what's the best space game out there bioware can model SwToR's space 2.0 on?

[Macetheace]

Now, am I saying that the current implementation of space combat in SW:TOR is awesome? Heck, no. But it is definitely more iconic, more "Star Wars," than JTL was. If they could give us the action of the current rail shooter with the openness of a space sim, that would be bloody awesome. But don't pretend that JTL was great simply because of the memories you have of the people who played it with you.

 

that is what i think people are looking for, you want the fast pace elements and hot spots in space combat when it occurs, and you'd like some exploration elemnts for those who want to just hang out in space catering for them also.

 

one of the things i wish they would work on would be planet to space tansitions.. space and land don't really feel connected, perhaps in a space 2.0 you can see yourself fly into each planets space port from out of space, the loading screen occurs once you touch down on the port, as it will load the actual ground world, likewise, in leaving the planet and going into space you would see yourslef fly out with the planet behind you, loading screen can occur when you either dock into a spaceship or you jump to ligh speed. Atm in gamme you don't feel connected to space at all, If you load onto your ship, , you should be able to switch between space view that views you as your ship in space, or character view, that will view you as your character on your ship. You can jump to light speed and your next destination from either interface, but the space interface has to be there.

 

The only other thing i'd say is improve the graphics of the planets from outer space view point, i mean they're just picutres aren't they, even if it's just a 3-D model that rotates, let it be a decent cool looking one, then they can work on stunning space views like the ones i saw in the elite dawn video as different places you may encounter.. but have that feeling

[Shingara]

Guys I do not know,

 

All I really would like to have is the X Wing vs Tie fighter based game with new graphics up gradable ships an internet multi player with ranking.

 

To cram this into one game I always considered strange even CCP is doing the ground combat element as separate game for EVE.

 

These hybrids tend to generate monster of a source code. For TOR it would be better IMO not to have free flight but maybe only add ship based boarding action guild vs guild element with more variety to the current space missions.

 

Its not so much that they create monsters of source code, its that no one bar sony with swg ever even attempted todo multi platform mmos to this extent, sto did it half heartedly but cryptic never even attempted to put content into there game, they simply rushed it out of the door for quick cash on the back of the IP.

 

Eve is doing the dust on PS3 only simply due to the fact it is the most lucrative offer they have, could they do it on pc ? of course they could and its not a matter of source code, its the case that to get it onto PS3 it had to be limited to PS3.

 

If anything seperating the 2 elements is alot easier then adding expantions to the land based game, becuase variably with an expantion to a land based game or should i say single element gameplay requires enough changes to justify purchasing said expantion. In most cases they involve reworking the mmo they have to make it so that to be competative you have to purchase that expantion.

 

With a dual element mmo you can cut that away, you can add to one without changing the other at all, you can flip and change so the dev teams in charge of each aspect can push and pull between them to take the weight of the other team who maybe having problems to push content onto there platform of the game and buy the other dev team time becuase look over there thats shiney and we are working on the bugs here.

 

Could the game get big, of course it could but so could adding an expantion to the game, and adding elements to an already existing platform can introduce new bugs, possibly game breaking bugs that require years of testing and working out, with dual elements like i previously stated the other element can take the strain whilst its being sorted out thus giving limited protection to the game as a whole.

 

And the plus's far outweigh the negatives, does it take more money to create yes but in the same stance does the extra dev work increase profits, yes. And it does this because it opens up the game to a wider audience if done correctly.

 

In closing, they have held there hands up and stated guild ships are coming in a workable fashion but with no eta, they can only be workable with free flight stand alone space game added into swtor. They have also stated that the space missions we are getting are nothing todo with the space project nor is the space project like the space missions.

 

And at the end of the day this may just work like mass effect space at the start with fly on the map and drop into zones for space gameplay, it wouldnt have tobe out and out all of space, aslong as they axpand it over time we could eventually end up with access to all of space simply by them adding areas together until we have one coherant area encompasing known and unknown regions of space.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Shingara

[Stradlin]

Oh when I played x-wing mine was bugged I couldn't progress but overall your right tie fighter was way better.

It might be you are mistaking X-wing(prequel of Tie Fighter) to X-Wing Alliance(Sequel)

Edited November 14, 2012 by Stradlin

[MasterKayote]

Either the space missions in Shadows of the Empire or the free range missions in Rogue Squadron ... but with other players nearby.

