Nerf the crap out of Sorcerers

[Hydranova]

First: As I said before, you guys really should wait until everyone gets to lvl 50, in order to make an accurate comparison. And I'm quite sure most ppl here have, at most, a few hours of PvP (which, IMHO, is too little to make a serious claim as to nerf someone's else class).

 

Secondly, SWTOR, as most MMO, isnt about every class being equal, but more of a paper-scissor-rock game... Lets just say that, if sorcs were paper, juggernaught/knight aren't exactly their scissor.

 

Finally, even before open beta, sorcs were THE most popular class in the SWTOR empire side. And that was when most ppl didn't even have a clue of how the class would really play. Lets just face it, a lot of guys out there want to shoot some lightining, and play through the inquisitor story. Nerfing the class is not how you will fix the unusually high numbers of sorcs out there.

 

I'm not saying that there shoudn't be a nerf, or some kind of adjustment. All I'm saying is that most (if not everybody, besides someone who has reached lvl 50 on closed beta, and played that class for hours upon hours), have too little ingame experience (still not maxed characters, and just a few hours of PvP) to make an accurate comparison and, whats even worst, to ask for a nerf.

 

Cheers;)

 

I agree. When I rolled my SI, I rolled it because a) it seemed like the most science-y class I could RP as and b) the Magic Pimp Robes. As such, we just have to wait to get the people who are just rolling it for the lightning to get bored with it. Also, that and perhaps people get matched up against other people who, while at the same level, are just better than them.

[metaIsaber]

First: As I said before, you guys really should wait until everyone gets to lvl 50, in order to make an accurate comparison. And I'm quite sure most ppl here have, at most, a few hours of PvP (which, IMHO, is too little to make a serious claim as to nerf someone's else class).

 

Secondly, SWTOR, as most MMO, isnt about every class being equal, but more of a paper-scissor-rock game... Lets just say that, if sorcs were paper, juggernaught/knight aren't exactly their scissor.

 

Finally, even before open beta, sorcs were THE most popular class in the SWTOR empire side. And that was when most ppl didn't even have a clue of how the class would really play. Lets just face it, a lot of guys out there want to shoot some lightining, and play through the inquisitor story. Nerfing the class is not how you will fix the unusually high numbers of sorcs out there.

 

I'm not saying that there shoudn't be a nerf, or some kind of adjustment. All I'm saying is that most (if not everybody, besides someone who has reached lvl 50 on closed beta, and played that class for hours upon hours), have too little ingame experience (still not maxed characters, and just a few hours of PvP) to make an accurate comparison and, whats even worst, to ask for a nerf.

 

Cheers;)

 

 

I've been playing since beta and 1st day of early access. I still stand by my statement that currently with my sorcerer, it's way more powerful than my juggernaut.

 

Of my last 5 matches with Sorcerer, I was averaging 30+kills and <3 deaths.

Juggernaut was averaging ~15kills and ~5 deaths.

 

In terms of XP, I usually end up with 9-10k xp on my Sorcerer and about 5-6k xp on my juggernaut. Again, not calling for a nerf, but seems like at this moment, I plan on using my Juggernaut strictly for PVE tanking and not PVP.

Edited December 21, 2011 by metaIsaber

[RudedawgCDN]

First: As I said before, you guys really should wait until everyone gets to lvl 50, in order to make an accurate comparison. And I'm quite sure most ppl here have, at most, a few hours of PvP (which, IMHO, is too little to make a serious claim as to nerf someone's else class).

 

Secondly, SWTOR, as most MMO, isnt about every class being equal, but more of a paper-scissor-rock game... Lets just say that, if sorcs were paper, juggernaught/knight aren't exactly their scissor.

 

Finally, even before open beta, sorcs were THE most popular class in the SWTOR empire side. And that was when most ppl didn't even have a clue of how the class would really play. Lets just face it, a lot of guys out there want to shoot some lightining, and play through the inquisitor story. Nerfing the class is not how you will fix the unusually high numbers of sorcs out there.

