Soluss Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 again they drop and you can BUY them in the store with out spending a single DIME. You can do quests to get turbine points which are used to buy said tomes. I can earn enough in less then 1 day to get all 4 tiers of 1 tome Really? Monster play is PVP? How do you figure? The Monsters can't go out and get legendary weapons like the heros can. But the non monster players can? Or are they locked from use? I dunno... you just said there is no pvp ... i said there is. If you could buy levels in the cash shop... would you consider it P2W? I mean you can level for free but hey... remove the grind by buying the levels... see what you fail to realize is there is a fine line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 It does seem he has a very narrow definition on what Pay to Win items actually are. It's hard to change someone's mind about such things when they refuse to look at a bigger picture. dude again you can purchase everything in the game with out spending a dime. Do you understand that? It doesn't take long to get them to begin with. In fact it's really stupid to pay actual money for anything in it. It's like Diablo 3's real market AH. Yes you can buy the best weapons in the game with real money. But you can buy the same weapons using in game gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xippo Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 (edited) yeah like I said EVERY ITEM YOU CAN BUY WITH OUT SPENDING A DIME. It's no different then grinding Rep to buy items . Black Holes commendations ring a bell? Persistent through death buffs you can get without buying? Rez shrines you can get without buying? A stat tome that increase all stats you can get without buying? All the stuff I mentioned is the kind of stuff you can get without buying and or common? NO! Now run along because your misinformation and sycophant routine is only serving to make you look like a rube. Least of not to mention the Veteran status you can buy right out of the box and the automatic leveling purchases from the shop. You can essentially skip half the damn leveling process with 1 purchase. Please don't sit here repeating your drivel and try to pass it off as intelligent discourse. Edited August 4, 2012 by xippo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 But the non monster players can? Or are they locked from use? I dunno... you just said there is no pvp ... i said there is. If you could buy levels in the cash shop... would you consider it P2W? I mean you can level for free but hey... remove the grind by buying the levels... see what you fail to realize is there is a fine line. yes the non monster players can. Imagine this SWTOR PVP but you could choose to play a Level 50 elite Gundark. However you can't add any weapons and you have set skills while the other side can upgrade all their stats and so fourth. The point is it's not exactly PVP since right off the start its 100% unbalanced and it doesn't try to be balacened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 dude again you can purchase everything in the game with out spending a dime. Do you understand that? It doesn't take long to get them to begin with. In fact it's really stupid to pay actual money for anything in it. It's like Diablo 3's real market AH. Yes you can buy the best weapons in the game with real money. But you can buy the same weapons using in game gold. Then why do people spend money? Oh thats right... they dont have time to grind for stuff. You spend more time in these forums then some of the P2W people play a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 (edited) Persistent through death buffs you can get without buying? Rez shrines you can get without buying? A stat tome that increase all stats you can get without buying? All the stuff I mentioned is the kind of stuff you can get without buying and or common? NO! Now run along because your misinformation and sycophant routine is only serving to make you look like a rube. Yes you can buy EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE with Turbine Points. You say you played for 6 years how do you not know this? right now a stat tome costs 355 Turbine Points. Wait are you saying you can't buy the Stat Tome from the Turbine store with out spending money? Edited August 4, 2012 by jarjarloves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Then why do people spend money? Oh thats right... they dont have time to grind for stuff. You spend more time in these forums then some of the P2W people play a game. Actually i'm playing and on the forum. People spend money because they are stupid. Claiming the stat tomes or the res shrines are a huge game breaking bug is just stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xippo Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Actually i'm playing and on the forum. People spend money because they are stupid. Claiming the stat tomes or the res shrines are a huge game breaking bug is just stupid. No one said it was a bug, the companies put things like that in the store on purpose. Just like Turbine added things like Vet status into the cash shop so people right out of the box could spend the 1499 on turbine points to buy it and skip the first 1/4 of the game. But you refuse to understand things like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 No one said it was a bug, the companies put things like that in the store on purpose. Just like Turbine added things like Vet status into the cash shop so people right out of the box could spend the 1499 on turbine points to buy it and skip the first 1/4 of the game. But you refuse to understand things like that. pssst or you could use TURBINE POINTS and get it FOR FREE You do realize you get TURBINE POINTS WITH OUT SPENDING MONEY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 I noticed that you ignored this question..... If you could buy levels in the cash shop... would you consider it P2W? I mean you can level for free but hey... remove the grind by buying the levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xippo Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 and you understand that you get TURBINE POINTS WITH OUT SPENDING MONEY RIGHT?? The fact that you can earn turbine points isn't the issue. It is the fact that you can buy the Turbine points from the moment you step into Ebberon and buy your way into items and statuses that are inherently difficult to obtain or otherwise impossible to obtain without going through the cash shop. THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF PAY 2 WIN. Why is that so hard for you to understand? You are trying to defend an indefensible position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xippo Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 I noticed that you ignored this question..... If you could buy levels in the cash shop... would you consider it P2W? I mean you can level for free but hey... remove the grind by buying the levels. Its because he knows he is trying to defend and indefensible position and if he answers it it would destroy that house of cards he has so carefully tried to construct. He is a hack and nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 (edited) I noticed that you ignored this question..... If you could buy levels in the cash shop... would you consider it P2W? I mean you can level for free but hey... remove the grind by buying the levels. it would be stupid but not pay 2 win. It's no different then Blizzard giving people free level 85s or free levels for Refer a freind. Age of Conan gave you 10 free levels for every month you stayed subbed. How is giving a level pay 2 win? Now if it was for the best gear in the game and you could only get it by paying cash? Yes that is Pay 2 Win. Because there is ONLY 1 Way to WIN Edited August 4, 2012 by jarjarloves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathias_Varr Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 JarJar, because you are such an expert in the ways of Turbine points, please, tell me the most efficient way to get 8000 Turbine Points so that I may purchase the next LotRO Expansion for free? Tell me how that will take. Are you willing to do that grind? Or would you just tell me that you would purchase that expansion instead of grinding it for free? