Legacy Wide datacrons

[Eitetsu]

Allowing players to receive the bonuses for datacrons on a given character that did NOT actually find the datacrons is the same principle as allowing a player to create max level characters with BIS gear, all companions at max affection and all companion unlocks.

 

They're hardly the same. Datacrons are a bonus. They are optional. Just like getting the new companions--they are optional additions to your character. Which is why, once you get them, you can pay credits or cartel coins to unlock them on additional characters without having to do the legwork.

 

Leveling and acquiring BIS gear on the hand is NOT optional if you want to play endgame. This must occur, and is of course how the game keeps rolling. No one expects the ability to instantly create a NiM-ready character for cartel coins or in-game credits, and to compare it to unlocking optional features is absurd.

[JacenHallis]

Allowing players to receive the bonuses for datacrons on a given character that did NOT actually find the datacrons is the same principle as allowing a player to create max level characters with BIS gear, all companions at max affection and all companion unlocks.

Actually, it's more akin to being able to earn commendations on one character and then sending the gear to another character that didn't earn it. We can do that already with Legacy-bound gear.

 

Regarding your suggestion that legacy datacron unlock require legacy 50, I remind you of the fiasco surrounding Treek, who initially required legacy 40 to unlock. The "have to have it now" crowd complained, begged and cried "UNFAIR. I WANT IT NOW". The result is that a player can BYPASS a legitimate and fair legacy requirement just by throwing money at BW.

This is incorrect. The wording to explain the presence of Treek in the cartel market pretty much outright said that Treek was meant for the cartel market, and that the ability to buy with credits through the legacy window was the alternate method.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6494139#post6494139

 

"Having her be a part of the Legacy system allowed an avenue for players to get her without spending any of their Cartel Coins if they wanted!"

[Ratajack]

This is incorrect. The wording to explain the presence of Treek in the cartel market pretty much outright said that Treek was meant for the cartel market, and that the ability to buy with credits through the legacy window was the alternate method.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6494139#post6494139

 

"Having her be a part of the Legacy system allowed an avenue for players to get her without spending any of their Cartel Coins if they wanted!"

 

Is that statement dev spin to try to defuse the situation? Who knows?

 

I DO know that Treek was on the PTR with a legacy 40 requirement BEFORE a word was said about the CM. There was not even a whisper about Treek being a CM item until AFTER the "have to have it now crowd" starting complaining and whining about having to wait as they did not have legacy 40 and "it would take months to reach legacy 40" and "it's not fair. I want my ewok now".

 

Had Treek truly been intended for the CM all along, the devs could have simply made a statement about Treek BEFORE she hit the PTR. They did NOT, however.

[MajikMyst]

Looks like the supporters far outweigh the non-supporters.

 

Please add to this the game Bioware. Thank you.

 

We do not make the rules here.. We can make all the suggestions we want.. But is always up to Bioware..

 

I would say that Makeb largely answered that question.. The new datacrons were pretty fun to get.. Especially the +10 to endurance one..

 

There is no point to making them legacy.. There is no reason, and there is no logical argument.. That is simply a fact.. They are there for those that put forth the effort to get them.. If you don't, then you live without the stats.. Legacy was never created as a means to allow people to side step playing the game.. If you are bored and don't want to get the datacrons, then don't.. Nobody is forcing you.. But your boredom is no reason to change the game.. It just isn't..

 

Are you to bored to do dailies?? Are to bored to do Warzones?? Are to bored to run Ops or Flash Points?? It is the same principle.. You want that awesome gear, you want those credits, you got to earn them.. The datacrons are no different..

 

Do them or don't do them, is your choice..

[Ratajack]

Actually, it's more akin to being able to earn commendations on one character and then sending the gear to another character that didn't earn it. We can do that already with Legacy-bound gear.

 

 

 

That is incorrect. You are only earning ONE piece of gear. What you do with that piece of gear IS up to you, true. You can use it for that character, or you can pay to rip out the mods and send the mods to an alt. The fact remains, though, that it is still only ONE piece of gear, not a piece of gear for every character you have.