 

I'm not saying that there shoudn't be a nerf, or some kind of adjustment. All I'm saying is that most (if not everybody, besides someone who has reached lvl 50 on closed beta, and played that class for hours upon hours), have too little ingame experience (still not maxed characters, and just a few hours of PvP) to make an accurate comparison and, whats even worst, to ask for a nerf.

 

Cheers;)

 

I don't understand when people say these kinds of things.

 

It's selfish, "I'm happy, so leave my class alone, and I don't care if your game experience sucks just suck it up and MAYBE things will get better for you at 50"

 

The fact is ALL players regardless of class want to enjoy the game experience from 1 to 50

 

If it means boosting other classes or toning down others to match content - then so be it.

 

Too bad devs didn't do this during beta though, makes me wonder if their really paying attention to player feedback or not.

[mdualib]

I don't understand when people say these kinds of things.

 

It's selfish, "I'm happy, so leave my class alone, and I don't care if your game experience sucks just suck it up and MAYBE things will get better for you at 50"

 

The fact is ALL players regardless of class want to enjoy the game experience from 1 to 50

 

If it means boosting other classes or toning down others to match content - then so be it.

 

Too bad devs didn't do this during beta though, makes me wonder if their really paying attention to player feedback or not.

 

Wow... Thats was sooo not what I meant... Would really like to know where did you managed to read that in my previous post.

 

I just said that the game has 2 days, and ppl are already screaming as if PvP was utterly destroyed. A little bit of over reaction, if you ask me.

 

Here, this will help me explain what i`m trying to say... Just from this last week of early access play:

 

Nerf Bounty Hunters!

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=49118

 

Nerf Snipers!

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=49118

 

Nerf Commandos!

http://www.swtor.com/de/community/showthread.php?t=25707

 

Nerf Juggernaughts! (Yes, even they couldn`t escape the mighty nerf bat =P)

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=58071

 

Nerf Imperial Agents!

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=24600&page=7

 

And so on and so forth...

Think about it for a bit, k

 

Cheers

Edited December 21, 2011 by mdualib

[kryptiklol]

Sorcerers are gamebreakingly(if that's a word) overpowered. Bioware should remove all of their CC and also half their dmg, heals and iWin bubble.

Also, adding a 10 yard deadzone in which they can't cast would balance things up.

 

The problem with sorcerers is that even noobs manage to melt everyone's faces.

Without sorcerers in the game, PvP would be fun.

Edited December 21, 2011 by kryptiklol

[Hydranova]

Sorcerers are gamebreakingly(if that's a word) overpowered. Bioware should remove all of their CC and also half their dmg, heals and iWin bubble.

Also, adding a 10 yard deadzone in which they can't cast would balance things up.

 

The problem with sorcerers is that even noobs manage to melt everyone's faces.

Without sorcerers in the game, PvP would be fun.

 

Yes, remove the heals from the (potentially) healing AC of the SI, uh-huh, good idea.

[Hemotosis]

.

 

News Flash from Bioware: We've heard your complaints about sorcerers and sage's during low level PVP battles, especially the very informative thread from Electroflux who states "This class is so pathetically overpowered it's unbelievable. Plus you can't even play a warzone with less then 8 sorcerers."

 

To remedy this very game breaking bug, we have decided to replace the sorcerer and sage classes with kittens. Cute and adorable, you just can't help yourself from going "ahhhh" when you see them in any upcoming pvp battle. Of course you won't be able to bring yourself to kill them either being they are so cute looking.

[Krayzietwo]

Awww, poor guy died.....

[mdualib]

You know, in all my years of MMO gaming experience, I always wondered about the following:

 

"A" thinks, after he was beaten repeatedly in PvP, that his character`s class might be a bit broken. From there, "A" can do two things:

 

1) Go to his class forum and ask for a buff for his given class, explaining to his community (who does know a LOT about the class) why they need any given buff,

 

or

 

2) Go to the class forum that beated him and just cry for a nerf, talking about a class that most ppl won`t know about (afterall, they probably have not played his class yet) and possibly starting a flame war (which, btw I`m getting into it, I think... Shame on me).

