It's Time

[Doomsdaycomes]

While there is another thread discussing pretty much the exact same thing, I shall repeat myself here.

 

I agree with pretty much what MJR has said, even if he is brutally honest to a degree most find insulting. Those of you reply that PuG's can be fun, or that games without out coordinated teams (PuG's) are more fun... I suggest reading "Playing to Win" by Sirlin. It is available in a simple google search.

 

Reading it myself brought upon perhaps one of the greatest realizations in my gaming life... I was (and perhaps still am) a scrub. I consider myself a decent player, perhaps even skilled. But... Prior to about 6 months ago... I held onto an "honor" code when I played. People who used Medpaks pissed me off because they were "cheap." Premades and people with optimal gear were "cheap." I would get angry at other teams for using 2-3 decent healers because they were 'cheap."

 

Then, after reading "Playing to Win", and reflecting upon it, I realized the very same. There is no honor code in general PvP, and expecting others to adhere to yours is setting yourself up for failure. Read "Playing to Win." by Sirlin.

 

 

(On a side note, for those who have seen my posts on class balance issues, please note there is a difference between discussing class balance and simply refusing to adjust, or being a "scrub.")

[Henu]

LOL give up on this quest its an MMO for gods sake, if i want to queue with my mates i can!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Technohic]

You know what would fix this fairly for both sides?

 

Open World PvP.

 

Where it is premades and PUGs going against other premades and Pugs together in a grudge match.

 

Then we can complain about faction imbalance.

[Mancer]

You know what would fix this fairly for both sides?

 

Open World PvP.

 

Where it is premades and PUGs going against other premades and Pugs together in a grudge match.

 

Then we can complain about faction imbalance.

 

^^ I like this quote.

[Jadescythe]

You know what would fix this fairly for both sides?

 

Open World PvP.

 

Where it is premades and PUGs going against other premades and Pugs together in a grudge match.

 

Then we can complain about faction imbalance.

 

Nothing says fun like a giant zergfest...

[Technohic]

Nothing says fun like a giant zergfest...

 

If you play with a lot of PUGs; that is pretty much what you are doing anyway.

 

More like lemming fest; actually.

[TeamDefiant]

Simple fix

 

Rated queue - 8 man group vs 8 man group

Group/Solo queue - any non-eight man group combination vs any non-eight man group combination

Solo queue - no grouping of any kind

 

Everyone can have it their way. The only thing that will change is that those thinking their way is the right way will soon find that the majority of pvp players are not in their group no matter how you divide it up.

 

You can compete for a rank. You can play with your friends for no rank. You can play by yourself in a "random draw".

 

"Random draw" is how I interpret what EA really wants out of solo queue since Baron Deathmark states that's how the Huttball groups are drawn. But then again he does say cheating is encouraged too, so maybe all the groupers are "cheating" their way to easier victories.

 

You decide.

[UGLYMRJ]

Simple fix

 

Rated queue - 8 man group vs 8 man group

Group/Solo queue - any non-eight man group combination vs any non-eight man group combination

Solo queue - no grouping of any kind

 

Rated is dying from a lack of competition... most of the good guilds are leaving so it will soon leave an even more casual player base than it already has. Personally I'm not in favor of catering to an even less competitive base as it just breeds more of the same. A solo queue would just give more people a less competitive game, I hate the idea. Unfortunately I am a minority here.

Edited October 22, 2012 by UGLYMRJ

[L-RANDLE]

There is no honor code in general PvP.

Reminds me of two favorite rants.

 

HELLO!!!!!

YOU PLAY...... TO WIN..... THE GAME.....

 

WE DON'T NEED MORE CATS, BE A DOG!!

 

Do I look good? Do I got my extra bands on... Meow.... Be a dog...

[DrewFromPhilly]

People want the competitiveness to be brought DOWN to their level... instead of bringing their level UP. If that same mind set was brought into any competitive sport, or the work place, that idea would be laughed at and it should be laughed at here.

 

Did you just compare TOR's competitiveness to professional sports?

 

Lets think about this. Every player in tor has the ability to play the game at a certain level, right? They can press tab and their ability keys at a certain rate, they'll have a certain level of understanding when it comes to maximizing damage/heals, and understand the game modes, maps, and the differences between classes to a variable degree. Other players will be higher or lower on the spectrum, right? And, the only way to improve these specific things is to play the game - repetition and practice, combined with maybe some reading up on class abilities and what have you.

 

Looking at baseball, every hitter is going to have a certain ability on a spectrum between the terrible and the good. Some can hit .300, get 100 RBI a year, etc. while others get nowhere near that. And, the only way to improve that would be a combination of coaching, physical conditioning, and of course repetition and practice.