[MajikMyst]

Actually, it's more akin to being able to earn commendations on one character and then sending the gear to another character that didn't earn it. We can do that already with Legacy-bound gear.

 

Actually your statement is incorrect..

 

You run something and you get a piece of gear.. You then send the mods to an alt.. You are only dealing with a single piece of loot.. There is no other piece of loot that you can send mods to another alt.. If you want to do that then you are going to have to earn that piece of loot again.. In fact you will have to earn that piece of loot for every character you want to send the mods too..

 

Which is exactly the same as collecting the datacrons on each character.. If you want all your toons to have the stats, then you got to put forth the effort..

 

Again.. There is no reason that datacrons should be legacy.. The choice not to pick them up or collect them should have the consequence of not having the stats they provide.. Those that put forth the effort should be happy that they have those extra stats.. Making them legacy is a lazy mans way out.. They just want something for free and with no effort.. There is just no reason for that.. It is of no benefit to the game..

[MajikMyst]

This is incorrect. The wording to explain the presence of Treek in the cartel market pretty much outright said that Treek was meant for the cartel market, and that the ability to buy with credits through the legacy window was the alternate method.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6494139#post6494139

 

"Having her be a part of the Legacy system allowed an avenue for players to get her without spending any of their Cartel Coins if they wanted!"

 

Again.. You are incorrect..

 

Purchasing her with credits requires legacy level 40.. She has to be unlocked at last once.. Once unlocked You can spend an additional 700cc to purchase Treek for your entire account.. Or pay 300k credits on a per character basis..

 

Sure.. You can purchase her for 1 million credits and 300k per character after that.. Assuming your legacy level is 40.. I have not read anything that says they have removed that.. I just checked the droid vendor.. The contracts for 1 million credits do still require legacy level 40..

 

I am not sure what it is your are trying to say.. Treek being for the Cartel Market is irrelevant.. There has always been to ways to get Treek.. CC or Credits.

 

To be clear.. You can NOT buy Treek from the legacy window unless she is unlocked on at least 1 character.. That means 1 million credits to the droid or 2100 CC to the Cartel Market..

[Ryric]

Still in favor of this.

Still have yet to see an actual reason this shouldn't be implemented.

 

"Lazy" is not a counterargument unless you also hate quick travel.

"Getting datacrons is easy" is not a counterargument - if they are that easy to get then who cares?

"You might as well allow the creation of 55 BiS characters" is such blatant hyperbole I don't even know where to begin.

"Getting something for free" is a strawman - no one is talking about free, just about sharing bonuses between characters, likely for a CM fee. By earning them on one character you've proven you can get to them - so this is just a matter of saving time. Just like quick travel or speeder piloting or double XP.

[AshlaBoga]

Looks like the supporters far outweigh the non-supporters.

 

Please add to this the game Bioware. Thank you.

 

Supporters definitely exceed the nay-sayers. BW, add this feature please.

[MajikMyst]

Supporters definitely exceed the nay-sayers. BW, add this feature please.

 

Actually more people don't want it.. But that is an irrelevant point.. If you can't come up with a valid point on how it will improve the game and not just be a freebee for the lazy players of the game, then you have an argument.. Until then.. You have no reason and no argument..

 

Just because people jump off a bridge, doesn't mean you should too.. Didn't you hear that when you were growing up?? There isn't a single reason to change datacrons to legacy.. It is a bad idea.. If people do not wish to get the stats then they should live with out them.. Even if everyone supports a bad idea, it is still a bad idea and shouldn't be implemented..

[MajikMyst]

Still in favor of this.

Still have yet to see an actual reason this shouldn't be implemented.

 

"Lazy" is not a counterargument unless you also hate quick travel.

"Getting datacrons is easy" is not a counterargument - if they are that easy to get then who cares?

"You might as well allow the creation of 55 BiS characters" is such blatant hyperbole I don't even know where to begin.

"Getting something for free" is a strawman - no one is talking about free, just about sharing bonuses between characters, likely for a CM fee. By earning them on one character you've proven you can get to them - so this is just a matter of saving time. Just like quick travel or speeder piloting or double XP.

 

Lazy is a valid argument and quick travel is irrelevant..

