Time for a PvP Fix

[Nucairion]

Umm, I have no clue what you just said.

 

What you're responding to is indeed extreme- however there has been an extreme imbalance so far in the game anyway.

 

Also- nobody cares if you can hit 200k in low level pvp, or that you can pull 300k in normals.

 

Quit using hyperbole and missing the entire point of the thread- this isn't about being OP, this is about being viable enough to have a spot in dps or healing in RWZ once the stun bubble nerf goes through- right now we have no place as dps and that's unacceptable- and without stun bubble chances are we'll only have a spot as healers when a group can't find 2 good healer operatives.

 

Asking for a buff- or even a return to where we were back when we were actually balanced isn't asking to become extremely OP.

 

DPS sorcs, ops and mercs are not welcome in RWZ- that needs to change and it will not change with tiny buffs. Healing mercs and stun bubble-less sorcs are also much less welcome due to lack of mobility over a healing op. We're classes with DPS trees- we should be viable as DPS but every good team playing RWZ against other good teams isn't taking us because they know our class's DPS viability caps way lower than other classes.

 

[/quote

Well u are partially right and wad wasn't talking bout normals. But people fail to see that it's not that these classes u are referring to being under powered its the facts focus/rage assault specialist/pyrotechnic are op so u have to options nerd the damage of those specs or buff the others. The bubble needs its nerf and here's why. Specs don't rely on cos to survive. They heal the bubble they have force speed to run away and there ranged. How would u feel bout vgs or swingers self healing or sents being able to protect. All this nerd is doing is taking away the ability for bubble u place on others to stun it can still stun people when applied to u.

 

True balance in an imo is an illusion anyway there will always be issues with classes. The main issue I have is with focus/rage and although I'm a vanguard as main I still thinks assault specialist is ops and tactics is under powered end of day we all gotta just to any changes that's where skill comes in skill always trumps all u just gotta find a way to make changes work. And ranked was when happen on my server usually bout who has most tanks and healers anyway. Rwz are kinda pointless as there no diff to normals really just u can take team of 8

[fungihoujo]

True balance is an illusion yes- but such imbalance that 3 DPS classes are not even considered viable in RWZ is beyond just true balance- we're talking massive scale here.

 

Every single healing class should bring something to RWZ- right now sorcs bring stun bubble, ops bring mobile healing- after nerf, only ops bring something unique. Every DPS should either match up for damage or bring something that makes up for a lack of damage- right now that's not the case because marauders have top damage and top healer disruption due to their mobility, CC, and they have great defensives- while snipers have the distinction of being the one counter to marauders. Still- sins are great for holding points and stealth capping, while PTs have the highest burst, and jugs have the rage spec now. They all bring something they can do better that is also objective centric.

 

Sorcs, mercs, dps ops- they don't bring anything to dps, they certainly don't bring healer killing or high burst or high survivability. Thus- they don't get taken for RWZ dps slots very often.

 

They need either a big boost, or, something to bring to the table that puts them ahead in some way.

[Calogerus]

Had to log in for this....

 

For you IDIOTS (sorry no other word for it) saying "Oh yea uhh I can pull 300k plus overall in WZ's on my sorc blahblablablah"

 

You must not understand OVERALL dps is not BURST dps which sorcs don't have any of. The arguement isnt we have no overall dps its we have no burst and that's what counts in pvp. Overall dps is for PVE anyone who says otherwise can't pvp.

 

The reason sorcs have high overall dps is because we have to cast more spells to attempt (see what I did there?) to kill someone vs them using 2-3 abilities. Eventually all those kill attempts (lol see?) add up which gives you the overall dps.

 

/rant off

Edited December 8, 2012 by Calogerus

[Chemic_al]

LOL u just made me laugh. That would cos everyone to either quit PvP or be the nooks who have to Errol to play the new ops class like the have with focus/rage spec. Urban post solves nothing and is nothing more than a silly attempt to get sorts op again. If u seriously need these changes to do well in PvP then u might want to change specs/class. I have 50 lightning sorcerers and pull 300k plus in a good wz my lol 14 sage did 180/200k damage and top medals and objectives. It's posts like this that show how ppl just want to be ops and not care about some sort of balance. But to counter u perhaps then vanguard dps should get a bubble or have hib hit for 9k or ap hit for 9k. Oh wait u wouldn't wanttwant that nor would anyone else

 

No, you made me a laugh. You think I want sorcs to be OP, lulz? No, I want our dps to be put at a place that justifies how squishy we are. We are supposed to be the glass cannon class, but we're glass with a water pistol. It's also a comment on the fact we are underperforming in PVE by very large margins now, you can't tell me with all the evidence mounting up our dps doesn't need a substantial buff.

