A Tale of Two Games: ToR and WoW - Review!

[otterscrubber]

 

It's too bad SWTOR's space game is a pointless single player rail shooter. If that had been done right then I could see myself being here a long time. I have no use for rail shooters though, and never play SWTOR's.

 

I actually like that it's a very basic rail shooter, game-within-a-game, rather than something you have to really focus on, building both your ship and your character. Star Trek online tried this and failed miserably. They are a pleasant diversion nothing more, nothing less. I think that fits in well, at least for my play style.

[JPThunda]

Ok. I legitimately read through you wall of text, and quite frankly, most or it is hogwash or grossly opinionated. Granted, the whole post is your perceptions and your opinion of the game.

 

With that out of the way, let's begin.

 

Your assesment of the story: You don't like side quests.

 

Fair enough, some won't, I enjoyed most of them. Were some of them tedious? Absolutely, but not all, and not most. They added flavor to the story and added humanity to your character in the story driven setting. For example, on Corellia, are you a man on a mission as a merchant of death, or do you have time to turn on some holo-statues to raise morale at the personal request of a wounded soldier? Moments like that one stuck with me, and I enjoyed them for it.

 

Additionally, with regards to the back-and-forth, I really don't know what you mean by that. The only time I ever experienced that was when I legitimately missed a quest on the first outing. And with regard to bonus quests, more often than not they were giving you additional credit for something you were already doing. Hit 5 panels and a bonus to kill 15 dudes? How convenient that each panel is guarded by 3 dudes. Some had you go above and beyond the call, but those had their own additional, typically commendation, reward.

 

Your assesment of combat: You miss the auto attack, think stealth is quirky, and find cover ineffective and wasteful.

 

Firstly, if you're spamming your basic attack button, you're doing it wrong. There is almost always a better button to push, or you're grossly mismanaging your resources. Claim all you want about professionalism in your gameplay, if you're spamming it, you done ****ed up son. The game does not use a rotation that must include that ability, contrary to WoW where you had to go out of your way to not miss an auto attack or lose DPS. Instead, it's a purely liquid priority system. Hit the best button, don't roll your hand across the keyboard. Sure, some abilities will naturally flow into one another, and that's just good engineering on the game dev's part. In summary, don't expect your auto attack to be in top 4 on recount in this game.

 

Stealth being quirky. Can't speak much from experience, haven't played a stealth class. From Shadows/Assassins and Scoundrels/Operatives, it seems like exactly what it should be, a gap closer that enables you to alpha/opener first. From Marauders/Sentinels, it's an escape. I actually agree, Marauders/Sentinels don't need an in combat vanish to break combat. That's unnecessary, but otherwise, it seems to work just fine.

 

Now to cover, I wholeheartedly disagree. Cover works just fine, and is unGodly in a PVP setting. A situationally aware Sniper/Gunslinger can hold a point, solo, from multiple aggressors long enough for help to arrive. It adds additional bonuses, interrupt immunity, leap immunity, harpoon immunity, while in cover, not to mention the damage reduction. Working just fine, and I am lead to believe that, in this part most of all, you're talking out your ***.

 

Your assesment of PVE and levelling: Flashpoints good, grouping hard, Voices wasteful.

 

I agree, flashpoints are good. I agree, grouping is difficult. There needs to be a LFG tool, as simple as a server-wide channel or as complex as a listing panel, that works for your server and your server only. Cross server dungeon finders KILLED serverside communities. It was a MISTAKE. Same goes for PVP battlegrounds. Will a LFG tool eventually rear its head? Yeah. Should it have been in at launch? Yes. Is it a game killer on its own? Nope.

 

Your assesment of PVP: You hate Huttball(GASP), world pvp, and dislike the lack of variety.

 

Huttball should not be open to the public queue. You should have to queue specifically for it in an 8-man op premade. The game requires too much communication and coordination to effectively play with random people pulled in from the fleet. That said, when you do have a premade or near-premade actually get in together, it is a lot of fun.

