Voice overs potentially ToRs downfall?

[Sorwen]

I have to jump on the bandwagon too.

I don't understand why they had to pay millions of dollars for voice work.

 

They could do auditions for try out voice actors and pay them LOTS less. Voice acting is not the same as acting. It can easily be trained.

 

Good sounding voices aren't that hard to find. Really don't need big name celebrities for just voices.

A) Most of the voices are done by know voice actors, but many of those don't get paid as "celebrities". There are a few celebrity voices, but generally they don't get paid the amounts they do in live acting. I'm sure a few do well or it likely wouldn't be worth their time, but the majority of the confirmed voices don't make the kind of money you are imagining. I'm sure they wish they did just as I wished I made more money at my job. Sadly however that isn't the case. That is why so many of them are so prolific, because they have to be to pay the bills. The "lots less" doesn't come if for simply the need for quality work.

 

B) Can it be trained? Kind of. It is like any other type of acting where a certain amount of training is going to make a difference. There are some different things to learn, but it does take some talent like any other art. You can't just whip out a voice actor in a 5 hour course. I have to wonder if you've sat through some really bad voice acting. I mean there is some really cringe worthy stuff because of trying to cut corners. Anything saved would be lost in time, training, and likely quality. I don't think anyone would want to sit through 80+ hours of bad voice acting just for one solid play through let alone repeat the experience. Having everyone want to turn it off would defeat having it in the first place.

 

I only say all of this because I've met a few voice actors(some on multiple occasions though don't know any on a personal level) and I've found many of them to be really fun and great people(people being people I'm not saying everyone is) that are some times really undervalued. What some of them do shouldn't just be dismissed as if anyone can do it easily or as if they are overpaid.

 

The failing sub numbers hardly have to do with any negative critique of the game on a forum. People play through, see what the game is and then decide if it is worth staying, especially when you have to commit to pay2play. Its not worth it for a lot of people.

 

BW has stated that "40% of the players who left stated that sub cost was the barrier to them staying". Im sure thats close to true, but I wonder what the other 60% said about the game? Im quite sure it was not "I really like TOR, its a good game, but the forums made me quit."

 

Im not sure what you found challenging, it is really easy to get to the level cap, and then have nothing to do in game- and THAT is what drove out a lot of players. They effectively beat the game, and therefore felt it was time to move on.

This. I've never known a person to quite simply because of the forums. That isn't to say no one ever has, but I rather doubt any in numbers to make any impact on a game.

 

While we can only surmise why they left really(BioWare should know, but they are not going to say) the only thing TOR has going for it is novelty. The novelty of all the voices, strong story for an MMO, and setting. Otherwise beyond what has to be standard in a MMO they were only marginally inventive with things. Some of that inventiveness still falls short of what people want. On top of which things like the combat are pretty standard MMO fair as well as all of the issues that come with it. While I like the game and play it and for me it has enough differences that I will play it unlike WoW, the majority of the gamers that are going to be interested in it beyond the Star Wars fan is the WoW player. And guess what, they are playing WoW or Rifts. If the majority of the MMOs are fighting over the same 11+ million WoW people, then aside the fact they are ignoring the millions more that don't, you can only split them up so many ways especially with the economy the way it is world wide.

 

 

I'd be highly suspect of ANYTHING that resembles lip service as much as promises that they have "VO in the bank" so to speak.

 

They seemed to serve quite a bit of pure and utter BS to us during development and post launch, and we seemed to eagerly eat it up.

 

I call shenanigans. Where is the content? Lost half their subs...could have released it to stem the tide if they, in fact, really had it.

I can't say that, but several voice actors have admitted they were still under contact at the time of release. I haven't been paying attention to whether any are now or not. Edited September 5, 2012 by Sorwen

[CorellianWannabe]

Once again for those that apparently missed my first post in here...

 

The devs (Reid and Ohlen) said early on that they have recorded enough voice over work to make years worth of content. They thought ahead. The path is planned out. The game is not going to need any new voice over work for years to come.

 

Voice overs or the lack thereof will not be the death of SWTOR, at least not anytime soon.

 

 

If that's the case then why did they chain the voice actors to a contract stipulating they would be available for years to come?

[Blackavaar]

If that's the case then why did they chain the voice actors to a contract stipulating they would be available for years to come?

 

Um, ever heard of callbacks? Actors have to do them all the time.

 

[GalacticKegger]

If that's the case then why did they chain the voice actors to a contract stipulating they would be available for years to come?

Much like movie productions that are in progress (and MMOs are ALWAYS a WIP) scripts change constantly. There are endless and untapped story variants floating around in writer's minds that one has to believe no one can forsee - not even the writers themselves - until they simply happen. Having voices on retainer gives them the freedom to improvise while maintaining distinguished character identities throughout. Edited September 5, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[MOPSFounder]

Just my own two cents. BioWare shot themselves in the foot with VO. They placed all their bets on VO being the 'revolutionary' change to MMO's thinking it would keep players involved to the extent that they neglected staples most MMO players were used to.

