Progression thread 2.1

[raidmac]

Hey guys, i'm just a little puzzled by a few of your screenshots. In one shot it shows all of you together after the kill for a pet picture but in the other it shows only half of the kill group locked out for the raid. That leaves us wondering if this was a full guild run or a pug into another run. Also, was this an 8man or 16man? I couldn't tell from the picture.

 

well it looks like they are in front of the TFB entrance, so this could have been after.

[Chyanis]

well it looks like they are in front of the TFB entrance, so this could have been after.

 

Correct this was after. I forgot to get the screen shot after the kill and for some reason, my lockouts were bugged. The raid group consisted of: Klehitt, Savar, Dath-Cody, Amberlina, Bishuup, Gagoogin, G'reggy, and Lirel. This is our progression group, and the kill was on 8 man HM. So basically everyone in the pet picture.

[SojournerNC]

El Elyon 5/5 TFB HM..again...lol

 

Updates in. Any more guild info Don't Worry?

[LaniAkavir]

Correct this was after. I forgot to get the screen shot after the kill and for some reason, my lockouts were bugged. The raid group consisted of: Klehitt, Savar, Dath-Cody, Amberlina, Bishuup, Gagoogin, G'reggy, and Lirel. This is our progression group, and the kill was on 8 man HM. So basically everyone in the pet picture.

 

The group member section of the lockouts never glitch from what I've seen so far, though, only the Group Lockouts section stating which bosses are "Defeated/Available" can sometimes be incorrect.

 

A screenshot of everyone dancing on the dead body of those bosses can save us from so much more confusion.

[SojournerNC]

Guild Don't Worry About It is officially banned from this progression thread for false reporting. Thanks to those who brought it to attention.

 

If they can explain it properly why members do not have the achievement for killing endboss of SaV HM which were listed as being on the kill...I'll consider reinstating. As for now, I am showing zero tolerance for any misleading behavior. Let it be a warning to all guilds, get caught, you'll be removed.

[Chyanis]

I'm not false reporting. We downed Scum and Villany hard mode. I can't explain why this was bugged out, some members of the group had to log so perhaps that is what caused the bug. What makes you think there isn't a bug, honestly? I honestly think it's unfair to "ban" us. After our kill, we were so elated that I forgot to get a screen shot on the boss.

[raidmac]

Hrm maybe to be fair, you can have everyone take a screenshot of their achievements or just take a screenshot the next time you guys down it.

[rsuhandy]

You could always screen shot the achievement for each of the group members.

The kill times should be the same for all of the group members.

There are no known bug issues with the Styrak achievement so all group member kill times should be the same.

Edited May 22, 2013 by rsuhandy

[KnightGreg]

G'reggy of Don't Worry Bout It here. From what I read there is a bit of a dispute on DWBI accomplishing HMSaV. Here are 2 Combat Logs uploaded on TORParse of Dath-Cody and myself when we beat Dread Master Styrak. We are on separate time zones but the times are identical, the length of the fight is identical, and they are on the same date:

 

G'reggy - 20:55:03 - 21:03:34

http://www.torparse.com/a/233202

 

Dath-cody - 18:55:03 - 19:03:34

http://www.torparse.com/a/233198

 

Furthermore, here is a screenshot of my Achievement for downing HMSaV

http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag32/BluesFan74/WereGood_zpsdecafa22.jpg

 

If you require more, let me know on this Thread or in game and I will gladly do my best to get you the adequate information.

Edited May 22, 2013 by KnightGreg

[AntonMercer]

G'reggy of Don't Worry Bout It here. From what I read there is a bit of a dispute on DWBI accomplishing HMSaV. Here are 2 Combat Logs uploaded on TORParse of Dath-Cody and myself when we beat Dread Master Styrak. We are on separate time zones but the times are identical, the length of the fight is identical, and they are on the same date:

 

G'reggy - 20:55:03 - 21:03:34

http://www.torparse.com/a/233202

 

Dath-cody - 18:55:03 - 19:03:34

http://www.torparse.com/a/233198

 

Furthermore, here is a screenshot of my Achievement for downing HMSaV

http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag32/BluesFan74/WereGood_zpsdecafa22.jpg

 

If you require more, let me know on this Thread or in game and I will gladly do my best to get you the adequate information.