They are easy to get.. As for who cares?? How about you ask the people that are to lazy to get them??

You missed the point.. Legacy datacrons is essentially free loot.. You get a piece of loot from an op, now all your other toons will have it too.. Get it?? Hence legacy..

 

No getting something for free is not strawman it is an accurate argument you do not want to address.. You want to earn the datacrons on a single character and then have them on all your other ones for free.. What was that about 55 BiS characters??

 

Bottom line is, if you don't want to play the game then don't... You have failed to come up with a single reason that it should be allowed..

 

Being tired or bored of getting them is not a reason to make them legacy, and that is the only reason given from your camp.. The datacrons are there for the people that get them.. They are there for the people that put forth the time and effort into getting them.. If you do not want to put forth that time and effort.. Then don't get them... But you should not get the stats or codexes they provide for nothing.. You want them then you have to earn them.. On every character.. You want your Arcanian gear?? Then you are going to have to earn them.. For every character..

 

Again you are missing the point.. Quick travel, speeder piloting, and double XP are all irrelevant to this topic.. Sure, they save time.. Two of them save travel time.. None of them actually gives your character stats, and all are irrelevant..

 

You are required to play the game to get the datacrons.. Just like you play the game to get Warzone Comms or an Operation.. If you don't want the stats that the datacrons provide then don't get them.. If you do want them, then go get them.. That choice should have a consequence.. People should not get them for free because they are to lazy to get them again.. Just like gear from Comms or Ops.. If you want to gear up all your characters.. You are going to have to run the warzones, do the Ops, run the weeklies, run the dailies, or run the flashpoints on all your of characters.. Not just run them on one a single character and then have all your alts get the gear they need because of the magical power called legacy.. That is not what Legacy was designed for and not what it was meant for.. If you want the datacrons then get them.. If you want the stats they provide, then get them.. Otherwise live without the stats... Just like you would live without the gear you are to lazy to get on your 12th toon.. That is the choice you make and must live with.. Legacy is not some magical power that give you stuff for free..

 

There is no reason to have legacy datacrons.. It is a bad idea, and people need to live with the choices they make..

Edited August 24, 2013 by MajikMyst

[iankalo]

And if you think the leveling will be too easy with all collected datacrons , make them to be active after you reach level 55. But they need to be legacy wide!

 

PS: I jumped 2 hrs on Nar Shaddaa and I dont want to do this again with all my 8+ characters .

Edited August 24, 2013 by iankalo

[MajikMyst]

PS: I jumped 2 hrs on Nar Shaddaa and I dont want to do this again with all my 8+ characters .

 

So you are saying that with you, practice doesn't make things easier??

 

I have got all the datacrons on at least 5 characters and working on a sixth as I level.. So far I have one shot every datacron, and I am about to leave Hoth..

 

Sorry.. With most folks, practice makes perfect..

 

Still not a reason to make them legacy..

[WooliestWorm]

Actually your statement is incorrect..

 

You run something and you get a piece of gear.. You then send the mods to an alt.. You are only dealing with a single piece of loot.. There is no other piece of loot that you can send mods to another alt.. If you want to do that then you are going to have to earn that piece of loot again.. In fact you will have to earn that piece of loot for every character you want to send the mods too..

 

Which is exactly the same as collecting the datacrons on each character.. If you want all your toons to have the stats, then you got to put forth the effort..

 

Again.. There is no reason that datacrons should be legacy.. The choice not to pick them up or collect them should have the consequence of not having the stats they provide.. Those that put forth the effort should be happy that they have those extra stats.. Making them legacy is a lazy mans way out.. They just want something for free and with no effort.. There is just no reason for that.. It is of no benefit to the game..

 

On the other hand if it cost cc to unlock it would be more or less identical to the collections system, being able to unlock access to +41 crystals, adaptable speeders, full sets of mod-able gear and weapons and various other items for any character you care to claim it on for a few cc. It's a convenience feature and quite a few of those have been popping up utilising cc lately, not sure if I agree or not but legacy datacrons definitely aren't out of the question.

[iankalo]

So you are saying that with you, practice doesn't make things easier??

