This game vs. GW2 (or: why you may want to stay)

[Laurreth]

You know, after playing GW2 ("that game") for a week I have to say, SWOR ("this game") isn't that bad. It's maybe even better, but like so often, "better" doesn't necessarily mean "good".

 

Why am I writing this here? Maybe because I want this game to stay alive and grow beyond what it is now, because it really still has the potential, especially with a good number of sucke^Wsubscribers providing a steady source of designer food. This is not intended as a source for a flamewar, but knowing the territory, asbestos underwear may be advisable. I'm also trying to step around the major bugs that GW2 is encountering at the moment, focusing of the basic design deficiencies.

 

Anyway, back on topic. Really.

 

Alright, you chase green markers, then talk to or kill someone or something (sometimes both). You actually do that in both games. The big plus this game has is that it's actually telling a compelling story, something that at least the story nerds among us can enjoy; there's at least the semblance of something bigger than the character going on and involving the player character, and when you finish a planet (by wiping a few farmsteads clean of invaders, let's suspend that disbelief for a second), you are told that you're the hero and how everyone is looking up to you now. It's the good old "you (along with everyone else) are the hero" meme, but at least it's orchestrated in a good way.

 

GW2 doesn't offer that degree of immersion. Right off the bat, you get involved in some abstract struggle against something esoteric, and all you know is that there's stuff that wants to kill you. Spoiler: right up to the point when you realise that OMG it's a dragon and your storyline merges with that of everyone else, that doesn't change. Heck, even after that point, why would it bother me? A huge dragon raising the undead is apparently the only source of entertainment the world of Tyria has to offer, apart from the usual lust for mutual genocide everyone in there appears to harbour. The "open world PvE" offers superficially fun events, but those repeat quickly, and offer less distraction than one would think at first. Apart from that, you do menial kill/gather tasks for nondescript NPCs in a world that may be a tad more "interesting" and gritty than the very Clone-Wars-clean SWOR world.

 

"But," I thought, "the small-scale PvP in SWOR sucks noodle!"

 

Maybe, but apparently that wasn't rock bottom. Compared to what GW2 has in stock there, let me tell you, the rotation of a measly 4 small warzones we are dealing with is a miracle of fun and glittering unicorns. We get largely uncluttered maps, by now a pretty good balance through mirroring, three distinct gameplay mechanics, and every map having its winning condition wrapped in a story goal (except for Huttball, oh how much I hate that).

 

Contrast that to GW2, where you have small-scale PvP organised through a lobby reminding very much of every FPS game ever, with a bunch of cluttered maps that have only a fraction of the visual appeal of the open world, and which all come with the same tired "capture three points" mechanic without any variation. Oh, and at the time of writing, it's nigh impossible to play with (as opposed to against) your friends, unless you join a tournament; you join a server, you get randomly assigned to a team, and can't even tell which one at first. Oh yeah, every match is commented by something resembling the obnoxious Huttball commenter, just with less enthusiasm and vocal talent in an endless loop.

 

So we're down to the much-touted "open" PvP, pitching three game worlds (read: servers) against each other, but I can't say much about that, since the queues are longer than the server queues SWOR had right at launch, and getting into a match, or heavens forbid, getting more than one person of a group in there, takes the better part of an evening, so that's a tale for another post.

Edited September 3, 2012 by Laurreth

[Liquidacid]

eh I beta tested GW2 and someone bought it for me but I still haven't even installed it... I can't really voice a fair opinion on the game because I'm just so burnt out of fantasy games it would be biased as hell

[RazielHex]

Oooh look.

 

This thread again.

 

This isn't 4chan dude. We have a search function.

Edited September 3, 2012 by RazielHex

[Liquidacid]

Oooh look.

 

This thread again.

 

This isn't 4chan dude. We have a search function.

 

4chan doesn't have a search function?

[warultima]

But meshing that AoE button over and over and over and then heal yourself up just so you can AoE more is tons of fun tho.