 

But the fact you felt the need to mention you can do 300k in a wz, like that's good (it isn't) or even means anything, tells me you know nothing about the problems sorcs have.

 

You talk about balance, it kinda makes me think you're probably just another lolrauder trying to justify the stupidly OP class you have right now, by making out other classes are just fine for you to stomp on over and over.

Edited December 8, 2012 by Chemic_al

[Nucairion]

True balance is an illusion yes- but such imbalance that 3 DPS classes are not even considered viable in RWZ is beyond just true balance- we're talking massive scale here.

 

Every single healing class should bring something to RWZ- right now sorcs bring stun bubble, ops bring mobile healing- after nerf, only ops bring something unique. Every DPS should either match up for damage or bring something that makes up for a lack of damage- right now that's not the case because marauders have top damage and top healer disruption due to their mobility, CC, and they have great defensives- while snipers have the distinction of being the one counter to marauders. Still- sins are great for holding points and stealth capping, while PTs have the highest burst, and jugs have the rage spec now. They all bring something they can do better that is also objective centric.

 

Sorcs, mercs, dps ops- they don't bring anything to dps, they certainly don't bring healer killing or high burst or high survivability. Thus- they don't get taken for RWZ dps slots very often.

 

They need either a big boost, or, something to bring to the table that puts them ahead in some way.

 

The problem is if rage spec wasn't so op this discussion wouldn't be here. In the end people need to realise that if fact is Rwz ppl will take the ops everyclass performed there roles the same then advanced classes would be pointless. The fact rage is to op is making other classes left out of teams but that's a player problem. They will just stack the ops with the op classes. Rage spec with guaranteed crit on smash plus power stacking means teams rather take them as they cent win without them. Every class is viable and does well just people prefer messy mode than to work for there wins. The bubble is ur op skill every class has at least one. Besides u can still bubble stun just bubbles u place on others won't. As for healers I somewhat agree ops/scoundrels have advantage being able to heal on the move but they can't bubble they lack ability to speed away. Once rage gets needed things will pick up again and there's bound to be changes next year. My only point is the guy I originally responded to was just trolling and cleared can't hack a class if it's not massively op. Which will happen if bw don't stop tampering with classes

[Nucairion]

No, you made me a laugh. You think I want sorcs to be OP, lulz? No, I want our dps to be put at a place that justifies how squishy we are. We are supposed to be the glass cannon class, but we're glass with a water pistol. It's also a comment on the fact we are underperforming in PVE by very large margins now, you can't tell me with all the evidence mounting up our dps doesn't need a substantial buff.

 

But the fact you felt the need to mention you can do 300k in a wz, like that's good (it isn't) or even means anything, tells me you know nothing about the problems sorcs have.

 

You talk about balance, it kinda makes me think you're probably just another lolrauder trying to justify the stupidly OP class you have right now, by making out other classes are just fine for you to stomp on over and over.

 

Actually no I'm not Mara. Merc and sorcerers imp side vanguard rep side so wot now. The supposed underpowered classes and I'm fine with them both.

[LordArtemis]

Give us back an ability that works like the original overload but make sure it is disabled for PVP, give us a leech life ability from individual and group targets and a damage buff that ticks down our health (damage boost of, say, 20 percent that puts a DoT on our characters while the buff is active).

[Chemic_al]

Actually no I'm not Mara. Merc and sorcerers imp side vanguard rep side so wot now. The supposed underpowered classes and I'm fine with them both.

 

Wot now? I point out in no way is Vanguard an underpowered PvP class. And just because your clearly oh so important opinion that mercs and sorcs are fine for you, does not do anything to against the overwhelming opinion expressed in this thread that they need some buffing one way or another.

 

Trying to make out it's just smash monkeys provoking this debate, like hello!!!!! you been following sorc PvP changes since 1.2?