[Storm-Cutter]

I think that breaking the rail and giving free movement would be the way to go, possibly add in multiplayer, so Heroic 2 or heroic 4 missions are avialable... Then maybe some element of PVP solo or team (empire vs republic), and rewards for missions add in a proper groupfinder would be appropriate. - The elements are already there, but the rail aspect is the biggest pain IMHO.

[CKNORTH]

It might be you are mistaking X-wing(prequel of Tie Fighter) to X-Wing Alliance(Sequel)

 

Could of been I wasn't that good with computers back then lol. The only thing that came close to tie fighter was a flight sim for the Xbox when phantom menace came out, think it was called naboo fighter or something Lol, and in regards to the Xbox it also came out with an amazing pod racing game that was pretty intense. If only they implemented things like this and being that those games were around the same time that the engine for this game was designed it probably wouldn't be to hard to implement some ( basic? ) old designs? Lol

 

Edit: actually I think naboo fighter was PS2 and the pod racing game was N64 Lol!

Edited November 14, 2012 by CKNORTH

[Macetheace]

Elite

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite_%28video_game%29

This game STARTED the entire genre. The 1980's version had 8 galaxies with 256 planets each. It was developed by David Braben and Ian Bell while they were in college and fit into 11K. Smaller than most of today's emails. They had a massive OPEN WORLD game (no rails LOL) an in game economy, ship upgrades, docking stations and the Blue Danube! Arguably one of the most influential video games of all time.

 

Elite Dangerous

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite:_Dangerous

The recently announced successor to Elite and its previous sequels. This looks to be a MMO with a massive universe and updated game play, graphics, etc. Anyone thinking of doing a next generation space sim needs to look at what David Braben and Frontier Developments are bringing in March of 2014.

 

The X Series by Egosoft

http://www.egosoft.com/games/x3ap/info_en.php

Many people considered this series to be the spiritual successor to Elite. Big open universe, awesome graphics, highly moddable. Single player only though. These guys are out of Germany. I've played a few titles in the series and it's very reminiscent of Elite.

 

Independence War 2: Edge of Chaos

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_War_2:_Edge_of_Chaos

This game was really overlooked. I think because it was maybe because of the PC requirements at the time. It had a really cool story, upgradable ships and a big open universe to explore. One thing I liked about this game in particular was that you could literally fly from point A to point B. There was hyperspace and ways to speed up time but if you targeted a far off system you could literally travel in space all the way there. It removed that cramped feeling that you had in JTL when you bounced off the edge of a zone. In this game there were no zones. You could travel into outer space forever.

 

Star Wars Galaxies: Jump to Lightspeed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Galaxies:_Jump_to_Lightspeed

Yes we all talk about this one. However, the multilayer aspect in JTL was amazing. Not only could you blast your friends out of space but you could team up with them and have them man turrets. One ship (the mining one) had like 5 turrets. So you could steer your ship while five of your friends blasted enemies out of space! Additionally, this was the only game I played where ships had an interior. Interiors that you could walk around in and decorate and look out the windows at the action. I remember standing in my space yacht looking out the windows watching a battle. Talk about immersion!

 

Star Citizen by Chris Roberts

This is a spiritual successor to the Wing Commander series. No list would be complete without the Wing Commander series. Cool cinematic story, awesome game play. I will never forget being in college and seeing my roommate with a pillow over his head (trying to sleep) while I was at my desk playing the first VO version of Wing Commander, "YOU CANNOT DEFEAT THE DRAKHAI!!!!!!!"

 

Awesome summary, basically bioware really should look at all these games, let SWTOR benefit for a change from being an EA published game by making a great space sim. . I like Chris Roberts' video on Star citizen, where more or new destinations can be introduced every few weeks or months, meaning that they can really get this off the ground quickly nad add new space areas to explore and new space battles with each patch, rather than wait a year to relase, so it can gorw with time.