 

This is all well in good but this is only ONE person's achievement. We would need to see the ENTIRE group's achievement pages that were listed by your member in the above post. This would probably be the best proof the group could provide, and to even further prove it, it may be even better to present your character to SojournerNC themselves, in game, and allow him to inspect each one of the characters listed to see for themselves the achievement and the date.

Edited May 22, 2013 by AntonMercer
Added comments

[KnightGreg]

Furthermore, I'd like to add, as an individual, not as a member of DWBI, I am disappointed in my fellow gamers on Begeren Colony that they would so enthusiastically dismiss the achievements of others due to any per-formed opinions and biases. I would hope the people I get to share my server with would be humble and mutually appreciative enough toward the other guilds in the server in recognizing their achievements without bias in order to create a better gaming atmosphere. I sincerely hope all of you reassess opinions, actions, and beliefs in each other so we do not have to argue over petty things such as these. I understand you need proof to confirm that people have done the hardest Ops in the game so you don't have random guilds saying they have done them when they have not. However, your actions toward a member of my guild paint very poor pictures of yourselves. I urge you to reconsider how you are seen by others if you wish to find the kinds of friends I have in my guild.

 

Thank you.

[KnightGreg]

This is all well in good but this is only ONE person's achievement. We would need to see the ENTIRE group's achievement pages that were listed by your member in the above post. This would probably be the best proof the group could provide, and to even further prove it, it may be even better to present your character to SojournerNC themselves, in game, and allow him to inspect each one of the characters listed to see for themselves the achievement and the date.

 

If you look at Dath-cody's log and the individuals he was healing, they were: Amberlina, Dath-cody, Savar, G'reggy, Klehitt, Gagoogin, Bishuup, and Lirel. The individuals in Chyanis' screenshot outside SaV were Amberlina, Dath-cody, Savar, G'reggy, Klehitt, Gagoogin, Bishuup, and Lirel.

Edited May 22, 2013 by KnightGreg

[LaniAkavir]

Furthermore, I'd like to add, as an individual, not as a member of DWBI, I am disappointed in my fellow gamers on Begeren Colony that they would so enthusiastically dismiss the achievements of others due to any per-formed opinions and biases. I would hope the people I get to share my server with would be humble and mutually appreciative enough toward the other guilds in the server in recognizing their achievements without bias in order to create a better gaming atmosphere. I sincerely hope all of you reassess opinions, actions, and beliefs in each other so we do not have to argue over petty things such as these. I understand you need proof to confirm that people have done the hardest Ops in the game so you don't have random guilds saying they have done them when they have not. However, your actions toward a member of my guild paint very poor pictures of yourselves. I urge you to reconsider how you are seen by others if you wish to find the kinds of friends I have in my guild.

 

Thank you.

Greetings,

 

With sincerity, I hope you, and your fellow guildies, reassess the way you are responding to our inquiries.

 

It is already odd enough that you guys are giving us pieces of evidence which held some uncertainties; the way you guys are responding doesn't make the situation any better.

 

It is possible to alter the logs on the parse, and people have done so before. The previous group lockout screenshot isn't the rock-solid proof that we see, as well.

 

Many of us are, in fact, giving you guys the benefit of the doubt and asking for the achievements and their time of completion.

 

Such hostility is unnecessary, what we need here is solid evidence to cease the rumors and get past the mistakes.

 

Regards,

Kenji

Edited May 22, 2013 by LaniAkavir

[KnightGreg]

Greetings,

 

With sincerity, I hope you, and your fellow guildies, reassess the way you are responding to our inquiries.

 

It is already odd enough that you guys are giving us pieces of evidence which held some uncertainties; the way you guys are responding doesn't make the situation any better.

 

It is possible to alter the logs on the parse, and people have done so before. The previous group lockout screenshot isn't the rock-solid proof that we see, as well.

