My respec costs 36550 credits now

[welshnproud]

When you are two years into gathering rare items, achievements, collectibles (mounts, pets) and other things - plus, you have a server rep because many recognize your character's name - just rolling a new character to do the other role your advanced class is capable of seems very negative.

 

I completely understand the point between not allowing AC changing; however, dual spec in this day and time is an absolute necessity.

 

its not a nessecity, its something people like but do not need. i want never gets i learned that in reception. no-one needs dual spec and no-one needs to respec, they want dual spec,

[Nocturneus]

its not a necessity, its something people like but do not need. i want never gets i learned that in reception. no-one needs dual spec and no-one needs to respec, they want dual spec,

 

Agreed. One of the leading points of the opposing sides argument seems to be that without respecs no one will play healers or tanks. What in the world is this based upon?

 

There are plenty of players out there, as demonstrated in this thread, who would happily play both those roles (if not moreso) because there are no respecs. Heaven forbid players in an online social game are forced to be interactive by making friends with healers and tanks so that in the future, they would have to wait less and less time to run things.

 

However, in that situation people might have to actually behave accordingly as decent people in groups and play with some level of skill or get blacklisted. That's definitely not going to appeal to the fanboy masses. So...DUAL SPECS PLEZ.

[Raeln]

The more a human being does something, the better they become at it (even if it is in a very small marginality). It's a concept called practice, I am sure you are familiar with it.

 

With almost absolute certainty, someone who has played and leveled a character over many months, even years, who is set in a specific role with that character; will be a better player with that type of character than someone who either hit max level in one week (because the game is made for easymode masses) or constantly switches specs with that character to a polar opposite (dps to heals etc).

 

Of course WoW has been the most successful game, its tailored almost every single aspect of it's gameplay to cater to the masses who don't wish to become truly skilled or devote the time necessary to do so.

 

If games played the exact same at end game as they do at level 1 - I'd agree. We all know that isn't the case. Gear progression, talent setups and even interaction between specific class specs alter how the game is played at end game.

 

How a class heals at level 20 is not indicative of how that class will heal at level 50. Sure - it is similar, but it's not going to be the same. This is compounded even more in games where there are bonuses for wearing set gear when those bonuses make specific heal spells more powerful than they otherwise would be. Even then, without set gear bonuses - some heal spells scale at different speeds than others to the point where at X number of "healing power stat", heal spell B overtakes heal spell A in efficiency.

 

Trying to act like someone needs 50 levels of pure healing just to be able to heal rudimentary groups is just ludicrous. What is required is knowledge of end game. Someone could hand me a level 50 Imperial Agent and within 10 minutes of reading a few websites - I could heal like an IA that leveled 50 levels as a healer. NOTE: I have never played an IA at all.

 

The difference is that I've healed in several MMOs. I know what needs to happen - all I need to know about a class is how their abilities interact and that changes greatly from low levels to high levels, especially with the total number of talents available at the time.

[Lagmonster]

WoW is the 'most popular' mmo to date because children have dumbed down so much more. and with that games have dumbed down to accomadate those children. A true mmorpg is about the storyline, the choices you can make, the actions that can change your characters place in the world. wow had none of that wow was all about grinding to end game, playing raids which a 2 year old could do and then calling yourself hardcore. It may have sold the most copies and have the most active subscribtions but it is definitley not the best mmo ever made. only a 13 year old would say that and thats only because thats what they grew up with. games need to revert back to the old styles otherwise they are just going to lose customers as children become more aware of what they are playing they will get bored of pandas,

 

O and this is star wars, star wars is old, therefor this game appeals to alot of older people,

 

 

Thats all you people can ever come up with "dumbed down". Its like an old broken record. And how else are you going to measure success if your not going off sales and number of people playing it? Your own personal bias? Yeah thats the way to measure stuff alright.

 

I don't like the majority of Rap, but I'm not going to sit here denying its success.

