Sorcs in PvP....

[islander]

Incorrect. You find it better because Hybrid Specs ARE better than 31's.

 

I dunno about that. A truly good sorc 31 healer will be more useful for healing. However, I'm probably (objectively) equal or better then 7 out of 10 31-point sorc healers on my server and that's still contributing some situational DPS (I focus more on the actual damage skills - death field, force lightning for the slow, shock - I know dots are only situationally useful although crushing darkness is effective.

 

Probably because I used to be a 31 pointer myself. I like healing, just hated being a complete pinata.

 

I still go into matches with the intention of healing, but sometimes random queues load you in with 3 other healers sooo then I DPS the best I can.

Edited August 9, 2012 by islander

[MidichIorian]

...while balance sages/madness sorcs have the most team utility of any other AC IMO.

Couldn't disagree more. You can afford to constantly throw bubbles on your team mates as a hybrid and you're never low on force. That is IMO more utility than the extra stun. How much "utility" are you when you constantly have to fill up on force away from the battle or cut your HP in half through consumption?

 

DPS'wise you're doing 30 % more damage through dots on a madness spec but the uptime on a hybrid is more than making up for that.

[Larry_Dallas]

I dunno about that. A truly good sorc 31 healer will be more useful for healing. However, I'm probably (objectively) equal or better then 7 out of 10 31-point sorc healers on my server and that's still contributing some situational DPS (I focus more on the actual damage skills - death field, force lightning for the slow, shock - I know dots are only situationally useful although crushing darkness is effective.

 

Probably because I used to be a 31 pointer myself. I like healing, just hated being a complete pinata.

 

I still go into matches with the intention of healing, but sometimes random queues load you in with 3 other healers sooo then I DPS the best I can.

 

You've pretty much nailed the tradeoff of corruption and corruption hybrids, but that's not what the person you've quoted was talking about. Unless I'm confusing him with someone else, he's of the (rather emphatic) belief that all possible sorc hybrids, most notably the dead-since-march lightning madness hybrid, are far more effective than all sorc pures.

 

After playing a sorcs in warzones forever, playing a carnage mara regularly in ranked, leveling to 50 and gearing an op healer and now switching between pyro and tank spec on a PT every couple days, I've yet to see any evidence for why anyone would think any lightning madness hybrid is good for anything but dying. It fills resolve too fast to deal with carnage (not like it could anyway). Doesn't hit a single target hard enough to be a nuisance to op healers (and chain lightning's damage is easily erased by using exactly one global cooldown). Doesn't hit the healer even remotely hard enough to kill him. And doesn't do enough single target damage to kill/doesn't have the tools to maintain 11 meters against a PT consistently, which, against a pyro, means death.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Larry_Dallas

[Daiyukie]

You've pretty much nailed the tradeoff of corruption and corruption hybrids, but that's not what the person you've quoted was talking about. Unless I'm confusing him with someone else, he's of the (rather emphatic) belief that all possible sorc hybrids, most notably the dead-since-march lightning madness hybrid, are far more effective than all sorc pures.

 

After playing a sorcs in warzones forever, playing a carnage mara regularly in ranked, leveling to 50 and gearing an op healer and now switching between pyro and tank spec on a PT every couple days, I've yet to see any evidence for why anyone would think any lightning madness hybrid is good for anything but dying. It fills resolve too fast to deal with carnage (not like it could anyway). Doesn't hit a single target hard enough to be a nuisance to op healers (and chain lightning's damage is easily erased by using exactly one global cooldown). Doesn't hit the healer even remotely hard enough to kill him. And doesn't do enough single target damage to kill/doesn't have the tools to maintain 11 meters against a PT consistently, which, against a pyro, means death.

 

So from your character progression, you're basically a FOTM reroller who thinks Sorcs are too squishy?

[Jaiyne]

Couldn't disagree more. You can afford to constantly throw bubbles on your team mates as a hybrid and you're never low on force. That is IMO more utility than the extra stun. How much "utility" are you when you constantly have to fill up on force away from the battle or cut your HP in half through consumption?