 

especially if your spaceship level is different from your character level, whiles you're at max level character wise at 50, waiting the extra year or 2 a new expansion will take, you can be ooccupying yourself with Ops/flashpoints/dailies for the ground base fun, but steadily be levelling your spaceship gated with the new content released every few weeks. there would not be an end game experience like that. and because its levelling is different from character levelling, as really you're levelling a ship and learning ship controls i.e. a different game, they can choose whether you can have access t o full functionality at level 14/16 when your character gets his ship, or give full access only once you've completed all the class story missions at level 50. or a combo, as in if it's your first charcter, you need to unlock the feature by completeing the class quests and hitting 50, then on subsequent characters, they can access the feature from the point they get their ship at level 14/16

[Macetheace]

Wow Star Citizen is Just amazing looking. SWTOR will have nothing like that. However I would say SWTOR should have a COMPANION game. Same monthly sub allows access to it. This way TOR could have its cake and eat it too and not be limited by the hero engine. Then all the while be re-writing the base game to work with the NEW engine and then drop HERO for the new engine.

 

i was thinking of them having the land base part of the game going at $7.50/£4.50 and the space game wing going at the same, alternatively they could make the full space experience only part of the subscription, leaving basic space combat that is already ingame as the only bit you experience free2play. Ofc F2play will epxeirence the new space graphics, the new planet models from space and see the new take off /landing cinematics - but only those with space access will be able to free fly landings/take offs, and go on fruther to space exploration and multi-ship space combat scenarios. It does present options

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

to make anything happen which is worth playing (e.g. massive multiplayer battles with at least 200+ players, flagships, eve/star citizen like sandbox universe..) they will have a giga-ton of work pimping up the custom hero engine version the game is using.

[Tkerzis]

swg jump to light speed but with better graphics.

 

^ End of topic right there, everyone else can go home now.

[LordHartigan]

and how far should they go?

 

It's obvious to me, adding a proper space element to the game is the way forward, it is an entire dimension other mmo's like wow don't have. Can you imagine? hitting a character to level 50 and having an enitre space game to play with?

 

Ofc you would be levelling your space ship as opposed to your character - no mmo has ever had a decent progression at end game, and ToR with a space game can have players on the one hand doing end game content land based for their toons that is every bit as good and in many ways better than wow, but we al lknow that is not the same as a levelling experience, which with a space game they can do.

 

So, who should it be modelled after? I've heard of some interesting games out there, like Elite Guard :

which is the sort of level of detail i would love to see for the space game, and probably could be the basis of space combat.. but you would want to add exploration also: Not sure how that would work, would you model it after star trek games? is there any game that has really made a good space rpg? travel around in your ship? Is EVE online like that? or was SWG like that? - i mean you would want elite guard like graphics for space.

 

you want to see beautiful looking space zones, and definitely they'd have to do a proper space view of all the current planets in game, making it possible to pilot your ship or view it flying from space into the atmosphere tot he space port,

 

EVE is a space MMO where your avatar is essentially your ship. It's 'leveling' system is highly complex however. You basically level stats to make yourself more proficient in your ship or to gain access to bigger, better ones. What EVE lacks is the speed of SW space battles. It's got the many player controlled ships occupying the same space part down, but for Star Wars like combat it would have to much more manuevarably and more dog fight like.

[WookieIsshe]

Where did I attack it for its graphics? The gameplay itself is slow, boring, repetitive and plodding. Not at all like the combat depicted in any of the Star Wars movies. The effort was appreciated, but the result was terrible. But again, people tend to laud SW:G for what it set out to do rather than what it actually was.

 

The one redeeming facet of that game was that (until the CE/NGE) they listened to and catered to their community as a whole. They would give people goals to accomplish as a community, reasons to form a community, rather than having the community as an obstacle to be overcome as it is in the modern MMO.

 

Now, am I saying that the current implementation of space combat in SW:TOR is awesome? Heck, no. But it is definitely more iconic, more "Star Wars," than JTL was. If they could give us the action of the current rail shooter with the openness of a space sim, that would be bloody awesome. But don't pretend that JTL was great simply because of the memories you have of the people who played it with you.

 

 

That is simply YOUR opinion.. There are literly 10's of thousands of players from SWG that LOVED JTL myself included. Do not lump everyone into your opinion.

[LordHartigan]

That is simply YOUR opinion.. There are literly 10's of thousands of players from SWG that LOVED JTL myself included. Do not lump everyone into your opinion.

 

There are actually not literally 10s of thousands of players that loved it. No way did that game have even an entire player base of 10s of thousands, let alone 10s of thousands that thought JTL was good.

