. If I play my character correctly(stealing enemy objectives, scouting for my team) and only fighting when necessary, I getting 2-3 medals for it.

Edited December 24, 2011 by StealthLightning

[JediDuckling]

NP< to finish first with 7+ medals with my Inq. Sorcerrer (full heal spec)

 

First, you got medals for healt given, and also to do the kills is not a big problem...

 

Play more, skill up

 

sorcerer imperials are OP why they get 2x the damage republic gets its beyond me buts its stupid and unbalanced.

 

yes i get 200k healing per match there abouts and i only get like 50 comidation and sod all exp and credits because im a healer.

 

there is far to many problems with pvp and its putting players off

[Ludanyke]

sorcerer imperials are OP why they get 2x the damage republic gets its beyond me buts its stupid and unbalanced.

 

yes i get 200k healing per match there abouts and i only get like 50 comidation and sod all exp and credits because im a healer.

 

there is far to many problems with pvp and its putting players off

 

You're awesome! What server do you play on? Lol

[Vorhard]

As it is right now, I've come to the conclusion that healing is only useful in a premade. Most players don't appreciate our job and anyways, in pug warzones, people just want to make max medals not even caring for the warzone itself.

 

By healing the dpsers and tank in the premade, they usually get the most dmg/kills meaning they get the most rewards, meaning I can get all their MVPs. Also by only healing 2-3 people I have enough time to spam dots to everyone sometimes even getting the 25kill badge and still having a solid 200k heal ammount.

 

Of course, a lot of people dies that I could've saved, but there are no incentives to actually heal more.

[Therealchaz]

I play a heal spec Sorc and always get extra medals. I think the medal system is great, people complain that a healer doesn't have the same oppurtunity to get medals. I think it is quite balanced;

 

You should get killing blow and 10 kills by simply playing the game (you will notice someone hiding somewhere nearly dead and you blast them to take them out to reduce incoming DPS) and you will be throwing around your CC's which do damage and when that person dies you get a kill. I do more than 10 CC's per game so easily get the 10 kill one and always get the KB one.

 

What I generally miss out on are 75k total damage and 2.5k single hit. It is amazing to think though that what I get to replace these is a 2.5k heal and 75k total healing.

 

That being said, I am hard pressed to get to 25 kills, but it is possible to get 75k damage and 25 kills if you play a hybrid.

 

This means DPS should easily get the following;

 

10 kills

25 kills

75 damage

1 KB

2.5 single damage

 

5 medals

 

- Can easily work on getting a solo kill if they have good burst damage

 

Healer should get the following;

 

10 kills

75k healing

1 kb

2.5k single heal

 

4 medals

 

- will really struggle to get a solo kill unless they are positioned badly and end up fighting in the middle of nowhere 1 v 1

 

Hybrid should get the following;

 

10 kills

25 kills

75 damage

75 healing

2.5 single heal

1 kb

 

6 medals

 

Hybrid is the hardest to play and probably the most useful character in a pvp situation. I think the rewards are not 100% balanced but pretty close, letting the healer recieve a "kill" when someone they have healed kills someone would fix the issue as this would add the 25 kills score to the healers "easy to get medals" which would bring them more in line with a DPS.

 

If anyone played Warhammer Online, it worked like that, you recieved the kill when someone you had healed recently killed someone.

 

Anyway, just killing time waiting for the queue

[Zeelle]

First of all, your resource pool is force, so it's viable for you to play this way.. You can spam damage and still have enough force left to spam some heals when things go badly. It isn't reasonable for an agent to use energy on damage because if things turn badly in a hurry we won't have any way to recover. This is not a complaint, simply a difference to be noted. Our healing potential over the short-term and long-term is greater than a sorc's; over the medium-term is where they find their niche

 

Second of all, if you wait till someone is at 60% to heal them against competent opposition, they're going to be dead before you start casting a heal. You'll be CC'd then your ally killed. I'm sure you've already seen this happen and rationalized the death as something other than your fault.

 

Finally, medals are in no way an indication of skill or contribution (this is the problem and chief complaint in this thread). Like I said in my previous post, if I wanted to get 5+ medals every round, all I'd have to do is spam grenade in addition to my healing.. essentially wasting a ton of energy probably cutting my healing done in half.

 

Agree.

There have been amny times as a healer I have topped heals but got only 2-3 medals, yet still knowing I kept the team alive to win. Yet, at other times I have simply defended turrets or doors etc and received just as many medals as those topping the damage or healing scoreboard. The number of medals at the end of a match does not signify who is the best player imo at all, even though I can see that BW intended it to be a better system than just going by who topped damage or heals, which equally does not necessarily signify who played best.

 

doing damage as a healer is usually fluff damage that really adds almost nothing to whether the wz is won or lost, even though it looks impressive on the chart. Been there, done that and I know quite clearly that doing a lot of damage as a healer and also getting those 'kills' has been mostly fluff so trying to argue otherwise as a number have tried to do in this thread doesn't wash. You also can end up ruining your dps's rotations by breaking their stuns and staggers etc. One can also do fluff heals, hotting up everyone and simply not actually doing what is required to keep them alive.

 

There are times, ofc, where doing some focussed dps is extremely useful, especially in smaller scale encounters. But very often, especially when pugging and I am the only healer, there simply isn't the opportunity to be doing dps that will actually make a difference when what is most needed are my heals and appropriate cc. The doing fluff damage in order to chase medals and then pretending it actually means anything other than that is what needs to be shown for what it is.

 

In addition, making sure i am looking after my position as a healer means i am often not in range of getting a defense medal and I think this is something that needs attention as often i have healed my team or a smaller group through an encounter and know that some of them have received defense medals and i have not when without my heals they would have lost. That definitely needs changing.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Zeelle

[Jarfunkz]

Healing in Warzones:

 

I have recently been messing around with talents and different specs in warzones and noticed that healers don't get sufficient kills during a Warzone. I wouldn't really care at all but when I get 100 less commendations at the end of every warzone because I don't receive the 10/25 kill medals it gets frustrating and honestly makes me want to go back to DPS. If you want people to keep healing don't penalize them for doing so, give healers "kills" for doing their job as well or we will all go back to DPS!

 

Please Keep this thread decent as I really want this to get adressed. -Thanks

 

easy fix... anyone you heal gets credit for a kill in 10 seconds from your last heal, you get credit for that kill...