NO Addons please. There is another solution!

[Zookum]

People play video games for different reasons. I am a very competitive person and so I play games to compete with other people. I play MMOs as dps to compete with other people for that coveted #1 spot on Recount.

 

There are of course bad things about some add-ons. Gearscore in WoW made it very difficult to get your foot in the door as a fresh max level character because people would demand gearscores so high that you would need gear from the raid you were trying to get in to. However this is a failure on the part of the organizer of that raid, not of the add-on itself.

 

Recount has saved me countless wipes by being able to look back and see what happened that caused us to wipe last time.

 

I also won't be doing any serious healing until I can use mouseover heals, it's just to tedious for me otherwise.

 

TLDR: Like everything else there are pros and cons to add-ons, no they are not NEEDED, but many people including myself find them very useful.

[jamisonkfox]

Why exactly do you not want addons available? If you don't like them, don't use them.

 

Why exactly do you not like SWTOR as is? If you don't like it, don't play, instead of changing it for everyone else.

 

I actually don't care, but the point is that the above statement is just as valid as the one you made. Add-ons change the game. Some people will like it, some won't. "If you don't like them, don't use them" is no more of an answer than "If you don't like it, don't play".

 

We can't pretend that things happen in a void. If there are DPS/Heal meters, etc. the game community *will* change, even for those who choose not to use them.

 

Yes, they can be useful for high end raids. Also, sadly far too much of the MMO world mainly use it as replacement for other things and need the ruler to feel adequate. You can't just have the positive of meters, without having the bad sides... thus the discussions.

[-Arcane-]

NO Addons please. There is another solution!

 

 

yes there is, make the content so faceroll easy that it dosent matter.

[Sylriana]

Why exactly do you not like SWTOR as is? If you don't like it, don't play, instead of changing it for everyone else.

 

I actually don't care, but the point is that the above statement is just as valid as the one you made. Add-ons change the game. Some people will like it, some won't. "If you don't like them, don't use them" is no more of an answer than "If you don't like it, don't play".

 

We can't pretend that things happen in a void. If there are DPS/Heal meters, etc. the game community *will* change, even for those who choose not to use them.

 

Yes, they can be useful for high end raids. Also, sadly far too much of the MMO world mainly use it as replacement for other things and need the ruler to feel adequate. You can't just have the positive of meters, without having the bad sides... thus the discussions.

 

 

 

Except it's not changing it for everyone else. It's changing it for people who want to customize their UI and leaving it the same for people who don't.

 

Kind of like how I don't like raiding on my Sentinel, so I avoid PvE Operations on her. Were I more like the OP and friends though, I'd be on the forums asking Bioware to never make another raid again, because people who like different things than I do don't deserve to be able to play the game the way they want to... Which is just a stupid and extremely vindictive way to look at things.

 

 

Bringing up the "bad" of meters would be a valid point... if it weren't already clear that the people who are dumb can manage to be perfectly dumb without tools assisting them.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Sylriana

[Leohat]

Why exactly do you not want addons available? If you don't like them, don't use them.

 

Two words.

Gear Score.

[Cynistra]

Two words.

Gear Score.

 

Then remove the "inspect" tool as it is currently used in the same way.

/fail.

[rhyona]

I honestly don't understand why people are so upset with addons. I used to be the main tank for Vodka during Burning Crusade and addons did not make the game any easier for us. We never made any requirement that forced people to get addons. To be honest, the only addons that people mainly used were Omen, Grid and a dps meter.

 

Did these addons help? Of course they did but they did not make the game any easier and I would say it had the opposite affect. What do I mean by that? Well, believe it or not they actually made us play better. How? It's quite simple really, Omen was a addon for threat and therefore people could see how much threat they were doing. This was a great addon because it actually improved a lot of people like myself. How? I was now able to see my own threat and to see just how much threat I was doing. I was then able to figure out how much threat my spells were doing. Therefore, I was able to change my tanking rotation so I could do more threat. It then led on to people doing a lot more dps on bosses.

 

The following addon was a dps meter that we used and I can't say enough how useful this addon was. The dps meter did not make the game any easier in my opinion. The addon only made people play better because they were now able to see their dps. How did it make people play better? The dps in Vodka were now able to see their own dps and their dps rotation. They could now work on figuring out the best rotation for the most dps because of the extra information that the dps meter had. And the dps did just that and were able to improve their dps greatly. Its amazing how a simple addon like a dps meter can actually improve ones skill and dps.

 

Those are just two examples of how addons can make players in general better at the game. I understand that not everyone has the mind set of using an addon to help improve their skill as a player. I guess my point is that not all addons make the game easier. There are a lot of addons that can actually help and make a player better than they were. I also know that there are addons out there that do make the game easier for the general player. And I agree that it's not a good thing because it only makes people play worse.