[MajikMyst]

You should post this on the Guild War 2 forums?? Wait do they even have any??

 

Or are you posting here because your GW2 account got hacked?? DOH!!

 

While the two things I mentioned don't really have much to do about the game.. They do have a lot to do with the company and how much the company cares about their customers.. When it comes to MMOs.. The game is only part of the equation for me.. I will be staying here..

[Halfadozen]

Yawn.

[Briljin]

The big plus this game has is that it's actually telling a compelling story,

 

While the story line is interesting at times, it down right dumb at others. For example take the Shadow class story line for an example. I am the first in a thousand years to be awarded the "Barsen'thor" title. Well if you over look every Shadow that finished it before me... Now all MMOs are going to have story line issues, so as long as the story line serves to progress the character through the game it has served it's purpose.

 

Contrast that to GW2, where you have small-scale PvP organised through a lobby reminding very much of every FPS game ever, with a bunch of cluttered maps that have only a fraction of the visual appeal of the open world, and which all come with the same tired "capture three points" mechanic without any variation.

 

I do dislike the whole "lobby" feeling of GW II but then I could point out that the majority of PvPers in SWToR probably hang out around the PvP Mission terminal in the Fleet. As for the "capture" thing, three of the four WZs in SWToR involve that very same mechanic. You have two where you need to capture and hold points of the map and another where you need to capture and hold doors. There is little difference in that regard. As for the clutter and voice acting, that is really just a matter of opinion. I enjoy a PvP environment with a bit more going on and I tend to drown out the voice acting in both games BGs (honestly, they both suck).

 

All in all, I have not spent much time playing GW II since launch. I played it a lot during beta but the total disconnect between PvP and the rest of the world has kind of soured me to the game. I mean you don't even have to level your character to be as effective as a veteran player. For me there is just no sense in progress to be had, maybe the system will grow upon me. It will solve the issues with FTOM classes and team make ups. Seeing you could have one instantly as well...

[macumba]

well I think small scale pvp like deathmatch or capture the flag (or the huttball) don't belong in an mmo at all. yet wow and swtor only have this and totally forgot about the massive pvp in my massive-morpg. done good or bad does not matter at least they (gw2) did it, while swtor and wow didn't even try.

 

/end of discussion

[jarjarloves]

well I think small scale pvp like deathmatch or capture the flag (or the huttball) don't belong in an mmo at all. yet wow and swtor only have this and totally forgot about the massive pvp in my massive-morpg. done good or bad does not matter at least they (gw2) did it, while swtor and wow didn't even try.

 

/end of discussion

 

ummm SWTOR did try it was called Ilum.

 

Well that and we did get some amazing large scale open world PVP during the Rakghoul event so it is possible.

[SweKaiser]

You can enjoy both games really. The flow of combat in GW2 is far better then the static stand still and cast your things in Swtor f.e. And, the boring go here and pick up a quest at this guy and run there do that, thats just plain boring and oldfashioned.

But, you have the epic feeling in swtor you dont get in GW2.

So, you can play and enjoy both games, no need to pick 1 and only play that one.

I do enjoy both games, think they both are fantastic with their plus and minuses.

[Kashley]

This entire post is nothing but your opinion of why SWTOR is better then GW2.... I opened this thinking you may have had some decent facts to back it up. What a let down.

[heechJunzi]

Not sure why you guys are giving the OP a hard time. I think it's a very fair/balanced look at both games, from someone who's played both.

 

I'd just add I've played WvWvW, and granted maybe I just didn't find the "right" part of the game... but what I saw was boring, silly, and completely lacking in skill. I'll probably give it another shot after they rebalance the server I was on.

[randiesel]

Don't forget, sPvP was down nearly all weekend in GW2. And WvWvW is just an AoE-zergfest, nothing better can be said about it.

 

PvP in ToR at least requires strategy to win. I've always loved ToR's PvP and while gear does give an advantage, most of the ppl I go against are full WH anyway, so it's an even playing field, for me at least.

