Helig Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) Willing to pay 5k CCs for Legacy datacrons. Got 16 characters, and 5 of them have all relevant datacrons. Not looking forward to doing that 11 more times. A Rishi pig hunt took about 5 hours of my life in total (champs refused to spawn), and the skulls turned out to be bugged. Character-isolated progression looks like more of a remnant of older MMOs that weren't designed around players having multiple alts. SWToR, on the other hand, encourages having alts. Right now, the MMO design seems to be moving towards an account-based progress model (like the new Constellations\Enlightenment\Champion XP in Elder Scrolls), and that's a great quality-of-life thing for players who value their real-time. Edited March 14, 2015 by Helig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therandyman Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Willing to pay 5k CCs for Legacy datacrons. Got 16 characters, and 5 of them have all relevant datacrons. Not looking forward to doing that 11 more times. A Rishi pig hunt took about 5 hours of my life in total (champs refused to spawn), and the skulls turned out to be bugged. Character-isolated progression looks like more of a remnant of older MMOs that weren't designed around players having multiple alts. SWToR, on the other hand, encourages having alts. Right now, the MMO design seems to be moving towards an account-based progress model (like the new Constellations\Enlightenment\Champion XP in Elder Scrolls), and that's a great quality-of-life thing for players who value their real-time. Emphasis added Therein lies the problem. Those who are willing and able to commit more of their real-time to a game always insist on gaining and retaining advantage over those who cannot or will not. Additional example: much (though not all) of the "P2W" ranting is around this very issue - "I spent time to get X; someone with more money than time shouldn't be allowed to get X with money." (The "basement dweller with unlimited time and mom's credit card (unlimited money)" is sufficiently rare as to be a strawman in such arguments.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helig Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Emphasis added Therein lies the problem. Those who are willing and able to commit more of their real-time to a game always insist on gaining and retaining advantage over those who cannot or will not. Additional example: much (though not all) of the "P2W" ranting is around this very issue - "I spent time to get X; someone with more money than time shouldn't be allowed to get X with money." (The "basement dweller with unlimited time and mom's credit card (unlimited money)" is sufficiently rare as to be a strawman in such arguments.) I believe that the devs are wise enough not to take "principled" maximalism (that largely drives this sort of "black-or-white" mentality) seriously. SWToR has already accepted the "shades of gray" of "pay to save time" and "pay for convenience" with CC-bought Legacy unlocks, GSF ship=>Fleet requisition conversion, etc. Account-wide Datacrons would offer an even less numerical advantage than some of what already is implemented in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickious Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Emphasis added Therein lies the problem. Those who are willing and able to commit more of their real-time to a game always insist on gaining and retaining advantage over those who cannot or will not. Thats real life. Whatever put into something is what you get out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) Willing to pay 5k CCs for Legacy datacrons. Got 16 characters, and 5 of them have all relevant datacrons. Not looking forward to doing that 11 more times. Then don't do it. "Problem" solved. As has been pointed out, the magnitude of the boosts is not really an effective argument for either side - if the boost is minor it doesn't matter whether you get it or don't, and if the boost is significant then it's an annoying time waster that you have to do, but shouldn't be made easier. Basically that argument cuts both ways so it's not a good one No, that argument only cuts one way, against the "pro legacy datacron" folks, thus it is an excellent argument because they have no reasonable reply. Edited March 14, 2015 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helig Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) Thats real life. Whatever put into something is what you get out. Better start growing your own food and building your own shelter, then. Edited March 14, 2015 by Helig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Better start growing your own food and building your own shelter, then. Either that or paying others to do those things for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helig Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) Either that or paying others to do those things for him. But you don't want people to be able to pay to get the datacrons that they have already earned. Dat logic. Edited March 14, 2015 by Helig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 But you don't want people to be able to pay to get the datacrons that they have already earned. Dat logic. You're the one trying to compare RL activities with in-game ones. Are you happy that you have incremented the Inapt Internet Analogy counter by 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helig Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 You're the one trying to compare RL activities with in-game ones. Are you happy that you have incremented the Inapt Internet Analogy counter by 1? Read the quote that I was responding to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerkWork Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I just wished there was a way to track which Datacrons I have on each toons as the achievements if I remember correctly are legacy. So I might have the achievement for Korriban ones but I might be missing them on a toon. Wish there was a good in-game way to track them (Codex tracking isn't really useful) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I just wished there was a way to track which Datacrons I have on each toons as the achievements if I remember correctly are legacy. So I might have the achievement for Korriban ones but I might be missing them on a toon. Wish there was a good in-game way to track them (Codex tracking isn't really useful) That's a suggestion many have called for and hardly anyone has opposed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickious Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) Better start growing your own food and building your own shelter, then. Way to hyperbolize. I was referring to a trade off between actually working and being productivity, with casual time spent playing the game, rather than treating the game like a full time job, not trying to go full sustenance living in the outback. Basic economic principle of trade offs. Honestly I don't really care if they add it as legacywide or not. I just found it amusing that you found that people who put more time into game shouldn't have any advantage over someone who gives fewer hours into the game a day when thats exactly how reality in the real world works. Except the advantage is virtually meaningless in a video game. Edited March 14, 2015 by Nickious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickious Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I just wished there was