 

Anyway, I understand why there are a lot of people against addons because of how they can make the game easier. However, there are a lot of addons that do a lot of good and can help players improve their skill. Please keep that in mind and that not all addons are bad. Please give me your thoughts about this idea I had if addons are finally allowed. The idea I had is that we should have some sort of review process for new addons. What I mean is this,

 

Bioware should create a new department that only deals with addons. That means for every new addon that is made by someone, they would have to submit their addon to the new addon department. That way Bioware can test each new addon and to make sure it doesn't make the game any easier by having the player play less skillful by not doing something they normally would have to do. Also, there should be a new forum section where players of swtor can review an addon that someone makes. That way we can get input from the community about how they feel about someones new addons. I think it would be great to have a forum section where people can share idea's and review addons.

 

I think that idea would work really well but I'm not sure what everyone else thinks about it. Please share your thoughts!

[Raansu]

I stopped reading at Vodka and then fell to the floor in laughter.

 

*ahem*

 

Anyways, L2P without your crutch. When people refer to add-ons forcing other to use them, they are not referring to just PvE. Add-ons can and will give an extreme advantage to PvP players, thus forcing specefic add-ons to be used for content in the game.

 

Add-ons are nothing more than a crutch, simple as that. If you want your precious add-ons then go back to WoW.

[Cynistra]

I think that idea would work really well but I'm not sure what everyone else thinks about it. Please share your thoughts!

 

I think this is a great idea. The only problem is where do you set the limit? As far as submitting to Bioware for approval, this could be avoided by having Bioware restricts in which ways users can create addons. You are absolutely right about most addons, they are fantastic TOOLS to learn to play better and on top of that, this leads to more development time on other features of the game, since the addons are there to "fill the holes" in less than optimal features. It can also lead to new features implemented directly by Bioware if they have a way to track what addons are really popular and massively used.

I don't think a GS addon has its place in any MMO, but it is a small price to pay(especially in this game), IMO, to get all those really useful and amazing addons.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Cynistra

[Cynistra]

I stopped reading at Vodka and then fell to the floor in laughter.

 

*ahem*

 

Anyways, L2P without your crutch. When people refer to add-ons forcing other to use them, they are not referring to just PvE. Add-ons can and will give an extreme advantage to PvP players, thus forcing specefic add-ons to be used for content in the game.

 

Add-ons are nothing more than a crutch, simple as that. If you want your precious add-ons then go back to WoW.

 

His idea to have the devs monitor what would make it or not in the game is a very good compromise to everyone. Before insulting someone, why not try to make your points valid instead of making empty statements? Saying addons are a crutch, simple as that, doesn't make your point any valid, that just shows you have an opinion. So what, I have an opinion too and last I checked, it is just as valid as yours. So instead you can point me where I am wrong (without insults, of course), why would I agree with you?

 

P.S. If you are really good at the game, and you have learned to play without addons (as you probably since you call him out), you won't need addons to beat all the "baddies"that use addons, right?

Edited January 29, 2012 by Cynistra

[Sylriana]

Add-ons can and will give an extreme advantage to PvP players, thus forcing specefic add-ons to be used for content in the game.

 

Arguing that the current UI is so bad that giving players access to a clean and responsive interface would give them an unfair advantage is a pretty strong argument in favor of addons, not against it.

[KaiHeilos]

Addons do nothing that we can't already do in game, they just make the information easier to see/decipher.

 

Gearscore? We can already inspect you.

DPS meters? Once we get combat logs we will be able to parse them anyway

Raiding? The game already tells you what to do, or your raid leader will.

Healing mouseovers? Macros? They just mean we need less clicks to do things, we still have to use the skills ourselves and decide when and where to use them.

 

Addons are simply for convenience. They don't magically make you a better player or play the game for you, they're just a different way to process the data the game provides you already.

[-Arcane-]

 

Add-ons are nothing more than a crutch, simple as that. If you want your precious add-ons then go back to WoW.

 

Sorry so being able to accuratley compare which Build/spec/rotation does more dps is a crutch?

 

Personally i'd prefer difficult content that you need to minmax for if you want to push fast progression, not patheticly easy content that you can faceroll with 16 half decent players regardless of spec/build/rotation.

[Atamosk]

add-on = raid timers

 

thats what ruined the game most about add=ons in wow.

 

there were programs that told you when to do things as opposed to having payed attention.

 

they just need them. If the game is playable without them then why do you need them

 

if anything wow ruined it for other games because they have to include add on custimization

 

which wouldnt be a problem except people look for exploits and then that is a huge problem.

 

i dont mind addons it just makes people who care, make other people who don't care have to do it to raid and such.

 

i just figure if there is a problem it will be addressed. instead of if you have add ons then people who dont think to go to add ons then have to go to add ons instead of just playing the game.

 

idk it wouldnt matter but i just dont see the point as someone who used as little as he could in wow.

[Yawning]

Ignoring the trolls who think that wanting to be able to remove chrome from unit frames, have a GTM interface that isn't utterly terrible, be able to tell which debuffs on a target are mine, accurately visualize debuff/buff duration and or perform meaningful postmortem analysis during encounters are a crutch....

 

Bioware should create a new department that only deals with addons. That means for every new addon that is made by someone, they would have to submit their addon to the new addon department. That way Bioware can test each new addon and to make sure it doesn't make the game any easier by having the player play less skillful by not doing something they normally would have to do.

