Should Resolve be changed b/c of bad players

[QuietGoneJinn]

^ Ah, you are talking about operatives/smuggler

 

I know on my marauder, a well played Operative was the worst thing for me to run into. I could even deal with snipers with the right surroundings, but Operatives would lock me up and I could find myself in trouble real fast. But I have to say; I am completely OK with them shutting a marauder down.

 

I don't mind them negating a Marauder, I just don't like how it takes a while to get close to them (Smugglers too) and when you finally do they just stun lock you and crit you for HUGE hits.

 

They chip away at you from a distance and when you FINALLY close the gap making what SHOULD be your advantage (And is, in most cases) sometimes you get that one guy who is geared-to-the-moon and your Advantage becomes a disadvantage as you realize this guy can crit you for 7000 in a fist fight (And as a RANGED class, they should NOT be going toe-to-toe with a MELEE).

 

Again, it's only in the worst cases of over-geared toons. But still if you can knock 1/3-2/3 of my health in a single strike, I don't see the need to stun lock me for 5 minutes with consecutive stuns.

 

The main problem as i see it is this: We do not have enough hit points to justify any stuns longer than 4 seconds in total before the resolve bar is full.

THIS! A Smuggler can kill someone in 3 seconds yet can stun them for about a solid minute. Edited October 15, 2012 by QuietGoneJinn

[Technohic]

The main problem as i see it is this: We do not have enough hit points to justify any stuns longer than 4 seconds in total before the resolve bar is full.

 

The penalty to melee classes is very drastic compared to ranged classes, even ranged/melee classes have a huge advantage over melee classes in the stun category. Melee needs to be within range of all the stuns in the game in order to do any damage at all, Ranged classes do not, and rightfully exploit that fact.

 

In any case, a stun effectively costs you half your hp in almost all situations. Players that do not plan on even attacking you can stun you, and let another clean up for them.

 

The strategies are now based on the failed mechanic, rather than real strategy. Half a team could be in the wrong place and 1 player can effectively keep 2-3 others from capturing an objective.

 

The fast fix solutions have already been covered and ignored by most. These being:

1) Tripple every ones hitpoints, and reduce healing effectiveness.

2) Classes that take a significant amount of skill points in the heal tree, can no longer stun.

3) Remove AOE stuns and replace them with single target stuns.

4) Stunning someone starts the cool down on ALL YOUR OWN stunbreak abilities.

5) Resolve lasts until you die.

 

Any one of these changes would make "stunning" someone a tactical decision, and not just the button mashing stunlock fest it is now.

 

Before someone says it, I have 3 50's, Warrior, Agent, BH, and 5 other chars in the mid 20-30's

 

1. You hate healers or something? Would make them near useless. Bigger pool and healing less.

2. Again the healer hate? Tell us where they touched you. Seriously. No escape for healers as well as not being able to heal worth a damned.

3. What AOE Stuns are in the game? I do not know of any ability.

4. I don't even know where to start there, other than to say, OK. but now every attack you make puts your defensive cool downs on cool down

4. So if you you manage to survive a round of stuns; you become a permanent unstoppable force?

 

So what do you play? marauder?

[Zunayson]

Lol......

 

 

it's like you're asking for stabilisers on you're bike.

 

I didn't say the change is good nor bad. Helping premades to beat pugs has its counterarguments. I don't really see what your comment has to do with anything?

[Ramtar]

It's posts like this that make me believe no one understands resolve at all.

 

Hard stuns generate 200 resolve for each second of the stun. So a 4 second stun generates 800 resolve.

 

800 out of 1000 =/= 33%

 

Please read this article before posting anything else about resolve. The only thing that has changed since it was written is that now overlapping stuns don't build resolve and resolve begins to decay once you are free of the CC that granted you full resolve.

 

800 out of 1000 = 80%

[Zenates]

1. You hate healers or something? Would make them near useless. Bigger pool and healing less.

2. Again the healer hate? Tell us where they touched you. Seriously. No escape for healers as well as not being able to heal worth a damned.

3. What AOE Stuns are in the game? I do not know of any ability.

4. I don't even know where to start there, other than to say, OK. but now every attack you make puts your defensive cool downs on cool down

4. So if you you manage to survive a round of stuns; you become a permanent unstoppable force?

 

So what do you play? marauder?