 

Many of us are, in fact, giving you guys the benefit of the doubt and asking for the achievements and their time of completion.

 

Such hostility is unnecessary, what we need here is solid evidence to cease the rumors and get past the mistakes.

 

Regards,

Kenji

 

Kenji, if I came across as hostile, I sincerely apologize. My statements were my own and they do not reflect the opinions of my fellow guildmates as I cannot logically speak for them. That is why I began that reply in the manner I did.

 

As for you giving us the benefit of the doubt, I disagree. Do you honestly believe we would alter our logs just to get on this particular Thread? As for the screenshot, we are all aware there are a vast number of bugs in this game so is it such a stretch to say the lockout window shown was another bug? Furthermore, the picture of Dath with the pet seems to provide very strong evidence we did, indeed finish the Op has he was server-first to get it that we know of.

[Khevar]

We'll just run it again this week and post better screenshots. No worries.

[Helmholtzz]

There are a few points I want to emphasize here:

1. We all (including DWBI) want this thread to be rock solid. So if someone expresses concern towards the proof given we need to take it as a constructive criticism, not as a personal attack. If every concern is taken as a personal attack then people will stop asking questions to avoid controversy. This is not good for the thread as it will lose accountability.

2. The concern expressed here is legitimate because the lockout screen does not indicate whether the run was 8 man or 16 man. Moreover, the lockout screen got bugged and was not showing everyone as locked. I understand it is impossible to go back and take a screenshot after you have already left the instance but it is not very troublesome to request all your group member to take a screenshot of their achievement and post it here. The achievement screen will prove 2 things at the same time. It will confirm whether it was a 8 man or a 16 man run. It will also confirm that all 8 persons mentioned in the original post was there as it shows the kill time.

3. My personal (emphasis on personal) opinion is banning DWBI is an overkill. I don't know if Arashi talked with anyone from DWBI before taking the decision. if not they should be given the chance to defend themselves before a decision like banning is taken.

Edited May 22, 2013 by Helmholtzz

[Tmanarl]

This is all well in good but this is only ONE person's achievement. We would need to see the ENTIRE group's achievement pages that were listed by your member in the above post. This would probably be the best proof the group could provide, and to even further prove it, it may be even better to present your character to SojournerNC themselves, in game, and allow him to inspect each one of the characters listed to see for themselves the achievement and the date.

 

Sure it's the achievement for only one person, but it's also proof that something was screwy with the lockouts. In the original picture of the group lockouts, G'reggy's name appears in green, however he just proved that G'reggy did indeed have the achievement for defeating Styrak on HM 8 man.

 

The times all make sense as well. G'reggy's achievement was unlocked at 9:03:34 PM. TORParse lists the fight as ending at 21:03:34. The time on the in-game clock in the lockout picture shows 9:29 PM and the post on the forum was 9:37 PM.

 

Something is definitely screwy about the lockouts, but I would err on the side of it being a legit claim.

[Khevar]

...

 

It is already odd enough that you guys are giving us pieces of evidence which held some uncertainties; the way you guys are responding doesn't make the situation any better.

 

...

Coming back to this thread, I just have one other comment.

 

Surely you can see that a player would be put off by a claim that they were lying about defeating HM S/V, had actually altered logs, screenshots and were actively trying to fool everyone that Styrak was defeated. It's tantamount to saying, "You're not good enough to actually do this, we don't believe you, you're lying"

 

This is the reason for any less-than-calm response. Everyone was thrilled to have actually accomplished the feat. It was, for us, a moment of celebration. It was met with, "this is a false report and your guild is banned from posting on this thread"

 

Do you follow?

 

Now, to reiterate, the simplest solution, which we will be doing, is to do it again this week, take better screenshots, and that should satisfy everyone involved.

 

Hopefully that should clear this situation up.

[rsuhandy]

Coming back to this thread, I just have one other comment.