 

Now, they need VO to keep whats left of the population engaged in the only good selling point of SWTOR; story. But because they failed on just about everything else they are not generating the sub revenue to develop it.

 

Its entirely hilarious.

EAWare definitely didn't see it coming that all that voice acting and Story classes would be a double-edged sword in the end!

[Blackardin]

This thread is stupid, and was written by someone who has obviously never touched the Dragon Age: Origins toolkit.

 

Voice-over content is trivial to make with the tools from that game, and I doubt the tools for TOR are any less capable.

 

If you want to talk about something, try looking at soap operas. They can churn five entire episodes a week, and that includes the script-writing process.

 

Voice acting isn't the problem. It's probably the least problematic part of this game.

 

Ats the problem with 90% of the posts in this forum. Not sure when people started to to believe that playing a video game grants them the knowledge, experience, education to become game developers to the point that they openly post about things they know nothing about with authority.

 

We play a video game. That is where it starts and ends.

[Blackardin]

EAWare definitely didn't see it coming that all that voice acting and Story classes would be a double-edged sword in the end!

 

that's because it is not....just more players fabricating reality based on no data, no knowledge, no experience.....just blurting out what they think and then attempting to promulgate that into law. Really is amazing to watch.

[MOPSFounder]

that's because it is not....just more players fabricating reality based on no data, no knowledge, no experience.....just blurting out what they think and then attempting to promulgate that into law. Really is amazing to watch.

Lol yeah, it is. They really did a terrible job mixing in single-player content with a game that was labelled as an MMO... M, M, O.

 

They also tried too much to cater to the many different types of players supporting this game, but here I am and even from experience I'm seeing players of any kind (those that wanted Story, OPvP, RP and exploration, etc.) leave left and right.

 

None of this is being fabricated.

 

Edit: There's an Unsubscriber's Thread. You should check it out. You'll learn a lot.

Edited September 15, 2012 by MOPSFounder

[Kubernetic]

Lol yeah, it is. They really did a terrible job mixing in single-player content with a game that was labelled as an MMO... M, M, O.

 

They also tried too much to cater to the many different types of players supporting this game, but here I am and even from experience I'm seeing players of any kind (those that wanted Story, OPvP, RP and exploration, etc.) leave left and right.

 

None of this is being fabricated.

 

Edit: There's an Unsubscriber's Thread. You should check it out. You'll learn a lot.

 

So tell me, how exactly is it with a range of planets all containing multiple-player heroics, as well as a player/companion dynamic that immediately lends itself to dismissing your companions and playing with another player through various worlds, or even several players, that you've found it hard to play with other people?

 

With PVP Warzones where you can immediately group up with 3 other players, or even get to the Ranked level and group up with 7 others, you've found it hard to find multiple-player opportunities?

 

I'm just not sure what you're trying to get at, other than you seem to not have explored the available possibilities in the game. Is that what you're trying to say?

[Rafaman]

that's because it is not....just more players fabricating reality based on no data, no knowledge, no experience.....just blurting out what they think and then attempting to promulgate that into law. Really is amazing to watch.

 

Agree. There are so many MMO experts here it's a wonder they haven't created the perfect MMO themselves. After all, it's easy peasy given the wall of text analysis and arm chair development the "experts" provide.

[Sarfux]

I don't think so. It's easier to relate to your character and the missions you are on etc with the voice over. It's an amazing feature that I think we will see in more games in the future.

[MaximusRex]

Blaming VO for the lack of other systems is silly, MMOs are made by teams, and the systems team aren't going to be the guys working with Actors on scripts or putting those into the game.

[Arkerus]

The best part of the game. Also could potentially be TORs biggest problem. We all know that leveling was the best aspect of the game. I think everyone could agree it was enjoyable, atleast the first time through. I think its going to hurt the game in the long run.

 

Reason 1... Voice overs are too costly to make. It takes a lot of money to not only pay the actors, for all the voice over work, but to also code everything and design cutscenes for it. The game is not doing as well as they had hoped it would do. F2P may turn that around and it may not. The funding may not be there for future voice over work.

 

Reason 2 ... Time it takes to create. Voice over work takes time. Not only in recording and editing but also, like above, in coding and cut scene design... syncing etc. I think that BW was pretty ambitious about future content and what they thought they could do.

 

I believe that because voice over work is both time consuming and costly, that it may not be that often. I dont think we will see the qaulity or quantity, of the leveling game, in the future. I think the past products are showing this already. We have had no story updates. The new dailies are all from a terminal, instead of quest givers with voice over. The planet Makeb has said to have world arc stories but no class stories and no companion stories, even though there will be a level cap increase. Sadly, I think the best part of the game is going to fall to the wayside for quicker and cheaper content. I also believe that this will turn away those that play the game for that experience alone. If that happens it will only get worse.