 

As far as the other warzones go, they're a lot of fun, and I have no doubt that more will come with time. For the longest time WoW only had Alterac Valley and Warsong Gulch. Then came Arathi Basin, and the others long, long after. More will be added in time, some a hit, some a miss, but the current 3 we have now are perfectly acceptable, assuming changes are made to Huttball.

 

World PVP is much less grandiose that Vanilla WoW had, but it's also much more scripted. Southshore and Tarren Mill was a spontaneous occurence, not by design, and came from the two hubs being close to one another. We don't really see many hubs close together geographically in TOR. Ilum is suffering from Wintergrasp Syndrome. One side controls it all of the time. The difference is that it's not a complete lockout to the other faction. Ilumgrasp does need a change to fix population imbalance, either a pop limit on the PVP zone, larger side having 1.1x the smaller side MAX, i.e. if you have 30 people, they have 33, minimum 20 per side, OR a tenacity-esque buff, much as I hate to admit that, as I hated the Tenacity system.

 

With respect to companions, yes they are glorified pets, but they play a sigfnificant role in your story, much more so than my lightning ghost wolf. And we agree on crafting.

 

And finally, nope, game's not DOA as you presume. UI mods dumb they game down(looking at you DBM), so I dislike them, but I'm sure they'll eventually worm their way in for the functioning ******* that want to play. A combat log would be nice, but isn't necessary so long as you pay attention to a fight, and it will come along eventually, I'm sure(and has been stated by devs). Talked about LFG above.

 

Now, the other stuff. Competivtive PVP(which I enjoy). Guild achievements and skill trees. Those features took WoW YEARS to implement. Competitive PVP DID NOT EXIST outside of the old title system in vanilla, and arenas only showed up in TBC, with rated BG's and the guild **** only appearing in Cata. The groundwork for that kind of stuff takes a lot of time to make, and if you expect a gaming company to eat the bill for an extra 3 years of development to get that **** all set out then you have no clue how the industry works. That kind of stuff is secondary, and quite frankly, I'm surprised that there has been talk of an arena system from the devs so soon after launch.

 

People like you, the OP, are posting this crap for your daily overinflated ego stroking, comparing a game that is a little over a month old to a game that had years to lay this kind of groundwork. Go out into the world and develop some common sense before you post more of this kind of drivel.

[Avrose]

Sadly though I could care less

/seethe

 

lol, calm down I hate it too.

[Dantragk]

I actually like that it's a very basic rail shooter, game-within-a-game, rather than something you have to really focus on, building both your ship and your character. Star Trek online tried this and failed miserably. They are a pleasant diversion nothing more, nothing less. I think that fits in well, at least for my play style.

 

I want Space PVP where we fight for planets multiple times per day with a limited number of players allowed so that Empire wouldn't win 100% of the time due to 3:1 population on servers. And after say 30min - an hour of trying to destroy the other teams capital ship who ever wins the fight gets to do dailies on the planet that SURPASS what you can buy on Ilum and are equal to raid mods. But you only maintain the planet for say 4 hours before the space battle begins again. This would be a open world of a fairly large map. Something like this would be completely awesome D;

[Barathos]

Now to cover, I wholeheartedly disagree. Cover works just fine, and is unGodly in a PVP setting. A situationally aware Sniper/Gunslinger can hold a point, solo, from multiple aggressors long enough for help to arrive. It adds additional bonuses, interrupt immunity, leap immunity, harpoon immunity, while in cover, not to mention the damage reduction. Working just fine, and I am lead to believe that, in this part most of all, you're talking out your ***.

 

Erm... I'm gonna disagree. At first, I loved cover, great idea. As soon as I started pvping I noticed some issues. You can get knocked out of it, stunned out of it, and people can totally play ring-around-the-pole and kill you.

 

Also, you can (for some bizarre reason or another) roll into cover that is BELOW you. Yes, I know about the cover-in-place button, but when you're in a tight situation, you kinda just press whichever cover button is most convenient.