 

I`m still amazed why do ppl choose to go with option 2, instead of 1, but who am I to know anything, right?

 

Guys, guys

 

If you want to ask for a nerf, then do it properly, like this guy:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=58112

 

Thats asking for a nerf with style!

 

Cheers

Edited December 21, 2011 by mdualib

[Hydranova]

Orrrr this guy is trollin.

[KandarWessiri]

Sorcerers are gamebreakingly(if that's a word) overpowered. Bioware should remove all of their CC and also half their dmg, heals and iWin bubble.

Also, adding a 10 yard deadzone in which they can't cast would balance things up.

 

The problem with sorcerers is that even noobs manage to melt everyone's faces.

Without sorcerers in the game, PvP would be fun.

 

What I don't understand is why everyone else is automatically a "noob", and why somehow you're not?

 

I mean, I play an assassin and I kind of feel like I got the short end of the stick when compared to Sorcerers.. The longer range on attacks is rather good... plus I'm a bit dissapointed at how little being a tanking tree spec seems to matter on my survivability compared to Madness spec...

 

But it really is too early to tell...

 

I would wager that if you put 3 high dps classes with less stuns on any player you would kill them fast.

[Shamashed]

Sorry this isnt like that other game you are so accustomed to. You might have been "skilled" over there, so go back.

[Felene]

They see us rolling Force Lightning, they hating.

 

Seriously, aren't you(OP) the same guy that start a nerf sorcerer thread in almost every beta?

[Matchewa]

Post the combat log numbers showing proof the class is overpowered. Or better yet--roll a Sorcerer and see if you still get facerolled. Might just be your fingers are slow.

 

I actually did this. I started as a sentinel and pvp'd up until around level 22. I had not trouble if I was fighting one one on one, the problem was when I would be focus fired by more than 2-3 ranged classes. So now I am a sage and pvp is awesome!

[Kamikazie]

This thread is full of interesting ideas, but it has quickly become apparent that theres also some misconceptions and lack of class knowledge.

 

First off 3 vs 1. The one should expect to die. Three of anything vs one of anything... game over. However that said I have as a sorc killed three people attacking me. CC one burst down the other and then self heal and kill the next. Sacrifice health for force heal break cc and kill the last. That said they were terribad players who were 12 15and 19 while I was 29. Granted in pvp they balance stats but your are missing some key skills and generally lack of experience playing that class.

 

First and foremost people say we DPS and HEAL. Now lets look at that... Its DPS OR HEAL. We cant do both at the same time. Even speced for heals I do 800 with one and 1200 with the other that 1200 is on a 3 second cast and the 800 is a 1.5. Those heals can be guaranteed to be 2 crits in a row thanks to a skill recklessness which happens once a minute. Criting them is about 3k IF I get the power buff in PvP. Thats barely 25% of a players hp every 3 seconds with buffs and crits and stims. With out it I am coming in at about 12% per 3 seconds or 9% every 1.5. While yes I can heal through a 1v1 in pvp I will be out of force in about 20 seconds. However there is rarely a 1v1, and usually a 5 vs 1 or more as people tend to wolfpack and steal the killing blow. Meaning my heals buy time if any because the person is usually dead by the time my key bind targets them and thanks to lag the spell actually casts. So cry me a river we can heal... yes. Efffectively... no.

 

What really matters is that every class has one if not multiple interrupts, stuns, knock-backs etc. This is what the source of the problem arrises from. LEARN TO PLAY YOUR CLASS. If you are a melee like an assassin and you stand there and watch me heal as you are beating me in the face you are wrong. Stun me, cc me, interrupt me... Do something to stop me from casting. You have the abilities. As a caster class I should never be able to cast or heal when 5 people are beating me into the ground especially when I am casting something that has a 3 second cast time. I mean how hard is it to press interrupt.

