Afraid to put their big boy/girl pants on. Fix this please. Peter Pan isn't in SWTOR

[Evuo]

How is this any different from the full augmented, min/maxed WH geared pre-mades that come to normal WZ's to have a smash fest on newly dinged 50's in Recruit gear or worse?

 

Players of low levels don't have all their abilties/skill points. This leads to a misrepresentation of a class's capabilities at max level. Just look at Jedi Knights/Sith Warriors, they have such a limited arsenal at low levels it makes for a different experience than the later levels.

[Smashbrother]

Players of low levels don't have all their abilties/skill points. This leads to a misrepresentation of a class's capabilities at max level. Just look at Jedi Knights/Sith Warriors, they have such a limited arsenal at low levels it makes for a different experience than the later levels.

 

This is an issue regardless of whether twinks exist or not. Lower level players will always have less skills/talents than higher level players. It has nothing to do with twinks.

[Doomsdaycomes]

Ya that only mentions the gear not the transferring of mods.

 

Mods are gear.

[Blasphemerr]

I imagine more players will stay sub-50 because of the gear-grind changes in 1.6.

[Smashbrother]

Mods are gear.

 

They aren't, but let's say you're right.

 

"Players with a Legacy can now send unbound and bound-to-Legacy items to other characters on the same account via in-game mail (even if the characters are not of the same faction). "

 

Bounded mods fit in neither of the bolded parts. Bounded mods are obviously not unbound items, and there is no such thing as Bound-to-Legacy mods.

 

But really it doesn't matter either way. Unless someone can provide some proof that leaving WZs to avoid xp is a bannable offense, it's not illegal. I'm still waiting.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Smashbrother

[Doomsdaycomes]

They aren't, but let's say you're right.

 

"Players with a Legacy can now send unbound and bound-to-Legacy items to other characters on the same account via in-game mail (even if the characters are not of the same faction). "

 

Bounded mods fit in neither of the bolded parts. Bounded mods are obviously not unbound items, and there is no such thing as Bound-to-Legacy mods.

 

But really it doesn't matter either way. Unless someone can provide some proof that leaving WZs to avoid xp is a bannable offense, it's not illegal. I'm still waiting.

 

When you place a bound mod into a shell, it becomes part of that shell. If that shell is bound to legacy, then the mods themselves are considered bound to legacy. Mod, Enhancement, Crystal, etc... are all part of gear.

 

It isn't that infinite 49 wz's is bannable, but it's still an exploit. Just like 8 man's in regular, or ranked queue dodging, or any other abuse of how the system is intended.

[DarkSaberMaster]

When you place a bound mod into a shell, it becomes part of that shell. If that shell is bound to legacy, then the mods themselves are considered bound to legacy. Mod, Enhancement, Crystal, etc... are all part of gear.

 

It isn't that infinite 49 wz's is bannable, but it's still an exploit. Just like 8 man's in regular, or ranked queue dodging, or any other abuse of how the system is intended.

 

Show me a dev statement saying that not taking the xp is an exploit. That's like saying not killing the side bosses and mobs in FP's to do quick runs are exploiting because the devs put them in with the intention to slow down FP runs. Till then...........yeah. Keep crying cause it won't get changed.

[Evuo]

This is an issue regardless of whether twinks exist or not. Lower level players will always have less skills/talents than higher level players. It has nothing to do with twinks.

 

He asked how it was different from the potential gear disparity at maximum level pvp.

 

How is this any different from the full augmented, min/maxed WH geared pre-mades that come to normal WZ's to have a smash fest on newly dinged 50's in Recruit gear or worse?

 

This is a difference.

 

Players of low levels don't have all their abilties/skill points.

 

The point stands, the question was answered accordingly.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Evuo

[DarkSaberMaster]

He asked how it was different from the potential gear disparity at maximum level pvp.

 

 

 

This is a difference.

 

 

 

The point stands, the question was answered accordingly.

 

Sorry, but Smash is right. His point still trumps yours and sorry to say, you are reaching.

[Doomsdaycomes]

Show me a dev statement saying that not taking the xp is an exploit. That's like saying not killing the side bosses and mobs in FP's to do quick runs are exploiting because the devs put them in with the intention to slow down FP runs. Till then...........yeah. Keep crying cause it won't get changed.

 

-.- what do you think the purpose of this thread is? Hopefully for a dev to clarify if this is an exploit or not.