 

The good news is, most people ignore you, but when an operative gets on you, buh bye!

[Avrose]

Erm... I'm gonna disagree. At first, I loved cover, great idea. As soon as I started pvping I noticed some issues. You can get knocked out of it, stunned out of it, and people can totally play ring-around-the-pole and kill you.

 

Also, you can (for some bizarre reason or another) roll into cover that is BELOW you. Yes, I know about the cover-in-place button, but when you're in a tight situation, you kinda just press whichever cover button is most convenient.

 

The good news is, most people ignore you, but when an operative gets on you, buh bye!

 

Well all that can be fixed (minus the roll into cover below bug) with a healthy dose of situational awareness.

[Amenian]

Actually wasn't even talking about that. I was specifically talking about TOR and only TOR. But since you brought it up. At least in WoW I had multiple zones that I could level up in instead of just one planet per level range.

Yes, you have two options at some level ranges, resulting in two possible stories (not including starter zones as SWtOR has those too). So WoW = 2 storylines per faction

 

SWToR has 4 class storylines per faction, not including good/evil, male/female options as these mainly just change a few lines of dialogue. Thus SWtOR = 4 storylines per faction.

 

4 > 2. My point stands.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Amenian

[Dantragk]

Yes, you have two options at some level ranges, resulting in two possible stories (not including starter zones as SWtOR has those too). So WoW = 2 storylines per faction

 

SWToR has 4 class storylines per faction, not including good/evil, male/female options as these mainly just change a few lines of dialogue. Thus SWtOR = 4 storylines per faction.

 

4 > 2. My point stands.

 

Umm, except no.

 

WoW:

 

At each level range I can go to more than 1 zone per level range. So even if it's a total of 2 or 3 per level range it's still more than 1 for TOR.

 

TOR:

 

Every class on every side follows the exact same planet string. Every class quest goes to every exact temple/zone/area, hence all those red areas that you can't go in on your current class that says "must b x to enter"

 

If you consider 10% of the missions(if even that much) unique story lines then the same book in a different language must be a completely new story because of translation differences.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Dantragk

[Barathos]

Well all that can be fixed (minus the roll into cover below bug) with a healthy dose of situational awareness.

 

I notice the sorcerer coming at me, he stuns me, i'm out of cover. There, situational awareness done.

 

Operatives, stealth in BEHIND me (btw, why is stealth detection kinda ick in this game?), stunned, out of cover, waddling on my back aannnnd... maybe hopefully i'm not dead, but I probably am.

[Sleekit]

heard it all before.

 

the last line tho "long live titan" has me in stitches.

 

by all means put your faith in an original creation from blizzard. a company that's on record as saying "we don't do originality". a game that almost definitely is going to have "real ID" as standard when you sign the TOS, that's going to have in game advertising, that's going to see Battle.net become Activision's version of Steam as they leverage fanbois like you as a business asset to third parties (have fun sharing your real ID with the COD kiddys) and perhaps most frighteningly of all a game that who's lead is tigole bitties a rage filled hardcore EQ raider with no formal qualifications who's personally made some of the worst design decisions in the history of MMOs.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Sleekit

[Barathos]

heard it all before.

 

the last line tho "long live titan" has me in stitches.

 

by all means put your faith in an original creation from blizzard. a company that's on record as saying "we don't do originality". a game that almost definitely is going to have "real ID" as standard when you sign the TOS, that's going to have in game advertising, that's going to see Battle.net become Activision's version of Steam as they leverage fanbois like you as a business asset to third parties and perhaps most frighteningly of all a game that who's lead is tigole bitties a rage filled hardcore EQ raider with no formal qualifications who's made some of the worst design decisions in the history of MMOs.

