Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

[Comfterbilly]

Very close to the top posted thread in this section and still no dev response. Oh Bioware how you never cease to amuse me every time I log in.

 

Yeah I really wonder what their problem is. My main guess is they're deeply embroiled in the dawning realization of just how screwed up this game engine really is, and just how big of an overhaul they have in store for their future, and how many PO'd customers they're going to have in the mean time waiting for a future game patch that even they don't know how soon it will be, to stabilize the game itself, much less PVP. They're probably thinking, all the customers are going to be so pissed about having to subscribe through that drama, that cross server and solo queue are the least of their problems.

 

Not so for this customer. I can put up with almost anything but I need to know they have a plan for solo-queue. I thought the new class customizations in 2.0 were some of the best in the game (Helloo phase walk), but have only increased the disparity between coordinated and uncoordinated teams. Reading the last twenty pages over again, I think it's clear the premades have lost the argument.

 

It's time for the devs to notice.

[HuaRya]

Hard to imagine a PVP game in 2013 doesn't have a solo option. Instead they have a ranked warzone which the ranked teams do not want to play in. The ranked warzone is at it's best a place where the top 3 guilds on a server compete with each other then go back to stomping pugs in their half premades.

[cashogy_reborn]

Hard to imagine a PVP game in 2013 doesn't have a solo option. Instead they have a ranked warzone which the ranked teams do not want to play in. The ranked warzone is at it's best a place where the top 3 guilds on a server compete with each other then go back to stomping pugs in their half premades.

 

the reason ranked warzones are this way is because a) terrible implementation, b) the entire rwz scene has become rather stagnate (and boring), and c) players get butthurt too quickly to improve enough to compete.

 

you dont get 8 people together and immediately start competing with the top guilds on the server.

 

this is why we need real matchmaking. if the RWZ scene becomes more welcoming to new groups, you will see more people participate in it. also, we could do with some kind of 4v4 thing; getting a good comp of 8 is not always easy.

 

 

however, that has absolutely nothing to do with this issues. the bad PUGs will continue to be bad, and the premades actually scared of going into ranked will keep staying out of it. even a solo queue isnt going to solve this, because people will game the queue to get "groups" in through the solo queue.

 

the only real way to address this issue is with skill based matchmaking throughout all levels of PvP. bads will face bads, goods will face goods. and the world will be happy..... until folks find something else to complain about

[turboooo]

the reason ranked warzones are this way is because a) terrible implementation, b) the entire rwz scene has become rather stagnate (and boring), and c) players get butthurt too quickly to improve enough to compete.

 

you dont get 8 people together and immediately start competing with the top guilds on the server.

 

this is why we need real matchmaking. if the RWZ scene becomes more welcoming to new groups, you will see more people participate in it. also, we could do with some kind of 4v4 thing; getting a good comp of 8 is not always easy.

 

 

however, that has absolutely nothing to do with this issues. the bad PUGs will continue to be bad, and the premades actually scared of going into ranked will keep staying out of it. even a solo queue isnt going to solve this, because people will game the queue to get "groups" in through the solo queue.

 

the only real way to address this issue is with skill based matchmaking throughout all levels of PvP. bads will face bads, goods will face goods. and the world will be happy..... until folks find something else to complain about

 

 

Na a solo Que will fix it. With groups will just be split into different wz. Then just have ranked groups. If you want to combine 4 mans to make more ranks cool. But keep groups out of solo Que.

Edited June 10, 2013 by turboooo

[Jorojus]

I don't mind solo quees. Might give more ranked on some servers.

 

"Even in solo quees, it will be the same kind of players that'll have to carry the team."

Edited June 10, 2013 by Jorojus

[rlamela]

Solo Queue wont solve anything. You will still get stuck with 6 bads while other team gets 5 good players. There is no match making. queue takes first 8 players in queue. All solo queue will do is have you on here crying aboot how its not fair other team got 3 heals and you got zip.

Bioware should have released solo ranked. I know alot were against this, and I admit first month or so would have sucked. But then after people started getting real rankings it would have started to actually work. Then all the more serious pvp'ers would be doing ranked while all the casuals could for the most part have the regular warzones.