[fungihoujo]

The problem is if rage spec wasn't so op this discussion wouldn't be here. In the end people need to realise that if fact is Rwz ppl will take the ops everyclass performed there roles the same then advanced classes would be pointless. The fact rage is to op is making other classes left out of teams but that's a player problem. They will just stack the ops with the op classes. Rage spec with guaranteed crit on smash plus power stacking means teams rather take them as they cent win without them. Every class is viable and does well just people prefer messy mode than to work for there wins. The bubble is ur op skill every class has at least one. Besides u can still bubble stun just bubbles u place on others won't. As for healers I somewhat agree ops/scoundrels have advantage being able to heal on the move but they can't bubble they lack ability to speed away. Once rage gets needed things will pick up again and there's bound to be changes next year. My only point is the guy I originally responded to was just trolling and cleared can't hack a class if it's not massively op. Which will happen if bw don't stop tampering with classes

 

This has nothing to do with rage- and the bubble is being nerfed. Being able to stun only on yourself is a nerf to the one thing we have that brings us to RWZ- group utility.

 

Sorry- but would you honestly tell someone if predation was self only, and smash only hit one target- that wouldn't be a nerf because it's fine 1v1? No- having a very useful ability turned to self only is a massive nerf- especially since right now we survive by running through allies who have been bubbled- we can't do that once the nerf comes.

 

This has been a problem for 8 months- long before the big rage buff, heck, when we first started talking about this class's problems- rage was the weakest mara spec, everyone was carnage or annihilation.

 

We can't keep coming back to 'we are good because we have a bubble that can nullify one mediocre stun, or a speed boost on longer CD than leaps that can be countered by any CC with ease'. We have a minimal number of escapes that are easy to counter, no perma snare, no baseline root, no defensives, weak damage.

 

We have range- that is enough to explain why all our spells have cast times- THAT is the payment for being ranged- not losing any survivability, basic kiting abilities like baseline root and perma snare, defensives and most importantly- damage. And it's a harsh payment even for cast times when enemies have such great gap closing, dogged pursuit and interrupting power.

[Hairyzac]

There's too much here to comment on, but I noticed a lot of people repeating "the bubble is getting nerfed. BW already said so." So I figured that could use some clarification.

 

We're currently undergoing a lot of class rebalance for a future major patch, so it's an understatement to say that things aren't locked down yet. However, the problem with Backlash (Lightning's incapacitate on Static Barrier) is mostly that it can be applied to any target, making an entire team of allies stun-bubbled. Since this is such great utility for the Lightning Sorcerer, we don't want to change the effect of Backlash, but we are considering making the Backlash effect only apply to the original caster - so you only get a Backlash when you put your Static Barrier on yourself.

 

That's just the current idea. We don't have any plans on making Static Barrier or Backlash worse than it currently is for the Sorcerer that uses it.

 

We're aware that even this change lowers the amount of group support Lightning offers, so that's something we have to figure out before we can pull the trigger on Backlash.

 

I wish I could tell you guys more, but there isn't enough locked down yet. Rest assured, it's not as simple as "too good - nerf. Next."

 

Austin Peckenpaugh thank you for posting this. These comments of yours show much competence to us the players. Your one post is proof that someone such as yourself can come here to the class and pvp forums, and tell us exactly what you are thinking about specific important topics like this one. Your response is truly thrilling to see. I agree with basically everything you said above.

 

Please continue to make comments like these in the future. I think everyone understands that there are many questions. But, at times, there are questions/thoughts about things currently effecting the game in a big or even huge way. I feel, and I am confident to say so do a lot of others, that letting us know what you are thinking is the right thing to do.

 

So continue to let us in on your thought process involving the important topics. I look forward to more all-star comments like this one. Personally, I would like to know how you feel about the Consumption ability in relation to PvP, and what specs are used. Cheers.

[Fireswraith]

Austin Peckenpaugh thank you for posting this. These comments of yours show much competence to us the players. Your one post is proof that someone such as yourself can come here to the class and pvp forums, and tell us exactly what you are thinking about specific important topics like this one. Your response is truly thrilling to see. I agree with basically everything you said above.

 

Please continue to make comments like these in the future. I think everyone understands that there are many questions. But, at times, there are questions/thoughts about things currently effecting the game in a big or even huge way. I feel, and I am confident to say so do a lot of others, that letting us know what you are thinking is the right thing to do.

 

So continue to let us in on your thought process involving the important topics. I look forward to more all-star comments like this one. Personally, I would like to know how you feel about the Consumption ability in relation to PvP, and what specs are used. Cheers.

 

Heh not sure if that was sarcastic or honest. I think it was honest, but it's funnier thinking of it as sarcastic

 

Anyways, sure it's nice that we got some recognition, wasn't exactly in a good way. But Tuesday is 1.6 so we'll see what class changes they've got, if any. Only thing with what you said is that BioWare doesn't tell us anything that isn't set in stone, nor their thoughts. They don't have much community interaction, especially in the class forums; though I'm sure they read them.