[CelCawdro]

That is simply YOUR opinion.. There are literly 10's of thousands of players from SWG that LOVED JTL myself included. Do not lump everyone into your opinion.

 

Stating that something is someone's opinion says nothing - there are relatively very, very few things a person can say that are actual fact, particularly when talking about something like perception. Likewise, if there were tens of thousands of players that loved JTL... where did they go? I'm sure quite a few people, such as myself, tolerated it. But if there was such an outpouring of support, SW:G wouldn't have gone where it ultimately went.

 

And even if there were "tens of thousands" of people, that's a tiny minority when you're designing a game to cater to millions of players.

Edited November 14, 2012 by CelCawdro

[Shingara]

Stating that something is someone's opinion says nothing - there are relatively very, very few things a person can say that are actual fact, particularly when talking about something like perception. Likewise, if there were tens of thousands of players that loved JTL... where did they go? I'm sure quite a few people, such as myself, tolerated it. But if there was such an outpouring of support, SW:G wouldn't have gone where it ultimately went.

 

And even if there were "tens of thousands" of people, that's a tiny minority when you're designing a game to cater to millions of players.

 

Its foolish to blame swg's demise on jtl, swg went toodle pip becuase of the cu and then the nge, its outdated graphics and combat system didnt not help it compared to what was on the market. And all you need is a tiny spark to light a flame.

 

And when your designing a game for millions you create it by catering to alot of minoirtys who make up a big community, it is fragmentation of minoritys that got us where we are now.

[CelCawdro]

Its foolish to blame swg's demise on jtl, swg went toodle pip becuase of the cu and then the nge, its outdated graphics and combat system didnt not help it compared to what was on the market. And all you need is a tiny spark to light a flame.

 

And when your designing a game for millions you create it by catering to alot of minoirtys who make up a big community, it is fragmentation of minoritys that got us where we are now.

 

I didn't blame the demise on JTL - merely pointing out that it surely didn't save it. Putting words in my mouth does you no credit. Likewise, I'm not debating how the game should be designed, merely pointing out how it has been designed. In an ideal world, BioWare may have tried to cater to a large swathe of players, but the suits at EA sure did everything they could do to prevent them from doing so - they wanted to poach the gear treadmill marathon runners and PvP eSports atheletes from WoW, and essentially designed the entire endgame of SW:TOR for two generalized playerbases that are already playing a different game.

[Shingara]

I didn't blame the demise on JTL - merely pointing out that it surely didn't save it. Putting words in my mouth does you no credit. Likewise, I'm not debating how the game should be designed, merely pointing out how it has been designed. In an ideal world, BioWare may have tried to cater to a large swathe of players, but the suits at EA sure did everything they could do to prevent them from doing so - they wanted to poach the gear treadmill marathon runners and PvP eSports atheletes from WoW, and essentially designed the entire endgame of SW:TOR for two generalized playerbases that are already playing a different game.

 

Im not putting words into your mouth, if it came across as that it was not my intention, but jtl didnt impact negativly upon swg, infact i know alot of people who gave up on the land game and simply played the space game after the cu so jtl probably prolonged the life of swg.

 

And we arnt debating how the game has been designed, but how it could be enhanced via new designs built into it, they can poach esports right now if they wished by created 3 new maps for hutball, adding a spectator mode and having set teams of 8-10 players and set up a legue and compotitions and bam, esports winner.

 

But that is besides the point, the fact that the gamestyle we have now hasnt kept the players shows that an alternative and different market should be targeted to compliment swtor as the only thing that will kill wow is wow. Not swtor and as such swtor has to stand on its own merits and carve a path of its own and adapt not just in the space game but also in the land game.

[LordArtemis]

There are actually not literally 10s of thousands of players that loved it. No way did that game have even an entire player base of 10s of thousands, let alone 10s of thousands that thought JTL was good.

 

The game had 300k subs at its peak (approx)

 

In almost all the polls run that I am aware of (one in particular Im thinking of that had 8400 votes and over 9000 replies) the playerbase that participated in the polls loved JTL, usually voting above 70 percent.

 

One thread did speak at length about the PVP turning problem though...basically whoever had the quickest turn would win. But then again thats how 3d combat works.

 

In all of the reviews I have seen as well JTL was well received.

