BW, do you ever plan on addressing DPS Mercs/Commandos PvP-wise?

[Osxoba]

well i had been under the impression before that 1000 posts was thread limit, but we are way past that lol.

 

it might already be the longest thread tbh

 

We're currently 4th in total replies in PVP forum, right behind "Pre-mades are ruining non-ranked PVP"

[Masarko]

Mercs are more viable than Powetechs.

[Ryvirath]

Mercs are right on par with MM snipers damage wise. They pretty much got everything they needed.

[T-Assassin]

Of course not. It's only a matter of time before it reaches the all time top ignored thread.

 

Fixed.

[PerinnAybara]

Mercs are right on par with MM snipers damage wise. They pretty much got everything they needed.

 

MM snipers with their heal debuff on shatter shot, with their now uncleansable armor debuff which they can apply with all specs of snipers? With their 3 minute aoe shield that helps the team control an area? Or their orbital strike which works very well at effective area denial again? 20% ranged defenses, and invulnerability to ranged attacks when they don't attack? Or their 15 seconds of entrench on a hrm how long is that cooldown? 45 seconds? Or something? What about the fact that my ranged interrupt can only be used on other mercs, sorcs, and operative healers? Not snipers? Or that true escape? Woot super roll!. What about leap immunity? Or a ranged root? Or the knife?

 

Sure we got everything we needed. But based on that perspective snipers need to be nerfed to the ground.

Edited May 3, 2013 by PerinnAybara

[TUXs]

We're currently 4th in total replies in PVP forum, right behind "Pre-mades are ruining non-ranked PVP"

 

Geezus...we need to step it up people!!! There's only like 15 people that complain about that...we surely have that many Commandos still playing...right?! Guys??

[Osxoba]

Mercs are right on par with MM snipers damage wise. They pretty much got everything they needed.

Oh boy, I LOL'd hard on that one.

[NoTomorrow]

MM snipers with their heal debuff on shatter shot, with their now uncleansable armor debuff which they can apply with all specs of snipers? With their 3 minute aoe shield that helps the team control an area? Or their orbital strike which works very well at effective area denial again? 20% ranged defenses, and invulnerability to ranged attacks when they don't attack? Or their 15 seconds of entrench on a hrm how long is that cooldown? 45 seconds? Or something? What about the fact that my ranged interrupt can only be used on other mercs, sorcs, and operative healers? Not snipers? Or that true escape? Woot super roll!. What about leap immunity? Or a ranged root? Or the knife?

 

Sure we got everything we needed. But based on that perspective snipers need to be nerfed to the ground.

 

How about we take the electro-net from you, your heavy armor and all your extra healing abilities? See what i did there?

 

RDPS classes and specs are different.

Edited May 3, 2013 by NoTomorrow

[T-Assassin]

Mercs are right on par with MM snipers damage wise. They pretty much got everything they needed.

 

Interesting.

 

I would love to hear more, backed up with facts, evidence, RANKED WZ accounts, and perhaps even a few eye witness accounts as well.

 

As a long time Merc (early beta Firebug), as well as server first BM (deception Assy), and 2 other VR 50's (MM/sniper and VG/Assault) PRE 1.2, MY experiences in COMPETITIVE PvP are quite the opposite.

 

In non-ranked (PUG PvP, if you will) PvP, my Merc can be quite successful, even top damage 98% of the time!

 

However, when faced with opponents that execute communication, strategy, teamwork, and win-based objectives, Mercs are SEVERLY lacking behind classes such as the afore mentioned MM Sniper.

 

I, as well as many other intelligent and competitive PvP'rs know, and have proven throughout this post, through gameplay, beta testing, and sans variable metrics (dummy testing, OPs, PvP) that Merc is NOT on par with MM Snipers. Far from it.

 

[Ryvirath]

Oh boy, I LOL'd hard on that one.

 

Sure, they are both averaging 1k-1400 dps in normal warzones for me. In terms of group utility, merc can offheal, rez, instant 8 second CC, and electronet (a far more valuable tool for focusing then shatter shot). They also trivially pass around armor debuffs. It doesn't matchlethality snipers by an stretch of the imagination, but it's about as appealing as an MM sniper. People are just so used to mercs being bad they apparently can't accept them as good. You shouldn't lose a 1v1 fight to anything but an assassin as long as electronet is off CD.

 

I don't know what more you want.

[Osxoba]

How about we take the electro-net from you, your heavy armor and all your extra healing abilities? See what i did there?

