Took a 6,002 smash hit from Jugg

[Darth_Philar]

It also requires 3 GCD to set up (notice I wrote set up, not use) a big Cull for a Sniper or Operative but...

1. it doesn't do as much damage, (or can match up the damage but on the full 3s duration in Sniper's case),

2. it is dodge/deflect-able, partially shieldable

3. it is much more predictable because the requirements are on the target not on the user, and some moves used are fancy (for exemple corrosive Grenade is easily noticable, and Weakning blast is not bad though).

4. If the target dies prematurely, you have to re-do the full preparation. (Singularity stacks remain on you if the target dies...)

 

No need to say that it is only on one target, and that if the DoT are cleansed (this is still possible even with the talent which let a weaker DoT in case of cleanse) that the damage go down, down...

This. And true even if you're not a healer. Sometimes they don't even have to attack someone before when they use the +6 Focus/Rage, or Zen. Good luck to defend/predict against someone who didn't attack at all and then jump at you, rooting you and... SMASH !!! - in da face

 

You are leaving out the part where the Agent can still do effective DPS between those Culls, while the Rage Warrior is basically Smash>survive for 12 seconds>repeat. They are a one trick pony that consists of AoE burst followed by 12 seconds of waiting+building up the next Smash. Are they effective at what they do? Yes. Are they OP? I think the fact that almost no one uses them answers that question.

[TheSolidPat]

That's funny, because I never see vengeance juggs in PVP, do you play on a PVE or RP server or something?

 

In our PVP guild we had all pure Rage Juggs except 1. He was Hybrid Immortal/vengeance and was mostly a guarder.

 

Do not forget there is a very advanced Rage spec that can beat the full Veangeance spec easily on survivability. I said advanced because a few people know this and secondly, it takes a tricky set of gear. That spec retains 90% of the Jugg damage but in a 1v1 encounter, it is surprising to anyone. I will not list that spec nor the gear setup on this forum by respect to it's creator, so don't bother asking.

 

As for Smash 6k then surviving for 12 secs... I don't know where you get this. Obliterate crits for 3k, Scream Crits for 3.5k-4.5k, Ravage hits just as hard as Vengeance Spec. I never have trouble filling my globals.

[Siorac]

My point about the set up required seems to have been lost.

 

It requires 3 GCDs to use a big smash. That means that you didn't get hit for 6k, you got hit for 2k three times.

When put into the correct perspective, Smash doesn't really seem so bad. It just looks really bad because you don't see the 4.5 second "cast time" required to pull it off.

 

Well if you put it that way then you also have to count the damage done by Force Exhaustion, Force Stasis and Force Leap/Zealous Leap. And then it's more like 9k in 3 GCDs.

 

I do not think Focus Guardians/Rage Juggernauts are overpowered.

[Darth_Philar]

That's funny, because I never see vengeance juggs in PVP, do you play on a PVE or RP server or something?

 

In our PVP guild we had all pure Rage Juggs except 1. He was Hybrid Immortal/vengeance and was mostly a guarder.

 

Do not forget there is a very advanced Rage spec that can beat the full Veangeance spec easily on survivability. I said advanced because a few people know this and secondly, it takes a tricky set of gear. That spec retains 90% of the Jugg damage but in a 1v1 encounter, it is surprising to anyone. I will not list that spec nor the gear setup on this forum by respect to it's creator, so don't bother asking.

 

As for Smash 6k then surviving for 12 secs... I don't know where you get this. Obliterate crits for 3k, Scream Crits for 3.5k-4.5k, Ravage hits just as hard as Vengeance Spec. I never have trouble filling my globals.

 

Ah, you're one of those mythical Warriors who not only has 100% melee uptime, never has to build or use Fury pips, AND is crit capped while still able to attain the same amount of power as a power stacker. Do you pay extra to play this version that no one else gets to play or does Bioware just really like you?

[Siorac]

Ah, you're one of those mythical Warriors who not only has 100% melee uptime, never has to build or use Fury pips, AND is crit capped while still able to attain the same amount of power as a power stacker. Do you pay extra to play this version that no one else gets to play or does Bioware just really like you?

 

He uses a very advanced Rage spec, probably 31/31/31.

[Altheran]

You are leaving out the part where the Agent can still do effective DPS between those Culls, while the Rage Warrior is basically Smash>survive for 12 seconds>repeat. They are a one trick pony that consists of AoE burst followed by 12 seconds of waiting+building up the next Smash.

Don't try to make things look like they don't do any DPS during that build up time. Yes during that time Sniper's numbers are higher, but guess what : they cast, they don't do any instant.

Don't be fooled by numbers. I think they are on par during the filler time. Series of Shot equals Ravage, Ambush equals Force scream + an other random ability, Snipe (minus cast time) equals Vicious Slash. About Operative, it is well known that once they have used their Tactical they have nothing left... plus, the energy cost of lethality is less-friendly with Operative because they don't cast so they don't regen their energy pool like a Sniper would, and so they can't really fight during the build up time, there will be lots of rifle shots (basic attack) unless he burns out his Adrenal Probe.