 

Though one couldnt say LITERALLY 10s of thousands, one could assume as much. It was pretty popular with players.

[wishunter]

It would be cool if they could put in a space pvp also as long as space combat changes. It would also be nice if you could buy new ships, and add modable parts to improve stats. I never played SWG jump to light speed but from what I hear it was one of the best space combat out there.

[SawneyRath]

Jump to Light Speed for sure.

 

The ability to mine Asteroids, have your friends man turrets and Ops seats (Co-Pilot), and the large free roaming space was amazing. Being able to customize almost every aspect of your ship, and having many options for what kind of ship/how big of a ship you wanted was even better.

 

You could fly a Freighter, or a Bomber, or an Interceptor, or anything you could outfit. Pick a paint job, and set up the inside the way you wanted, and then go to town destroying pirates, or being a pirate. I had amazing times in SWG's JTL expansion. Even just getting in my ship, and flying to the various planets instead of waiting for a shuttle was fun.

 

SWG was an amazing game, that had many flaws, but Space was certainly done right.

[Hambunctious]

There's really only 3 choices if you want to keep the SW feel. XvT, SWG, and BF2. Though BF2 had some funky flight mechanics that were wrong imo, but the boarding of cap ships was cool.

[Hambunctious]

I didn't blame the demise on JTL - merely pointing out that it surely didn't save it. Putting words in my mouth does you no credit. Likewise, I'm not debating how the game should be designed, merely pointing out how it has been designed. In an ideal world, BioWare may have tried to cater to a large swathe of players, but the suits at EA sure did everything they could do to prevent them from doing so - they wanted to poach the gear treadmill marathon runners and PvP eSports atheletes from WoW, and essentially designed the entire endgame of SW:TOR for two generalized playerbases that are already playing a different game.

 

It didn't save it because it was too freaking late. IF they had launched with JTL the game might never have seen the NGE, but it would have gotten the CU.

 

Be that as it may, the JTL functionality was awesome outside of the mindless grinding, and generic station missions.

 

It should be obvious to you that most people who aren't playing wow aren't looking for a pure linear themepark game like swtor, else they would be playing wow. Those who play wow now aren't going to leave it for another clone with less than half of what wow already has either.

[anonnn]

I haven't played other space games much, but there are reasons that I believe SWG's JTL is the best space game to date. It doesn't have the best graphics and maybe not the best technicals, however those aren't the only factors that can make it the most enjoyable. Here's the best things about the space game in SWG:

 

• both fighter ships and gunships
  ok so SWG probably isn't the only game with many-player gunships, but this is a very important factor to make space PvP enjoyable... having a mix of fighter ships and Gunships is essential for exciting and varied battle dynamics
  
• POB ships
  The 2-turret Milennium Falcon and the massive 8-turrret Vigo Gunship allow Players-On-Board, meaning you can hop out of the turret and run around the ship. Maybe not a feature exclusive to SWG, but so very essential for realistic gameplay
  
• crafting your own ship parts
  this was the gold feature in SWG's space side of the game. Every part from the Reactor and Capacitor, to the Armor and Shields, and every last Turret was a custom-crafted piece of equipment. This means you could tune your gunship to specific styles of play by changing its performance characteristics. And you could swap out ship parts in-between battles if you expected to need a tradeoff between shields and weapon power
  
• camera lock
  this is one of the most valuable tools during any battle, whether you're in a fighter ship or a gunship. It gives a quick heads-up of where exactly in your sphere an enemy target is located, and for Gunships it's an essential tool for good strategic piloting when used as the primary view. Other space sims likely have this feature, but it still needs to be mentioned because it's absolutely required for piloting a Gunship
  

 

One of the features I'd like from a space game is a spontaneous but formal space battle start/end tool, to not only time and orchestrate the battle, but to keep track of damage & destruction statistics and have multiple choices for win criteria. If the information was stored in a database and then made available via an in-game browser, as well as via simple in-game URL-style links that can be embedded in the in-game mail messages, it would be pretty cool.

 

A Boarding Party feature would be amazing. Make sure to buff up before launch!

 

If feasible there's a need for more detail and fidelity as Chris Roberts calls it when talking about

. I mean, check out marker 01:25 in that video, and when he destroys the ship around 01:35, look closely at the debris.