I think you are missing the point that some people here are trying to make. Which is, players like you are leaps and bounds better then the average TOR player. It doesn't matter if players of your caliber have never played the class before, you'll still outperform 90% of pugs since you have learned to play other classes and the game in general. The point some people are making is that the average PUG won't have the dps output to meet the DPS check that is present in 16man SM Torque. Realistically I think that is a true statement, however I also agree with you that this is also a bit of a L2P issue as well. However, ignoring the L2P issue, you have to keep in mind that the average TOR player may not have as easy a time learning how to play a class as you do, in fact based on what I know about you I can pretty much guarantee that the average TOR player will have a hard time out dpsing you on a 4th or 5th string alt in gear that is 2 tiers higher then what you have. To be frank I would estimate that the average TOR player, not raider, would pull around 3K dps on a dummy in full 192s. Yes I know you can basically spam one or two abilities and hit that mark, however I feel like you assume that the average player will actually use 90% of their gcds to do something productive, when in reality it's probably more along the lines of 50%-60%, and in a fight probably more along the lines of 30%-40%. The reality is the average player will not use abilities while moving out of fire, they will move to a different spot which may take them 3gcds and then stop, align their camera, and click on their abilities. This is storymode ops which should be accessible to as much of the TOR community as possible, and while I don't particularly care if 16man SM torque is nerfed or not, I really do believe that the majority of PUGS will not be able to clear this boss based on the DPS check. My opinion is that they either need to buff the health of 8man SM torque in line with 16man SM torque, or nerf 16man SM torque health to be in line with 8man. At least then people won't be discouraged from doing 16man GF since it won't be any harder then 8man.

Ah I see, that's how things are now. Thanks for clearing all that up. No wonder all the apps we get from BC are full of parse hero's that pull 4.9 on a dummy and pull can't break 3.3K on the walkers....

Lol this is 1 of 2 DPS leaderboards available, which I find hilarious btw. It's pretty amusing to see how worked up you are. Basically it sounds to me that you are upset about someone being able to generate more virtual numbers then you can with your current gear. Honestly you guys should make whichever thread has more submissions the primary DPS leaderboard. The amusing thing is that your guild has cleared some HM content so I can assume you have some 198 gear. Since you care so much why don't you take it as a handicap/challenge to go beat people's parses who have better gear then you?

Double Proc glitch AFAIK only significantly affects marauders and ops on the dummy, at least for melee. Into the fray requires you to take damage in order to activate as well as adrenaline rush. I guess PTs could spec into guard cannon that would possibly give them an extra proc but it would be no where near as beneficial as that of marauders and ops.

Not to derail your general point of this thread which I am in agreement with. However, at least according to torparse, which is buggy as hell, There are at least two melee specs that can break 5K on a 1 Mil dummy; Vanguard/PT and Sentinel/Marauder. This is more to point out that besides for I/O ranged and Melee can pull similar numbers on a static target. Furthermore, it seems that the only classes able to break 5K, at least on Torparse, are I/O Mercs, Eng Snipers, Pyro PTs, and Anni Marauders. I also have seen a screen shot of a 5K Lightning parse by stomach on another thread. So that leaves the 5K club at currently 3 ranged and 2 melee which doesn't seem that bad on paper. But yes for most groups ranged is still the better choice and until mechanics that disrupt ranged dps uptime are designed this will continue to be the trend.

Or better yet just kill this thread till NIM comes out. HM progression is completely meaningless now.

Knowing when to pop adrenals in a rotation is very important to achieve maximum DPS. Using adrenals raises the skill cap and adds another variable to each dps rotation. If you ban adrenals then what will you do when you are in an operation? Just pop it whenever you feel like it?

Also it's been longer then 3 weeks more like 2 month IIRC since Reign's NIM Bestia Kill.

I mean NIM Bestia isn't very hard to begin with so I just never thought to ask about the legitimacy of the kill. I have no idea what Kenji plans to do with the thread, but it looks like it is still being updated.

Ok, So reign's kill is exploited got it... You guys should be server first then.

Why wouldn't the kill with the Reign method count?

There is at least one that didn't post which would be myself. Felden Sentinel

You know this has been around for awhile and many guilds have missed Gate Crasher due to this.

Update for Orazio 4min 3.6s http://www.torparse.com/a/729911/7/0/Damage+Dealt

Update for Tonari 4min 24.8s http://www.torparse.com/a/726350/time/1405993784/1405994049/0/Overview