 

Surely you can see that a player would be put off by a claim that they were lying about defeating HM S/V, had actually altered logs, screenshots and were actively trying to fool everyone that Styrak was defeated. It's tantamount to saying, "You're not good enough to actually do this, we don't believe you, you're lying"

 

This is the reason for any less-than-calm response. Everyone was thrilled to have actually accomplished the feat. It was, for us, a moment of celebration. It was met with, "this is a false report and your guild is banned from posting on this thread"

 

Do you follow?

 

Now, to reiterate, the simplest solution, which we will be doing, is to do it again this week, take better screenshots, and that should satisfy everyone involved.

 

Hopefully that should clear this situation up.

 

I completely agree with you.

Though I would like to add that we haven't actually heard Arashi reply since the "banning".

Perhaps he could elaborate on what evidence he has that would convince him of false reporting.

Based on what has been presented in the thread I don't see anything that would suggest such an infraction,

but perhaps he has information that would say otherwise.

Edited May 22, 2013 by rsuhandy

[Helmholtzz]

Dead on Arrival cleared the 16 man SM S&V. We were missing 3 bosses: Thrasher, Operations Chief and Oolok the Shadow. We cleared them. I forgot to take a screenshot for these 3 (the other 4 were posted in the thread) but its story mode . But if we must provide a screenshot I can ask the raid members to post their achievements in the thread.

[DerekDrake]

Furthermore, I'd like to add, as an individual, not as a member of DWBI, I am disappointed in my fellow gamers on Begeren Colony that they would so enthusiastically dismiss the achievements of others due to any per-formed opinions and biases. I would hope the people I get to share my server with would be humble and mutually appreciative enough toward the other guilds in the server in recognizing their achievements without bias in order to create a better gaming atmosphere. I sincerely hope all of you reassess opinions, actions, and beliefs in each other so we do not have to argue over petty things such as these. I understand you need proof to confirm that people have done the hardest Ops in the game so you don't have random guilds saying they have done them when they have not. However, your actions toward a member of my guild paint very poor pictures of yourselves. I urge you to reconsider how you are seen by others if you wish to find the kinds of friends I have in my guild.

 

Thank you.

 

You request people's trust and respect and yet you couldn't provide enough proof. If you want something from the people, convincing is the first step you need to do. And you failed. I know many people from your ops group, they were my guildmates before DWBI. I do believe they can clear S&V HM.

 

But in this thread you're asking for players in server's for recognition here, convince them. It's like this: would you trust and take in a random level 55 in fleet and run S&V HM with your group? No, because you will doubt his/her ability to finish the ops. Same principle here in this thread.

[raidmac]

After giving DWBI the benefit of the doubt, I went and looked at gagoogin's achievements and it does not indicate that he has completed HM Styrax. Screenshot is included.

 

http://i.imgur.com/FLV4seD.jpg

 

Im not saying that they didnt do it, but this seems very suspicious to me.

[Khevar]

After giving DWBI the benefit of the doubt, I went and looked at gagoogin's achievements and it does not indicate that he has completed HM Styrax. Screenshot is included.

 

http://i.imgur.com/FLV4seD.jpg

 

Im not saying that they didnt do it, but this seems very suspicious to me.

Since the other screenshot showed a weird lockout pattern (i.e. some of the group was locked out and others weren't) I'm sure this is related and there is some sort of bug.

 

BUT, as I've stated a couple of times in this thread, we're simply running it again, and will post adequate documentation.

 

This should end the matter.

[rsuhandy]

@ Khevar I feel like you are missing the point people are trying to make.

Originally it showed that G'reggy was not locked out but had the achievement.

There has not been any reported issues with the achievement that is awarded from the HM Styrak fight.

I don't feel like posting new screen shots this week will end the matter.

Obviously G'reggy has completed HM Styrak, he has the achievement.

The fact that one person in your group doesn't have the achievement should have been mentioned earlier

as now it looks like you were being deceitful. The original poster from your guild never mentioned that group

member achievements were bugged. This is an honor system and people may be more likely to suspect any future posts that come from your guild from now on. The fact that Thorazine found evidence that your guild omitted in the first place is the largest problem.

[Zenithan]

For the record, I've seen people not get the achievement on Styrak before despite them being there for the kill. They got it on the next kill.