 

DPS'wise you're doing 30 % more damage through dots on a madness spec but the uptime on a hybrid is more than making up for that.

 

Aren't you the person who was QQing about your sage and supposedly quit several times with lots of fanfare in these very forums? I could be wrong here; and if so, my apologies. However, utility has little to do with an "extra stun" and all about mobility to get in and get out, root at critical times when the rest of your team has white barred a target instantly, etc. We make great floaters.

 

If you have never played Balance, you'll have little concept of the utility of one. It IS challenging to manage force issues, which is why I wouldn't recommend the tree to 90% of the sorcs/sages out there because they just can't do it well enough.

[islander]

You've pretty much nailed the tradeoff of corruption and corruption hybrids, but that's not what the person you've quoted was talking about. Unless I'm confusing him with someone else, he's of the (rather emphatic) belief that all possible sorc hybrids, most notably the dead-since-march lightning madness hybrid, are far more effective than all sorc pures.

.

 

Right, but what I am saying is that if I were as committed/good at being a 31 point healer as I was my 21 point hybrid, I would be useful to a ranked team.

 

I just don't find 31 point corruption pure any fun anymore, which is why I'm where I am spec wise now. when you are simply PvPing the same 4 maps over and over again, you gotta at least enjoy the character you have.

Edited August 10, 2012 by islander

[FodderofCannon]

The OP is a troll and nothing more. Anyone with half a brain can see a dps sorc is vastly underpowered compared to other dps classes. My Sent has never lost to a DPS sorc. Not ever. It's not even close, and a healing sorc just takes a few more seconds.

 

If BW doesn't act soon all WZ will be is PT/Vans's, Mara/Sents, and OP'/Smug healers. You all know its true so stop pretending otherwise.

[Ssfbistimg]

Couldn't disagree more. You can afford to constantly throw bubbles on your team mates as a hybrid and you're never low on force. That is IMO more utility than the extra stun. How much "utility" are you when you constantly have to fill up on force away from the battle or cut your HP in half through consumption?

 

DPS'wise you're doing 30 % more damage through dots on a madness spec but the uptime on a hybrid is more than making up for that.

 

seriously I only run out of force once a warzone. very few battles last that long. I throw bubbles, I throw heals I drop 4 to 5k crits with force in balance. And even if you do run low on force hello use noble sacrifice a couple times pop ur medpac and good to go. Im a better off healer then a hybrid dps sage. Hybrid dps sages do way more fluff damage. I Have great single target burst dps with my stalker gear set bonus.

[Ssfbistimg]

The OP is a troll and nothing more. Anyone with half a brain can see a dps sorc is vastly underpowered compared to other dps classes. My Sent has never lost to a DPS sorc. Not ever. It's not even close, and a healing sorc just takes a few more seconds.

 

If BW doesn't act soon all WZ will be is PT/Vans's, Mara/Sents, and OP'/Smug healers. You all know its true so stop pretending otherwise.

 

what server you on, cause you obviously have crappy sages/sorcerers on your server then.

[Teambo]

seriously I only run out of force once a warzone. very few battles last that long. I throw bubbles, I throw heals I drop 4 to 5k crits with force in balance. .

 

Please, stop throwing numbers like these which are completely off the hook. I drop 3.3k to 3.5k crits in average with the exeptional above 4K on a green nub. This is in full WH with mental scarring specced entirely. With mod swapping I could probably be topping high 3ks on similarly geared people, but even then that wouldnt be representative of what the average player can do with a balance sage, because of the gear grind needed to achieve such numbers.

 

Also, i run OOF pretty regularly with my 31 balance build and "popping a medpack after using noble sacrifice" just doesnt cut it when you're in big fights for mid/south in wz. Force management is definately an issue with a balance sage, after the initial DPS you will be way less effective if there is no way to meditate in between fights, you'll be a worse dps compared to most other dps classes.