I mean I will quit playing this game the day bioware stops allowing groups to queue. I solo queue 98% of the time and there is no way I would queue up knowing that I had zero chance of playing with and against premades. Every single fun warzone I ever been in had a premade on other team. And 60% of the worst warzones I have been in had no premade on either team

 

Rellik

Jenna'syyde

Crackroxx

Edited June 10, 2013 by rlamela

[DariusCalera]

"Grass Children" can grow anywhere, any time. Because they just can do it. And they can become strong, too.

"Orchid Children", however, can't do this. They depend on special environments. They grow where grass can't grow - and they really shine there.

 

My suspicion is, that most QQers are Orchid Children, too.

 

If they'd get the proper support from other players, they'd be extraordinary genius players.

But instead, they get roflstomped, because they can't grow everywhere. They are slow at learning their classes, and perhaps even slow at analysing everything - and putting that into a strategy. Plus, they'll never get a full-blown ego, because they do realize that they are fragile.

.

 

The kicker is that the support structure for your "Orchid Children" is already in place and it has been from the very beginning. They simply need to utilize it.

 

Through out this thread, you will see posts from "Grass Children" telling others that they can find the support that they need by joining guilds, grouping with friends, checking the forums, or simply asking questions of another player while in game. In response to those postings, you will see people basically replying that they want to play the way that they want to play and the game should be adjusted to fit their play style.

 

Those that are unwilling to use the support system that is in place should have to deal with the consequences of doing so. They should not be coddled because they insist on playing a MMO as a single player game.

 

I solo queue most of the time and I recently came back to the game after taking a break for a few months. Before I started PvPing again I checked the PvP forums about Bolster, then checked my class forums on gearing and BiS, then asked questions of those in my guild who had been around and knew how everything was put together, and in game I asked questions of more experienced commandos and mercs about the changes to our class and more questions about gearing.

 

So, once again, the support structure is in place it just needs to be utilized.

 

My theory is that most QQers are just those that are unwilling to do so.

Edited June 10, 2013 by DariusCalera

[AlrikFassbauer]

the reason ranked warzones are this way is because a) terrible implementation, b) the entire rwz scene has become rather stagnate (and boring), and c) players get butthurt too quickly to improve enough to compete.

 

And d) most PvP players regard c) as normal.

 

The kicker is that the support structure for your "Orchid Children" is already in place and it has been from the very beginning. They simply need to utilize it.

 

No, I was rather thinking of other PvP players helping them - with explaining etc. .

But I rather suspect that they prefer to be among their own circles.

Plus - look at c) from the quote above.

Edited June 10, 2013 by AlrikFassbauer

[Jorojus]

The kicker is that the support structure for your "Orchid Children" is already in place and it has been from the very beginning. They simply need to utilize it.

 

Through out this thread, you will see posts from "Grass Children" telling others that they can find the support that they need by joining guilds, grouping with friends, checking the forums, or simply asking questions of another player while in game. In response to those postings, you will see people basically replying that they want to play the way that they want to play and the game should be adjusted to fit their play style.

 

Those that are unwilling to use the support system that is in place should have to deal with the consequences of doing so. They should not be coddled because they insist on playing a MMO as a single player game.

 

I solo queue most of the time and I recently came back to the game after taking a break for a few months. Before I started PvPing again I checked the PvP forums about Bolster, then checked my class forums on gearing and BiS, then asked questions of those in my guild who had been around and knew how everything was put together, and in game I asked questions of more experienced commandos and mercs about the changes to our class and more questions about gearing.

 

So, once again, the support structure is in place it just needs to be utilized.

 

My theory is that most QQers are just those that are unwilling to do so.

 

Its true that this structure is present and those that are really willing will use it, but there are alot of players out there who just entered a warzone who get scolded for beeing a nub by so called ragers that don't have the logic to understand that every day new players join this game and might have never played an mmo, let alone ever heard of ancient hypergates ...

 

Otherwise you got players who do enjoy themselves and derp around, but nobody really explains them, and they don't ask either how to improve their game. These players end up in level 55 warzones eventually and the ragers rage even more instead of doing something useful.

[SajPl]

Solo Queue wont solve anything. You will still get stuck with 6 bads while other team gets 5 good players. There is no match making. queue takes first 8 players in queue. All solo queue will do is have you on here crying aboot how its not fair other team got 3 heals and you got zip.

