Please give us something...

[GalacticKegger]

Yeah, but you can't just whip out a new Star Wars MMORPG. If you're lucky another one will be along in another decade or so.

See, that's the beauty of this being an MMO. No one is getting sick on the game inside the game - only here in the forums. Logging in to play the game is that new cake I'm whipping out. Edited August 7, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Valkirus]

I like chocolate and I LOVE chocolate cake. But if there is nothing chocolatey available to eat, then I'm fine with that. Eventually there will be chocolate cake, so I will simply look forward to it and grab another snack to satisfy my sweet tooth. Not imploding because there's no chocolate to eat doesn't mean I don't like chocolate. But it does mean that "I want it and I want it now" plays an insignificant role in my thought process.

 

Not sure how long you have followed this game or how much of the thousands of prelaunch videos, interviews and developer's notes you checked out before you bought the game....but for many...they do feel like they were mislead by the hype BioWare created for the game. And it has fallen waay short of those expectations. I will give you a couple examples....

 

they said during one of thier videos back before launch, a player's choices in the class story would have real impact on the outcome of that story..ether for the good or bad. Truth is...part from dark side, light side points and companion affection...your choices really make no difference and the outcome will end up being the same no matter what. And let's say you want to not have the Sith corruption from your dark side choices...why, you can even turn that off..

 

Another is crafting, they said it would be less powerful and complicated than SWG was, but better than what WoW's offers. Which is not true. WoW's better..and not by a small amount, but a lot imo. I leveled my Jedi Couselor to 50, had all my crafting levels to 400 ( which is super easy to do ) and all of his gear at the time he reached level 50 was better than what he could craft. And he has never ran any OP;s..only one level 50 FP and no PvP at all. You do that in WoW and by the time you reach your max level, you will have several crafted items from ether your own professions or from others off the AH. My 50 Jedi Counselor had better gear from quests, dailies, rep npc's, tokens, etc. than was even on the GTN by crafters.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Valkirus

[Goretzu]

See, that's the beauty of this being an MMO. No one is getting sick on the game inside the game - only here in the forums. Logging in to play the game is that new cake I'm whipping out.

 

That's not true, or I'd still be playing with the 30 people I came to SWTOR with, as oppsed to 0 of them (never mind the 24% retention rate).

 

And again if you do care about the game then it being in trouble will eventually degrade (and possibly terminate) your in game experience.

[Kharnis]

I like chocolate and I LOVE chocolate cake. But if there is nothing chocolatey available to eat, then I'm fine with that. Eventually chocolate cakedom will happen, so I will simply look forward to it and grab another snack to satisfy my sweet tooth. Not imploding because there's no chocolate to eat doesn't mean I don't like chocolate. What it does mean is that "I want it and I want it now" plays an insignificant role in my thought process.

 

If there weren't chocolate cake at all, that would be one thing. But they promised us chocolate cake. We came expecting chocolate cake. We eagerly awaited the chocolate cake to be cut up and served to us. And when they finally came out with the cake...

 

It turned out to be carob.

[GalacticKegger]

Not sure how long you have followed this game or how much of the thousands of prelaunch videos, interviews and developer's notes you checked out before you bought the game....but for many...they do feel like they were mislead by the hype BioWare created for the game. And it has fallen waay short of those expectations. I will give you a couple examples....

 

they said during one of thier videos back before launch, a player's choices in the class story would have real impact on the outcome of that story..ether for the good or bad. Truth is...part from dark side, light side points and companion affection...your choices really make no difference and the outcome will end up being the same no matter what. And let's say you want to not have the Sith corruption from your dark side choices...why, you can even turn that off..

 

Another is crafting, they said it would be less powerful and complicated than SWG was, but better than what WoW's offers. Which is not true. WoW's better..and not by a small amount, but a lot imo. I leveled my Jedi Couselor to 50, had all my crafting levels to 400 ( which is super easy to do ) and all of his gear at the time he reached level 50 was better than what he could craft. And he has never ran any OP;s..only one level 50 FP and no PvP at all. You do that in WoW and by the time you reach your max level, you will have several crafted items from ether your own professions or from others off the AH. My 50 Jedi Counselor had better gear from quests, dailies, rep npc's, tokens, etc. than was even on the GTN by crafters.

I have a private blog. I was following this game's press quite a bit and got the call to assist in testing. This is what I explored before any specific information was released: http://galactickegger.com/blog/swtor-will-the-game-match-the-hype/.