[Steele_dk]

The OP is a troll and nothing more. Anyone with half a brain can see a dps sorc is vastly underpowered compared to other dps classes. My Sent has never lost to a DPS sorc. Not ever. It's not even close, and a healing sorc just takes a few more seconds.

 

If BW doesn't act soon all WZ will be is PT/Vans's, Mara/Sents, and OP'/Smug healers. You all know its true so stop pretending otherwise.

 

Amen. There is not a balance atm and anyone claiming its fine l2p etc. is just trolling or living in a dreamworld.

My full wh 21.5k sorc feels like he is in recruit gear vs an equally geared marauder. Mercs having it rough aswell atm.

[skotish]

Amen. There is not a balance atm and anyone claiming its fine l2p etc. is just trolling or living in a dreamworld.

My full wh 21.5k sorc feels like he is in recruit gear vs an equally geared marauder. Mercs having it rough aswell atm.

 

My Merc is too 20k health death comes quick help is my favorite chat call

Ps kudos to OOOGLY as he does keep the forum entertained with threads

[TwitchWINs]

Amen. There is not a balance atm and anyone claiming its fine l2p etc. is just trolling or living in a dreamworld.

My full wh 21.5k sorc feels like he is in recruit gear vs an equally geared marauder. Mercs having it rough aswell atm.

 

My sorc and two others in my guild have 2.7-3k RWZ rating. Keep in mind we mostly run double sorc dps. If you need help ask.

[Steele_dk]

My sorc and two others in my guild have 2.7-3k RWZ rating. Keep in mind we mostly run double sorc dps. If you need help ask.

 

My world does not revolve around high rating, but thank you for the offer

Edited August 10, 2012 by Steele_dk

[AdamLKvist]

Amen. There is not a balance atm and anyone claiming its fine l2p etc. is just trolling or living in a dreamworld.

My full wh 21.5k sorc feels like he is in recruit gear vs an equally geared marauder. Mercs having it rough aswell atm.

 

Good sir, while I absolutely agree with you regarding the balance of sorc/sage in that we definitely need something done to us to improve competitive viability your gear is horribly optimised. When you're closing in on BiS (Best in Slot) you're going to have 18-19k hp.

 

If you take a look at your gear and find mods with 64 (or 61, cant remember sorry ) and 12 secondary (crit,power) you have found a huge flaw in your equipment. I'm not saying all sorc/sages are supposed to min/max gear to exchange for mods with lower main stat higher secondary (39 power) but in order to be properly WH+augmented with gear thats what you need to do.

 

Personally I am 3 slots + 2 PvE armorings wrist/belt away from BiS and my bonus damage is hovering around (at work no exact values sorry) 950 - when I'm fully optimised I will have over 1000 power, with bonus damage not far behind. I absolutely agree in that we can not handle certain classes without massive help from your team and I despite a game built around dependancy eliminating individual skillcap - no matter. There's no class in the game (other than possibly Lethality GS/Snipers) that can out damage me in a warzone. The problem, I feel, is that while our total damage is nothing short of amazing our effective damage is far behind any of the other classes - all our builds depending on long DoTs makes sure of that.

Edited August 10, 2012 by AdamLKvist

[MidichIorian]

Aren't you the person who was QQing about your sage and supposedly quit several times with lots of fanfare in these very forums? I could be wrong here; and if so, my apologies. However, utility has little to do with an "extra stun" and all about mobility to get in and get out, root at critical times when the rest of your team has white barred a target instantly, etc. We make great floaters.

 

If you have never played Balance, you'll have little concept of the utility of one. It IS challenging to manage force issues, which is why I wouldn't recommend the tree to 90% of the sorcs/sages out there because they just can't do it well enough.

I "announced my retirement" once. I thought it was pretty obvious that it was a over the top drama queen thread and even stated that my sub had not run out yet. I figured that it couldnt hurt to complain about the class, some buff might come out of it. That's the closest to "I quit" I've come.