 

The dynamic events got boring for me and I stopped leveling at lvl 11. There are those ppl who say that they just "can't get enough of seeing the scenery or listening to the music from atop a mountain cliff". Seriously? Go take a hike, really, in real life. You probably could use the exercise and the scenery would be even better. These are the types of ppl I call extremely casual and don't look at the big picture, such a everything that's wrong or missing in the game. Take a trip over to Massively as they have a great article this morning about that.

 

The graphics in GW2 are stunning, yes, but it is just boring once you've played it for ten hours. And anyone played WoW? Remember the Perfect Storm battleground? All the battlegrounds in GW2 are a remake of that: take X # of players to cap a spot, rotate to the next one that the opposing team took from you, oh and stop to kill a few players along the way. The Perfect Storm, minus the flag. How ppl compare this to actual strategy in ToR, where the "One person CAN make a difference" theme really reigns true just amazes me. The sPvP is ok, but it's just cap his, lost that, cap at back. Obviously ToR has turrets and ppl can make the same argument, but take into account strategy and it nullifies their argument.

 

+1 for ToR IMO. Not wanting to see this game shut down anytime soon as I personally love it and I know there are more than just me that love it too.

[randiesel]

This entire post is nothing but your opinion of why SWTOR is better then GW2.... I opened this thinking you may have had some decent facts to back it up. What a let down.

 

Go to http://www.massively.com. Read actual critical editorials from non-biased writers then. They do a good job playing Devil's advocate.

 

But seriously, why are so many GW2-only lovers trolling the ToR forums now? If its so good, just play it.

[jarjarloves]

You can enjoy both games really. The flow of combat in GW2 is far better then the static stand still and cast your things in Swtor f.e. And, the boring go here and pick up a quest at this guy and run there do that, thats just plain boring and oldfashioned.

But, you have the epic feeling in swtor you dont get in GW2.

So, you can play and enjoy both games, no need to pick 1 and only play that one.

I do enjoy both games, think they both are fantastic with their plus and minuses.

 

I dont' know I have yet to find an attack in any MMO that is anywhere near as satisfying as force choke.

[ZORG]

In GW2 I like how everyone is EVEN in PVP. No one can going there and totally own in pvp. It is NOT GEAR based. It is skill based. The only thing leveling gives you an advantage on is your TRAIITS.

 

If SWTOR had worlds as populated (by npcs) with dynamic events and npcs that actually asked for help it might make it better. I do PVP in GW2 cause its fun not cause of the next peice of gear i dont have.

Question: Is it possible for SWTOR to have ALL PVP based on skill and not the gear your wearing?

Question: Can SWTOR make it so all open world encounters are shared and scale dynamicly with how many folks attacking it?

Question: Will SWTOR find a way to abandon the HOLY TRINITY?

The other stark difference is the under water environment. There is swimming for christs sake. You even get a rebreather so you can stay under water for as long as you want.

 

Oh and if you like crafting I think you may be happier in GW2..

 

I am a StarWars Fanboy. I have been Imagining a Star Wars MMORPG for years and years ever since I tried EQ1. I so wish I could take GW2 and SWTOR and put them into a blender and take whats good about both and drop the rest.

[Master-Nala]

I think GW2 is fun (in short doses), but I'm really wondering where is this innovation everyone talks about. I also wonder why this game found itself savagely criticized over trivia such as sitting in chairs, while GW2 gets a pass. That game is no more dynamic than this one. It's just as sterile. It feels more like a themepark, much more since you can just wander around and get on rides (events).

[randiesel]

In GW2 I like how everyone is EVEN in PVP. No one can going there and totally own in pvp. It is NOT GEAR based. It is skill based. The only thing leveling gives you an advantage on is your TRAIITS.

 

If SWTOR had worlds as populated (by npcs) with dynamic events and npcs that actually asked for help it might make it better. I do PVP in GW2 cause its fun not cause of the next peice of gear i dont have.

