So it's safe to say Sorcs can forget it

[Rabelle]

sorc/sage is the most feared on any battlefield because if you lose to one of those in a 1v1 and were seen, you get a debuff "laughing stock" on you that will last for weeks.

 

rofl!

[Chemic_al]

 

Note: I don't PvP ... but I do know from the DPS I do in Raids, that I'd lose every time to any other class.

 

Yeah in top tier gear I think sorc dps is easily 2/300 dps behind the top dps classes.

[darksidechemist]

Sorc have had it. But it isn't the end for me. I mean sure I made 3 toons to 50 in the forst 30 days of the game...assassin, sorc and PT Pyro. So I guess I was lucky in my choices. I played the Sorc up to the nerfing, shelved the sin to PvE tank and then played Pyro.

Played the parakeet build, ironfist, TheOpfs build and settled on my own 8/6/28 build by the time it was called a fotm. Good thing was that it enabled me to learn the counters to other classes since Pyro is easy to play. Since I am all WH with him I decided to go back to my Sorc and challenge myself.

 

As a full BM it took me close to 3 weeks of playing wz's to adapt to the damage and defense changes but also reading the forums here about tactics, builds and rotations. I had to learn a new style of play...hit and run, los'ing and finding a Pyro or Mara to set as my assist. This is where I see the term dps support applied to Sorc. Not enough burst as a fotm, enough cc to set back the enemy or slow them and sustained dps that is outhealed or tanked through to our death. Yet assisting a good player who knows who to play the map and not the scoreboard is what I find this class is regulated to.

I can finally survive 80% of my solo fights against fotm classes now, especially upgrading my trinkets, mh and oh weapons, but I cannot play like my Pyro or pre-1.2 styles. I know what I said here isn't anything new to us or even made to change your mind. I don't like the current state of the Sorc being glass with no cannon, yet making 3rd for objectives, damage and kills only means so much.

 

It is the hope that the good ideas you all come up with hasn't fallen on deaf ears with the combat class tweaks coming in 1.4 and that people like warultima, TheOpfs and others post fact and relevance for us to use. Here's to hope, thanks!

 

Hope his other posts aren't doctored like this one was...

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=523342

Edited August 23, 2012 by darksidechemist

[TheLordMaster]

I have a 2000+ Rated Sorc that has DPS and Healing War Hero gear, a 2000+ rated Operative (ON A DIFFERENT SERVER W/ DIFFERENT GUILD), a War Hero geared mercenary, a almost complete war hero geared vanguard, and a war hero geared marauder. I can say that in my honest opinion Sorcs are the 2nd worst DPS option and the worst healer option for pvp.

 

DPS lacks burst, DOTS are terrible because their damage breaks mez's and they last so long (20 seconds+) so not using your dots hurts your damage when a mez is being called for. The Lightning tree is terrible for PvP. Cast times are way to long. Proc chance on Chain lightning is not high enough, and again chain lightning can and will break mez's.

 

Healing sorcs have to long of cast times. Only 1 instant cast heal which makes them extremely easy to chain interupt. Their good defensive talents (rooted knockback and blind on bubble break) are to far into the lightning tree which makes sorcs lose their AOE heal which is the ONLY advantage that sorcs have over the other two healers.

 

Sorcs also have the only resource management system that damages them on use. Just brilliant.

 

Something DOES need to be done about the sorc, the nerfs were way to severe and sorcs are not in a good place.

[Chemic_al]

 

Something DOES need to be done about the sorc, the nerfs were way to severe and sorcs are not in a good place.

 

This stuff was pointed out numerous times before patches went live and fell on deaf ears, what's the betting it's ignored again?

[sithterror]

We will see when PTS goes live.

 

Where is my new content for August BW.?!

[veyl]

We will see when PTS goes live.

 

Where is my new content for August BW.?!

 

There was an event, the content already happened.

[Psythos]

Something DOES need to be done about the sorc, the nerfs were way to severe and sorcs are not in a good place.

 

Good post that sums up a lot of my problems with the class in its current state.

[Psythos]

This stuff was pointed out numerous times before patches went live and fell on deaf ears, what's the betting it's ignored again?