 

Umm) You started typing without thinking here.

2) Nothing wrong with escaping. Find a way to do it without a stun. No more stunning someone to have time to heal up, may actually have to think about who you attack before hand.

3) Only stun break cold downs. If you meant to stun them, you should really mean it right?

4) You really dont know what the aoe stuns are?

Your other #4) If the other team fills your resolve bar, they have to live with it. They meant to triple stun you im sure, they just forgot about you.

 

If you had read a bit before you posted, you would know what classes I have.

[denpic]

Umm)

4) You really dont know what the aoe stuns are?

 

Enlighten us please

[awesomepossam]

I think they should make every class the same with abilities so that no one can complain anymore with pvp

[Zenates]

Enlighten us please

 

Come on... Really?

 

Operative has one, Marauder has one. So on...

 

Ohh im sure someone wont count them as stuns, because they break on damage. That wont help you if your stun breaker is on cooldown and it only takes 4 secs to capture/disarm.

 

Any movement preventing ability should be considered a stun. Slows are not included in this.

[Warlord_Maliken]

Look.. I love my toons here on swtor, i love star wars. I am a hardcore PvP'er and very good on all of my toons. From my mindless mercenary (gameplay?..) to my valor 100 juggernaught whom pwns face. CC IN THIS GAME IS DISGUSTING AND OUT OF CONTROL. if you do not believe this you are being willfully ignorant on the matter. Don't lie to yourself and say that people are are crying about CC are just baddies... PVP in this game is hardly entertaining b/c of the CC (even when i go vengeance spec to be cc'ed less sadly). ITS JUST NOT FUN. Knockbacks are a huge part of this game; gross. Knockback roots as well. So many 30 sec stunlock cooldowns for classes that have no business stunning.

 

I truely do not like PVP anymore in this game at all. I stay subbed b/c i want to see what bioware/ea does after free to play goes live, and see the direction they take with patches and updates. They need to fix it asap. Watch pro gamer youtube videos and hear what they have to say about PVP in this game. Swtor has an amazing foundation and isn't far from having the best pvp that any mmo has to offer, if they can wise up and not overwhelm us with CC fest in pvp. The same Mythic team did this in DAOC pvp and it was a big joke. Apparently they didn't learn anything. /cheers bioware/ea, i really dont wanna go back to WoW, cant wait to see you fix it and im waiting patiently

Edited October 15, 2012 by Warlord_Maliken

[denpic]

. So many 30 sec stunlock cooldowns for classes that have no business stunning.

 

Lol what classes do you think shouldn't be able to stun you?

[Kurvv]

This. The 1.4 change makes it easier for people who can't see that their target is already stunned by reducing the penalty for carelessly spamming cc. Because removing adrenals and turning relics into massive passive stat boosters didn't dumb down pvp enough.

I can say one thing the resolve change has helped me with - now when I'm in a pug huttball match and the ball carrier has full resolve before even reaching the catwalks, I know my team is incredibly hopeless and leave right away.

lol right... so what can a commando do against a marauder with full resolve bar? one big zero thats what. These forums are just rofl

 

Not sure if this is a misquote or....

[UGLYMRJ]

Ohh im sure someone wont count them as stuns, because they break on damage. That wont help you if your stun breaker is on cooldown and it only takes 4 secs to capture/disarm.

 

Any movement preventing ability should be considered a stun. Slows are not included in this.

 

 

NO ONE considers a mezz, root, slow, etc a stun... that's why they have other definitions such as mezz, root, slow, etc...

 

They are different abilities that work in different ways.

 

It is considered crowd control but those are not and should never be referred to as stuns. It would be similar to calling a pair of jeans a shirt just because they're both articles of clothing. It doesn't make sense and they have different definitions and names for a reason.

Edited October 15, 2012 by UGLYMRJ

[Zenates]

NO ONE considers a mezz, root, slow, etc a stun... that's why they have other definitions such as mezz, root, slow, etc...

 

They are different abilities that work in different ways.