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xippo Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 it would be stupid but not pay 2 win. It's no different then Blizzard giving people free level 85s or free levels for Refer a freind. Age of Conan gave you 10 free levels for every month you stayed subbed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 The fact that you can earn turbine points isn't the issue. It is the fact that you can buy the Turbine points from the moment you step into Ebberon and buy your way into items and statuses that are inherently difficult to obtain or otherwise impossible to obtain without going through the cash shop. THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF PAY 2 WIN. Why is that so hard for you to understand? You are trying to defend an indefensible position. No that is NOT the definition of Pay 2 Win Pay 2 Win is when the ONLY way to Win is by spending cash. By buying items that are only available by spending money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 JarJar, because you are such an expert in the ways of Turbine points, please, tell me the most efficient way to get 8000 Turbine Points so that I may purchase the next LotRO Expansion for free? Tell me how that will take. Are you willing to do that grind? Or would you just tell me that you would purchase that expansion instead of grinding it for free? play the game? Just by leveling a new guy you can easily have double that by the time you get to end game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 (edited) how did I change the subject? I gave examples of other games that do the same thing and its not game breaking or Pay 2 Win. I mean seriously buying levels is Pay 2 Win? Show me someone who buys levels and I'll show you someone who doesn't know how to play his class and always gets his butt kicked in PVP and PVE now if you would excuse me I'm heading out for a run Edited August 4, 2012 by jarjarloves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 it would be stupid but not pay 2 win. It's no different then Blizzard giving people free level 85s or free levels for Refer a freind. Age of Conan gave you 10 free levels for every month you stayed subbed. How is giving a level pay 2 win? Now if it was for the best gear in the game and you could only get it by paying cash? Yes that is Pay 2 Win. Because there is ONLY 1 Way to WIN Pay 2 win is anything that gives you an advantage by paying and not playing. Sorry but if I bought 50 levels, I won the game and didnt play it... i paid it. If there is a rare weapon in game that drops 1 in 1000 times and I said screw that and bought it... thats still pay to win. Sorry but your defintion of P2W is not the same as everyone else. I would suggest you change your definition or dont bother posting in the discussion. You cant argue intelligently, about something, if your definitions are not the same as everyone else's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 NO Pay 2 Win is when you can buy things at the store ONLY WITH MONEY that give you a real edge over others. Stat tomes don't do much there are only 4 teirs of them. No, it's pretty much when you can buy anything that gives you an advantage over that someone that doesn't buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 how did I change the subject? I gave examples of other games that do the same thing and its not game breaking or Pay 2 Win. I mean seriously buying levels is Pay 2 Win? Show me someone who buys levels and I'll show you someone who doesn't know how to play his class and always gets his butt kicked in PVP and PVE now if you would excuse me I'm heading out for a run In eq 1, I knew people that bought characters to raid with. They did so because they didnt want to take a year to grind the character and outfit it in raid gear. They were skilled players and learned the class just fine. It doesnt take much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathias_Varr Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 I'm trying to make a point. I don't play LotRO anymore and you seem to have no idea how long the leveling process in that game is and how much of a grind it is to gain those Turbine points at all. Making that many points without paying any money would take a ridiculously long time. The point is that people are lazy. If given an easy way to the top, they will take it. Most people are unwilling to work to get something when they can pay and have it RIGHT NOW. And getting back to the original discussion with you, any item that give one player and advantage over the other, no matter how small, that can be bought much easier than earned, is Pay to Win. I do not think I can make that definition any more precise for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 No, it's pretty much when you can buy anything that gives you an advantage over that someone that doesn't buy it. This ^^^^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 (edited) No that is NOT the definition of Pay 2 Win Pay 2 Win is when the ONLY way to Win is by spending cash. By buying items that are only available by spending money. No that is AN example of P2W, it is not however THE defination of P2W. THE defination of P2W would be something like; being able to buy anything that gives you an advantage over someone that didn't buy it (all other things being equal). Edited August 4, 2012 by Goretzu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xippo Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 how did I change the subject? I gave examples of other games that do the same thing and its not game breaking or Pay 2 Win. I mean seriously buying levels is Pay 2 Win? Show me someone who buys levels and I'll show you someone who doesn't know how to play his class and always gets his butt kicked in PVP and PVE now if you would excuse me I'm heading out for a run Instead of staying on topic about that game you run off about other games. You either absolutely can not be honest in a discussion or you are incapable of being honest. Either way, I'm done answering you because I come here to get away from kids like you not babysit more of them. And YES buying levels is pay to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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