 

But, as we're all (hopefuly) full grown, logical adaults, I think we can all use those things we call "brains" and do a pretty quick check if something is an exploit.

 

How does the system work.

 

Play Warzone.

Warzone ends when X is met (time limit, objectives met, or too few players)

Players are awarded comms, valor, and exp.

 

How does leveling work.

 

Finish goal.

Exp fills bar.

When Exp hits certian amount, Level up.

 

So what you have is someone who is using a warzone, but maliciously ending it prematurely, to circumnavigate the system of completion, rewards, level. The action of leaving in itself is not an exploit, but the intention and the continued abuse of the system is.

 

As for Dev statements, please find the Dev statement -before- they changed HM Kaon Under Siege, when an -exploit- of the terrian trivialized the turret encounter. We do not need dev's to hold our hands and tell us what we can logically figure out for ourselves.

 

(In the same way, as I said before, this is the same as abusing the queue system to get an 8 man in non-ranked, or to fight your chosen opponents in ranked. When the group finder rez bug happened, it was still an exploit to use it as a rez during a boss fight. No one got banned, it was an exploit and it was fixed.

[Atramar]

It would be abuse if they gained reward but no XP to stay in 49 for evah.

 

They don't get rewards (other then being hard from killing newbs), so they are not gaining anything , ergo , it's not an exploit.

 

I love min maxed 46+ players, they are most fun to kill on me fresh toons. (well 30+, not fresh fresh ding 10th lvl fresh)

[Doomsdaycomes]

It would be abuse if they gained reward but no XP to stay in 49 for evah.

 

They don't get rewards (other then being hard from killing newbs), so they are not gaining anything , ergo , it's not an exploit.

 

I love min maxed 46+ players, they are most fun to kill on me fresh toons. (well 30+, not fresh fresh ding 10th lvl fresh)

 

Mostly what makes it an exploit is it's intention. For example, the aoe bug with companions that puts people in PvP-flagged is simply... a bug. It's when someone uses it on purpose for the intention of flagging and then killing their victim that it becomes an exploit.

 

People aren't rewarded with comms, money, or exp... but they must feel they are being rewarded in some way, or they wouldn't do it. It is the intention and the act of dodging their rewards that is the exploit.

 

I do not think it should be bannable, or that it's even much of a problem. I simply want to point out to others that whether harmful or benign, it is a form of abusing/exploiting the sytem.

[Karkais]

Well if level 50 PvP didn't suck balls we wouldn't have this problem.

 

Quoting for truth. I think the devs just went in completely wrong direction with the resolve changes. There should be less stuns, not more.

 

You mean - expertise stat? -- And I agree. It's funny - pre launch they made it sounds like the PvP was intended to be less gear centric..... Go figure. The exact opposite to the 100th degree has happened.

 

Which should have been predicted by anyone with a brain when we first found out there was going to be expertise and gear progression.

 

Ive been on a crusade against gear-dependency forever. But people will rather have this.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Karkais

[beattlebilly]

It would be abuse if they gained reward but no XP to stay in 49 for evah.

 

They don't get rewards (other then being hard from killing newbs), so they are not gaining anything , ergo , it's not an exploit.

 

I love min maxed 46+ players, they are most fun to kill on me fresh toons. (well 30+, not fresh fresh ding 10th lvl fresh)

 

Maybe not an exploit, but maybe it could be classified as "griefing" or harassment. Those players that go around on PvE servers flagged and stand inside a group of mobs to flag the opposing faction when they attack the mobs aren't getting rewards or gaining anything from what they are doing, but yet they can get in trouble for doing that, right?

 

http://www.swtor.com/legalnotices/rulesofconduct

 

Harassment consists of misuse and/or abuse of game mechanics and verbal harassment with the intention of distressing and offending other players. Game mechanics allow players to interact with the world and each other. For example, the ability to block a doorway is a game mechanic. Use of game mechanics like these is by no means considered harassment in and of itself. The key to determining whether the mechanic is being misused or abused is to determine "intent." Reported incidents are not considered harassment until it is determined by the SWTOR CS that it was done to intentionally to cause distress or to offend other players.

[beattlebilly]

I don't like the gear grind/no time to play excuse. The ones I've seen doing this, the amount of time they spent doing it, if they'd been devoting that time to 50 PvP, they'd have the comms to get their gear. One of them was even asked why they were doing it and they admitted they had a geared 50 but they were bored and wanted to kick *** without a challenge.