 

It is considered crowd control but those are not and should never be referred to as stuns. It would be similar to calling a pair of jeans a shirt just because they're both articles of clothing. It doesn't make sense and they have different definitions and names for a reason.

 

The point you are trying to make, does not apply in SWTOR, not at all, not by a long shot.

 

Even the "Break on damage" stuns are a free pass to wipe out 1/3rd of your hitpoints.

 

Using semantics to justify your opinion will not make the rest of the people here believe its not a broken system.

Edited October 15, 2012 by Zenates

[UGLYMRJ]

The point you are trying to make, does not apply in SWTOR, not at all, not by a long shot.

 

Even the "Break on damage" stuns are a free pass to wipe out 1/3rd of your hitpoints.

 

Using semantics to justify your opinion will not make the rest of the people here believe its not a broken system.

 

I remember my first MMO...

 

(Insert another Step-Brothers movie reference below)

 

And btw... it takes far more than 4 seconds to capture.

Edited October 15, 2012 by UGLYMRJ

[Zenates]

I remember my first MMO...

 

(Insert another Step-Brothers movie reference below)

 

And btw... it takes far more than 4 seconds to capture.

 

Not to disarm, and not on the coast if its almost complete already.

[UGLYMRJ]

Not to disarm, and not on the coast if its almost complete already.

 

And it doesn't take 10 minutes to BBQ a steak if it's cooked already...

 

 

Your logic breaks all barriers found in the real world...

[Zenates]

And it doesn't take 10 minutes to BBQ a steak if it's cooked already...

 

 

Your logic breaks all barriers found in the real world...

 

Novare has incremental nodes. One can capture them a little at a time, and not lose any progress if the other team doesnt try to capture it.

 

BBQ'ed steak. LOL

Guiness just isnt a dark beer son.

Edited October 15, 2012 by Zenates

[KiranK]

PvP without CC would be boring.

 

PvP WITHOUT CC is boring? PvP in its current for is either:

 

A) I get stunlocked and die without ever fighting back or

B) I stunlock them and they die without ever getting to fight back

 

Neither scenario provides entertainment. Explain to me how PvP without CC is "boring". Besides, no one asked stuns to be removed from PvP completely. We'd just like to actually be able to play the game, as opposed to having our keyboards unplugged from our machines for half the match. Less CC != no CC. That is all.

[Jenzali]

lol right... so what can a commando do against a marauder with full resolve bar? one big zero thats what. These forums are just rofl

 

The new Rocket Punch/Stockstrike root works against full resolve targets

[L-RANDLE]

you lack the knowledge of how resolve actually works.

 

Each second you are stunned, 200 resolve is added.

 

This works whether 2 stun/mez overlaps or not.

 

What exactly am i lacking? I said if I am stunned back to back I should have a full resolve bar, but in-game doesn't do that. So if I am stunned for 6 sec, I should have 1200 resolve right? Like I said, show me a situation where you are stunned two times on a row and your bar is full... Good luck with that....

[Scotland]

What exactly am i lacking? I said if I am stunned back to back I should have a full resolve bar, but in-game doesn't do that. So if I am stunned for 6 sec, I should have 1200 resolve right? Like I said, show me a situation where you are stunned two times on a row and your bar is full... Good luck with that....

 

If you are "stunned" for 6 seconds then yes you will have a full resolve bar.

 

Please, I invite you to post a video showing me different.

[L-RANDLE]

If you are "stunned" for 6 seconds then yes you will have a full resolve bar.

 

Please, I invite you to post a video showing me different.

 

Do you even play this game? pfft...

[Capt_Beers]

The only problem with that is you can get stunned/mezzed and stun/mezzed back to back(overlapped) and not fill a resolve bar, so that somewhat debunks this article values. Hard stun, then, @3 SEC second stun. 7 sec * 200= full resolve, but it don't.

 

And the date on it is.... well.... old.....

 

If you can show me a situation where it does fill it, please post a video.

 

Do you have any proof that your resolve wasn't filled? Anything? You can't just claim "but it don't." Because in the situation you are presenting you would have 1600 resolve. Once you achieve full resolve you get a bonus of 100 resolve per 200 above resolve cap. Since in this case you were awarded 1400 resolve you would get 200 resolve bonus.