 

There's no point to this. If there's things that an addon should not be able to do, then the developers just do not expose the functionality required to enable that in the first place or alter the hooks they provide to break said unintended functionality.

 

Having to add more staff or increase the workload on existing staff just to "audit" what would more than likely be a large number of third party contributions would negate one of the positives from their point of view.

 

My inner cynic also says that turn around time for something like this would be unacceptably long, as evidenced by people's reported interactions with the publicly accessible side of Bioware, but I understand that it would be a different department and may end up being ok.

 

There are companies that do things like this software wise, so I'm not saying it won't work, but with a reasonably well designed programmer interface, I don't see it being necessary.

 

Also, there should be a new forum section where players of swtor can review an addon that someone makes. That way we can get input from the community about how they feel about someones new addons. I think it would be great to have a forum section where people can share idea's and review addons.

 

This is a good idea. As a developer I'm overjoyed to get feedback/bug reports for products I develop.

 

I think that idea would work really well but I'm not sure what everyone else thinks about it. Please share your thoughts!

 

Sorry if it comes off as negative. I agree with the other stuff you wrote, but adding (in my opinion) unneeded complications doesn't seem like a great idea.

[Cynistra]

My point is valid, and is shown by the crying in this forums. Addons are a crutch, and you scrubs clearly cant live without them. Go back to WoW with your garbage raid timers and scrubby heal bots.

 

Ok, so addons are bad because you said so, and I need to get back to playing wow? Ok np have a g'day champ. you just opened my eyes on how terribly wrong I was all those years, oh well.

[urgod]

Ok, so addons are bad because you said so, and I need to get back to playing wow? Ok np have a g'day champ. you just opened my eyes on how terribly wrong I was all those years, oh well.

 

i bet you $5 he's one of the guy's who holds the guild back from killing bosses, and is always called out about bad healing or bad dps, and that is why he's attacking you.

[Cynistra]

i bet you $5 he's one of the guy's who holds the guild back from killing bosses, and is always called out about bad healing or bad dps, and that is why he's attacking you.

 

Well if it is the case, maybe he would benefit from addons too I like to think people are more intelligent than that.

 

My whole point is even addons that tell you how to play the game (feralbynight, for example) are useful to LEARN how to effectively play your class. After a while, you don't need them anymore, simply because such an addon cannot predict what a boss will come up with next and you might have to wait on particular buff or ability until a certain phase and whatnot.

 

It is a great tool that makes the learning curve of a particular class/role so much more manageable. I just don't want to go back to inspecting my combat log (if we even had one would be good i guess) and pin point what i could improve and how, I'm sorry, been there done that.

 

As for GS, again, people can already inspect your gear, so if you join an OP, get ready to be kicked.

[Amnaroth]

id love to see the UI customisation that Rift offers built in. .... or at least the posibbility to arrange and flip my bars the way i want them.

[Vedious]

addons do not ruin the game they simply make ir more enjoyable

 

whats wrong with having an addon like recount tell you your dps? all it will do is allow you to make improvements, and come on this games UI is not very good and addons would be an easy way to change that

[Stabbitha]

How about addons such as health/heat/force/ammo bars near the middle of the screen?

 

Cooldown timers?

 

Procs added to floating combat text so that you can concentrate on the middle of the screen rather than looking at your quickslots?

 

And while I don't need DPS/healing/threat meters to play, they are useful to a raid leader to see who is pulling their weight and who isn't... If you have a problem with a player, you can at least have a chat with them based on evidence and see if you can improve their performance (or, if you like it that way, boot them and find a replacement).

 

How about damage logs/parsing mods that allow theorycrafters and min/maxers to figure out their best options for rotations etc? Just because it doesn't float some peoples boats doesn't mean there aren't people out there who really want to crunch some numbers.

 

Seriously, floating combat text started as a mod. Now it's included because we all like to see our big baddass crits popping up over a mob or a pvp victim. Quickbars used to be one bar until mods added more, and so on and so forth. They all make the game easier to play so the line that is being drawn by the OP seems to be somewhat arbitrary. Of course, as many other posters have said, the OP could just not use any mods produced if that is what floats his/her boat...

[Raansu]

i bet you $5 he's one of the guy's who holds the guild back from killing bosses, and is always called out about bad healing or bad dps, and that is why he's attacking you.

 

Hardly, but nice try.

[Tohrazer]

if you dont want them dont use them, the rest of us that take the game remotely seriously meanwhile will keep demanding them until our subs run out

[QiBao]

Two words.

Gear Score.

 

Saying you're in favor of addons does not mean you support any and all addons, including dumb ones from the past in another game.

[QiBao]

I stopped reading at Vodka and then fell to the floor in laughter.

 

*ahem*

 

Anyways, L2P without your crutch. When people refer to add-ons forcing other to use them, they are not referring to just PvE. Add-ons can and will give an extreme advantage to PvP players, thus forcing specefic add-ons to be used for content in the game.

 

Add-ons are nothing more than a crutch, simple as that. If you want your precious add-ons then go back to WoW.

 

Are you trolling? If so, you're doing a good job with the tone, sweeping (wrong) generalizations, and even a "go back to WoW." Well done, I suppose.