 

I have got all the datacrons on at least 5 characters and working on a sixth as I level.. So far I have one shot every datacron, and I am about to leave Hoth..

 

Sorry.. With most folks, practice makes perfect..

 

Still not a reason to make them legacy..

 

Infact I dont need to get them on my alt characters. I just finished all class stories just for the story and achievements. But one day , if I want to play with another char , I dont want to jump again. Its not about jumping , just laziness

Edited August 25, 2013 by iankalo

[Ratajack]

On the other hand if it cost cc to unlock it would be more or less identical to the collections system, being able to unlock access to +41 crystals, adaptable speeders, full sets of mod-able gear and weapons and various other items for any character you care to claim it on for a few cc. It's a convenience feature and quite a few of those have been popping up utilising cc lately, not sure if I agree or not but legacy datacrons definitely aren't out of the question.

 

The collections system is mainly limited to items purchased via the cartel market, whether those items be found in cartel packs or purchased directly.

 

The datacron stat bonuses are also NOT physical items.

 

You can call it a convenience feature, but it really boils down to laziness-the aversion to the effort required to actually EARN those bonuses on each character. If you want the stat bonuses, find the datacrons. It's that simple.

[Ratajack]

Infact I dont need to get them on my alt characters. I just finished all class stories just for the story and achievements. But one day , if I want to play with another char , I dont want to jump again. Its not about jumping , just laziness

 

There we have it, folks. An admission of the true reason why people are requesting this.

[iankalo]

There we have it, folks. An admission of the true reason why people are requesting this.

 

You are right. That is the exactly reason for this threath laziness...

Edited August 25, 2013 by iankalo

[Ryric]

There we have it, folks. An admission of the true reason why people are requesting this.

 

Why else would anybody request any convenience feature besides laziness?

Speeder piloting is laziness.

Quick travel is laziness.

Double XP is laziness. Heck, all the XP boosts are.

Legacy Hk is laziness.

Buying things off the GTN instead of getting random drops is laziness.

Spacebarring conversations is laziness.

Every single convenience feature exists to spare someone the time from doing a repetitive task they may find boring, whether it be farm for drops or walk between missions. Legacy datacrons would be no different.

[Ratajack]

Why else would anybody request any convenience feature besides laziness?

Speeder piloting is laziness.

Quick travel is laziness.

Double XP is laziness. Heck, all the XP boosts are.

Legacy Hk is laziness.

Buying things off the GTN instead of getting random drops is laziness.

Spacebarring conversations is laziness.

Every single convenience feature exists to spare someone the time from doing a repetitive task they may find boring, whether it be farm for drops or walk between missions. Legacy datacrons would be no different.

 

Wrong.

 

If I pilot a speeder on my assassin from the GTN on drummond kass to the spaceport, my mercenary doesn't go to the spaceport.

If I quick travel on my assassin, my mercenary doesn't move.

If I earn extra XP on my assassin, my mercenary doesn't get any XP.

If I complete the quest for HK-51 on my operative, my assassin does not automatically get HK-51. If I purchase HK-51 for my assassin, my mercenary doesn't get him.

 

Everything you mentioned only affects the character you are actually playing at the time. Asking to put forth a modicum of effort on a SINGLE character, but gain the stat bonuses on every character is far different.

[Ryric]

Wrong.

 

If I pilot a speeder on my assassin from the GTN on drummond kass to the spaceport, my mercenary doesn't go to the spaceport.

If I quick travel on my assassin, my mercenary doesn't move.

If I earn extra XP on my assassin, my mercenary doesn't get any XP.

If I complete the quest for HK-51 on my operative, my assassin does not automatically get HK-51. If I purchase HK-51 for my assassin, my mercenary doesn't get him.

 

Everything you mentioned only affects the character you are actually playing at the time. Asking to put forth a modicum of effort on a SINGLE character, but gain the stat bonuses on every character is far different.