 

RDPS classes and specs are different.

EN: Long cooldown for a 9 second ability which can easily be mitigated and broken out of. Not only that, but to a turret class like sniper, it's lol worthy.

Heavy Armor: lol, not as big of a perk as it sounds.

Extra healing? Unless you're specced as CM, healing is really not very good. It's slow and subpar. Only kolto bomb is good for on the run, and maybe a TO with two Med Probes, but that requires us to burn a cooldown.

[T-Assassin]

Sure, they are both averaging 1k-1400 dps in normal warzones for me. In terms of group utility, merc can offheal, rez, instant 8 second CC, and electronet (a far more valuable tool for focusing then shatter shot). They also trivially pass around armor debuffs. It doesn't matchlethality snipers by an stretch of the imagination, but it's about as appealing as an MM sniper. People are just so used to mercs being bad they apparently can't accept them as good. You shouldn't lose a 1v1 fight to anything but an assassin as long as electronet is off CD.

 

I don't know what more you want.

 

Cool!

 

Mercs can win a 1v1 every 90 seconds, based off a CD.

 

I'm really at a loss for words after that...

[Ryvirath]

 

Cool!

 

Mercs can win a 1v1 every 90 seconds, based off a CD.

 

I'm really at a loss for words after that...

 

Why would that put you at a loss for words? Because it's true? Every class wins and loses on CDs.

Edited May 3, 2013 by Ryvirath

[Osxoba]

Sure, they are both averaging 1k-1400 dps in normal warzones for me. In terms of group utility, merc can offheal, rez, instant 8 second CC, and electronet (a far more valuable tool for focusing then shatter shot). They also trivially pass around armor debuffs. It doesn't matchlethality snipers by an stretch of the imagination, but it's about as appealing as an MM sniper. People are just so used to mercs being bad they apparently can't accept them as good. You shouldn't lose a 1v1 fight to anything but an assassin as long as electronet is off CD.

 

I don't know what more you want.

Rez? You know people that rez in a WZ? Off healing not as good or efficient as it seems.

Electronet is not an I Win button by any means. Any good opponent 1v1 will CC you right back to prevent you from attacking while they are EN. Also, a good player will interrupt us plenty, easily shutting us down, especially operatives. Which instant 8 second CC are you speaking of anyways?

[T-Assassin]

How about we take the electro-net from you, your heavy armor and all your extra healing abilities? See what i did there?

 

RDPS classes and specs are different.

 

I've got a MM sniper and a Pyro Merc...both since launch.

 

While I HIGHLY prefer the Merc playstyle (I find it quite easy and intuitive), MM Sniper brings much more to the table.

 

Minus healing (which should be a non issue in competitive PvP, i.e. teamwork, strategy, you get it...), Sniper has many more tools to bring to a TEAM.

 

I don't consider PvP to be 1v1 in SWTOR...it's a team game, and Sniper is just a better "team player" class versus that of a Merc (DPS)

[T-Assassin]

Why would that put you at a loss for words? Because it's true? Every class wins and loses on CDs.

 

I HIGHLY disagree.

 

Perhaps we are not understanding each other.

 

Are you talking in a competitive, team atmosphere? or you talking 1v1?

 

1v1 is NOT PvP.

[texoc]

...and Sniper is just a better "team player" class versus that of a Merc (DPS)

 

You serious?

[PerinnAybara]

.,,,fdasfsa Edited May 3, 2013 by PerinnAybara

[T-Assassin]

You serious?

 

TOTALLY.

 

Serious question to all those that disagree.

 

You're making up your COMPETITVE PvP team. The objective of this team is to WIN...

 

why would you take a Merc DPS over a Sniper DPS, and why?

[Ryvirath]

I HIGHLY disagree.

 

Perhaps we are not understanding each other.

 

Are you talking in a competitive, team atmosphere? or you talking 1v1?

 

1v1 is NOT PvP.

 

I'll be fair. Electronet is the best ability in the game and its existence is the main reason why you'd want a merc over MM sniper. With coordination you should come away with a healer kill every time it's off CD. It can not be cleansed, it prevents escape tools (cloak, bubble, speed) and to boot is the highest damage dot in the game.

Edited May 3, 2013 by Ryvirath

[texoc]

TOTALLY.

 

Serious question to all those that disagree.

 

You're making up your COMPETITVE PvP team. The objective of this team is to WIN...

 

why would you take a Merc DPS over a Sniper DPS, and why?