 

They weren't expectations because I've been playing video games since before commercial PCs existed. While I can't consider myself an expert as I've never designed one, I can consider myself as someone who's been around the block often enough to not overreact to pub. Did the game fulfill my every hope? Not even close. But I'm not holding out for the game that does ... I won't live long enough to see it. I doubt anyone will.

Edited August 7, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Skirata_Kal]

"The server numbers are once again in sharp decline,"

 

Proofs in the pudding, where is it?

 

I play every night 4pm start and we always have 3 fleets with 2 over 200 players and the 3rd 100 or so. How are we in a decline?

 

Oh, im on POT5

 

2 million copies sold, 1.7 million subs, then 1.3 million subs, and most recently on investor call "less than a million but well over half a million" (so I'm saying 600k-800k). Now the merges have had the effect of server numbers temporarily going up, but if the sub trend continues it make sense that the server numbers would be getting there as well.

 

There's no way to put a positive spin on losing more than half your initial players and going f2p less than a year after release (especially when they were initially, strongly denying any plans to do so). Remember, only 40% said it was the subscription that was their issue. Initially the story was that 40% left the game due to the subscription and that MANY of them (vague term there) would play every day if it were free. Now the story is that 40% left due to the sub and ALL of them would play every day if it were free. Changing the story like that effects credibility.

 

Look, I'm not a hater. I still like the game and hope they turn it around, but facts are facts and the virtual silence from the devs is not helping perceptions here. It ain't easy being optimistic here. Yes, some of the doom-sayers are overboard, but so are many of the fanbois.

[Valkirus]

I have a private blog. I was following this game's press quite a bit and got the call to assist in testing. This is what I was hoping for before any specific information was released: http://galactickegger.com/blog/swtor-will-the-game-match-the-hype/.

 

They weren't expectations because I've been playing video games since before commercial PCs existed. While I can't consider myself an expert as I've never designed one, I can consider myself as someone who's been around the block often enough to not overreact to pub. Did the game fulfill my every hope? Not even close. But I'm not holding out for the game that does ... I won't live long enough to see it. I doubt anyone will.

 

Cool. Then you should understand how many feel about this game from the results of the "hype BioWare created". I have several games which I have played in the past which have lived up the hype the developer's created. To name some from BioWare..Mass Effect 1 and 2. Dragon Age. KOTOR. Baldur's Gate. Great games which lived up to the hype. TOR however is a bit like any hype a company builds up for a product and then fails to deliver. Customers remember.

[BrunoLogan]

As I already said today on other thread, the lack of communication is disappointing.

Why so much secrecy! This is getting stupid and disrespectful!

I play since early access, I never stopped my subscription and since then I've been tolerant, defending the game and the devs but now it's getting ridiculous! If they think telling that the game getting F2P are news, they can shove those news somewhere else. The only thing they'll achieve with their current attitude is getting people mad and making people go away from the game! BW, you are being really really stupid! For the first time I'm thinking of unsubing... patience has its limits and BW is crossing them...

[GalacticKegger]

Look, I'm not a hater. I still like the game and hope they turn it around, but facts are facts and the virtual silence from the devs is not helping perceptions here. It ain't easy being optimistic here. Yes, some of the doom-sayers are overboard, but so are many of the fanbois.

QFT. Most are middle of the road - myself included. Some will pay to see the evolution firsthand (good or bad) and some won't. I find the game fun enough now to merit paying 50¢ a day. And I do agreed with your sentiment that the community's perception of Bioware would benefit greatly from influencial interaction that had more substance. Edited August 7, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Goretzu]

Did the game fulfill my every hope? Not even close. But I'm not holding out for the game that does ... I won't live long enough to see it. I doubt anyone will.

 

I dunno, I've seen a few of my "well this game is great, but it would be REALLY great if they did x, y and z as well" moments pan out.

 

Going back to the early 80's..... although some of them have taken 10+ year to occur.

 

Of course there have been more "Argh! why didn't they just do a, b and c!!!" moments.

[GalacticKegger]

Cool. Then you should understand how many feel about this game from the results of the "hype BioWare created". I have several games which I have played in the past which have lived up the hype the developer's created. To name some from BioWare..Mass Effect 1 and 2. Dragon Age. KOTOR. Baldur's Gate. Great games which lived up to the hype. TOR however is a bit like any hype a company builds up for a product and then fails to deliver. Customers remember.

Thank you. Hype has very little effect on me though due to mileage considerations. I do understand and accept how other people feel. I just wish people would understand and accept that as well. Edited August 7, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Bloodstealer]

I guess you dont remember back when they did the merges all the threads about queue times and that almost all the destination servers were hitting full every day.

