How will level sync work with planets that have multiple (non-instanced) level ranges? For example, Ord Mantell has an area for Jedi Knights who have just finished Coruscant, with level 15 foes. Hoth, Nar Shadaa, and Alderaan have their bonus series areas which have higher level mobs as well. Are all these areas being reduced to the level of the base planet? Will the level sync somehow be dynamic and change when we enter certain regions on worlds?

The point you always miss is that laziness is a valid reason to request a basic QoL change. There is no "non-lazy" reason for them to have reduced the cooldown on quick travel, or to have allowed speeders in spaceports, or any other system that just saves time. Which is all a system like this would do - save time. I don't see you campaigning to remove quick travel because it lets you skip content (trash mobs), but I guarantee you I get a lot more permanent stats from QT than I ever will from legacy datacrons.

Fundamentally, datacron hunting is about going to an in game location and clicking a target. That's it. It's the exact same every time you do it, no matter what character class you play. It doesn't care about skill, level, or the RNG. If you've done it once you can literally do it again the exact same way with as many other characters as you like. Sitting on the balloon with my tank powertech is exactly the same as sitting on the balloon with my dps scoundrel. Other game content like operations, dailies, flashpoints, PVP, and so forth all vary based on what you are playing, group composition, the RNG, and so forth. There is none of that with datacrons. Redoing them has exactly as much gameplay value as walking back to base instead of using QT. Just so we're on the same page, I'm not advocating making this cheap. Personally I'd require legacy 50, datacron master, and about 5 million credits/5000 cc per character to unlock. Make people have to really think about buying it.

Still attacking the motivation and not the idea. Sigh. What you don't seem to get is that the motivation of the people who want this doesn't matter. We could want legacy datacrons because it helps us foreclose orphanages and kick puppies and it still wouldn't be relevant to the merit of the idea. Also, you're basically wrong here anyway. I already have the datacrons on all my alts. I get them while leveling as Petfish suggests. This unlock would be of little value to me - but it's still a good idea. Even if I don't personally benefit from it.

Yes really. Datacrons are located at locations. Making them legacy wide is equivalent to granting QT to all those locations(well, except weaker, as you can't actually travel there). You've already been there once.

This is what I mean about no valid counterarguments. No one wants something for nothing. Try arguing against the actual idea. ...and this is arguing against the person presenting the idea. It's not actually addressing the idea, it's an attempt to deflect argument onto the opposing person and draw attention away from the actual argument. It is also an invalid argument. But here's an argument for legacy wide datacrons anyway. By creating an unlock, you allow a player to do activities they enjoy (garnering XP and credits) to substitute for an activity that many do not enjoy(fighting lag, bad clipping, and random teleports back). As such individuals would have already acquired all the datacrons, they would simply be exchanging credits for time - it's in all ways functionally equivalent to buying off the cooldown on QT.

Eh, I'm still in favor of legacy-wide stats from datacrons. It's still a good idea and there still haven't been any valid arguments against it. If people didn't want this the thread would die. It's not the anti-legacy datacrons people who keep reviving it. Some sort of in-game checklist would be a nice feature too. Right now I actually use paper to records which characters have which datacrons.

I wants them. They are adorable and I would totally buy them. If you don't know what hoojibs are, they are these telepathic bunny-things from the old 80s Marvel Star Wars comic series.

As has been pointed out, the magnitude of the boosts is not really an effective argument for either side - if the boost is minor it doesn't matter whether you get it or don't, and if the boost is significant then it's an annoying time waster that you have to do, but shouldn't be made easier. Basically that argument cuts both ways so it's not a good one. Still in favor of legacy datacrons. There are still no good arguments against adding a feature which basically only saves time. The requested feature only shares datacrons you would have already gotten - meaning you've proven you can do them - so it's just a matter of time to get them again. That makes the request no different than something like quick travel - a time saving QoL feature. It isn't free. Everyone who proposes this understands there will be some sort of cost. It isn't the same as giving out BiS gear for free. Holy hyperbole Batman. Questing for endgame gear is part of the core PvE experience - redoing a jumping puzzle for the 7th time really isn't. We already have the ability to get an endgame gear piece and share it between all our characters - it's called bound to legacy gear. I can get raiding armor and have all my characters use it. I can't play two characters at once so the fact that two can't have it at the same time is immaterial. It doesn't have any more to do with entitlement or laziness than asking for speeders to work in spaceports and orbital stations did. The only vaguely reasonable argument against this is "I don't want it so I don't want the devs wasting time on it." Which is selfish but at least it's a valid argument.