 

Wow's success is no different

 

If you were smart you'd be advocating for what kept wow successful all these years, while keeping what you didn't like out. And I'm sorry but dual speccing/respeccing is not a thing that was driving people away, get real. You people simple amaze me by wanting to actively campaign against your own community to try and drive it into the gutter. The community is what keeps an MMO alive at the end of the day, should be all for what keeps people playing. Cause respeccing has zero negative effects on you as a gamer. Start naming off what respeccing takes away from you personally? Only thing I can think of is if you suck *** and get replaced by guy who can dps and heal on your endgame team. And in that case, stop sucking "Mr. Hardcore"

[Raeln]

its not a nessecity, its something people like but do not need. i want never gets i learned that in reception. no-one needs dual spec and no-one needs to respec, they want dual spec,

 

I didn't say it was a necessity - especially just to play the game in a basic manner.

 

In a few months, when a significant portion of the playerbase is sitting at level 50 and wanting to run Flashpoints - it will be a necessity to draw those that do not want to be permanent healers/tanks into filling in for the benefit of the community as a whole.

 

Having dual spec is far greater than having a dead end game due to lack of tanks and healers.

[Lagmonster]

The more a human being does something, the better they become at it (even if it is in a very small marginality). It's a concept called practice, I am sure you are familiar with it.

 

With almost absolute certainty, someone who has played and leveled a character over many months, even years, who is set in a specific role with that character; will be a better player with that type of character than someone who either hit max level in one week (because the game is made for easymode masses) or constantly switches specs with that character to a polar opposite (dps to heals etc).

 

Of course WoW has been the most successful game, its tailored almost every single aspect of it's gameplay to cater to the masses who don't wish to become truly skilled or devote the time necessary to do so.

 

Everything has a skill cap or skill ceiling, whatever you want to call it. This is not hard to achieve for anyone who gives a damn. Don't go comparing someone whos been playing for months or years to someone who just started. And try and use that as an argument on why you shouldn't have dual spec. Thats complete and total rubbish.

 

And yeah man wow is so ez mode that everyone just goes and steam rolls all the heroic content when it first comes out. How about you do something other then heroic 5 mans and come back and talk with the big kids

[Shimmer-Holler]

o and i have been in more mmo launches than you have ate hot meals. and i played wow until i realised there was no story, an mmorpg needs a story wow dosn't have one.

 

Back to topic…

I’d expect dual specs for any game that has PvP and/or raiding. Some people are content with being in the top XX% while others strive to be the best. Sometimes you may need to fill a different role to help out some friends. And others like diversity.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Meluna

[Lagmonster]

If games played the exact same at end game as they do at level 1 - I'd agree. We all know that isn't the case. Gear progression, talent setups and even interaction between specific class specs alter how the game is played at end game.

 

How a class heals at level 20 is not indicative of how that class will heal at level 50. Sure - it is similar, but it's not going to be the same. This is compounded even more in games where there are bonuses for wearing set gear when those bonuses make specific heal spells more powerful than they otherwise would be. Even then, without set gear bonuses - some heal spells scale at different speeds than others to the point where at X number of "healing power stat", heal spell B overtakes heal spell A in efficiency.

 

Trying to act like someone needs 50 levels of pure healing just to be able to heal rudimentary groups is just ludicrous. What is required is knowledge of end game. Someone could hand me a level 50 Imperial Agent and within 10 minutes of reading a few websites - I could heal like an IA that leveled 50 levels as a healer. NOTE: I have never played an IA at all.

 

The difference is that I've healed in several MMOs. I know what needs to happen - all I need to know about a class is how their abilities interact and that changes greatly from low levels to high levels, especially with the total number of talents available at the time.

 

 

This is just crazy talk, you need to log thousands of hours to be able to play right!!!!