[/b]

 

This all the way. Baddies will still qq that the dedicated pvpers are plaing properly and keep doing 1 mil+ while they struggle to do their 80k damage/heals/protection. Guys, seriously L2P.

Edited June 10, 2013 by SajPl

[Kovaos]

Well I'm going to have to give the edge of this argument to the matchmaker/solo queue requesters. There has yet to be any type of convincing argument from the non supporters.

 

What I've seen from both sides in this thread are:

 

Matchmaking/Solo Queuers want....

 

1. To be paired against players with similar skill levels and gear.

2. To play in more competitive games, not the lop sided games for whichever team has the premade.

 

Premade Queuers want...

 

1. To be paired against players with much lower skill levels and gear.

2. Roflstomp noobs.

3. Play with friends and guildies.

 

The attitude towards solo queuers in this thread is quite confusing. If the premade advocates despise solo queuers so much then why do you want to continue to be paired against them if it means risking being paired with them. If your complaint is how bad of team mates they are and they need to seriously L2P then why not just play with or against premades continually? Maybe you will need to sacrifice queue times, but isn't that worth avoiding the pending cross of carrying noobs to victory?

 

TL;DR Solo Queuers/Pro Matchmakers want to avoid premades to play against people with similar skill sets and gear. Premades want to keep playing against solo queuers to play against people with less skill and gear. Both sides want to have fun.

[JattaGin]

Premade Queuers want...

 

1. To be paired against players with much lower skill levels and gear.

2. Roflstomp noobs.

3. Play with friends and guildies.

 

But you cannot say that out loud, how dare you.

 

300 pages (soon) in this thread! And nothing happened yet.

 

Yesterday, I was grouped with a 1x4 premade. I was so happy, because I thought I could finally grab a win after constantly facing premades. Boy, was I wrong. The other group had a 2x4 premade. Bummer.

Edited June 10, 2013 by JattaGin

[Jadescythe]

Well I'm going to have to give the edge of this argument to the matchmaker/solo queue requesters. There has yet to be any type of convincing argument from the non supporters.

 

What I've seen from both sides in this thread are:

 

Matchmaking/Solo Queuers want....

 

1. To be paired against players with similar skill levels and gear.

2. To play in more competitive games, not the lop sided games for whichever team has the premade.

 

Premade Queuers want...

 

1. To be paired against players with much lower skill levels and gear.

2. Roflstomp noobs.

3. Play with friends and guildies.

 

The attitude towards solo queuers in this thread is quite confusing. If the premade advocates despise solo queuers so much then why do you want to continue to be paired against them if it means risking being paired with them. If your complaint is how bad of team mates they are and they need to seriously L2P then why not just play with or against premades continually? Maybe you will need to sacrifice queue times, but isn't that worth avoiding the pending cross of carrying noobs to victory?

 

TL;DR Solo Queuers/Pro Matchmakers want to avoid premades to play against people with similar skill sets and gear. Premades want to keep playing against solo queuers to play against people with less skill and gear. Both sides want to have fun.

 

TL;DR This is the positives of what I want and the negatives of what you want.

 

A solo queue solves nothing. It causes an extreme amount of problems (queue times to say the least), but solves nothing. As long as the skill is even on both sides, you don't need to separate who is in which queue. Trust me, if you are on here complaining about premades always stomping you, you are in one of four categories:

 

1) You're not good. You may not be bad (well, you're probably bad), but you're not good and there is a good chance you think you're better than you are. Because of who matchmaking would put you against, you will not see the good premades, but may run into some mediocre ones if it was implemented without a solo queue. Either way, you will see much better matchups and have more fun.

 

2) You are average to good, but aren't looking for a competitive atmosphere. You aren't in one of the top guilds doing rateds and might even be in a PvE guild with friends who don't PvP or no guild at all. You are generally losing to better teams because your team can't keep up with the other team and you and see a large gap in stats at the end of a warzone between your team and everyone else. Matchmaking will help you by giving you teammates that are closer to your level, or at least teams that are more evenly distributed as far as skill level goes, rather than being stacked one way.

 

3) You're a reg hero. Good or bad, you solo queue because you are a "real" man. You see premading as a crutch because you don't care about anyone but yourself, so you're the first one to leave a node unguarded or unsuccessfully attack a node solo and leave your team a man down at an untaken node. I hope they find a way to match all of these players together so no one is stuck with this guy.