Guys, the people against this have proven themselves immune to logic in multiple other threads. The fact is that this would be a good QoL change that would fit nicely in with the legacy system. And I say that as a player who has earned all the datacrons on 5 characters. Everybody but Ratajack sees his argument for the strawman it is. I have to presume he never uses quick travel because it's "exactly the same as free BiS gear." This proposed feature is as innocuous as speeders in spaceports.

They exist but you may have to be Pub side to get them - there are offhand blasters for gunslingers.

I hate this boss fight. The basic idea of the mechanics to do it aren't too bad- kill the refueling droids, blow up the generator, or even just quickly dps the archon down. But every time I fight the guy it's the bugs that kill me. Untargettable refueling droids. Droids or the archon appear to be in one place but the game thinks they are somewhere else. Archon starts the fight full of energy stacks and opens with the mega laser. <-that one required an instance reset I've soloed him twice and done it once with a group. Both solo endeavors were an exercise in frustration due to the particulars of this fight. Even his non-mega laser damage is not insignificant to a fresh 53-55 with no endgame gear, which is an entirely possible situation for a player who just play straight through.

So like probably many others, I started trying to do ranked WZs when they announced the season 1 rewards. I had put off doing them because I didn't have a full expertise character until recently and I didn't want to bring down my team by being undergeared, But so far I've managed to do 5 ranked warzones total because they pop so infrequently. It doesn't matter when I log on...evenings, weekends, it's always over an hour for a single pop. I've basically given up on getting my 10 matches to even get a ranking. However, I never have a problem getting a normal warzone to happen. I figure most other people interested in ranked on my server either have the ranking they want already, or like me they are giving up on ranked and just not queuing. It may be possible that if there were a daily/weekly to encourage ranked WZs that they would see a lot more activity. It's kind of sad that it's faster and easier to accumulate ranked comms by getting normal comms and converting them, than it is to do actual ranked matches.

To be honest, yes the anti-arguments do sound a bit like that. An actual rational position in the anti-crowd is tough to find. Let me summarize my understanding of the anti-arguments and why I think they amount to "herp derp pbbbthhh." -"You only want them because you're lazy." An ad hominem attack on the person desiring the legacy benefit. Does not actually address the proposed change itself, but simply dismisses it out of hand based on the perceived motivations of those asking for it. Not a rational counterargument. -"You might as well give out free 55s/BiS gear to everybody." A ridiculous strawman. No one has shown these things to be even remotely equivalent, it's just asserted with no support. This argument really hurts your position because it is the one that most looks like "herp derp pbbbthh." Besides, we already have this. It's called bind to legacy gear...I can already earn ops gear, pull the mods, pop it in a legacy piece and now each of my characters can use it. What's that you say? They can't all have it at once? I can't play them all at once so that doesn't matter. I can earn BiS gear once and share it between all my characters if desired. -"Datacrons are easy to get." Some of them are. Some are moderately difficult. Some are a freaking pain in the you-know-what. Those of us who want this perk want it for the tough ones, so this "counterargument" doesn't actually address the reason we ask for this is the first place. It's like saying "we shouldn't have speeders in orbital stations because you can use them in spaceports." No one is asking for this feature because they have trouble collecting the ones on Korriban. -"The stat bonuses are so small it doesn't matter." As you have seen in this thread this argument can be used to show that the issue is unimportant, but not that the idea is bad. Both side use this argument and it doesn't really support either side. -"I don't want this feature and I want the devs to spend their time doing something else." The only rational, valid counterargument I've yet seen. I'm summing my impressions from memory so if I've missed a counterargument please do let me know and I'll directly address it's rationality.

I wish the anti-legacy datacrons people would bother to learn even a little bit about economics. Let me sum up something: Buying something with money is earning it. The whole concept of money is related to delayed barter - I do some work now, I get paid in money, which can be exchanged for unspecified benefits later. So if someone buys a perk with cartel coins they did earn it, they did work for it. They worked at their job, not at the game, but I guess doing actual useful work for society makes them lazy. If someone buys a perk with in-game credits they still had to play the game to earn them. Even "rich" players with tens of millions of credits or more got that way by studying the game and learning the economy, which takes effort. How dare you denigrate these people's effort and work, calling them lazy because their exact choice of how to enjoy their game or their hard-earned money doesn't agree with yours. Nobody had asked for legacy datacrons to just be freely granted; everybody expects there to be some sort of cost like most legacy perks. It just makes the cost of earning them different, not smaller. P.S. Every time you make the argument that players are lazy because they want to buy things with money instead of "earning" them, I wonder...do you buy food with money? I guess you didn't "earn" it unless you grew it yourself from wild seeds, you lazy self-entitled person you. I guess you programmed a copy of this game for yourself because only a lazy player would buy it. Feel free to mentally add examples of every other thing in your life that costs money.