 

Exactly why I made this "it's safe to say sorcs can forget it" post. I feel like they are so busy with the f2p conversion that they just don't have time to address this major issue. Saying its working as intended and that their metrics show it is right about where they want tells me to start looking for a new game. I really feel like they have had MORE than enough time to come up with a solution. This bloW smoke up their *** since day 1 about practically everything routine is disgusting and tired.

[Leiralei]

Sorc is fine. Mara, Rage Jugg, and PT Pyro are OP. Merc, even Pyro, is worse off than Sorc. The OP ones need toning down to Sorc level and Merc needs to be buffed with more utility.

[Fozy]

L2P Sage's on my server are doing just fine. Its sad really... no more easy button and u all quit? sounds like u play a Sith

[Psythos]

L2P Sage's on my server are doing just fine. Its sad really... no more easy button and u all quit? sounds like u play a Sith

 

Where do I start the L2P quest at? I really could use the extra defense and damage so that my class is on par with the other dps classes in pvp.

[TwitchWINs]

This class is a free kill and you know it without a doubt yet we get nothing on here or anywhere that I have seen. Done with it. You guys don't want to put any effort in anything than why should we? Working as intended huh..That's what the metrics or whatever show's right? I'm curious what those supposed meters you have on everything show for Sorcs in pvp survivability vs any class in equal gear and equal skill.......ridiculousness. Feel free to share them with us because it is safe to say that being cryptic with all of your information hasn't helped keep subscribers anyway.

 

Stop making posts like this...Sorc is fine, and its a pretty sad thing to say because of how skill-less this game is right now but sorcerer is prolly the hardest class to play for having to be the brunt of a teams CC while kiting 1-2 players at all times + putting good #s + interrupting heals on CD + being the squishiest class in game. All this being said i still have no problem @ over 3k rating on my sorc...too bad i quit this crap game for gw2 and even that is boring

[DarthFamine]

sorcs are intended to be a support class, play them as such and you will do fine.

[CephalicRex]

Nobody plays a sorc to be support (besides those on the healing tree). People want to play sorcs to obliterate their enemies with sheer force power as the class description indicates. That is why people are upset. They go into the class thinking that they will be able to decimate the opposition with extreme prejudice, however they quickly find out that isn't the case whatsoever. In fact, far from it. They find themselves hiding behind the environment and running around foolishly just to stay alive. That isn't the sith experience, sorry friend.

 

I'm also of the opinion that sorc community needs to be even more vocal--more than we already are--about these issues; if not than nothing will ever change for our electrified friend. And pay no attention to the omnipresent condescending comments that state the contrary, these detractors are just don't want to see the day where a sorc can actually stand actually get a cast or two in. God forbid there is a ranged dps force using class that can actually at least make some think in a match, "hey, that sorc shooting lightning over there may actually be a threat."

[TheNahash]

Nobody plays a sorc to be support (besides those on the healing tree). People want to play sorcs to obliterate their enemies with sheer force power as the class description indicates. That is why people are upset. They go into the class thinking that they will be able to decimate the opposition with extreme prejudice, however they quickly find out that isn't the case whatsoever. In fact, far from it. They find themselves hiding behind the environment and running around foolishly just to stay alive. That isn't the sith experience, sorry friend.

 

I play a sorcerer and the truth is that we do have it bad in PVP and changes should be made to increase our survivability.

 

However, you should also realize that we ARE a support class whether we like it or not. The people that chose a sorcerer because they thought they'd be Palpatine, were wrong to do so and no, we shouldn't be able to kill anything in sight while standing somewhere, being virtually indestructible. This is not a movie. This is a game and every one should have a weak spot to make it interesting for people. It's also no "shame" that we support - it's actually quite cool because without support you really can't do much.

 

Whether we go healer or DPS, our main goal is to support. We wear light armor so we are by definition the easiest target and we need space between us and the opponent if we are to have a chance at winning. However we can knockback enemies, place dots on multiple players, stun and root opponents, heal or at least off-heal, extricate, force run, bubble up (even though the bubble doesn't make much of a difference when it comes to serious damage) and stop enemies from running away. Also, LoSing and running away do not make us less "epic". It just means that we need a different strategy to win than the brute power of marauders or the sneaky attacks of the operatives.

