To the Dungeon Finder nay sayers

[Regnor]

I agree with all of the comments pointing out the destructive impact of a "dungeon finder" type tool, and the lack of a need for one. I also understand those who wish to get into a dungeon as fast as possible without regard for who or what plays alongside them, and I would suggest a number of other games for them, including Guild Wars and others that provide that kind of anonymity and mechanical play.

 

THIS is not that type of game, and those who are unwilling or unable to play this style of community-based, story-driven adventure, need to accept and embrace this reality, or move on. Re-hashing the same old arguments again and again ("I'm too busy IRL to have time to meet people") is not going to change reality.

 

Next.

[ZalTaur]

Every group I got through spamming "LFG" in chat has been practically silent. I always open up with a "hi" and try to be sociable, but it's next to impossible to carry on a chat conversation when you're in combat the whole time.

 

So all the LFD naysayers, how do you build community when no one is even chatting in groups?

 

Exactly. As it stands, there is no incentive to chat in group, or to maintain relationships past the dungeon of the hour. It's like an MMO orgy, a bunch of one night stands.

 

The question is, is that good or bad. I, for one, think it's great that the game is designed in such a way that groups can instinctively progress through dungeons without a lot of chit chat. Community is great and all. But the game shouldn't force it. The onus should be on you to form community. The rest of us came to play a game. This isn't a $60 chat room.

[Yfelsung]

You know, I apologize to the couple guys I've been arguing.

 

Apparently you have had the worst experience in MMO history when playing this genre of game.

 

I'm actually quite surprised you keep playing this genre of game given the experiences you've had.

 

If I experienced the game like you have, I wouldn't be playing it.

 

I just see no point to playing an MMO anti-socially.

 

I'm sorry dudes, truly.

[Racheakt]

I feel the sinking feeling that Bioware might cave and actually put in a LFG system.

I sincerely hope I am wrong, however.

 

How WoW's system works...

1. Push button

2. Wait

3. Get group

4. Treat everyone like garbage or say nothing at all even if someone else is polite

5. Vote kick a few people

6. QQ about other players being crap

7. Take all loot

8. Repeat forever because there are no repercussions.

 

Yeah...LFG is great.

 

How it currently works........

1. Ask for group nicely

2. Wait

3. Get group

4. Introduce yourself or say hi

5. Act like a decent human being and make friends who will run things with you again.

OR

5. Act like a typical jerk in a PUG and get remembered as someone not to group with.

 

Now you see....the way it works now encourages good behavior because bad behavior has an actual negative impact.

Will there be jerks? Of course. They are unavoidable.

However...you never have to run with them ever again and others will remember their crap as well.

Community takes care of itself.

 

I prefer to keep it as it is now as opposed to Bioware condoning the crap that goes on in LFG.

 

Except that is not how it works...

 

Spamming "LFG" is no more interactive than letting a computer pair ya up, just more inefficient.

 

I want a cross server LFG for one simple reason: the damn queues

 

I played warhammer, if you were on a server with a low pop, no PvP happens, no instances happen, nobady to level with, nobody in that LFG channel. So everyone dogpiles that High Pop server for people to do instances with. Bam High Queues (until people quit playing)

 

If there were x-server instance finder and pvp, I would reroll on the lower pop servers, less contention for quest mobs and crafting resources while still being able to find a group for quests.

 

I also played WoW, i guess i did not have the same experience you all had with the DF, I had way more cooperative and friendly groups. There were Jerks ya, but then again I ran Black Talon last nite and a SW Jugg out rolled my Powertech for the BT hunter Boots, BT hunter Armor, and the Shield unit with AIM in it.

 

This fear of loosing the "community" is unfounded. IMHO the nature of leveling in this game lends to a solo nature, and as a result is going to create lots of players who do not know their class. At which point we are going to see threads wanting server xfers because there are "not good players" on the server one is on.

 

My 2 cents...

[Buur]

I agree with all of the comments pointing out the destructive impact of a "dungeon finder" type tool, and the lack of a need for one. I also understand those who wish to get into a dungeon as fast as possible without regard for who or what plays alongside them, and I would suggest a number of other games for them, including Guild Wars and others that provide that kind of anonymity and mechanical play.

 

THIS is not that type of game, and those who are unwilling or unable to play this style of community-based, story-driven adventure, need to accept and embrace this reality, or move on. Re-hashing the same old arguments again and again ("I'm too busy IRL to have time to meet people") is not going to change reality.