 

Secondly, I wasnt aware that we had to post our credentials here. I'm currently legacy 47 and working on my third sage/sorc. I'm mostly playing on my sage atm, a sage I re-speeced from madness to hybrid two weeks ago. My main sorc is still madness and I'm noticing a significant difference every time I swap between the specs. So from day one and up until two weeks ago I've always played as madness, even during the big CL era.

 

I still think you are exaggerating utility because it's not like I'm playing my hybrid much different than my full madness. The only difference between the two is that I don't have the extra 30 % on dots and CR on the hybrid. If anything I'd say that I'm burning down single targets faster on the hybrid because with procs I'm quite often able to fire off instant disturbance and instant force wave followed by project while having affliction and mindcrush as background dots. Considering how low dots are on our class and the fact that you still have to use TT/FL on a mandness/balance to get wrath you won't burn people down by just being mobile.

Edited August 10, 2012 by MidichIorian

[KimbonaterX]

You can try to shine this class up all you want to, but a turd is still a turd, shiny or not. My jug is far more effective in PVP than my sorc, and the jug has just as much "utility".

Here's what the typical dps sorc does in warzones:

1.Bubble random teammates and throw emergency heals to possibly turn the tide of an existing battle between him and one of the enemies. Don't touch that force lightning button unless you want to say "HEY IM SQUISHY PLEASE BEAT ME DOWN IM AN EASY KILL".

2. Throw afflication on all enemies within range after tossing your death field to help pad those scoreboard numbers at the end, because god knows you're not killing anyone.

3. Toss random CC's to help teammates who are capping nodes from being interrupted.

4. Run for your life whenever a 1-on-1 situation occurs, unless it's another sorc...in which case it's like 2 kids beating on each other with pillows.

 

Sorcs in warzones are a joke. Whenever I'm playing my Jug they are the first ones I look for because they are so incredibly easy to take out, with mercs being a close #2.

[fungihoujo]

In this game every AC has 1-2 secondary stats that are the most important for them. While stacking stats that are not these "priority" stats will still give them a benefit, they would benefit more from stacking their priority.

 

WIth Sorcs, Alacrity actually serves to hurt your character since all it really does is make you go Out of Force much more quickly while adding no real benefit (healers with their ridiculously long cast times may actually get some marginal use from Alacrity and are the exception to the rule).

 

Problem is double- not only does alacrity in theory not work particularly well in any situation other than Lightning while also taking the spot of another stat (crit, surge, power, willpower are all a hundred times more useful) and increase your force use while lowering your damage due to lacked stats while not doing a thing to help with your resource regen (which is a huge problem in Madness and Corruption both). It ALSO suffers from the fact that alacrity in this game gives less than any other game with the mechanic- it just doesn't increase cast speed enough- and with the massive length of your dark infusion for healing a 2.5 or 2 second heal are both going to be interrupted- so in both cases you must be out of combat to use it.

 

 

And that pretty much is the crux of why the sorc fails so hard- look at the forums, look at EVERY single response by marauders or other classes saying that the sorc is fine- IF you are out of combat. You're fine at healing IF you are moving and unable to heal. You're fine at damage IF you are running away and unable to damage. You are fine at not being leapt to IF you are out of LoS and thus unable to hit your targets. No dot protection, weak damaging dots with high CDs, terrible ability synergy, resource builder that deals massive amounts of damage to yourself AND eats away a GCD at the same time, a single HoT that has a CD, a short cast emergency heal that doesn't heal enough to be an emergency heal despite costing enough force that it should be.

 

Madness spec can be neutered by a single healer without breaking a sweat. Heal spec can be neutered by anyone with an interrupt without breaking a sweat. Lightning spec blows so hard it pretty much comes pre-neutered. Your success as a sorc ALWAYS depends on other players- either facing against terrible players, or, playing with a superior team that keeps you alive.

 

If sorcs MUST rely on another class for their survival, for their ability to get off heals uninterrupted, and their ability to assist on getting a kill- they either need a support advantage- which when you look at CC comparisons or short term buffs, they are actually behind half the classes on support and CC- or something needs to be done about other classes.