 

Ok, now. Expertise and gear. Raising your expertise via better gear in tor is a separate thing entirely than what I described above. Raising your expertise will give you an advantage completely independent of your own abilities and skill, which in baseball would be the equivalent of steroids and corked bats. In MLB these things are obviously illegal...and yet in TOR it is the entire point. TOR (although fun) simply isn't a truly competitive game and tbh I find the idea of ranked matches absolutely ridiculous For it to be competitive, players would need to be on a level playing field and have only their own abilities to rely on.

[UGLYMRJ]

Did you just compare TOR's competitiveness to professional sports?

 

Lets think about this. Every player in tor has the ability to play the game at a certain level, right? They can press tab and their ability keys at a certain rate, they'll have a certain level of understanding when it comes to maximizing damage/heals, and understand the game modes, maps, and the differences between classes to a variable degree. Other players will be higher or lower on the spectrum, right? And, the only way to improve these specific things is to play the game - repetition and practice, combined with maybe some reading up on class abilities and what have you.

 

Looking at baseball, every hitter is going to have a certain ability on a spectrum between the terrible and the good. Some can hit .300, get 100 RBI a year, etc. while others get nowhere near that. And, the only way to improve that would be a combination of coaching, physical conditioning, and of course repetition and practice.

 

Ok, now. Expertise and gear. Raising your expertise via better gear in tor is a separate thing entirely than what I described above. Raising your expertise will give you an advantage completely independent of your own abilities and skill, which in baseball would be the equivalent of steroids and corked bats. In MLB these things are obviously illegal...and yet in TOR it is the entire point. TOR (although fun) simply isn't a truly competitive game and tbh I find the idea of ranked matches absolutely ridiculous For it to be competitive, players would need to be on a level playing field and have only their own abilities to rely on.

 

Video games are sports for lazy people... it's a way to be competitive without actually being active.

 

And most people playing rated are equally geared or near equally geared. Just like in the major leagues they have better equipment than the farm leagues. Same thing... and if you aren't capable of getting that gear than you probably have no business on the field anyways.

 

I'm not gonna feed into your gear complaint any further. There are gear based MMO's and MMO's without... find one that suits you. It's like signing yourself up for a soccer league and then demanding them to change the rules so you can throw the ball.

Edited October 22, 2012 by UGLYMRJ

[Draekos]

Good idea, but won't happen with the number of folks who defend it. Simple answer join a PvE guild and let PvP go. I used to PvP daily, but now I might do a match or two each week. On the bright side I had never done an OP other than EV before joining my new guild, so I have tons of fun content to do.

[L-RANDLE]

I'm not gonna feed into your gear complaint any further. There are gear based MMO's and MMO's without... find one that suits you.

Cmon, we all know Kmart XJ9000 are on par with Jordans and will not impact performance at all...

 

 

Most of those types don't have a clue about how gear impact in any level of sports, let alone the pros.

[Henu]

To the people QQing about grouped queues. Man up will you, you sound like a bunch of babies, yet i dont think you would get up set if that 4man pre-made group was on your side and you win a Hutt Ball 6 - 0...

 

EVERYONE has the right to group up with there mates/guildies in game even you, just because you dont do it doesnt mean the others should be told not too... just grow a pair will you.

[denpic]

These posts are ridiculous mmo pvp is based on group play

If you can't or don't want to form groups its no ones problem but your own

[Mancer]

Video games are sports for lazy people... it's a way to be competitive without actually being active.

 

You cut me deep...

[xxIncubixx]

the same problem as warhammer

[SovereignConvict]

Simple fix

 

Rated queue - 8 man group vs 8 man group

Group/Solo queue - any non-eight man group combination vs any non-eight man group combination

Solo queue - no grouping of any kind

 

Everyone can have it their way. The only thing that will change is that those thinking their way is the right way will soon find that the majority of pvp players are not in their group no matter how you divide it up.

 

You can compete for a rank. You can play with your friends for no rank. You can play by yourself in a "random draw".

 

"Random draw" is how I interpret what EA really wants out of solo queue since Baron Deathmark states that's how the Huttball groups are drawn. But then again he does say cheating is encouraged too, so maybe all the groupers are "cheating" their way to easier victories.

 

You decide.

 

This is exactly what I would prefer.