 

What is now the Marauder nightmare, used to be the Operative nightmare. Before the operatives got nerfed, all it took was a well-geared, semi-skilled operative to get behind us and we were practically dead before we could get off the ground after their opener. Was it frustrating? Of course. Was it logical? In a way, yes.

 

We - and every other class - should always have someone we have a hard time surviving from. Otherwise, WZs would be filled with unskilled sorcerers, sitting on top of things casting force lightning and deathfield. So yeah, we do need some changes in our skills to help us survive longer, but also people need to realize that we need protection, whether that is in the form of guard or pulling enemies from us if we are to actually assist.

 

PS: I'm not saying "go roll a marauder". That's just stupid and if you're playing a sorcerer that means you like it. But you have to realize that sorcerers or any other class will never reach the epic level of a movie character - or of the class description, for that matter - for the simple fact that this is a game that needs some balancing but not classes that can faceroll anything and anyone.

Edited August 29, 2012 by TheNahash

[warultima]

Most people roll Sorcs thinking its like the "Sorcerer Arch-type". Meaning low armor high burst. You kill stuff extremely fast at the sametime you die very quickly as well.

 

People are complaining when they finally level to 50 on their glass cannon just to find out they are all glass but no cannon.

[TheNahash]

Most people roll Sorcs thinking its like the "Sorcerer Arch-type". Meaning low armor high burst. You kill stuff extremely fast at the sametime you die very quickly as well.

 

People are complaining when they finally level to 50 on their glass cannon just to find out they are all glass but no cannon.

 

I get that. I also get that some people would be satisfied with sitting on the ledge in Huttball, away from battle, wrecking havoc on everyone below, but it shouldn't be like that. At least, not without being squishy.

 

We will never be the glass cannon with the biggest burst. But they could make us less fragile. That's what I think.

Edited August 29, 2012 by TheNahash

[CephalicRex]

I play a sorcerer and the truth is that we do have it bad in PVP and changes should be made to increase our survivability.

 

However, you should also realize that we ARE a support class whether we like it or not. The people that chose a sorcerer because they thought they'd be Palpatine, were wrong to do so and no, we shouldn't be able to kill anything in sight while standing somewhere, being virtually indestructible. This is not a movie. This is a game and every one should have a weak spot to make it interesting for people. It's also no "shame" that we support - it's actually quite cool because without support you really can't do much.

 

I'll tell you what. Yeah, my post was a bit more extreme than I intended it to. I wouldn't want to be some indestructible tidal force that no one can stand up to 1v1--I like a challenge too. There are ways to buff a sorc up without overpowering them--use your imagination. Anyway, we're playing a game based on a movie--one of the most iconic movie franchises of all time. And let's face facts, many of the other classes do stay faithful to their movie archetypes, like the sentinels and marauders both in story and gameplay. And I mean, it is no secret Bioware made the class to represent palpatine in game. I apologize for expecting a star wars game to play like star wars. The only thing wrong are people who are like, "this is the way it is, deal with it."

 

And the class is not support. There are a a couple of support trees, that doesn't mean that a class is forever condemned to mediocrity in terms of dps. People play it that way 'cause lightning is a bad joke passed around a funeral in pvp. If you like to play a sidekick sorc, that's fine and dandy. But really, you know deep down that it shouldn't be a sorcerer's only option in pvp. C'Mon, three trees and hybrid builds and the best a sorcerer can hope for

is support? Get real. Either that is bad game design or someone up there hates sorcs.

Edited August 29, 2012 by CephalicRex

[TheNahash]

I'll tell you what. Yeah, my post was a bit more extreme than I intended it to. I wouldn't want to be some indestructible tidal force that no one can stand up to 1v1--I like a challenge too. There are ways to buff a sorc up without overpowering them--use your imagination. Anyway, we're playing a game based on a movie--one of the most iconic movie franchises of all time. And let's face facts, many of the other classes do stay faithful to their movie archetypes, like the sentinels and marauders both in story and gameplay. And I mean, it is no secret Bioware made the class to represent palpatine in game. I apologize for expecting a star wars game to play like star wars. The only thing wrong are people who are like, "this is the way it is, deal with it."