[Atramar]

Maybe not an exploit, but maybe it could be classified as "griefing" or harassment. Those players that go around on PvE servers flagged and stand inside a group of mobs to flag the opposing faction when they attack the mobs aren't getting rewards or gaining anything from what they are doing, but yet they can get in trouble for doing that, right?

 

http://www.swtor.com/legalnotices/rulesofconduct

 

technically it's an exploit to flag person that way, 'harrasment' would be going as L 50 to nar shadda on pvp server killing oposite fraction and stopping them from questing on hardcore style all day long (but then again, if you go for pvp server, you need to expect those d-bags are prodobly there).

level 49 is not super power wrecking ball either, so it's not game breaking. They don't stop anyone from doing anything.

Level 10-49 pvp is unbalanced and bad any way.

I still don't understand why they are doing it, I hate pre 50 pvp, it's boring and full of very terrible people (no offense, I'm not elitist, but some people are just awful like my grammar and spelling), but if it boosts their ego and nothing else (like they are not getting comms for that nor can grind WH on lowbie pvp), it's not against rules, nor hurting any one.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Atramar

[beattlebilly]

level 49 is not super power wrecking ball either, so it's not game breaking. They don't stop anyone from doing anything.

 

A team with these "twinks" on them may think they'll have an advantage, but they don't. Been in losses before with these idiots on the team because they aren't playing the objectives. Been against these idiots before and been camped at spawn/speeder areas and killed before I can even get medals. To me, that seems like they are stopping people from gaining as much as they can from a WZ. May not be "game breaking" because it's low level, but if it's happening to you and those around you, it's enough to be a problem and preventing proper game play. This shouldn't be overlooked just because it's a minor area of the game. You may not see the big deal, but to those that actually enjoy all aspects of PvP and not just "end game" PvP, it's a pain in the *** and disrupts game play.

[Atramar]

A team with these "twinks" on them may think they'll have an advantage, but they don't. Been in losses before with these idiots on the team because they aren't playing the objectives. Been against these idiots before and been camped at spawn/speeder areas and killed before I can even get medals. To me, that seems like they are stopping people from gaining as much as they can from a WZ. May not be "game breaking" because it's low level, but if it's happening to you and those around you, it's enough to be a problem and preventing proper game play. This shouldn't be overlooked just because it's a minor area of the game. You may not see the big deal, but to those that actually enjoy all aspects of PvP and not just "end game" PvP, it's a pain in the *** and disrupts game play.

 

Soo, when they are on your team you loose cause they are idiots, and when they are on other team you loose cause they kill you to the bone.

 

I'm sorry.

[Sathid]

We have a fair bit of twinks on Bastion and it's kind of annoying. I could see it being a bigger problem if any of these guys were actually good. These twinks are constantly out performed by good players leveling alts in moderate gear. But in lowbie PvP where there are very few solid players I definitely see a problem.

 

I find it annoying because not only do they gear to the gills which NO ONE is doing sub 50 other than these guys... which is just one advantage on top of having a ton more key abilities than most of the other players. But that's why they do it... they know they aren't as good as many of the other players so they find a place where they can "dominate". It boosts their internet ego. Instead of improving their game play and getting to the next level of PvP... they'd rather abuse the system and let the gear do the work while their skills remain moderate.

 

Anyways, kind of ranted but I do see the issue especially considering the level of play in lowbie PvP. Any fix is a good one. I'd say give them XP throughout the match WHILE it's going. Got a medal? Well you just got XP.

 

All my toons are on the Bation,my GS i started hitting the WZ's around lvl 25,i do just my daily and then hit some quests on the planet where my class quest is,rinse repeat so she is lvling slowly but i have to keep her gear at lvl or very good gear at lvl due to i like hit some heroics with just my comp or a friend of mine,,is she twinked? yah to a degree,but like i said i just do my daily and thats that in WZ's.

[beattlebilly]

Soo, when they are on your team you loose cause they are idiots, and when they are on other team you loose cause they kill you to the bone.

 

I'm sorry.

 

Don't always lose, no. Just said I've been in losses before because of how they acted and they aren't automatically an advantage over the other team because of the way they play. You couldn't see how it was an issue, I pointed out why they are an issue. They either cause a team to lose because they aren't playing objectives, or they'll single out lowbies on the other team to giggle-stomp preventing them from gaining as much as they can from the WZ.