[fungihoujo]

Heh not sure if that was sarcastic or honest. I think it was honest, but it's funnier thinking of it as sarcastic

 

Anyways, sure it's nice that we got some recognition, wasn't exactly in a good way. But Tuesday is 1.6 so we'll see what class changes they've got, if any. Only thing with what you said is that BioWare doesn't tell us anything that isn't set in stone, nor their thoughts. They don't have much community interaction, especially in the class forums; though I'm sure they read them.

 

There's nothing in the patch notes on any nerfs or buffs- it's going to be a major piss off if yet again they move in untested stealth nerfs... but not a surprising one.

 

Hopefully they're going to give some thought to how to buff us in return for any stun bubble nerf- so I imagine we'll see nothing til January/1.7 at the earliest.

[Cizar]

I think instead of making it usable only by original caster, it should be made unable to manually debuffed.

[Jakees]

here what bioware did

 

the guys making the sage/sorcs had all these great cds for them

 

then the guys making the sent/maras who where too stupid to think of any cds for them so they stole all the sages/sorcs cd

and said that looks alot better on this class

 

that sounds about righte

[AdmiralParmesan]

Anyone here play Kotor 1 or 2?

 

 

Why is drain life or drain force not a usable ability in TOR? It was a staple darkside power that could not be used in heavy armor in Kotor I & II. Honestly it seems like the sorcerer archetype should have this ability. The lack of creativity with the sorcerer move set is kinda sad.

 

There is a low quality picture of the move for those who didn't play in the article. The ability basically hit the opponent for a good amount of damage and stole health based on the damage done.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_drain

[SoonerJBD]

Why does everyone think we are supposed to be a glass cannon class? We have plenty of tools for survival to make up for low armor. We get a bubble and a free self heal, both on low cooldown. Low cooldown force speed. Casted self heals. What else do you want?

 

Our DPS could stand a slight buff. That's it. Most of the suggestions in here would make us way OP. A 5 percent damage buff would be fine, especially if it helped our burst.

[Nucairion]

This has nothing to do with rage- and the bubble is being nerfed. Being able to stun only on yourself is a nerf to the one thing we have that brings us to RWZ- group utility.

 

Sorry- but would you honestly tell someone if predation was self only, and smash only hit one target- that wouldn't be a nerf because it's fine 1v1? No- having a very useful ability turned to self only is a massive nerf- especially since right now we survive by running through allies who have been bubbled- we can't do that once the nerf comes.

 

This has been a problem for 8 months- long before the big rage buff, heck, when we first started talking about this class's problems- rage was the weakest mara spec, everyone was carnage or annihilation.

 

We can't keep coming back to 'we are good because we have a bubble that can nullify one mediocre stun, or a speed boost on longer CD than leaps that can be countered by any CC with ease'. We have a minimal number of escapes that are easy to counter, no perma snare, no baseline root, no defensives, weak damage.

 

We have range- that is enough to explain why all our spells have cast times- THAT is the payment for being ranged- not losing any survivability, basic kiting abilities like baseline root and perma snare, defensives and most importantly- damage. And it's a harsh payment even for cast times when enemies have such great gap closing, dogged pursuit and interrupting power.

 

Fung u make a good case but every class suffers problems with leaps. Vanguard for example. 1 short are stun and 1 single target stun. Sure they can pull but unlike leap it can't be used as often. No matter how they try no ranged class can stay ranged for long. My main prob ain't even bout the bubble yes I think it needs a nerf but that's my opinion. My problem is with the guy/girl who had audacity to say sorcs should get guaranteed 8k crit. Dots that do 6-7k damage pegcd as well as thundering blast instant 6k damage. That does not silver the overall problems of PvP it will just make it worse.

 

With that said I will say why I think bubble stun needs a nerf. It's a fact it is able to really instantly after one ends with no CD if a second or even third persons bubble gets burst. Lets look at another debated stun for a sec and look at cybertechs stun grenades. They have a 3 min CD and share a CD with all the 400 cybertechs grenades meaning it can't be spammed. Even tho my vg is a cybertechs I do think like rakata adrenal or proc relics they shouldn't be useable in PvP but they still have a long CD. The bubble stun can spam not instantly but at least with well timed use of bubbles every minute 8 times.