 

I will say that when the class is played properly... the sorc is a ball of DPS. It is shocking how much we can unload. It is because a player sits down reads the talents, reads the skills, reads the forums, uses the muscle that counts(read brain) and applies it all to a rotation that works.

 

For example...

Skill Tree

Open with Force Lightning and move isntantly(Your procing Wrath) > Instant cast Crushing Darkness > Affliction > Death Field > Force Lightning > Force Lightning > Force Lightning > Force Lightning(Your procing Wrath) > Instant cast Crushing Darkness > Affliction > Death Field > Force Lightning > Force Lightning > Force Lightning

 

Insert Recklessness to cause 2 force lightnings to be crits and Lightning Strike when Wrath procs and Crushing Darkness is on CD. Theres a lot more to it like electrocute to prevent a person from running away; overload to knock-back melee; Whirlwind to cc a healer; Jolt to interrupt some high dmg channel or self heal; purge to remove negative effects; force slow on a huttball carrier, melee charging you or enemy who is fleeing.

 

The point is I took the time to learn the class, so did hundreds of other players. So when you see some one who is facerolling you because you cant be bothered to interrupt a person or play your class to its fullest then please do not cry NERF. Instead cry I'm an idiot and need to learn my class. It is painfully obvious who has and has not.

 

Just to prove my point here is a picture of my last PvP match, look at it and notice...

http://www.lukewalsh.net/images/PvPFinalScore.jpg

 

The lowest person on there is a BH who did 37k dmg with 6 kills and 1k healing. The 4th person on there is a BH with 98k dmg 23 kills. Ok you may say but thats a BH not a SI. 3rd from the bottom is a SI 43k dmg done 12 kills and 0 healing. Im #1 rocking 154k dmg 32 kills and 33k healing. See the trend here?

 

Just in case you want to see how terribad some people are, and good others are. As there was a pretty pro sniper and BH on other other team... Here is the time lapsed FRAPS of the match at 300% speed.

(Fraps still uploading to youtube)

 

I really hope this clears up this asking for SI to be hit by the NERF hammer and people go learn to play their class. One side note on this... Some classes are stronger at killing others then the rest. Assassins will kick in as sorcs face, a sorc will kick in a snipers face etc.

[Electroflux]

I made a sorcerer.

 

Got to level 11.

Got invincible.

Got 27 kills, 0 deaths.

Got 7 gold medals.

MVP.

 

 

No sprint.

No bubble.

Just straight up force lightning baby.

 

Tell me that isn't overpowered against a team with level 30+ sages/sentinels and some shadows.

[Kamikazie]

Tell me that isn't overpowered against a team with level 30+ sages/sentinels and some shadows.

Its not... Level does not matter in PvP Your stats are all balanced. Thats why you have 10k+HP just like that level 30s.

[Electroflux]

Its not... Level does not matter in PvP Your stats are all balanced. Thats why you have 10k+HP just like that level 30s.

 

Your point? They have WAY more abilities then me and could easily smash me down. I only have a couple of lightning abilities and I blew everyone away without a single death while being targeted by multiple people. What game are you playing man?

[gumnutza]

Herp derp, I suck at video games herp derp.

[Kamikazie]

Your point? They have WAY more abilities then me and could easily smash me down. I only have a couple of lightning abilities and I blew everyone away without a single death while being targeted by multiple people. What game are you playing man?

 

The only one that matters as you say is Force Lightning which is the class's go to ability any way. However in reality its lvl 14 when you get Sprint that makes any difference and that is simply out of combat which is rare in PvP unless your fail.

[Malstryx]

I made a sorcerer.

 

Got to level 11.

Got invincible.

Got 27 kills, 0 deaths.

Got 7 gold medals.

MVP.

 

 

No sprint.

No bubble.

