Advance Class Respec

[Fermian]

They should just have created 4 classes with 6 trees instead of the AC. Would give the classes a lot more depth. Its really not that hard to add the advanced class modifiers to your talent tree.

 

If you are going to copy your talent system from other games make sure you copy the best. In this case the talent system of Rift is much better for this game then the WoW style system ToR uses now.

[warultima]

They should just have created 4 classes with 6 trees instead of the AC. Would give the classes a lot more depth. Its really not that hard to add the advanced class modifiers to your talent tree.

 

If you are going to copy your talent system from other games make sure you copy the best. In this case the talent system of Rift is much better for this game then the WoW style system ToR uses now.

 

Rift is getting 1 more talent tree per class in their 1st expansion. I believe its 8 talent trees per Class that you respec anytime you want out of combat and everyone can have sextuple-spec thats preset with all your hotbars auto switch as you change your spec.

 

Rift is too much of a game for SWTOR to catch up, as its light years ahead of SWTOR in its refinement (the overall design in its entirety). But see the reason SWTOR ended up like this coz SWTOR modeled itself to mirror WoW in 2004 to 2005 as their benchmark resulting a really bad product.

 

Rift's system might be too "complicated" to the average swtor players however. And the game is ultra competitive when it comes to raiding...

Edited August 9, 2012 by warultima

[Apocalypsezero]

LOL, I absolutely love how the word "LAZY" is like the new ultimate burn here on the forums.

 

NEWS FLASH: We are all sitting on our big fat butts playing a video game LOL. I mean ***really****

 

Playing the same story over and over again accomplishes nothing. Killing the same 10 people over and over again on 4 maps (4 maps lol) for days on end accomplishes nothing. It's a game. If you think you are accomplishing anything beyond entertaining yourself then I pity you.

 

Not using "LAZY" as a burn. Part of a game is also the challenge, even if the challenge to overcome, is repetition. And part of the entertainment is the sense of accomplishment of conquering those challenges. But if you just want to "push" a button so you can have a new class at level 50, that is being lazy.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Apocalypsezero

[CorellianWannabe]

Not using "LAZY" as a burn. Part of a game is also the challenge, even if the challenge to overcome, is repetition. And part of the entertainment is the sense of accomplishment of conquering those challenges. But if you just want to "push" a button so you can have a new class at level 50, that is being lazy.

 

 

 

So if it took clicking the mouse 5000 times to level, there would be a challenge, if only to avoid carpal tunnel and the need for a new mouse?

 

So if healing is challenging and you leveled as a dps sage but want to heal you should create a new character to avoid being lazy, right? It's a shortcut to level the 'easy' way then respec when you get to 50.

[Karudan]

Advanced classes, apart from a few shared skills, its entirely different from each other in terms of feel and performance. Hence it won't be a good idea to allow for a re-spec once you have chosen.

 

My only suggestion is that they in-corporate small videos of key skills to show the animations to expand the inspect feature. I'm probably one of the few who will re-roll if the animations does not fit with class (entirely subjective)

[Burtlebe]

I can level DPS and then go try to heal a WZ or Op once respeccing. I'd also need new gear. What is the difference?

 

The difference is that for most people, there are exceptions of course, hitting 50 and switching specs there is going to be a learning curve and for the most part you will not be anywhere near as good as someone who leveled up playing the spec.

[Chikun]

BioWare claimed to want to have permenance in your decisions. In the far future that might change as their motivations become corrupted with greed but for now I don't see it happening.

[mdob]

The difference is that for most people, there are exceptions of course, hitting 50 and switching specs there is going to be a learning curve and for the most part you will not be anywhere near as good as someone who leveled up playing the spec.

 

But respecing is in the game today and is no different than switching ACs.

 

It's a learning curve whether you respec into your AC or out of your AC.

[CorellianWannabe]

BioWare claimed to want to have permenance in your decisions. In the far future that might change as their motivations become corrupted with greed but for now I don't see it happening.

 

That's why you can still kill companions, right? And why you can press Esc to avoid unwanted reactions in conversations?

[ripster]

The difference is that for most people, there are exceptions of course, hitting 50 and switching specs there is going to be a learning curve and for the most part you will not be anywhere near as good as someone who leveled up playing the spec.

Right, but what is the difference from leveling as a DPS because it is easier but switching to a Heal spec at 50 and leveling one AC because it is easier and then switching to another AC at 50. My point is that you already have people using leveling specs and then switching to their level 50 spec/role with no experience in it.

[juanni]

Rift is getting 1 more talent tree per class in their 1st expansion. I believe its 8 talent trees per Class that you respec anytime you want out of combat and everyone can have sextuple-spec thats preset with all your hotbars auto switch as you change your spec.