 

The servers population has decreased from most servers hitting full everyday to only about 3-6 servers hitting full in a week and many servers (especially the PVP servers) just hitting heavy if that.

 

Doooh..... well of course it was busy then.. it was transfer time and I would imagine all destination servers were seeing unparrelled business isn't that obvious. The server pops would of been exagerated by that acrivity for a while, until things settled back down and players resumed their normal playing times etc.

 

Don't forget that we players are also a seasonal bunch... unless you live in the UK you may have noticed its summer time and well.. there are other distractions for people during the holiday season.. you know RL stuff.

For those of us in the UK... you have no excuse cos the rain and floods have prevented us from leaving our PC's and summertime has been cancelled this year!

 

But anyway who cares if Tor status says your server dropped 0.00556 this week..

Are populations still healthy - I say YES

Are you getting groups - I say YES,

Are PvP Wz's popping regularly - I say YES...

Well on Red Eclipse things look good, maybe not every minute of the day but its healthy and imeasurably busier than what we all saw 3 months ago. Sure I would imagine the game is still loosing players and for obvious reasons but the Question is what's more important to you - constantly looking at server stats and whinning that every blip means a serious decline without considering other factors OR getting into game and playing the game!

Edited August 7, 2012 by Bloodstealer

[Goretzu]

Thank you. I do understand and accept. Hype has very little effect on me though due to mileage considerations. I just wish people would understand and accept that as well.

 

It's not just hype though.

 

Take RvR, there was pre-launch hype there (which certainly sold more than a few boxes - I saw more than a few WAR guilds and players in the early days), but the reality was that ANY RvR was basically hoping for too much.

[GalacticKegger]

It's not just hype though.

 

Take RvR, there was pre-launch hype there (which certainly sold more than a few boxes - I saw more than a few WAR guilds and players in the early days), but the reality was that ANY RvR was basically hoping for too much.

For me it is until I see it for myself. If I see it, cool. If I don't - cool. Either way ... cool. So it boils down to whether or not what I am doing is fun. The day I stop having fun is the day I stop subscribing. I'm having fun so I continue to subscribe.

[Goretzu]

For me it is until I see it for myself. If I see it, cool. If I don't - cool. Either way ... cool. So it boils down to whether or not what I am doing is fun. The day I stop having fun is the day I stop subscribing. I'm having fun so I continue to subscribe.

 

Them saying they have RvR (or the artist formerly known as RvR) and it basically being unplayable and then removed is not "hype". There's many words for what it is, but "hype" is most definately not one of them.

[GalacticKegger]

Them saying they have RvR (or the artist formerly known as RvR) and it basically being unplayable and then removed is not "hype". There's many words for what it is, but "hype" is most definately not one of them.

About the only unfulfilled "expectations" Bioware might be held accountable for was Ilum and pulling RWZs from 1.2 after hyping it would be in the patch. Every MMO has done that at some point and to some degree because of technical issues. If someone wants to hitch their bandwagon to those 2 events then they are welcome to it.

 

Some people expect WoW's 3 expansions worth of end game. Some people expect DAoC's and WAR's combined decade of RvR. Some people expect Guild Wars' 3 expansions worth of GvG. Some people expect the best of everything that's ever been, but redesigned to fit the game as they envision playing it. That's too close to being a self-defeating personality disorder for my tastes. I'd rather just play the game and decide for myself.

Edited August 7, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Kharnis]

About the only unfulfilled "expectations" Bioware might be held accountable for was Ilum and pulling RWZs from 1.2 after hyping it would be in the patch. Every MMO has done that at some point and to some degree because of technical issues. If someone wants to hitch their bandwagon to those 2 events then they are welcome to it.

 

And "you can have whatever appearance you like because every green item has a matching orange version."

And "choices will have consequences."

And "be the hero of your personal Star Wars saga."

And "walking the path between the Light Side and the Dark Side will have its own rewards."

And "forget everything you think you know about MMOs, because the fans will let you know when you're wrong."

And "our zones are huge. Alderaan alone is bigger than four WoW zones."

 

Other than those (and others), though, you're right. Ilum and ranked warzones were the only "unfulfilled expectations."

[Goretzu]

About the only unfulfilled "expectations" Bioware might be held accountable for was Ilum and pulling RWZs from 1.2 after hyping it would be in the patch. Every MMO has done that at some point and to some degree because of technical issues. If someone wants to hitch their bandwagon to those 2 events then they are welcome to it.

 

Some people expect WoW's 3 expansions worth of end game. Some people expect DAoC's and WAR's combined decade of RvR. Some people expect Guild Wars' 3 expansions worth of GvG. Some people expect the best of everything that's ever been, but redesigned to fit the game as they envision playing it. That's too close to being a self-defeating personality disorder for my tastes. I'd rather just play the game and decide for myself.