 

Next.

 

Uh, you do know they are going to add one right? It is inevitable.

[Grimcut]

all I want is a nice, organized way to list myself as looking for a particular flashpoint, and a way to search for others looking for the same one, along with what role they are. I'll put together the group myself, I always ask in my guild first, but some times it just doesnt happen. I just want some more tools at my disposal.

 

This^^

 

I don't want a Dungeon Finder like in WOW, cross-server and with teleport to dungeon, but I think what Basiliscus sugested would be an improvement to the existing system.

[Buur]

And by "Doing other things" you mean "standing around the bank waiting for queues to pop", because that's all people did after LFD got put in.

 

And what exactly did they do before LFD? Sat around the bank spamming /2, because they had no other choice.

[Lehanna]

In order for a LFG listing tool to really work they'd have to promote it, explain it to everyone and then ban spamming LFG in chat. I've never seen one work, since people seem to prefer the chatspam.

[Rhonen]

You must be doing it wrong, as all my random groups have been very friendly and have lead to me having some very nice people on my friend's list.

 

And chatting in combat isn't hard.

 

We're gamers, we type at what, an average of 60 wpm? (I do 67 myself)

 

And that's 60 wpm when copying something and trying to not make mistakes. When typing from your own brain we can double that, if not triple that.

 

So that's 2 to 3 words a second. Not hard to dump them in between gcds.

I don't type that fast, and type slower when I'm trying to spam my hotkeys, move, and retarget mobs during combat. I must not be the only one since, again, no one chats during combat, at least in my groups.

 

Regardless of whether it's hard or not, you can't tell me that EVERY one of your groups is just a casual, community building chat-fest. Everyone is rushing to level, the only chat I see is to spam general to get groups then it's just get business done and disband when the group is finished. How is that building community?

[ZalTaur]

For a game company to repeatedly simply lower the bar doesn't make for rewarding or interesting game play for a large portion of players.

 

Standing around spamming for an hour like a dirty panhandler hardly makes for rewarding and interesting gameplay. That's the whole point. People want to access the gameplay, not run an Occupy Coruscant simulator.

Edited December 19, 2011 by ZalTaur

[Racheakt]

And what exactly did they do before LFD? Sat around the bank spamming /2, because they had no other choice.

 

So true....

 

I used LFD in wow for what it was intended, Go on about my business while letting the tool find me a group. Once in the group I said "hi" 9 times out of 10 I got greeted back. Then again I played a tank, so i had insta-pop queues

 

Standing around spamming for an hour like a dirty panhandler hardly makes for rewarding and interesting gameplay. That's the whole point. People want to access the gameplay, not run an Occupy Coruscant simulatior.

 

Nice....

Edited December 19, 2011 by Racheakt

[Eseme]

dont focking play mmos then. dungeon finder killed wow. its part of the mmo experience to find a group and to interact BY YOURSELF.

 

not even a server only finder is needed.

 

Agreed.

[Miyaka]

Except that is not how it works...

 

Spamming "LFG" is no more interactive than letting a computer pair ya up, just more inefficient.

 

Incorrect, and here's why.

LFG pairs you up with whoever is in the queue. When you hand pick your groups you have a lot more control over who comes and who goes without cool downs.

Don't want a Bounty Hunter? No problem. You don't invite one.

Cant' stand it when people aren't modded correctly? No big deal. Don't invite them.

Don't want a jerk in your group? Make some small talk as you wait. If they don't fit what you want in a group you can simply find someone else.

 

So using /1 to find your groups gives everyone far more control over who goes and making sure the group is the right fit for you.

[Yfelsung]

And what exactly did they do before LFD? Sat around the bank spamming /2, because they had no other choice.

 

I joined guilds and had a friends list full of people.

 

I know, shocking and revolutionary. Being social in an MMO.

 

It's a new fad, might catch on.

[Lehanna]

So true....

 

I used LFD in wow for what it was intended, Go on about my business while letting the tool find me a group. Once in the group I said "hi" 9 times out of 10 I got greeted back. Then again I played a tank, so i had insta-pop queues

 

I've had plenty of random groups in WoW with the LFD that were filled with nice, funny, friendly people. I've never seen any of them ever again, but at least I never have to deal with them asking for favors. No I will not craft you fifty things without a tip because we're 'friends', ergh!