[Nocturneus]

 

If you were smart you'd be advocating for what kept wow successful all these years, while keeping what you didn't like out. And I'm sorry but dual speccing/respeccing is not a thing that was driving people away, get real. You people simple amaze me by wanting to actively campaign against your own community to try and drive it into the gutter. The community is what keeps an MMO alive at the end of the day, should be all for what keeps people playing. Cause respeccing has zero negative effects on you as a gamer. Start naming off what respeccing takes away from you personally? Only thing I can think of is if you suck *** and get replaced by guy who can dps and heal on your endgame team. And in that case, stop sucking "Mr. Hardcore"

 

What kept WoW successful all these years are the very things that make those of us who were original fans of the MMO genre hate it. Ridiculously easy content at all levels of play, no consequences whatsoever for bad play, or rude and ignorant behavior as well as the idea that "This game is hard, MAKE IT EASIER OR ILL THREATEN TO UNSUB" which led to the majority of the actually appealing features of WoW endgame and pvp to get the axe.

 

Respeccing itself has become somewhat necessary in modern MMO's I will agree. I take issue with the ability to be able to do it on the fly and an unlimited amount of times. This does have a negative effect on me personally as a gamer because it allows a large majority of players who lack the skill of more dedicated ones, to clog up the system of a game with lazy "I want it now" type play.

 

And please, if people should be worried about being replaced because of dual specs, it should be the non-hardcore players. I guarantee any "Mr. Hardcores" who are playing healers or tanks, could quick switch to their DPS role if they have one and parse casual and loudmoth DPS-only players under the table. Especially in modern MMO's. So ill sleep just fine at night when they add dual spec to cater to the masses.

[MasterKayote]

Their arguments always come down to pure selfishness in the end. Either they want less competition for loot, or they want less competition for group slots. That's why they rely on nonsense arguments like "choices should matter!" instead of telling you what they really think.

 

Yup. Its the only way it makes sense. 'Choices matter' is about a thin an argument as it gets. Those arguing against it are the Tanks and Healers that dont mind taking forever to kill ****, already get easier groups going because theyre tanks and healers, and it costs them nothing.

 

You want choices to matter? Worry about whether or not you kill the Captain in BT. Try to bring back killing the stupid pets Bioware gives us absolutely no choice on.

 

Dont worry about whether or not X player has a separate tank spec to help the community as a whole form groups in under an hour.

[Raeln]

What kept WoW successful all these years are the very things that make those of us who were original fans of the MMO genre hate it. Ridiculously easy content at all levels of play, no consequences whatsoever for bad play, or rude and ignorant behavior as well as the idea that "This game is hard, MAKE IT EASIER OR ILL THREATEN TO UNSUB" which led to the majority of the actually appealing features of WoW endgame and pvp to get the axe.

 

Respeccing itself has become somewhat necessary in modern MMO's I will agree. I take issue with the ability to be able to do it on the fly and an unlimited amount of times. This does have a negative effect on me personally as a gamer because it allows a large majority of players who lack the skill of more dedicated ones, to clog up the system of a game with lazy "I want it now" type play.

 

And please, if people should be worried about being replaced because of dual specs, it should be the non-hardcore players. I guarantee any "Mr. Hardcores" who are playing healers or tanks, could quick switch to their DPS role if they have one and parse casual and loudmoth DPS-only players under the table. Especially in modern MMO's. So ill sleep just fine at night when they add dual spec to cater to the masses.

 

Just calling out the bolded section as nonsense.

[avictor]

I'm a Inq healer and I have NO ISSUES KILLING STUFF. I have solo'd my entire class line up to lvl 31 which is my current lvl.

[Nocturneus]

 

And yeah man wow is so ez mode that everyone just goes and steam rolls all the heroic content when it first comes out. How about you do something other then heroic 5 mans and come back and talk with the big kids

 

Yes, because it takes what...a month, maybe a little more after the release of a new raid in WoW for the best hardcore guilds to get it on farm status? That sure sounds insurmountably challenging.