 

Lastly I had missed placed something in previous post by underpowered classes I was fine with how they are I ment sorcerers and merc. I used vg for anther intention which seems want made clear

Edited December 9, 2012 by Nucairion

[Nucairion]

Why does everyone think we are supposed to be a glass cannon class? We have plenty of tools for survival to make up for low armor. We get a bubble and a free self heal, both on low cooldown. Low cooldown force speed. Casted self heals. What else do you want?

 

Our DPS could stand a slight buff. That's it. Most of the suggestions in here would make us way OP. A 5 percent damage buff would be fine, especially if it helped our burst.

 

Now this I can agree with some1 who sees sence

[Vladnar]

a buff to numbers in terms of healing and damage would seem necessary for healers.........i don't see any of the classes really need anything too dramatic, just a few extra numbers here and a few less numbers there........nobody is playing lighning sorcs anyway..........warrior smash numbers do need to come down a bit, 1 to 2 thousand wouldn't be a miss and sorcs up for both...........snipers deadly as sin against sorcs but seem ok when pitted against others but im sure a tinker here and there would suit fine for all in the long run........

 

It would be so nice to see no class over-represented cos when one has an advantage there seems to be a flock to it, until they all switch to alts to gear up.

 

Ok, cheers for the feedback.

[fungihoujo]

Why does everyone think we are supposed to be a glass cannon class? We have plenty of tools for survival to make up for low armor. We get a bubble and a free self heal, both on low cooldown. Low cooldown force speed. Casted self heals. What else do you want?

 

Our DPS could stand a slight buff. That's it. Most of the suggestions in here would make us way OP. A 5 percent damage buff would be fine, especially if it helped our burst.

 

If we were truly that survivable and valued we'd have a role in RWZ as a steady member- outside of bubble stuns.

 

A 5% damage nerf would still put us under most pve parses- and we'd still be way too low in the burst department.

 

Our survivability is not as good as you think.

 

Unfortunately- we have no access to BW's metrics- but the last player study of RWZ over about 200 games put sorcs as the most deaths per match- 11, while marauders had the least at 5.

 

Also- the force speed has a longer CD than leaps- look at melee classes. Mara and jugg have a shorter CD leap, but, can make that even shorter, or get a second leap- or say, carnage gets two extra roots, one on a measely 12 second CD.

 

We have no baseline root- and full madness is almost never taken so that leaves us with needing to hybrid lightning for a root- not pure lightning though because pure lightning is terrible damage. We have no perma snare- our instant snare has a 6 sec duration, 12 sec CD- force lightning roots us and thus is not ideal for kiting.

 

 

We have range yes- but the cost for range in every other mmo is this- you get range, and your abilities have cast times. We have that- plus no defensives, plus lower burst, plus weak armour, plus no CC breaks, etc...

 

 

Yes, we have force speed- but it can be countered by anything as DPS, and only heal hybrids can at least avoid being rooted- but guess what, a mara can either root you if you're dps, or force choke you, or mez you if you're a healer, wasting your one escape.

 

The KB has very little distance to it- useful for knocking off huttball ramps but not for really eluding someone (the root in lightning is the good thing there).

 

Self heal is 30 sec CD- even using it, no fight against a burster will last that long- thus, you get to heal 3-5k hp, less if you've been trauma debuffed. Bubble is about 4k health.

 

Sounds good? That's one smash crit, or a rail shot/punch combo. Yes, you can waste maybe 2 or 3 GCDs- but not only do these classes still have more burst and sustained after that- which they're hitting you for far more damage (light armour is about 18% damage reduction, medium about 33%- so you're taking a good chunk more than a mara- nevermind all their defensives)- but their smash or double rail shot combo and thermal, etc... will be back up long before that heal is.

 

Casted self heals are very easy to interrupt.

 

 

But nevermind that- consider the reality- that you are first target, you are squishy, you have no defensive ability or mobility when locked down- and many other classes can and will chain root you to death. All the while- you have nothing to offer a team for DPS- you can't kill healers, you can't clear doors or nodes, you can't break a caster or pressure a healer- not as well as PTs, mara, juggs, sins or snipers can.

 

 

I don't want us to be OP- I want us to be at a point where we have as much value in a RWZ dps slot as any other player- a 5% damage boost is not going to do that- those classes survive better, move better, protect/take objectives better. We may even lose our one spot- as healer/stun bubble once we lose the stun bubble to a second healing operative.

 

Then what are we? Mercs?