a way to track which Datacrons I have on each toons as the achievements if I remember correctly are legacy. So I might have the achievement for Korriban ones but I might be missing them on a toon. Wish there was a good in-game way to track them (Codex tracking isn't really useful) Yeah I wish. Would make it so much more convenient for the characters I haven't played in awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helig Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Way to hyperbolize. I was referring to a trade off between actually working and being productivity, with casual time spent playing the game, rather than treating the game like a full time job, not trying to go full sustenance living in the outback. Basic economic principle of trade offs. Honestly I don't really care if they add it as legacywide or not. I just found it amusing that you found that people who put more time into game shouldn't have any advantage over someone who gives fewer hours into the game a day when thats exactly how reality in the real world works. Except the advantage is virtually meaningless in a video game. Re-read my post. That's not what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkJediMage Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) ezers, the devs stll have not responded to this post. what does that tell you? it is moot. Edited March 14, 2015 by DarkJediMage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Emphasis added Therein lies the problem. Those who are willing and able to commit more of their real-time to a game always insist on gaining and retaining advantage over those who cannot or will not. Additional example: much (though not all) of the "P2W" ranting is around this very issue - "I spent time to get X; someone with more money than time shouldn't be allowed to get X with money." (The "basement dweller with unlimited time and mom's credit card (unlimited money)" is sufficiently rare as to be a strawman in such arguments.) The same is true in reverse, those who have all day to play get an advantage over those who actually work for a living. So the knife cuts both ways... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marctraider Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) I made a suggestion about datacrons a few days back too. With the constant gear upgrades with each new expansion they become more obsolete. Its really a shame cuz people that spent all their time on getting them for the small stat boost are screwed. I know, some people just want to collect all the codex lore and datacrons for fun, i liked them for their stats. but at this point they might just as well remove those stats cuz at max level 60 end game they are 0.1% effective. Legacy the datacrons and make them scaled so they dont get more and more useless each time gear rating goes up. that also goes for the shards, from what ive seen there are way better relics now, which is also a shame. Might as well remove the whole 'put your own datacron together' mechanic. Im surprised the initial post by the OP didnt include boosting or 'bolstering' them. Edited March 15, 2015 by Marctraider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetFish Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 I made a suggestion about datacrons a few days back too. Since people love to beat a dead horse I'll just copy/paste the same thing I replied in that thread: If you collect them as you're leveling they make a difference since you get experience as well. If you wait until you're at max level and then go back they don't mean as much and you also don't get experience. It's also easier on you to get them as you go instead of trying to go back for them afterward. They are meant to be collected during your adventures, not after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetFish Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 ezers, the devs stll have not responded to this post. what does that tell you? it is moot. The developers don't need to reply to this post or any other dead-horse Datacron threads since they're never going to do it. People keep clinging to a little footnote from 3 years ago that was up on some whiteboard in an office of someone who no longer even works there. Let it go. Let it go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exiled-Phoenix Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 I'll only bother getting them on 1 char... so legacy wide unlock when collected all of them would be nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marctraider Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) Since people love to beat a dead horse I'll just copy/paste the same thing I replied in that thread: If you collect them as you're leveling they make a difference since you get experience as well. If you wait until you're at max level and then go back they don't mean as much and you also don't get experience. It's also easier on you to get them as you go instead of trying to go back for them afterward. They are meant to be collected during your adventures, not after. And.. who decides that? The time investment to get most of them while leveling doesnt even justify the amount of XP they give. So moot point. Sounds to me you simply want them to be useless since you do not want to spend your precious time trying to get them. Guess what? With a bit of practice you can the relevant datacrons for your class in a day or so. (since you only need either cunning+aim or willpower+strength next to endurance/presence and the matrix shards are pretty much useless. Edited March 15, 2015 by Marctraider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 I made a suggestion about datacrons a few days back too. With the constant gear upgrades with each new expansion they become more obsolete. Its really a shame cuz people that spent all their time on getting them for the small stat boost are screwed. How so? They have the boosts, don't they? They got the "value" of them, (whatever that is or was), didn't they? No one forced those players to get the datacrons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 And.. who decides that? The time investment to get most of them while leveling doesnt even justify the amount of XP they give. So moot point. XP is not the only reason why it often makes sense to find the datacrons as you level. Finding them as you level also saves you the time of going back and finding them once you reach max level. Sounds to me you simply want them to be useless since you do not want to spend your precious time trying to get them. Guess what? With a bit of practice you can the relevant datacrons for your class in a day or so. (since you only need either cunning+aim or willpower+strength next to endurance/presence and the matrix shards are pretty much useless. If you want the stat bonuses from the datacrons far a particular character, then find the datacrons on that character. After all, in your own words, you can get the relevant datacrons for your class in a day or so. That doesn't sound like too much effort to me if you want those bonuses, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 I'll only bother getting them on 1 char... so legacy wide unlock when collected all of them would be nice Fortunately, the datacrons are completely OPTIONAL. You don't have to find them on all your characters. Characters that you choose not to find the datacrons on simply don't get those stat bonuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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