 

Also, if "hardcore old mmo's" are so dead and stagnant, why is is that Everquest, over almost two decades after it's release, continues to have a large number of subs, release expansions on a regular basis, and enjoy continued success?

[Godsfear]

o and i have been in more mmo launches than you have ate hot meals. and i played wow until i realised there was no story, an mmorpg needs a story wow dosn't have one.

i also know more about this genre than you will ever know in your sad pathetic life.

o and im also not a young american white boy. im a 17 year old female studying programming in college and live in wales. no where near america. and judging by the way you disrespected america im going to hazard a guess that your english which means you will now insult my country, but who cares you have no freinds and sit in your mam's basement 24/7

 

You're not even old enough to experience mmo lauches. *** are you talking about.

 

I'm 35, I preordered WOW, WARhammer, Rift, COH, and now STWORS. Oh yeah fricking Tabula Rasa too.

 

Those are just the ones I've launched with. I've played most of the other major mmo's to some extent.

 

serious, as a long time player dual speccing is standard now.

 

There is no reason to penalize players.

 

Why would a company that wants our money penalize us?

 

That makes no sense. Steam and Google and arguably apple have been succesful because of giving customers what they want. Are you arguing against Google and Apples business strategy?

 

Steam gives players cheap games at discounted prices even though the industry like EA say you can't be successful that way. Steam has proven them wrong. Giving players what they want creates loyalty.

 

Another example is RIOT games makers of League of Legends. Now the biggest Video game in the world dwarfing WOW. LOL has over 16 million players now. The devs also make champs based on forum posts and communicate with their player base constantly.

 

Bw would do well to pay attention.

[Nocturneus]

Just calling out the bolded section as nonsense.

 

You're saying that the mentality of "I don't want to wait around to look for a good healer or tank" promotes good growth within a mmo?

[Omite]

/signed for a cap

[Lagmonster]

What kept WoW successful all these years are the very things that make those of us who were original fans of the MMO genre hate it. Ridiculously easy content at all levels of play, no consequences whatsoever for bad play, or rude and ignorant behavior as well as the idea that "This game is hard, MAKE IT EASIER OR ILL THREATEN TO UNSUB" which led to the majority of the actually appealing features of WoW endgame and pvp to get the axe.

 

Respeccing itself has become somewhat necessary in modern MMO's I will agree. I take issue with the ability to be able to do it on the fly and an unlimited amount of times. This does have a negative effect on me personally as a gamer because it allows a large majority of players who lack the skill of more dedicated ones, to clog up the system of a game with lazy "I want it now" type play.

 

And please, if people should be worried about being replaced because of dual specs, it should be the non-hardcore players. I guarantee any "Mr. Hardcores" who are playing healers or tanks, could quick switch to their DPS role if they have one and parse casual and loudmoth DPS-only players under the table. Especially in modern MMO's. So ill sleep just fine at night when they add dual spec to cater to the masses.

 

 

Again over generalizing saying its all ez lulzlulz. I think your still stuck in wrath thinking from when I'm assuming you unsubbed around that time frame. which I won't disagree with at that time frame. Cata's heroic mode content is not "ez" while its current.

 

I'm sorry that what drove you away was blizzard trying to give everyone a game to play. You just want the old days where everything had to be hardcore or die trying. And that doesn't make money I'm sorry to tell you that. And I'm fine with giving everyone something to do. Because I care about them still making my hardmode content. All those people that keep playing who aren't "hardcore" keep the money flowing in so I have a product at endgame I can enjoy.

 

And why you went on a tangent about my "mr. hardcore" part is beyond me. Cause you only said what I said, and trying to act like I wasn't saying it lol.

[Raeln]

Yes, because it takes what...a month, maybe a little more after the release of a new raid in WoW for the best hardcore guilds to get it on farm status? That sure sounds insurmountably challenging.

 

Also, if "hardcore old mmo's" are so dead and stagnant, why is is that Everquest, over almost two decades after it's release, continues to have a large number of subs, release expansions on a regular basis, and enjoy continued success?