 

4) You're bad to average. You know you aren't good, but have fun in warzones and enjoy PvP combat. Matchmaking will put you with players of similar skill and not only make warzones more fun, but also help you improve in a way that solo queue never will by applying pressure to you in order to win. You won't have many really easy wins or face many no win scenarios, so you should win 50% of your games if you never improve.

 

Solo Queue takes away probably the top 30% of players on your server the majority of the time. It takes away the middle 40% probably half the time. You are going to see warzone after warzone of bads being bad. And huge queues for groups because some premade will have 3 people and hold things up until another 3 queue to group with them. The population can't support it, heck the population can't support matchmaking but at least it could try. We'll see what the magical solution is with 2.4 and hope it's worth the wait or PvP might literally be dead in this game.

[Kovaos]

TL;DR This is the positives of what I want and the negatives of what you want.

 

I didn't state any negatives for either. Roflstomping noobs is fun, I get it. It's FUN to win. Playing with friends is FUN and should absolutely be allowed. Those are not negatives...for you. The receiving end is where it hurts. (that's what she said)

 

I certainly am not whining one way or the other, however I would like to see something implemented.

 

Again, I didn't see a single relevant case as to why premades would want to be paired with or against non premades. You made several points about how bad people that solo queue are, but yet you argue to keep them in your queue. To say the queue times would be so bad is ridiculous. The queue times for RWZ right now are bad because you can currently queue up as a premade, kill some noobs, collect WZ comms and convert to RWZ comms. If the premades stopped queueing for regs then the maybe the queue time to face each other would improve.

[Jadescythe]

I didn't state any negatives for either. Roflstomping noobs is fun, I get it. It's FUN to win. Playing with friends is FUN and should absolutely be allowed. Those are not negatives...for you. The receiving end is where it hurts. (that's what she said)

 

I certainly am not whining one way or the other, however I would like to see something implemented.

 

Again, I didn't see a single relevant case as to why premades would want to be paired with or against non premades. You made several points about how bad people that solo queue are, but yet you argue to keep them in your queue. To say the queue times would be so bad is ridiculous. The queue times for RWZ right now are bad because you can currently queue up as a premade, kill some noobs, collect WZ comms and convert to RWZ comms. If the premades stopped queueing for regs then the maybe the queue time to face each other would improve.

 

The problem with your argument is that there is only 2 groups as you explain it: good premades and bad PUGs. The fact is, there are good and bad of both and a solo queue will suffer the same problems the current queue does. I illustrated those who generally complain about premades because the entire spectrum complains about them for different reasons.

 

Just because a good player complains about premades because they have a guaranteed 4 good players and he/she gets stuck with the scum of the universe and loses terribly, doesn't mean the same thing won't happen without premades. Solo queue will still be an unbalanced mess, but without the excuse of premades to fall back on. So the solution here falls to matchmaking in solo queue, but then you have a significantly lower population with a separate queue. So now matchmaking doesn't function even remotely close to properly because it has to throw together whoever is around anyway to avoid 15 minute queues all the time.

 

This is why we don't need a solo queue option, population. If we get millions of active players in ONE pool to play, then we can separate people however we want and you'll get matched perfectly. But last I checked, this isn't WoW or LoL and we don't have huge amounts of players or even cross server options. Would you rather get into a warzone with players vastly better than you that you will lose, but get comms, get to fight people, and possibly learn a bit and get better or would you rather sit in a queue for the length of 3 warzones to get one?

[Aehgo]

Can we change the title to "Bads are ruining non-ranked wazones"?

Most of the time I premade its just me and a mate,healer+tank and win rate is around 90%,but we have to do everything to win,we ,go ninja turrets,we fight their entire team and hold them for a long while while the rest of our team will lose our turret somehow....bads do nothing to help but complain about how the other team has a premade,they will only do max 800 dps/1000 hps...

Most warzones are just decided most of the time by whatever team has the least bads to carry,with the skillcap so low in this game it will rarely come down to who is the better pvper..just who has the least bads to carry..

[Kovaos]

I do agree there needs to be x server queues before any type of matchmaking system is in place.