I use the inheritance and birthright gear. Sure, it doesn't have a long lifespan but it's pretty much BiS for levels 15 and 33. Generally I don't see better drops until the low 20s or high 30s, and levelling at that stage is so easy and fast anyway that constantly sending better armor to my alts is an unnecessary treadmill. They could have some improvements, however. The gear is bind to legacy, but it's class restricted . If I have sith warrior legacy gear I can't even use it on a jedi knight alt. Weapons are the most egregious example as most ACs use their own specific weapon. I have 3 bind to legacy sniper rifles, woo. For those of you that don't like the inheritance/birthright tokens, I think they should: -be saleable on the GTN. -be exchangeable for some sort of random item box.

Legacy fast travel, legacy HP/crit/stat bonuses, legacy HK, legacy presence, legacy class buffs... Oh wait, we already have those and hyperbole hasn't destroyed the game! Upthread someone said there are good reasons not to want this. If so, could someone please list them? I've only seen hyperbole about max level characters and entitled whining about laziness. The sheer fact of the matter is, if this is implemented, it will have a cost. If someone spends four hours gathering datacrons on an alt while another player spends four hours doing dailies, then uses the credits to buy a datacron unlock for their alt, then what is the real difference. Remember, as a legacy unlock this would only benefit characters who have already earned the datacrons at least once. The only thing the legacy unlock is saving them is time, and maybe not even that if it's expensive enough. HK costs a million to share to an alt, so I could easily see this unlock being reasonable at 5 million or so. The opponents to this idea(there may actually be 5 people against it now) also don't seem to realize that their counterarguments can be applied to every convenience feature in the game. Try playing a character without using speeders or quick travel. Every moment you delay getting to 55 is a moment you could have playing at 55 getting high end gear and comms...therefore fast travel and speeders help you gain end game stats and gear faster. OMG the sky is falling! It's all over now! The sheer fact of the matter is that this would be a minor convenience for players with many alts, and would be appreciated and enjoyed by the vast majority of players. The only valid counterargument I've seen is that a player with no use for this feature would rather the devs spend their time working on something they find useful, which is fair enough.

Holy crap someone actually came up with a valid counterargument. Only took more than 70 pages of posts. i can actually respect the argument of "I don't want it so I don't want the devs wasting time on it." Fair enough.

Kinda like buying HK with credits after doing the quest once, eh? Sigh. Except that leveling a new character isn't identical to leveling an old one, unless you're playing the exact same build as before. So your premise 2 falls apart. Why exactly are we referring to parts of a game, a recreational activity, as work anyway? I think that says something profound about the attitudes of those who argue(poorly) against the concept of legacy datacrons. Let's pretend they implemented the feature, and it required the datacron master achievement, legacy 50, and either 8000 cartel coins or 500 million credits. Would that be okay? is that enough "work" to make the idea tolerable? If the answer is yes then you have no real logical objections to the concept itself, and we're down to just haggling an appropriate price.

I'm going to break it down for the approximately 3 people against this idea(seriously, look at all the "anti" posts and it's the same posters over and over). I'm going to go through the reasoning step by step in a hopefully clear fashion. The proposed idea is for players who have earned datacrons on one character to be able to share the bonuses via legacy using credits or cartel coins. Therefore said player has already gotten the datacrons once. Therefore they have the knowledge and ability of how to get them. Getting datacrons is universal to all classes and builds; there is no different path to take or strategy to use when getting them on a new character. Therefore getting the datacrons again is merely a matter of spending the time to do so. Therefore the proposed legacy unlock is merely a time saving device, no different than double XP or quick travel. Please do let me know which statement doesn't follow. Oh, as an aside, it's entirely possible(in fact I would recommend) that the unlock be so expensive that it takes more time to earn the credits or RL money(for cartel) than it does to just get the dang things. This is not equivalent to getting a "free" 55 BiS character. Heck this is not proposing a "free" anything, there would still be a cost. The motivations of the people in favor of this have little to do with its merit as an idea. The ease of getting the datacrons also doesn't matter - it's easy to cross a map or fly to fleet but no one complains we shouldn't have QT. This is a proposed time saving convenience feature and nothing more.