[Yfelsung]

I don't type that fast, and type slower when I'm trying to spam my hotkeys, move, and retarget mobs during combat. I must not be the only one since, again, no one chats during combat, at least in my groups.

 

Regardless of whether it's hard or not, you can't tell me that EVERY one of your groups is just a casual, community building chat-fest. Everyone is rushing to level, the only chat I see is to spam general to get groups then it's just get business done and disband when the group is finished. How is that building community?

 

Considering I refuse a group invite unless the person /say or /tells me first, yes, all my groups have been chatty.

 

Some of them have even been entirely in character.

 

I know, I know, we RPers and our crazy ability to socialize and act respectfully.

 

We so crazy.

[Vaestmannaeyjar]

PUGs aren't a problem for now, game content is ridiculously easy.

[Buur]

I joined guilds and had a friends list full of people.

 

I know, shocking and revolutionary. Being social in an MMO.

 

It's a new fad, might catch on.

 

Ya, I too had a guild and friends. And guess what, they didn't always want to do exactly what I wanted to do. I know, shocking and revolutionary.

[Eseme]

Incorrect, and here's why.

LFG pairs you up with whoever is in the queue. When you hand pick your groups you have a lot more control over who comes and who goes without cool downs.

Don't want a Bounty Hunter? No problem. You don't invite one.

Cant' stand it when people aren't modded correctly? No big deal. Don't invite them.

Don't want a jerk in your group? Make some small talk as you wait. If they don't fit what you want in a group you can simply find someone else.

 

So using /1 to find your groups gives everyone far more control over who goes and making sure the group is the right fit for you.

 

In addition, you make friends...you find the good people...and you develop relationships. Jerks will end up on ignorel lists and need to have better behavior to be sought out for groups. Building a network is part of a MMO imo, making it more fun overall. WoW destroyed it with the LFG Tool across servers, there is no accountability, no network, no need to get to know who you are playing with.

[Seuria]

And what exactly did they do before LFD? Sat around the bank spamming /2, because they had no other choice.

You know, this is an accurate description of what happened, and I've played World of Warcraft since 2006.

 

I don't see it as a particularly social aspect to spam for groups, and my experience with LFD in WoW is a means to an end. Get in, do your job, crack wise a bit to loosen the tongues of my new group mates, and then finish up.

 

Being a roleplayer and someone of the farming mindset most of my interaction happens outside of instances, and in the long run they're there for gear. I admit, I interact with more people farming whiptail in the Uldum delta then I have in m 17 levels so far in this game. If anything kills this game for me it'll be that.

 

I have trouble discerning how anyone defines choreographed, instanced off content of a few people as "massive" and "social."

[Yfelsung]

Ya, I too had a guild and friends. And guess what, they didn't always want to do exactly what I wanted to do. I know, shocking and revolutionary.

 

Sound like ****** friends.

 

Mine will even run a flashpoint with me multiple times to get a specific gear drop, even if they've outleveled the place and have no reason to be there.

 

I believe we may have differing definitions of the word "friend".

[Asquinol]

I have not had any problems finding a group when I didn't have guildies on. The groups I did find were found fast and some of those people are now on my friends list. Not everyone has been "chatty" but no one has been a pr*ck yet either.

 

This is on the Ebon Hawk server. Bunch of great people there. Maybe because it is an RP server.

[Xerda]

In addition, you make friends...you find the good people...and you develop relationships. Jerks will end up on ignorel lists and need to have better behavior to be sought out for groups. Building a network is part of a MMO imo, making it more fun overall. WoW destroyed it with the LFG Tool across servers, there is no accountability, no network, no need to get to know who you are playing with.

 

I disagree. in WoW I hardly ever got to do dungeons until LFD came out. It was the best thing they ever did with the exception of it being cross server.

[Yfelsung]

I have not had any problems finding a group when I didn't have guildies on. The groups I did find were found fast and some of those people are now on my friends list. Not everyone has been "chatty" but no one has been a pr*ck yet either.

 

This is on the Ebon Hawk server. Bunch of great people there. Maybe because it is an RP server.

 

I think this may be the factor.

 

Apparently non-RP servers are hives of scum and villainy going by these guy's experiences.

[Lehanna]

Sound like ****** friends.

 

Mine will even run a flashpoint with me multiple times to get a specific gear drop, even if they've outleveled the place and have no reason to be there.

 

I believe we may have differing definitions of the word "friend".

 

Sounds more like people who don't know when they're being used.