If there is a "one trick pony" here, I'd say it is the Operative, not the Warrior.

 

Are they effective at what they do? Yes. Are they OP? I think the fact that almost no one uses them answers that question.

No one uses them ? Are you kidding me ? If I were to count every Focus/Rage per Vigilence/Vengeance, it would be a 5-6:1 or higher ratio. No need to say that in general there is at least one Focus/Rage per side and per warzone.

[Veeius]

Just finished a pvp match. I was hit with a smash from a jugg for 6,002 damage, my total hp is 14239. How can anyone not be upset from a hit like that? Yes I'm in recruit gear, this is going to be a brutal climb to get better gear....sigh.

 

I was hit again by the same person for 5,8XX, dont remember the exact amount, later in the same match.

 

Your gear sucks. Get better gear with more expertise.

 

Also, you should really be complaining about an ac that's ACTUALLY OP, like, I dunno, pt pyro's.

[-evx-]

Smash specced juggernauts/guardians are only as good as the other focused damage around them and everyone's ability to coordinate burst. Edited August 10, 2012 by -evx-

[Stradoo]

is this just a play-by-play of big hits you take, and then complain about on the forum?

 

lol!!

[Altheran]

Smash specced juggernauts/guardians are only as good as the other focused damage around them and everyone's ability to coordinate burst.

 

Not sure to understand you.

 

Did you mean, in other words that the most teamplay and coordination there is, the more the Focus/Rage spec become good ?

[dcgregorya]

Next match, think it was the same person. Was hit for

 

6925 lol

 

Having so much fun!

 

Is it better to eat 2x 4800 HP railshots from a pyro? 4k anni's from a marauder while bleeding at 1000hp/sec backed by a 4k dispatch? Sniper ambushes for 5k followed by a 4k takedown?

 

Rage juggs to very low single target damage - just side step their smash or eat it and burst them down.

[Erudain]

I used to be an pvper like you, but then I took a 6002 smash hit in the knee....

[Sippix]

Your gear sucks. Get better gear with more expertise.

 

Also, you should really be complaining about an ac that's ACTUALLY OP, like, I dunno, pt pyro's.

 

It took 9 pages to see it, but someone finally brought up Pyro PT's.

[Kophar]

Yep VG's/PT's are way to OP. Constantly seeing this days rep teams of 3-5 VG's, its just impossible to bring down a team like this.

I allready told this before, when u start seeing alot of players using the same class in the same grp over and over, it means that the class is OP.

Im just wondering why BW took only 2 months to nerf sorcerers on release and they are taking till now 3-4 months to nerf these class cause its plain and obvious that VG's/PT's are OP.

Nerf VG's/PT's and nerf ST/MR.

[Sippix]

Yep VG's/PT's are way to OP. Constantly seeing this days rep teams of 3-5 VG's, its just impossible to bring down a team like this.

I allready told this before, when u start seeing alot of players using the same class in the same grp over and over, it means that the class is OP.

Im just wondering why BW took only 2 months to nerf sorcerers on release and they are taking till now 3-4 months to nerf these class cause its plain and obvious that VG's/PT's are OP.

Nerf VG's/PT's and nerf ST/MR.

 

This thread isn't about PT/Van damage - It's about Smash/Sweep damage. Besides, a PT/Van only has ONE defensive ability that only lasts 12 seconds (providing 25% damage mitigation) and is on a 2 minute cd. Juggs/Guards have far better survivability with multiple defensive cd's. I'm not whining about one or the other...I'm just saying, If you want to stop a PT from doing damage, then kill it - It's not that hard.

[Azygous]

A. Your in recruit gear if your hp is 14239

 

B. The Jug is I assume wearing Full WH stacked with augs

 

C. You need to get geared and suck it up

 

Jugs and maras can hit for 6k with smash in power swapped WH gear with pwr augments on wh geared people. Play rwz much?

[Sippix]

Jugs and maras can hit for 6k with smash in power swapped WH gear with pwr augments on wh geared people. Play rwz much?

 

I can testify to this. I regularly get hit with 5k-6k Smashes/Sweeps.

 

I'm not calling nerf on it, though, because it's not like they can do 5k every 6 seconds, then set up a 9k+ burst every 18 seconds. You're only getting hit with 6k every 9/15 seconds (depending if you're spec'd into certain skills), at best.

[zxckakel]

Think of it as an initiation, like a rite of passage. Well you pawned a lot of lowbie characters in level 10-49 so think of it as a rookie turning pro.

[mulzii]

its only AoE damage if you folks bunch up. I cannot count the amount of times i'm off attacking someone and they run for a pack of 3-5 other people on their team. Its like setting out the silver platter. PErhaps people shouldnt be setting up the jug/guard for the big aoe smash? Pvp awareness.

 

And in regards to having smash hit that hard to one person, i get hit regularly with 5+ rails, takedowns, executes, dispatches, etc. not to mention you can avoid it pretty easy, its only got a 5m range.

[anwg]

Unless you use your cc breaker on charge (or you are a sniper), you can't avoid the first smash Edited August 24, 2012 by anwg