[fungihoujo]

Consider that it's almost unanimous- that 9 out of 10 or more people in the class feedback thread agree that everyone else considers this class a free kill- we don't get to that point if there isn't something very wrong with the class- and I guarantee if you'd asked those same questions before 1.2, the responses would be extremely different.

 

We are not in a good place right now, and it's going to take more than band aid fixes to make us not just viable- but as much a threat as anything else.

[Malkavier]

The entire problem with Sorcs:

 

There is essentially no scaling whatsoever for Sorc DPS abilities.

 

Madness Sorc? Your DoTs in WH augmented won't hit any harder than the ones put out by someone in Recruit MK-1 Gear, let alone MK-2. In fact, nothing of yours scales at all. At least you get access to useful instant casts, unlike your fellow DPS tree. Oh, and some self-heals that aren't entirely too shabby.

 

Lightning? LOLOLOL, by the time you actually get to the end of your interminable cast times (Only, and I mean the only DPS spec on the Empire side, reliant on Alacrity to get anything done at all other than respawning), your target has already moved out of range. Oh, and to top it off, your stuff doesn't scale either, and you couldn't do enough damage to break a wet paper bag, with help from three other Lightning Sorcs.

[Rigaux]

The entire problem with Sorcs:

 

There is essentially no scaling whatsoever for Sorc DPS abilities.

 

Madness Sorc? Your DoTs in WH augmented won't hit any harder than the ones put out by someone in Recruit MK-1 Gear, let alone MK-2. In fact, nothing of yours scales at all. At least you get access to useful instant casts, unlike your fellow DPS tree. Oh, and some self-heals that aren't entirely too shabby.

 

Lightning? LOLOLOL, by the time you actually get to the end of your interminable cast times (Only, and I mean the only DPS spec on the Empire side, reliant on Alacrity to get anything done at all other than respawning), your target has already moved out of range. Oh, and to top it off, your stuff doesn't scale either, and you couldn't do enough damage to break a wet paper bag, with help from three other Lightning Sorcs.

 

I once thought about what a coordinated team of 3 lightning Sorcs using TB would be like. Came up with: 3 times the burst. dies just as fast. Really wish BW would say more about Sorcerers besides the bubble stun.

[Chemic_al]

Why does everyone think we are supposed to be a glass cannon class? We have plenty of tools for survival to make up for low armor. We get a bubble and a free self heal, both on low cooldown. Low cooldown force speed. Casted self heals. What else do you want?

 

Our DPS could stand a slight buff. That's it. Most of the suggestions in here would make us way OP. A 5 percent damage buff would be fine, especially if it helped our burst.

 

Oh really? The more I read your posts, it seems to me you seem to be in the lucky position of having a team carry you, either that or you're trolling. I really don't want to think the latter, but I don't know how you can keep reposting this nonsense.

 

Slight dps buff, like what? I mentioned sorc dps was way below other ACs by 15%, you remember, told me to check ToRparse claiming that sorc/sage dps is in the top 50s and that we are like only 11% behind snipers in theory. I then post the information, that gaps as large as 26% exist with the closest being 15% where sorcs actually made it into the top 50 and here you are claiming a 5% buff tops is all that is needed.

 

I also noticed you never responded to the figures posted, so I can only assume you want to conveniently ignore them. Now why would that be, unless they contradict you.... hmm?

 

Take home message: 5% is clearly not enough.

 

A bubble - that absorbs 3kish?

 

Really? Something that can't even absorb one GCD of damage?

 

Force speed - that has no root protection and is easily countered, because unlike our sin cousins, we don't have anything like shroud to use. That is what you're posting as a survival tool?

 

The self heal, granted is nice ... if you're heal spec. DPS spec it's okay. Nothing more than that.

 

Casted self-heals, well what idiot is going to let you cast them? Like really? Oh right because you went to the other side of the map, taking yourself out of the fight to cast them. I won't deny the utility of being able to heal others in a pinch, but that's nowhere near enough.

 

As to what we need, well fungihoujo and others have already posted stuff, which you just dismiss as "would make the class OP" without any reasoning whatsoever.

 

So, the only conclusion I can infer, is that you actually lack any reason to say so. So maybe you are just trolling?

[alexzk]

Actually DPS has 2 parts:

D = damadge

S = seconds

 

So if u cant do dmg higher then boost ur time being alive. That is simple.

Sorc has all tools for that, he can do more dmg or have more time...And don't forget that your build must be aligned with your gear. You can't do good one without second.