 

I think they would have been better off using voice over work for class story and companions as well as major world arc stories. I think all the side quests they should have just been like a terminal or the standard text box. This would have saved them in budget and time and those resources could have been allocated elsewhere. I dont expect to see the same quality as we had at launch, in the future.

 

Both of your reasons are wrong. Number 1 is completely wrong and number 2 is conjecture at best.

[LordArtemis]

Both of your reasons are wrong. Number 1 is completely wrong and number 2 is conjecture at best.

 

Number one is not completely wrong, and to make that contention is silly IMO. It is common knowledge that Voice Over acting is EXTREMELY expensive. Especially when celebrity voices are used. And the effect of F2P on the game is unknown. It may not generate the revenue needed to fund more VO content in any substantial form.

 

You could maybe say it is subjective, but completely wrong? That's a stretch AT BEST.

Edited September 15, 2012 by LordArtemis

[Arkerus]

Number one is not completely wrong, and to make that contention is silly IMO. It is common knowledge that Voice Over acting is EXTREMELY expensive. Especially when celebrity voices are used. And the effect of F2P on the game is unknown. It may not generate the revenue needed to fund more VO content in any substantial form.

 

You could maybe say it is subjective, but completely wrong? That's a stretch AT BEST.

 

No its not. Look it up. Voice acting is extremely affordable.

 

http://voiceactors.wordpress.com/2009/04/27/how-much-do-voice-actors-earn/

 

 

47k a year, on average.

 

 

Anyone else want to try?

Edited September 16, 2012 by Arkerus

[Skoobie]

No its not. Look it up. Voice acting is extremely affordable.

 

http://voiceactors.wordpress.com/2009/04/27/how-much-do-voice-actors-earn/

 

 

47k a year, on average.

 

 

Anyone else want to try?

 

How much an average VO actor makes yearly, has nothing to do with how much it costs a game company to implement it into their game.

Edited September 16, 2012 by Skoobie

[Superawesomerman]

I would agree that voice acting is probably not as expensive as it seems.

 

It is, probably, more time consuming than it seems.

[clearsighted]

I enjoy the voice overs. But...

 

I agree that if they spent as much time as they did perfecting the voice over content and spent 100,200 mill on the core of the game itself we would have a full flight space game, chat bubbles, customizable ships, more planets, faster load speeds, more classes, races, more spaceships to choose from, more things to encounter, and they could have had every planet being level 1-50 content. Want to level on Hoth? BAM! Want to level on Tatooine? BAM! Want to level any planet any time? BAM!

 

If they didn't put all their eggs into one basket such as strictly voice over, they could have had A LOT more things to do in this game. It's nice and all listening to the stories, for I LOVE the immersion, but I do agree with you. We would be getting content at a MUCH faster rate and I doubt it would have gone f2p option. That's honestly what I think about the whole thing.

 

Or else they would have wasted it, and we'd have nothing but a longer grind and a couple more planets.

[Arkerus]

How much an average VO actor makes yearly, has nothing to do with how much it costs a game company to implement it into their game.

 

Record. Sync. Done. Very typical in today's technology.

 

 

Anyone else?

[aeterno]

It's potentionaly TORs saving grace. Without it there is nothing in this game some other game doesnt do better.

[Skoobie]

Record. Sync. Done. Very typical in today's technology.

 

 

Anyone else?

 

Anyone else for what? To prove you have no idea what you are talking about?

 

You're doing a fine job of that yourself.

 

Show us a link that states how much it costs to implement VO in a game.

Edited September 16, 2012 by Skoobie

[MOPSFounder]

Anyone else for what? To prove you have no idea what you are talking about?

 

You're doing a fine job of that yourself.

 

Show us a link that states how much it costs to implement VO in a game.

The way SWTOR implemented VOs costed so much, that they could focus on MMO features that would make this game re-playable for a long time.

[Alec_Fortescue]

I believe that already have voice overs for a lot of future content ready. Just saying... This game doesn't really look like a $200 million game at this stage.

[CelCawdro]

I believe that already have voice overs for a lot of future content ready. Just saying... This game doesn't really look like a $200 million game at this stage.

 

While I'd love to share that belief, I think it's a little unrealistic. BioWare would have busted out story content a lot earlier as subscriptions began to droop if they had the voiceovers sitting around, even if that wouldn't have helped in the long run. It just seems very odd to me that they'd hold back their signature content during what is sure to be the darkest period in the game's history.

[Chaac]

After the last event I really worry about how Bioware will play out future missions. It was horrible going through the whole quest chain and not seeing my character or companion speak once, and the excuse that only one end of the transmission was secure just didn't sit right. I really hope we're not going to see more of that in the future.