[Atramar]

Don't always lose, no. Just said I've been in losses before because of how they acted and they aren't automatically an advantage over the other team because of the way they play. You couldn't see how it was an issue, I pointed out why they are an issue. They either cause a team to lose because they aren't playing objectives, or they'll single out lowbies on the other team to giggle-stomp preventing them from gaining as much as they can from the WZ.

 

They are 'joker' for their team or wieght. Like every of 8 players in that team, can be either good, best, bad or pure awful. L31 marauder can harras players on spawn, if they are bad...team of 2 stealthers can harras people in WZ too, are 2 stealthers on one team an issue?

You meet better and worse players in WZ there are 8 on each team, deal with it.

[beattlebilly]

They are 'joker' for their team or wieght. Like every of 8 players in that team, can be either good, best, bad or pure awful. L31 marauder can harras players on spawn, if they are bad...team of 2 stealthers can harras people in WZ too, are 2 stealthers on one team an issue?

You meet better and worse players in WZ there are 8 on each team, deal with it.

 

I do deal with it, I either try to avoid them, or if I'm PvP'ing with my husband we gang up on them. Just pointing out the issue with the twinks. Yes, there are bads being being bads that aren't twinks, but the twinks set out to purposely do this sort of thing, using a flawed system to keep themselves in the lowbie bracket. At least the bads let themselves level up and go be bads in lvl 50 WZ's:p Don't see them around much though, they tend to quit pretty quickly.

 

Again, just pointing out the issues and the flaws. I wouldn't say the people should be banned, but I think the system should be fixed. Either grant the rewards and experience as you get the medals and/or kills, or separate the PvP more. Or do both. Doesn't have to go every 10 lvl's, could be split into thirds I guess, since when you hit mid 30's you have a better chance against the twinks than when you are mid 20's and lower. Granted, I can still see people twinking out in each of the different brackets, but at least it wouldn't be as big of a gap in skills and abilities in each of the brackets between the low end and high end of them.

[Seena]

-.- what do you think the purpose of this thread is? Hopefully for a dev to clarify if this is an exploit or not.

 

But, as we're all (hopefuly) full grown, logical adaults, I think we can all use those things we call "brains" and do a pretty quick check if something is an exploit.

 

How does the system work.

 

Play Warzone.

Warzone ends when X is met (time limit, objectives met, or too few players)

Players are awarded comms, valor, and exp.

 

How does leveling work.

 

Finish goal.

Exp fills bar.

When Exp hits certian amount, Level up.

 

So what you have is someone who is using a warzone, but maliciously ending it prematurely, to circumnavigate the system of completion, rewards, level. The action of leaving in itself is not an exploit, but the intention and the continued abuse of the system is.

 

As for Dev statements, please find the Dev statement -before- they changed HM Kaon Under Siege, when an -exploit- of the terrian trivialized the turret encounter. We do not need dev's to hold our hands and tell us what we can logically figure out for ourselves.

 

(In the same way, as I said before, this is the same as abusing the queue system to get an 8 man in non-ranked, or to fight your chosen opponents in ranked. When the group finder rez bug happened, it was still an exploit to use it as a rez during a boss fight. No one got banned, it was an exploit and it was fixed.

 

 

Now come on... using logic --- laying it all down clearly and unequivocally - I think it won't matter to those so desperate to maintain the facade that this isn't, in fact, an exploit. (Which many are confusing with "bannable". Not all exploits are bannable - it depends on the implications of the exploit).

 

Funniest the to me - those arguing FOR this, with repeated posts, also make a disclaimer that they, themselves, don't do it. That just makes me go.. "hmmmmmmm".

[Seena]

Maybe not an exploit, but maybe it could be classified as "griefing" or harassment. Those players that go around on PvE servers flagged and stand inside a group of mobs to flag the opposing faction when they attack the mobs aren't getting rewards or gaining anything from what they are doing, but yet they can get in trouble for doing that, right?

 

http://www.swtor.com/legalnotices/rulesofconduct

 

It is both an exploit and probably a form of harassment.... I am far more certain about the first, than the second.

 

Although, there is some credence to the fact that in a sense you are griefing people by using an exploit to not gain XP as intended if it prevents the natural course of a WZ... Hm...... Interesting...

Edited November 29, 2012 by Seena

[wetslampigduex]

Sooo, twink a toon out yourself?!?! Not staying quit WZ's and not lvl, but twink your toon out and ROFLstomp the 49 twinks. From what i've encountered these twinks, for the most part, are bads. Bads that can't hack it @ lvl 50 so they stay lowbie and beat on other bads.