Question: Is it possible for SWTOR to have ALL PVP based on skill and not the gear your wearing?

Question: Can SWTOR make it so all open world encounters are shared and scale dynamicly with how many folks attacking it?

Question: Will SWTOR find a way to abandon the HOLY TRINITY?

The other stark difference is the under water environment. There is swimming for christs sake. You even get a rebreather so you can stay under water for as long as you want.

 

Oh and if you like crafting I think you may be happier in GW2..

 

I am a StarWars Fanboy. I have been Imagining a Star Wars MMORPG for years and years ever since I tried EQ1. I so wish I could take GW2 and SWTOR and put them into a blender and take whats good about both and drop the rest.

 

IMO, gear up and then everyone is on an even playing field. I play a thief in GW2 and when I pop my elite skill, I have 3 thieves and me killing one opponent. How is that "balanced" even if gear is equal? Everyone who uses the gear argument is blind.

 

Also, is underwater combat REALLY that exciting for you? I mean REALLY though? I go and get attacked by 4 sharks who bite me for 11k a piece and my opponent swims away to kite me. That's balanced too I guess...

 

Oh and crafting is cool, sorta like the dude who blew through the last 20 levels and hit 80 before the official launch. You see so many breeze-troughs in ToR giving players a leveling advantage... Oh wait, no you don't.

Edited September 3, 2012 by randiesel

[Insomnio]

The problem with TOR, is the "unexpected" switch to F2P. When is it going live? What is going to be pay to play material and how much will it cost?

 

It feels like TOR has been holding back all content, only waiting for the best moment to try and charge people more money to play the "new" content. Subs are going down, with 2 of the top reasons being people do not want to pay to play this game, and lack of content. This is what is pushing people away from the game.

 

The issue with that, is with the F2P systems they have been discussing, it seems everything endgame and "PVP", will be sub only, or pay to play access. For all of the people who played this game and left, BW trying to charge them more money to return and play the "new" content really seems like a bad move.

 

Sure some of the F2P people will possibly pay to play some of the endgame when they reach it, but a lot of them will be burnt out on the game just the same as they majority of the players who left the game. I hope BW has a good strategy for F2P, but considering the track record of this games handling, my expectations are not terribly high.

[Briljin]

It is NOT GEAR based. It is skill based. The only thing leveling gives you an advantage on is your TRAIITS.

.

 

Did they remove the classes and now everyone has the same skills and abilities? If not then you will never really have a "skill based" game, unless you honestly believe that a company is some how going to be able to do what none have been able to do thus far and maintain a perfect class balance between all the variants possible.

 

Yes, they removed the gear but least be honest. That is generally the least OP issues games have as typically gear is easy to attain and requires almost no skill. It is class balance that is always the down fall of the "skill" based dreams.

[Bobbyrab]

SWTOR is WoW with Star Wars skin and a Bioware story.

 

GW2 is WoW with a hidden grind.

 

That about sums it up. You'll find folks who like SWTOR, who like GW2, who like both, and who like neither.

[Ricktur]

so to sum this up, GW2 sucks and swtor is better?

 

cool

[heechJunzi]

You can enjoy both games really. The flow of combat in GW2 is far better then the static stand still and cast your things in Swtor f.e.

Not to pick a fight with you, but I'm just wondering what you're seeing that I'm not.

 

Are you referring to PVE? If so, I could see that. I don't PVE a lot even on swtor, but sometimes it does feel like one giant macro.... Just follow your rotation in order to maximize DPS. I can see how those leveling bots would be easy to build.

 

But in PVP, my sense is that SWTOR combat rotations are a ton more interesting. I have 20 keys I use/monitor in every fight, as does my opponent.... And there's definitely no standing still and casting, at least not for the skilled classes.

[Rogoo]

"But," I thought, "the small-scale PvP in SWOR sucks noodle!"

 

Yeah, because gear based PvP is all that true PvPers want right ?

 

SWTORs PvP is not competetive at all.

 

Apples and oranges here.