 

I know for a fact there are very good solo queuers. I would without a doubt consider myself one, although I queue with my guild from time to time. I get the vibe from the people that do not want t matchmaking in place that they believe most solo queuers are just terribads. That's certainly not the case.

 

I disagree with your theory that without premades the solo queues would be a giant cluster of bads running around aimlessly. As far as bads being bads...let them bad. At least they will still have a shot at making an impact against each other.

 

Let the goods be good. Cut the red tape for both.

[MotorCityMan]

The increase in the effectiveness in healing has placed a premium on focus fire, and focus healing. Premades own a tremendous advantage in this regard due to being able to select classes, their agreement to cooperate, and voice chat. This has only served to widen the gap between premade teams and pug groups. It is up to Bioware to recognize this and to offer everyone an even playing field. Edited June 10, 2013 by MotorCityMan

[DariusCalera]

No, I was rather thinking of other PvP players helping them - with explaining etc. .

But I rather suspect that they prefer to be among their own circles.

Plus - look at c) from the quote above.

 

All that needs to happen is for them to ask for help and it will, more than likely, be given. But if they are unwilling to ask for help how is someone else to know that they are having issues?

 

It should not fall on the more experienced PvPers to track down those that are having difficulty. It is simply not efficient to do so. It is, however, far more efficient for those that are having troubles to ask.

 

Those that ask will, generally, find people far more receptive to helping them because just the simple act of asking shows that they are wanting to better themselves in the game and are striving to do so.

[cycao]

I do agree there needs to be x server queues before any type of matchmaking system is in place.

 

I know for a fact there are very good solo queuers. I would without a doubt consider myself one, although I queue with my guild from time to time. I get the vibe from the people that do not want t matchmaking in place that they believe most solo queuers are just terribads. That's certainly not the case.

 

I disagree with your theory that without premades the solo queues would be a giant cluster of bads running around aimlessly. As far as bads being bads...let them bad. At least they will still have a shot at making an impact against each other.

 

Let the goods be good. Cut the red tape for both.

 

I will agree with this but I wish some people here would agree that there are some terrible premades.

Edited June 10, 2013 by cycao

[TonyDragonflame]

Can we change the title to "Bads are ruining non-ranked wazones"?

Most of the time I premade

 

Stop reading there.

 

Good premaders with balls, playing their own premaders only queue - ranked warzones.

 

Baddies premaders without balls play regular, they knows what they are just baddies who cannot be competitive versus other premaders on ranked and they search any excuse for their baddiness just dont make more friends and dont play competitive game on ranked.

 

Solo queuers dont have their own separated ranked queue, so please Bioware, make *solo only* *ranked* queue, with solo individual rating, for good players who dont wanna play on regulars with/versus premaders baddies.

[cycao]

Solo queuers dont have their own separated ranked queue, so please Bioware, make *solo only* *ranked* queue, with solo individual rating, for good players who dont wanna play on regulars with/versus premaders baddies.

 

You really want a rating based off of 7 random players? That's some sound logic. And if premades are such baddies some good solo players should be able to give them a run for their money but they just quit out right away, I see it whenever I solo queue.

[Aehgo]

Stop reading there.

 

Good premaders with balls, playing their own premaders only queue - ranked warzones.

 

Baddies premaders without balls play regular, they knows what they are just baddies who cannot be competitive versus other premaders on ranked and they search any excuse for their baddiness just dont make more friends and dont play competitive game on ranked.

 

Solo queuers dont have their own separated ranked queue, so please Bioware, make *solo only* *ranked* queue, with solo individual rating, for good players who dont wanna play on regulars with/versus premaders baddies.

last I checked 2 people can't do RW.

Solo ranked defeats the purpose of ranked,as rating is still based on win/lose,so your rating is basically decided on how many times your team has less baddies then the other.

But sure,believe what you want,its the premades fault you baddies lose all the time..couldn't possible be because you need to be carried

Edited June 10, 2013 by Aehgo

[Kovaos]

 

I will agree with this but I wish some people here would agree that there are some terrible premades.

 

No doubt! I've seen them and unfortunately been part of them. Most of the ones I see that are terrible are new guilds trying to gear up.

[CommanderKeeva]

I believe we should hold a celebration to commemorate the 300th page. I wonder how many pages it will take to get an official answer on this.