[cub-lover]

i'd rarther loose a match where ive had fun, than loose a match where i was forced to quit due to both stupidity of either myself, or my team, or jsut beign steam rolled, and spending 90% of the game in the respawn pen becasue the oposing team have all three turrets ect, i mean theirs loosing and having fun, and then theirsl oosing because theirs no coperation, no communication, and the peopel that REALLY enjoy rubbing your face in the dirt

[Ssfbistimg]

i'd rarther loose a match where ive had fun, than loose a match where i was forced to quit due to both stupidity of either myself, or my team, or jsut beign steam rolled, and spending 90% of the game in the respawn pen becasue the oposing team have all three turrets ect, i mean theirs loosing and having fun, and then theirsl oosing because theirs no coperation, no communication, and the peopel that REALLY enjoy rubbing your face in the dirt

 

and im sure every prefers winning over losing. hence why they play with people they trust to actually play the objectives. as i said before having 6 idiots on your team trying to play death match isn't fun. so if you can eliminate the ammount of spots available to your 8 man roster you have better chance of avoiding this outcome. don't hate premades....hate the people who don't understand objectives.

[Netpass]

don't hate premades....hate the people who don't understand objectives.

 

this is just different weight class, like boxing for example. Fighting random group vs premade is like a 50kg boxer, trying to beat 100kg one. So you think adding extra muscles and weight will help? Maybe, but we don't need that. I want to be a 50 kg boxer and compete in a fair fight with the opponent of the same category. Can u imagine a 100kg boxer who's want to fight 50kg one because "he don't have any opponents in his class right now", this is nonsense. The skill is totally different. Premades have voice comms in most cases while random pugs not even read the chat. yes, 5-6 players of my team can play deadmatch instead of doing objectives. but it's perfectly fine, cuz the oposite random team of same skill will do the same in most cases. So it's a different play style and different wz athmosphere.

The solution is simple: adding 3rd class of warzones - solo/pair queue. Only random draw, but you can queue with your friend. Normal warzones should be for 2-4 ppl groups only. And also add solo queue to ranked. So those who think they are good enough for ranked can queue with any group size.

[ZomgAChicken]

I agree with OP.

[DarthRaika]

Dude Ugly competitive......There is nothing competitive about current swtor pvp. When you premade most matches will be against pugs in the current system. This is even when there are many premades q'n. The premade could maybe wait 30 seconds to fight another premade but the system just puts them in a match as soon as possible.

 

There is nothing competitive about that. If there is premade matching I will premade again. Otherwise I will just play on my 8 diff chars pugging most matches. When the game first came out I premaded on my sorc a lot and we crushed pugs all the time. It was horribly boring. I quit my sorc months ago due to the dumbing down of it but on my other chars the few times I've formed good premades since then it has been the same thing. I would personally rather get pugstomped than do the frequent pugstomping and so i solo q.

 

If you want competitition then you need to promote premade matching, cross server q's, and mixed faction teams (when necessary). This will bring a little drama at first from the bad hardcore players and from RP'rs but it is pretty much the only chance swtor pvp has.

Edited October 23, 2012 by DarthRaika

[LarryRow]

which, btw, is what "good" players do: they only run with "good" players and then brag about stomping lesser players who aren't even in premades. I'm not cryin' about it, but don't act like it isn't exactly what it is: the rich get richer and poor get poorer.

 

^ This right here.

 

Good players need to win so they can continue to tell themselves they are good players. How do they do this? They seek out the other good players and group/guild up and become untouchable. They don't want competition. They want wins and bigger epeens.

 

It's kind of like putting the American League All Star Team in the bracket against all the other teams, minus their star players.

[Kalfear]

PvP is meant to be competitive.....

 

I AGREE 1000%

 

And because its suppose to be competitive, Pre mades shouold face pre mades and Pugs should face Pugs

 

I mean whats competitive about being in full augmented Elite war Hero gear and haveing the perfect set up class wise and then adding in voice communication that you know the other team will not have?

 

How exactly is there competition for the pre mades in that senario?

 

ONLY ANSWER is ..... Its not

 

So you put the Pre mades to face other pre mades that also have the gear and optimized group formation and communication...and may the best players win based on their actual ability rather then just being over geared with every conceivable advantage given to them (and sadly some external program advantages that I will not mention here).

 

Pre made vrs pre made

Pug vrs pug (with 2 seperate ques ...one for 1225 expertise and lower and a seperate que for solos with 1226 and higher expertise)

and then the ranked warzones for the 8 man groups

 

BAMM, COMPETITIVE PVP

no greifing

no farming

no BS

 

But somehow I know you will not accept that.

 

Said it before and say it again

Right now the pre mades are all about greifing and epeen stroking.

They dont go ranked cause when its a level playing feild, they suddenly end up on lossing end

Its not a shock that the games BEST PVPers dont roll the solo que with their maxed out characters.

 

PS: EA better do something cause right now the post 50 pvp will not sell to the F2P crowd. Be it a weekly pass or a monthly subscription. Who wants to stand no chance because of gear and communication not available to the newest PUG players!