I'm also in favor of legacy wide valor and social. I think after this I'm done discussing with Ratajack. He's already admitted that he's conditionally okay with the idea if it has stringent requirements. He keeps using the same tired slippery slope hyperbole, or his idea that laziness is a negative trait when used as a motivation for a convenience feature in a game. If you get some new, non-fallacious, arguments, I'd love to hear them. Otherwise, saying the same logical fallacies over and over doesn't make them magically true.

Both sides of every issue on the internet think the other side is the vocal minority. A quick glance through this thread shows that there are far more unique "for" posters than "against," but that is of course not conclusive. Of course the only "for" argument is that we want it - what else would there be? The only "against" "argument" seems to be "I don't want other people to have it." So there we are. I wish someone in the "against" camp would actually have a grasp of how to argue a subject, and understand things like hyperbole, shifting the goalposts, and economic concepts like opportunity costs. Instead we get the same tired points and fallacies over and over.

You do realize that this paragraph, besides just being an unsubstantiated assertion, is an admission that you would use this system you are arguing so hard against? Hypocrite much? Sure,many people would use it - how is that not an argument for it? New players will have to get them the normal way at least once, and all these people who apparently love collecting them the normal way will keep doing it because according to them it's so easy and fun. Why spend credits or CCs when it only takes a few minutes anyway. Games are about fun, not work. If you are treating this game like its work maybe you should reassess your priorities. If I didn't enjoy dailies, flashpoints, and ops I wouldn't do them. Making my numbers bigger isn't that important. Personally, I'm actually pretty good at datacrons and have gotten a good set of them on 5 characters. See, letting other people play the game the way they like doesn't invalidate my playstyle. Implementing legacy wide datacrons would get most of my guys +4-8 to their stats - but just because the benefit to me is small doesn't make it a bad idea.

Yay you actually did address my arguments! I feel less like I'm talking to 5 walls! Ratajack I am fine with your stated conditions. I'd be ok if it required Legacy 50, datacron Master achievement, 10 mil credits, and still didn't apply until each character hit 55. At least the option would be there. To address stat incerases in the mail, it is possible. My 55 biochem can use a purple stat booster, mail it to another biochem, and that other can get the same stat boost at the same time from the same item! The end is here! Majikmyst, it is not moving the goalposts to discuss points others have brought up. The fallacy you're trying to accuse me of is false analogy - you don't think the comparison is apt. Fair enough, I think the HK comparison is weak; I'm not the one who originally brought it up. To address your points, warzones, ops, fps, and dailies are pretty much what endgame content is. If a players doesn't enjoy doing any of those they should probably start an alt or quit playing. Most players find doing those over and over again fun - and doing that content uses skills that anyone has just from playing the game until that point. Datacrons are different - getting several of them requires platforming and jumping skills which aren't needed anywhere else. Many people find waiting 40 minutes for the balloon, only to miss the jump onto the sandcrawler, to be unfun. Many people find waiting for the slowly moving platforms on Corellia to be unfun. Many people find starting a 10 minute process over because the game has clunky controls to be unfun. I think these people should be able to get through these unfun parts once then not have to repeat them if they'd rather not. You compare this to somehow getting BiS gear or similar things - I think of it more like using XP boosts to skip planetary missions you don't like. Levels= stat points.

See folks, this is a classic example of the logical fallacy called "shifting the goalposts." Ratajack criticizes the idea for being about laziness, and when I address his claim with counterarguments, he ignores my arguments and switches to a completely different argument about copying bonuses. This is fairly representative of the vocal minority (honestly guys there's only about 4 or 5 of you) arguing against the legacy datacron idea - they don't have a coherent reason to deny the change, so they resort to an online gish gallop. Watch as they divert away from their new points once those are addressed (actually I'd be pleased if they wouldn't but I'm not sure they know how to rationally debate). Based on your last statement about HK, I can only assume that you'd be okay with legacy datacrons if you had to pay per character to share them? That would be exactly analogous to HK - do the mission line once, use CC or credits to share with other characters on a per need basis. For everyone against copying, would it be okay if I could transfer bonuses between characters? Only one character would have them at a time. I'd just mail them around like an armor set in legacy gear. That would be fine right? See, there I looked at the content of their arguments and directly addressed their points. Let's see if they can do the same and then we'd actually be having a discussion instead of whatever it is we're doing.