 

Because ENet is a garanteed kill vs Operative Healers/Sage Healers.

 

ENet buys you time in hutball.

 

Offheals can save/help Healers or make the merc/mando jump into the healer role if 1 Healer gets a DC, in Voidstar defense for additional staying power or help out a buddy in a split situation.

 

In combat revive.

 

Better overall AOE than marksman and Df specced slingers.

 

Higher Burst.

 

and so on...

[cashogy_reborn]

electronet is *not* the best ability in the game......

 

it does not prevent the target from being healed, guarded, pulled, or you and/or your teammates being taunted. in a group setting it can be a very good ability for keeping someone from escaping, but it is far from the "I-WIN" button that everyone is making it out to be. and it can be removed w/ the CC breaker like any other form of CC.

 

its not a guaranteed kill. PvP is not just a series of 1v1s......

 

 

that being said, mando/merc is much better off than pre 2.0 (at least gunny/arsenal). our burst rotation no longer exceeds TTK. we have a tool to escape from dangerous situations. we have a group oriented utility skill. in general our mobility is way up.

 

does that mean there are still not issues with the class? no, it doesnt. the cooldowns of some of our utility skills are not inline with the benefit they provide, and im hoping that gets addressed.

 

that and the crit nerf is a pain for mando/merc, but that is not unique to us.

Edited May 3, 2013 by cashogy_reborn

[T-Assassin]

I'll be fair. Electronet is the best ability in the game and its existence is the main reason why you'd want a merc over MM sniper. With coordination you should come away with a healer kill every time it's off CD. It can not be cleansed, it prevents escape tools (cloak, bubble, speed) and to boot is the highest damage dot in the game.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to fight here. I appreciate the discussion.

 

The reason you'd pick Merc > Sniper is their ability to kill a healer every 1:30? That just doesn't seem like much of a selling point.

 

Could the killing of the healer be done in a much more effective and team benefiting way? (as a deception assy and IA/Op my specialty was killing healers. Especially, rewarding when killing them in the middle of their group )

 

If i were picking a PvP team, not a single Merc, dps or heals, would be in the starting line-up.

[T-Assassin]

Because ENet is a garanteed kill vs Operative Healers/Sage Healers.

 

-False.

 

ENet buys you time in hutball.

 

-useful every 1:30. other classes with pulls, roots, and slows on lower CD)

 

Offheals can save/help Healers or make the merc/mando jump into the healer role if 1 Healer gets a DC, in Voidstar defense for additional staying power or help out a buddy in a split situation.

 

-Not being a dick, if my healer couldn't keep me healed, and I had to have a DPS off heal, I'd be finding another healer. Granted, I've been spoiled by playing with some of the best healers, but...I am talking COMPETITIVE...not minor league PUGs.

 

In combat revive.

 

-It had better be the last button I push. (I'm not a dirge, I'm DPS)

 

Better overall AOE than marksman and Df specced slingers.

 

-I cannot argue, as I have not done any valuable damage testing in months.

 

Higher Burst.

 

-False. (pyro)

 

and so on...

 

-I don't have the "so on" button. must be a 55 thing. (I know...sarcasm. "so on" doesn't provide any REAL info...

 

I do get what you are saying, but I can do each of those better with other classes...

 

*EDIT* most of your points seem to be fail-safes, what-ifs, and highly situational based. If I'm bringing a DPS, guess what I want them doing...

Edited May 3, 2013 by T-Assassin

[ArchangelLBC]

Marksmanship snipers are better than Gunnery commandos for one simple reason: Cover.

 

The ability to essentially free cast at anything in your line of sight without worrying about interrupts, leaps, or pulls, is a huge huge thing. It's what separates snipers, especially marksmanship, from every other ranged turret class. Gunnery can be gotten to, shutdown and killed.

 

We're definitely better than we were pre-2.0, even comparatively, but that's not the same thing as ranked viable. Yes if someone decides we're a free kill we can make them pay cash for it every 90 seconds, but keep in mind if you're saving electronet for that then you won't have it when your team needs it (which is fine in regs where no real coordination that can exploit it can be used). In ranked, I would be telling healers to save CC breaks for electronet to be honest. It basically announces to the world that you intend to focus them right then and there. CC break it to cleanse and get out of there. All the coordination which makes electronet so powerful can also be used to counter it.

 

Meanwhile you have a DPS who can easily be shut down the rest of the time, and why take them over a DPS that can essentially pew pew with impunity from the back?