 

You played TOR based off of a company that recently created DA2 that everybody (not me, I love DA2) said sucked and has NO experience in MMOs, much less a multiplayer option. (ME3 isn't out yet, it doesn't count)

[Sleekit]

ive never played a bioware game in my life before swtor. i play and enjoy swtor on the basis of my comparison with a great many other MMOs that i have and still do play. MMOs are what i know (and far more than one).

 

anyone, and i mean anyone, putting faith in an 100% original IP from blizzard ether doesn't know the company very well or is indulging in some serious rose tinted spectacle wearing fanboyism. this is a company that for at least the last 20 years has lived of the back of sequels to games derived from other people's original ideas. not their own. other peoples.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Sleekit

[dopebeats]

Didn't like WoW, too much of an EverQuest clone. Only played WoW a few weeks before cancelling. Played EQ for years and by the time I got to WoW was tired of that kind of gameplay.

 

SWTOR has a lot of similarities to EQ / WoW, but there are enough differences to make it enjoyable and a fresh experience. WoW is old and tired.

 

Still, SWTOR isn't different enough to keep me here for years. A few months and I'll be moving on.

 

It's too bad SWTOR's space game is a pointless single player rail shooter. If that had been done right then I could see myself being here a long time. I have no use for rail shooters though, and never play SWTOR's.

 

I played EQ for a longtime. WOW was not an EQ clone. Not even close. The way the combat worked in those games were completely COMPLETELY different. In fact there was so much about the game that was different. There mainly was no 'linked' mobs in EQ. EQ had classes whose main job was to pull. There were 'pull teams' and links. Melee attacks in EQ had pushback and properly positioning mobs in alot of situations involved adjusting the melee on certain push them into different spots. The hardest class to play in EQ was a bard, however wow essentially made every class as 'difficult' to play as a bard. I mean jesus healing in EQ amounted to 'Complete Heal' rotations. As much as you hate WOW you have to agree blizzard revolutionized MMOs with the release of WOW. The first time i saw a warrior charge and a mage blink. I thought those were the most interesting mechanics ever. WOW did somethings wrong but they did alot of things right.

[Mazikeen]

Unfortunately, the side quests are problematic and suffer from trivial subject matters ("blah blah click some turrets") or endless fetch questing (go to X, come back to Y, go to X again, now back to Y). This wouldn't have been a problem 10 years ago, but 2012 is almost here. WoW has moved us past the trivialities of fetch questing and now we do cool stuff like lassoing dragons, bombing runs or mind-controlling giants

 

I stopped reading right here

 

TOR HAS these quests. I've personally done 'control droid' quests, done 'bombing runs' (space combat, anyone?) and done 'fecth the creature' quests

 

The fact you act like TOR lacks these quests renders the rest of your post unworthy of my time

[dopebeats]

heard it all before.

 

the last line tho "long live titan" has me in stitches.

 

by all means put your faith in an original creation from blizzard. a company that's on record as saying "we don't do originality". a game that almost definitely is going to have "real ID" as standard when you sign the TOS, that's going to have in game advertising, that's going to see Battle.net become Activision's version of Steam as they leverage fanbois like you as a business asset to third parties (have fun sharing your real ID with the COD kiddys) and perhaps most frighteningly of all a game that who's lead is tigole bitties a rage filled hardcore EQ raider with no formal qualifications who's personally made some of the worst design decisions in the history of MMOs.

 

I argue that hiring and consulting people like Tigole was one of the main reasons WOW was as great as it was.

[Mazikeen]

I played EQ for a longtime. WOW was not an EQ clone. Not even close. The way the combat worked in those games were completely COMPLETELY different

 

I believe he was referring to the fact both are 'high fantasy' based MMOs as opposed to TOR, which is Sci-Fi based. In this respect he is correct and this is the exact reason I am playing SWTOR

[Sleekit]

I argue that hiring and consulting people like Tigole was one of the main reasons WOW was as great as it was.

no. the vast majority of the reasons wow was as great as it was no longer work at the company.