 

See folks, this is a classic example of the logical fallacy called "shifting the goalposts." Ratajack criticizes the idea for being about laziness, and when I address his claim with counterarguments, he ignores my arguments and switches to a completely different argument about copying bonuses. This is fairly representative of the vocal minority (honestly guys there's only about 4 or 5 of you) arguing against the legacy datacron idea - they don't have a coherent reason to deny the change, so they resort to an online gish gallop. Watch as they divert away from their new points once those are addressed (actually I'd be pleased if they wouldn't but I'm not sure they know how to rationally debate).

 

Based on your last statement about HK, I can only assume that you'd be okay with legacy datacrons if you had to pay per character to share them? That would be exactly analogous to HK - do the mission line once, use CC or credits to share with other characters on a per need basis.

 

For everyone against copying, would it be okay if I could transfer bonuses between characters? Only one character would have them at a time. I'd just mail them around like an armor set in legacy gear. That would be fine right?

 

See, there I looked at the content of their arguments and directly addressed their points. Let's see if they can do the same and then we'd actually be having a discussion instead of whatever it is we're doing.

Edited August 25, 2013 by Ryric

[JacenHallis]

Purchasing her with credits requires legacy level 40.. She has to be unlocked at last once.. Once unlocked You can spend an additional 700cc to purchase Treek for your entire account.. Or pay 300k credits on a per character basis..

I'm well aware of how to purchase her and unlock her. For the record, I paid the million for one character and then I unlocked her on the account for 700 CC.

 

But all of that has nothing to do with what I wrote. I said that the intention was for her to be a cartel market item. The Legacy option was the alternate method. The Legacy level requirement has nothing at all to do with the intentions of the developers as revealed by their own posts.

[MajikMyst]

But all of that has nothing to do with what I wrote. I said that the intention was for her to be a cartel market item. The Legacy option was the alternate method. The Legacy level requirement has nothing at all to do with the intentions of the developers as revealed by their own posts.

 

But again.. What does Cartel Market item mean... It was always intended that she could be unlocked on other characters via legacy once unlocked on one character.. The method for unlocking her for the first time hasn't changed either.. You can by using Cartel Coins or credits.. That isn't new.. So what point are you making by saying she is a Cartel Market item..

 

This whole idea that she was a Cartel Market item.. What difference does that make and who cares??

 

What does that have to do with datacrons??

 

I am just asking here, because you don't seem to be making any points..

[MajikMyst]

See folks, this is a classic example of the logical fallacy called "shifting the goalposts." .

 

Yes it is.. And you really should stop moving the goal post and stop trying to compare getting datacrons with a companion..

 

Can we stay on topic and discuss the datacrons.. HK-51 is irrelevant.. Him being accessible from legacy for your alts is irrelevant..

 

HK is a companion and HK does not add stats to your character.. It is a closer comparison to compare datacrons to gear..

 

If you want the loot then you must put forth the effort... If you want the loot for all your alts, then you are still going to have to earn them for each character.. Just like datacrons..

 

How about you explain to all of us why people are ok with running countless numbers of warzones to gear their many toons, or do countless number of dailies, flashpoints, and Ops to gear their characters.. But getting the datacrons ONCE per character is such a burdon and a chore.. I really would like to understand that..

Edited August 25, 2013 by MajikMyst

[MajikMyst]

Infact I dont need to get them on my alt characters. I just finished all class stories just for the story and achievements. But one day , if I want to play with another char , I dont want to jump again. Its not about jumping , just laziness

 

But see what is hard for me to swallow is, why is it ok for people to do countless numbers of dailies, Ops, Flashpoints, Warzones, to gear our characters.. But getting the datacrons ONCE per character is just to hard.. In your case not even once per character.. There is just no logic there..

 

If you don't want to jump again.. That is fine and your choice.. But that should not be a reason to change the game so that you can have them without actually getting them.. Because the same logic can be used on any set of gear.. I am tired of running Ops.. Can't I just run it once and get all the coms and gear for all my characters?? That is essentially what everyone is asking for.. 'I did it once why should I have to do it again??' Welcome to an MMO.. The point is to play the game to get the rewards... Which means getting the datacrons.. Legacy is not meant to allow people to skip parts of the game or get stuff for free when they decide they don't want to do it again.. If you don't want to get them then live with the consequences of not having the stats..