 

It just doesn't make sense. If a Smuggler, for example, can hit me for 2k-3k at a RANGE and prevent me from getting close with DEFENSE/PUSHBACK, and STEALTH to escape being defeated AND ON TOP OF ALL THAT can STUN me 3-4 consecutive times then deliver Close-Combat DPS that rivals my own. . .It's just too much. They don't need that much power.

 

You are not being stunned 3-4 times in a row. No class has 4 stuns. Smugglers/Agents have 1 melee stun and 1 ranged mezz. Scoundrels/Operatives get an additional 2 sec stun added to Hidden Strike/Shoot First way up the in Concealment/Scrapper tree. If they push you back they are not going to steath away as they are a Gunslinger/Sniper and don't have stealth.

 

THIS! A Smuggler can kill someone in 3 seconds yet can stun them for about a solid minute.

 

3 seconds is 2 global CD's. I don't know anyone that can kill someone in 2 CD's. Stunned for a minute? Yep , 4 sec stun + 2 sec. stun + 8 sec mezz (breaks on damage) = 14 seconds. Your resolve would have also been full after the 2 second stun.

 

Here's the a post I made about how long you can actually be stunned in a WZ. I ignored Spinning Kick and others like it (2 sec stuns/knockdowns) because the GCD is 1.5 seconds so it's more like an interrupt than a stun.

 

Well let's do some math, I'm ignoring the talented ones and others like Spinning Kick:

 

(8 players on a team * 1 hard stun per player / 1 minute CD = 8 stuns per minute (spm).

 

8 spm * 15 minute match = 120 hard stuns per team per match per team.

8 spm * 20 minute match = 160 hard stuns per match per team.

 

120 hard stuns * 4 seconds each / 60 seconds = 8 minutes total that one team can stun the other. (which makes the "I spend half a game stunned" posts seem kind of silly).

 

160 hard stuns * 4 seconds each / 60 seconds = ~11 minutes total that one team can stun the other

 

The obvious next step is divide that number by 8 and see how long each person could expect to be stunned on average. But we all know that wouldn't really be right as key players are more than likely going to be stunned more (healers, dangerous DPS, people who are always on the objective). But let's do it anyway.

 

Obviously in a 15 minute match you can expect that if every member of the opposing team never had their stuns off CD and used them immediately you should spend somewhere in the area of a minute per match stunned (about 6% of the time making the 50% claim seem even more unlikely).

 

In a 20 minute match that time changes to a little over a minute and a half (about 7% of the time).

 

So there's the math. Now I know I left out mezzs (because they break on damage, can't count the amount of times I have been mezzed and had it broken before the mezz animation started), the 2 sec stuns like Spinning Kick, The bubble one and Force Push (some have to be specced for or are situational). Snares and roots don't count because you can still flail your glowbats or cast. Kb's and Pulls also don't count as your in the air for like a half sec at most and these are usually on pretty long CD's for a half second of control.

 

I still figure this to be a high estimate because I don't think most people are staring at their bars waiting for their stun to come off CD so they can immediately stun the next person. This also assumes no one is guarding anything, that everyone is all in one spot throwing stuns all over the place. This model also assumes no one ever has full resolve or uses abilities such as Hold the Line, Unremitting, Hunker Down or Resilience.

[vimm]

I beg to differ, there are numerous threads and posts with many possible solutions for the broken resolve system. May I suggest you read a bit before posting...

 

Edit: apologies to the OP, didn't mean to stray off topic but the trolls seem to bring it out in me. OP, you have brought up a good question. One I'd normally agree with but I know many great PVP'er's that have issues with how resolve is working in TOR.

 

I'm not trolling, actually. People make plenty of suggestions, sure, but they don't realize the way it will affect balance, as far as objectives go. That was my point.

 

Resolve isn't broken, either; It's fuctioning exactly as intended.

Edited October 17, 2012 by vimm

[vimm]

The point you are trying to make, does not apply in SWTOR, not at all, not by a long shot.

 

Even the "Break on damage" stuns are a free pass to wipe out 1/3rd of your hitpoints.

 

Using semantics to justify your opinion will not make the rest of the people here believe its not a broken system.

 

Stuns aren't mezzes, get over it.