 

tigole is a man child with the bosses ear who can barely tolerate being questioned and who knows how to get rid of people that disagree with him. the guy got into personality conflicts with some of the best game designers in the industry and caused many of them to walk. he is, quite simply, one of the worst things that ever happened to blizzard.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Sleekit

[dopebeats]

I stopped reading right here

 

TOR HAS these quests. I've personally done 'control droid' quests, done 'bombing runs' (space combat, anyone?) and done 'fecth the creature' quests

 

The fact you act like TOR lacks these quests renders the rest of your post unworthy of my time

 

I'll tell you what kind of quest TOR does lack though. Like epic class quest, that especially teach you fundamentals of your classes. Remember the Hunter weapon quest in vanilla WOW. Getting Rok'delar and Lok'delar bow/staff and doing jump shots, which became essential to learning how to play a hunter specifically in a PVP environment, however weren't essential in the leveling process.

[Dantragk]

I stopped reading right here

 

TOR HAS these quests. I've personally done 'control droid' quests, done 'bombing runs' (space combat, anyone?) and done 'fecth the creature' quests

 

The fact you act like TOR lacks these quests renders the rest of your post unworthy of my time

 

Worst part about the space missions is that there are only about 4-5 of them, the rest are the exact same repeats but with more ships.

[Mazikeen]

I argue that hiring and consulting people like Tigole was one of the main reasons WOW was as great as it was.

 

I argue that WoW was as great as it was because it released when EQ1 was in it's death throes, EQ2 was facing some serious issues (largely a very, very angry EQ1 playerbase) and had no other real competition. The fact it lacked the 'difficulty' of EQ1 (such as death penalties) helped and word of mouth then spread

 

WoW was the Wii of the MMO world. It made MMOs more accessible and more acceptable to the larger population. THIS is why it did so well. Not it's like any other corporation that's 'too big to fail'... people are so invested in it they don't want to leave and others think 'more subs = better' instead of 'which do I personally enjoy most?'

[Mazikeen]

I'll tell you what kind of quest TOR does lack though. Like epic class quest, that especially teach you fundamentals of your classes

 

... they have an ENTIRE QUEST LINE that serves as the 'epic class quest'. Not only that, it's designed to be soloed (duoed if you count a companion as a person) and that alone is supposed to teach you about your class

 

Wow... just... wow

[Mazikeen]

Worst part about the space missions is that there are only about 4-5 of them, the rest are the exact same repeats but with more ships.

 

WoW is what, 7 years old? SWTOR is, technically, 2 months old. In addition to that it was released prematurely. Are you seriously comparing quantity of quests in a 2 month old game to the quantity in a 7 year old game?

[Kourage]

OP has not made a post on this forum in almost a month.

This thread is over a month old.

Someone necrod this thread after it went 2 weeks with no comments.

 

 

Let it die. Find another WoW vs SWTOR thread.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Kourage

[Dantragk]

WoW is what, 7 years old? SWTOR is, technically, 2 months old. In addition to that it was released prematurely. Are you seriously comparing quantity of quests in a 2 month old game to the quantity in a 7 year old game?

 

I'm not *********** comparing it to WoW.

 

THERE ARE ONLY 4-5 SPACE MISSIONS THE REST ARE REPEATS. This is me talking about TOR and only TOR. If you're going to have something around 10-12 space missions, make them unique... especially if they're on rails.

[Vexas]

WoW is what, 7 years old? SWTOR is, technically, 2 months old. In addition to that it was released prematurely. Are you seriously comparing quantity of quests in a 2 month old game to the quantity in a 7 year old game?

 

Hundreds of millions of dollars and how many years of development later, TOR? Right.

 

I think people are perfectly justified in comparing the two as they are, today. If you're a customer and you're choosing which product to buy, you're buying and playing TODAY's PRODUCT. Not WoW's 7 years ago, not WoW's 4 years ago... not what TOR's might become at some random point in the future. You can only consume either product as they're being presented to you right now.

 

Why in the world wouldn't you compare them.

 

People are ridiculous.