 

They failed to deliever any viable RvR, then removed what was left.

[Emeda]

Are populations still healthy - I say YES

I take it your not on a PVP server or on an Australian server

Are you getting groups - I say YES,

Are PvP Wz's popping regularly - I say YES...

Well on Red Eclipse things look good, maybe not every minute of the day but its healthy and imeasurably busier than what we all saw 3 months ago. Sure I would imagine the game is still loosing players and for obvious reasons but the Question is what's more important to you - constantly looking at server stats and whinning that every blip means a serious decline without considering other factors OR getting into game and playing the game!

 

Whats more important to me is fixing the reasons that the game is still losing subs, but they wont happen when people like you just accept anything that they do in the game and dont say anything.

 

Im happy because my once dead server has been filled up again and while it still has that hole that keeps losing subs its ok because its more than what I had before. Now since the servers are getting lower again they are adding in F2P to fill up the servers again. Then you will be OK until more subs leave. Whats going to happen once the F2P has been around for 3-4 months and the servers drop down to heavy and standard? What else could they possible do to add more players?

 

The only thing I can think of is fix the game and if they fixed the game then lots of the subs wouldnt leave and the game could grow.

 

So would you use the summer excuse as to the reason the Australian servers dont go past standard now?

[TUXs]

Whats going to happen once the F2P has been around for 3-4 months and the servers drop down to heavy and standard? What else could they possible do to add more players?

 

They could pay US!!!! That'd probably work huh?!

 

I agree with you though. They've had 8 months to fix the smallest of issues and they've done nothing. We have LESS PvP content today than we did 8 months ago.

[Briq]

They could pay US!!!! That'd probably work huh?!

 

I agree with you though. They've had 8 months to fix the smallest of issues and they've done nothing. We have LESS PvP content today than we did 8 months ago.

 

I wouldn't say they've done NOTHING... they've closed plenty of threads!

[DarthTHC]

Whats going to happen once the F2P has been around for 3-4 months and the servers drop down to heavy and standard? What else could they possible do to add more players?

 

They don't need PLAYERS. They need REVENUE. There's a subtle but important difference that leads us directly to the answer: Third-party advertising in the launcher at first and eventually in the game itself.

[GalacticKegger]

And "you can have whatever appearance you like because every green item has a matching orange version."

Assumption ... Just because one hasn't seen them all doesn't mean they don't exist.

And "choices will have consequences."

They do for one's character.

And "be the hero of your personal Star Wars saga."

I feel my characters are to an extent that I find acceptable in an MMO. I'm not so caught up in my own little world that I would my characters' class stories to be completely unique to everyone else's. The HAL9000 required to run something of that magnitude doesn't exist yet.

And "walking the path between the Light Side and the Dark Side will have its own rewards."

Light side/dark side vendors for starters.

And "forget everything you think you know about MMOs, because the fans will let you know when you're wrong."

Yep. I guess throwing grenades through Bioware's storefront window and mauling their customers qualifies. Though that tends to attract police.

And "our zones are huge. Alderaan alone is bigger than four WoW zones."

Depends on the WoW zones I guess. Edited August 7, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[GalacticKegger]

They failed to deliever any viable RvR, then removed what was left.

If the game was based on that, then it would have been the catastrophe you have alluded to. But it's not so it wasn't.

[Kharnis]

Assumption ... Just because one hasn't seen them all doesn't mean they don't exist.

They don't exist. Anywhere. There's enough datamined information to let us know this.

 

They do for one's character

.

No, they don't. Nothing about the story is changed depending on your "choices."

 

I feel my characters are to an extent that I find acceptable in MMOs. I'm not so caught up in my own world so as to believe that my characters' class stories should be completely unique to everyone else's. The HAL9000 required to run something of that magnitude doesn't exist yet.

The fact that your story is exactly the same as my story is the very definition of "not personal."

 

Light side/dark side vendors for starters.

And the Grey vendors are located...?

 

Yep. I guess throwing grenades through Bioware's storefront window and mauling their customers qualifies. Though that tends to attract police.

Or (and this is a whacky thought, I know), they could listen to and act on the customers' feedback, like they claimed they supposedly do.

 

Depends on the WoW zones I guess.

If the Bioware devs have to resort to semantics and misdirection, then that is all that needs to be said for how truthful and honest they are. And if that is what the defenders of Bioware have to resort to, then that is all that needs to be said for how desperate they are.