 

And the class is not support. There are a a couple of support trees, that doesn't mean that a class is forever condemned to mediocrity in terms of dps. People play it that way 'cause lightning is a bad joke passed around a funeral in pvp. If you like to play a sidekick sorc, that's fine and dandy. But really, you know deep down that it shouldn't be a sorcerer's only option in pvp. C'Mon, three trees and hybrid builds and the best a sorcerer can hope for

is support? Get real. Either that is bad game design or someone up there hates sorcs.

 

I swear, that last statement would have made people go crazy back when the game first launched. Because back then, EVERYONE and their mother was saying how devs "loved" sorcerers. They made some changes and I guess sorcs went from being the favorite son to the black sheep of the family, huh? Just like devs love Empire and hate Reps. Mate... they don't care. All they care about is you and me staying in the game.

 

Also, sorcs were based on Palpatine. That doesn't mean we are Palpatine. Or that we should not conform to the sorcerer/mage "low survivability/heavy burst/utility" archetype. Granted, we need a bit more survivability skills or we could at least have an increase in our dps, but I think you are totally taking it the wrong way when I say "support".

 

Who said anything about being a sidekick? Am I wrong, or are all warzones team-based? Wouldn't it be fair to assume that all classes need each other to win? In a way, we are all each other's sidekick. I'm sorry, mate, but like it or not in order for us to survive we need tanks guarding us or at the very least other dps to help us get our opponents off our backs. What we can offer the team is healing or off-healing, dps, extrication and help with stunning/rooting an opponent. You can't expect us to live forever, we are a light armor class up against some pretty overpowered classes that will naturally focus us first.

 

As for the staying faithful to our story, I don't think we deviate from that at all. Yes, we could be a bit more self-sufficient when it comes to surviving, but it's not our role to survive the longest (that's a tank's role) and we are not supposed to be able to destroy everything in sight.

[CephalicRex]

I'm not not your mate, buddy.

 

Sorry, you sort of set me up for that South Park reference. I wasn't around for launch. From what I've read on the forums through various topics. I've gathered that Sorcs were pretty much beast until their AoE was toned down. Now people like me get to mess around with everyone's sloppy seconds after the class was used and abused, much like the Marauders of today. But hey, I guess I would be more angry if I had used a sorc in its prime and then watched it get knocked off its pedastool.

 

But. The fact that they were that powerful must indicate that the devs must of had some higher purpose for them rather than just support. I have no problem with a class like the sorc having support and utilitarian functions. Every class should. However, where I draw the line is having three trees do pretty much the same thing... You know, uh. Die. Light armor or not, if anything, that should be even more reason to give the class at least one more option in pvp to increase functionality. It seems the sorcs are just condemned in that limbo. Too weak to put off dps, and too fragile to stay alive as support for very long.

 

Anyways, that is all I'm saying. Nobody is wrong here in expecting a damage dealing class to be able to do damage. People have just grown complacent since they got nerf'd and accepted their new role. Yeah, you can throw some DoTs out there and mark your presence a little bit, but that isn't what the sorc is about. It is what the current game environment is about. The fact that everybody avoids the class's most iconic tree, if not the most iconic tree in star wars--lightning--like the plague is testament to that point.

[Hairyzac]

If you feel sorcerers need fixing, please contribute to the ongoing thread I created for 3 changes or fixes to the sorcerer class.

[CephalicRex]

Yep. If we get enough suggestions on that thread someone may take a few suggestions to heart and implement them in-game. (Wishfull thinking)

[veyl]

Yep. If we get enough suggestions on that thread someone may take a few suggestions to heart and implement them in-game. (Wishfull thinking)

 

There's also this Class Feedback Thread for Sorcerers.

 

It seems to have disappeared from the front page but it should also be posted in.

[Psythos]

Yep. If we get enough suggestions on that thread someone may take a few suggestions to heart and implement them in-game. (Wishfull thinking)

 

It is very wishful thinking. I have been wishful thinking for quite a while. That is why I created this thread. At this point I feel like they are just going to stick with working as intended. They haven't done anything to make me think otherwise. With free to play being their obvious priority It does seem like it is safe to say sorcs can forget it..

 

To all of the people saying we are support and that is that, I do not agree. This is a mmo and all classes should be support in some way but to say that a class can't be more than that is just nonsense. It is just a poor excuse for bad design. If it said sorcs were support in their description and I rolled one I'd probably be on here saying we are not support enough because I'd rather have almost any other class by my side.