 

EQ1 does not have a "large" number of subs. Some guesses put it at somewhere between 20k to 30k active subscriptions right now.

[islander]

This is terrible. I have to go back to healing, and back to gunnery (dps) in order to heal some heroics and flashpoints. But when questing as a healer, ITS MISERABLY SLOW.

 

Make respecs like 10k credits max. I don't understand why you feel the need to charge outrageous sums of credits for a respec.

 

I mean if you aren't going to have some form of dual spec at launch, make sure that respccing doesn't cost me my genitals.

 

I know why.

 

Because they don't want you waffling like Newt Gingrich or Mitt Romney in game.

 

Make your choice and work with it.

[Raeln]

You're saying that the mentality of "I don't want to wait around to look for a good healer or tank" promotes good growth within a mmo?

 

There is a difference between waiting 10 minutes and waiting 3 hours.

 

I've done both. Even with the "potluck" of a random dungeon finder, I had more fun overall with dual specs and 10 minute waits than I did with 3 hour waits and no dual specs.

 

Let's not forget travel times either. I hope you enjoy finding that healer that is 30 minutes of running away from your Flashpoint.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Raeln

[Nahela]

There's really no reason to not have a dual-spec system in this game when the majority of the ACs are designed to fill multiple roles. The point should be to promote people having the ability to play multiple roles so groups are easier to find for everybody.

 

Restrictive Respec systems just promote less grouping, the opposite of the point of a MMO.

[Lagmonster]

Yes, because it takes what...a month, maybe a little more after the release of a new raid in WoW for the best hardcore guilds to get it on farm status? That sure sounds insurmountably challenging.

 

Also, if "hardcore old mmo's" are so dead and stagnant, why is is that Everquest, over almost two decades after it's release, continues to have a large number of subs, release expansions on a regular basis, and enjoy continued success?

 

If its so damn easy go do it? Oh wait I'm sure you can't. Your talking about the best of the best logging hundreds or even thousands of hours to clear content as fast as they can for world firsts. That by its nature is hardcore, if its not what would you call hard my good sir? Never downing anything?

 

And good for those old mmo's, releasing such a good product that everyone is just flocking to play it.

[Raeln]

There's really no reason to not have a dual-spec system in this game when the majority of the ACs are designed to fill multiple roles. The point should be to promote people having the ability to play multiple roles so groups are easier to find for everybody.

 

Restrictive Respec systems just promote less grouping, the opposite of the point of a MMO.

 

Yes, exactly.

 

It's so much fun when both me and my friends log on and are the same spec. With dual spec, one of us could switch and still play together. With the old EQ1 model, well... we can chat with each other as one of us levels a brand new alt, I guess.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Raeln

[Syas]

Restrictive Respec systems just promote less grouping, the opposite of the point of a MMO.

 

Restrictive Respec systems develop better server communities because of the devotion one eventually puts into a singular role.

 

See, I can make baseless claims to.

 

At the end of the day, there are reasons to do it, and there are reasons not to. Very few games have dual-spec, and considering how story based this game is, I wouldn't be surprised if the idea here was to encourage multiple characters (especially considering legacy system). Dual-spec would be a step backward if that is the system they hope to achieve. I am not sure if I like that, but it makes sense to me.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Syas

[SithInitiate]

for people that are ok with the cost of respec..

 

be prepared to pay a healer for a FP run. yes, there will probably be payed runs when dual spec comes out.. but its going to be even worse now. who in their right mind is going to pay upwards of 40k just to do an FP run for a pug.. yeah.. not a lot of people.

 

and i understand that you can level as a healer.. but some players PREFER their dps spec just because they like that role better.. but occasionally, they wouldnt mind being a healer if its needed.. this type of thing will be a rare occurrence though as it currently stands.. because, again, who in their right mind would pay upwards of 40k, just to heal an occasional PUG.

 

i know i wont. im a nice guy.. but im not that nice.