Just straight up force lightning baby.

 

Tell me that isn't overpowered against a team with level 30+ sages/sentinels and some shadows.

 

Wait a second, a level 11 sorcerer destroyed a team with level 30 and up sages...how is that op?

 

So you are op, but your class at level 30 and up can't beat you?

 

How does that prove anything? MVP? THAT proves nothing as well. As a ranged, it isn't impossible to avoid death depending how you play. Also, you survived to get credit on that many kills, it doesn't mean much more than that.

 

So not one of those stats have any real meaning, and the kills actually seem on the low side of what I've seen in the wz's.

[Vraesh]

Here's a solution for your problem:

 

Don't PvP.

 

Problem solved.

[Electroflux]

Wait a second, a level 11 sorcerer destroyed a team with level 30 and up sages...how is that op?

 

So you are op, but your class at level 30 and up can't beat you?

 

How does that prove anything? MVP? THAT proves nothing as well. As a ranged, it isn't impossible to avoid death depending how you play. Also, you survived to get credit on that many kills, it doesn't mean much more than that.

 

So not one of those stats have any real meaning, and the kills actually seem on the low side of what I've seen in the wz's.

 

Lol, quit raging and use your brain.

 

The kills are low because I am level 11, remember? A level 11 sorcerer managed to pull off some things like that against good opponents, imagine if I were level 20+ or something. I'd be ridiculously overpowered more then I already am. Plus, I was top on the charts for everything done in the warzone besides. So getting the most kills over EVERY person in the warzone at level 11 is baffling. It shouldn't happen, even with the bolster which hardly matters.

 

Those were all clearly valid points and you're just upset that your precious class is going to get nerfed. There is no question that Sorcerer is overpowered as there is never a single warzone where they aren't on top of the charts for whatever reason. You should be ashamed of yourself if you are a sorcerer and can't manage to pull this off. There is -zero- skill involved with this class.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Electroflux

[Akella]

So what you're saying is Sorcs are OP at lvl 11. Thanks for the info. No scoot on back to your forums and QQ how you got killed by a lvl 11 Sorc.

[mdualib]

Lol, quit raging and use your brain.

 

The kills are low because I am level 11, remember? A level 11 sorcerer managed to pull off some things like that against good opponents, imagine if I were level 20+ or something. I'd be ridiculously overpowered more then I already am. Plus, I was top on the charts for everything done in the warzone besides. So getting the most kills over EVERY person in the warzone at level 11 is baffling. It shouldn't happen, even with the bolster which hardly matters.

 

Those were all clearly valid points and you're just upset that your precious class is going to get nerfed. There is no question that Sorcerer is overpowered as there is never a single warzone where they aren't on top of the charts for whatever reason. You should be ashamed of yourself if you are a sorcerer and can't manage to pull this off. There is -zero- skill involved with this class.

 

You know why I keep saying that we should wait until lvl 50?

 

It`s actually quite simple: Say we nerf a class at lvl 11, or buff another class at the same level, we just don`t know what will happen once those classes reach the end game (Lvl 50). So, by changing something now, we might be possibly breaking something at lvl 50, which is where most of us are going to spend the bulk of our subscription time, right?

 

Also, just as a heads up, if you're going to criticize, or ask for a nerf, be as especific as possible. Don`t just say "Oh, they are too powerful, they need to be nerfed". That really does not add anything to the discussion at hand, and is flame fuel, imho.

 

Finally, mark my words: NO class is going to be nerfed on the next few updates. You heard that? No class at all. They might buff a class up a bit here and there, but, to nerf a class, after the HUGE beta process they just did... Well, let`s just be real and aknowledge they will probably wait for the real facts to show up in their database. Trust me, Bioware has all the tools they need to actually mathematically analize if sorcerers or any other class is overpowered.

 

Now everybody stop and lets head back to our game, shall we? That includes me too.

 

Over and out:D

 

Cheers

Edited December 21, 2011 by mdualib