 

You can't keep saying 'well a sorc's job isn't to survive so that is why they are free kills'- when that's not true of other classes. Why does a mara have so many defensives, with their huge pressure and damage dealing ability they should have to rely entirely on having a healer- there shouldn't be a combat stealth, multiple mitigators and absolutely not having a pally bubble, or a spec that gives them almost THREE TIMES THE DURATION OF ROOTS ANY OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME CAN MANAGE.

 

It's not even close on balance- anyone who plays a marauder and sorc at 50 immediately sees the difference, it's like playing an entire different game.

[Jaiyne]

I "announced my retirement" once. I thought it was pretty obvious that it was a over the top drama queen thread and even stated that my sub had not run out yet. I figured that it couldnt hurt to complain about the class, some buff might come out of it. That's the closest to "I quit" I've come.

 

 

I definitely wasn't asking for your resume; and in fact we agree on a lot of the issues with the Sorc/Sage overall. I just disagree with you about 31 Balance/Madness talent. It succeeds where the two other 31 point talents don't. Whether that's saying a lot or a little, well, that depends on how you view the AC overall. I think we both agree it's weak in areas where it shouldn't be

[unixbomber]

4. Run for your life whenever a 1-on-1 situation occurs, unless it's another sorc...in which case it's like 2 kids beating on each other with pillows.

 

I will admit, I laughed.

[sithloardbob]

Apparently all of you dissing on this post don't get that he clearly said it was for "Lowbie PVP" and that ugly is waiting to see what 50 gets like and hopes it gets better.... And. On another note all you people saying sorcs aren't good at 50 have apparently never played. Against or with a good sorc... Iv seen a number or sorcs/sages in 50 PVP tear it up.. Including one of or if not the best sorc iv ever seen .. His name is fudiliy he. Puts damn near to top dmg and 200-250k healing as well

 

 

Also this is a team game and as any class working together with another they will do great.... That is. What ugly is Trying to say all of those people who think It is a 1v1 kill rest are why we lose the matches we lost

 

 

 

And btw this is the other sorc he. Plays with

[Nocadoj]

Puts damn near to top dmg and 200-250k healing as well

 

You do realize numbers mean very little in competitive RWZs right? It is about burst damage, utility, survivability, and coordination.

 

I do around 700k damage and 200k healing in regular warzones depending on the length, but get wrecked against 2600+ teams in RWZ because they burst me down in about 5 seconds even when I have a guard on me. We have no damage reduction abilities like PT bubble and Mara bubble/vanish.

 

The only way to survive as a Sage dps is to hang far back and peeling off of your healers, while completely ignoring nodes because if you get too close you get grappled and destroyed in only a couple GCDs.

 

Can Sages be effective with the right comp? yes. Is it more logical to bring 3 button monkey Vanguards in to do undeserved burst damage? Yes

Edited August 10, 2012 by Nocadoj

[DCVAN]

My sorc and two others in my guild have 2.7-3k RWZ rating. Keep in mind we mostly run double sorc dps. If you need help ask.

 

What kind of spec are you running rateds with, Bestworld? I would be impressed if you were still running lightning/telekinetics. I'm not a fan of 31 point balance, but it might be my only option for rated dps.

[Nocadoj]

My sorc and two others in my guild have 2.7-3k RWZ rating. Keep in mind we mostly run double sorc dps. If you need help ask.

 

Can't wait for cross server rateds, I have a feeling that will change. In addition, your video mainly shows you 1) not being focused by more than 1 person, 2) fighting a 15k Sage, 13k Sage, 900 expertise apponent, and more undergeared players 1v1. Not very impressive at all.

 

Look for Casuals and PKers on Pot5 when season 1 starts, they are some of the best teams on our server and they don't waste time with dps sorcs to my knowledge.

 

Not saying you are a bad player at all, but your video does you no justice.

Edited August 10, 2012 by Nocadoj

[Givemedanger]

I don't mind our dps but we die too fast. We need a defensive ability on 1-2 min cooldown. Or make the whirlwind NOT break on our own dots.