 

Rift is too much of a game for SWTOR to catch up, as its light years ahead of SWTOR in its refinement (the overall design in its entirety). But see the reason SWTOR ended up like this coz SWTOR modeled itself to mirror WoW in 2004 to 2005 as their benchmark resulting a really bad product.

 

Rift's system might be too "complicated" to the average swtor players however. And the game is ultra competitive when it comes to raiding...

 

While Rift's talent trees are an interesting design, the actual gameplay is extremely dull. Spamming one or two buttons (as you've macro'ed the majority of your abilities to those) was not a fun experience for me, YMMV.

 

As for "complicated", yeah copy & pasting macros is tough, yo!

[Anzel]

I did not realize that you knew more than the developers who say they are different classes. I bow to your superior wisdom.

 

Call it what you want, justify it however you want, what you are asking for is a way to play a different class without putting the effort into leveling it, despite how incredibly easy and quick leveling is in this game.

 

You want to spend real life money to change AC's. How much would you be willing to pay? Someone suggested $50 and a 6-12 month cooldown. That would be enough to make people think twice about switching AC's so they didn't just do it on a whim or because the AC they chose got nerfed. Would that be acceptable to you, or are you, like another poster, want to see it at $4.99, max of $9.99. I'm sorry but for AC switching to be that inexpensive would be trivializing the choice of an AC, IMO.

 

LOL, I don't presume to know more than the devs about this game. Good one though. I do however completely disagree with them and anyone else who is trying to kid themselves. Early on we all believed them because none of us had the opportunity to actually play the game. We had no choice but to accept this concept of AC's being completely different classes.

 

However, over the past year (I started beta 8/28/2011) we've learned otherwise. There's no major shift in your characters story. The companions are the same. Your ship is the same. etc. etc. etc. There is in fact an extremely small list of differences between respec'ing within your AC and respec'ing between AC's. You see? The choice of AC IS TRIVIAL.

 

How much would I spend? Well as a subscriber I should have to pay nothing. Nothing to respec within my AC. Nothing to respec between ACs. They are my characters. I paid for them. Not you. Not BioWare. Not EA. They are my characters. Mine. I can delete all eight of them and create eight new ones if I feel like. I can spend 10 hours a day dancing in a cantina if I feel like. It should be nobody's business what I'm doing in the game.

 

Limiting respecs is an arbitrary concept brought on by a small contingent scared little trolls who are worried they won't be uber enough in the 4 maps... oh I'm sorry... WARZONES if something should change and upset their tiny little ecosystem.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Anzel

[MediumD]

Advanced classes, apart from a few shared skills, its entirely different from each other in terms of feel and performance. Hence it won't be a good idea to allow for a re-spec once you have chosen.

 

So the guy in your group changed ACs from guardian to sentinel. So what? He'd probably play just fine after a little experimentation--it's not like you need 50 levels to learn your advanced class. And if he's a bad player, he'll be indistinguishable from Bad Player #1 and Bad Player #9 who are also in your group.

[Deewe]

Main reason they don't want people to switch AC is they don't know how to balance classes.

 

Meaning with AC respec now there would be quite none Commandos or Mercs in game at all.

[pocketthesaurus]

um, but (for example) a sorc and an assassin have the same class quests ... you just approach the quests with different strategies.

The "class" is only a STORYLINE. The AC is the *actual* class in this game.

 

What is a sage? It's a freakin priest from WoW. What is a gunslinger? Basically a hunter. A scoundrel? Oh, that's a rogue. Each AC is its own class, the storyline only exists for the template.

[CorellianWannabe]

The "class" is only a STORYLINE. The AC is the *actual* class in this game.

 

What is a sage? It's a freakin priest from WoW. What is a gunslinger? Basically a hunter. A scoundrel? Oh, that's a rogue. Each AC is its own class, the storyline only exists for the template.

 

What is a consular? What is a smuggler? Templates? Is that your new word for classes?

[ripster]

The "class" is only a STORYLINE. The AC is the *actual* class in this game.

 

What is a sage? It's a freakin priest from WoW. What is a gunslinger? Basically a hunter. A scoundrel? Oh, that's a rogue. Each AC is its own class, the storyline only exists for the template.

Rogues heal? Who cares about semantics, games let you change much more about your character then what people are looking for in AC respec and are not any worse off for it. "Class" changing isn't some sacred cow, it was a limitation of technology and then a reason to keep people grinding. Neither of those should be excuses in this generation of MMOs.

[mdob]

Rogues heal?

 

Best comment yet.

[Burtlebe]

Right, but what is the difference from leveling as a DPS because it is easier but switching to a Heal spec at 50 and leveling one AC because it is easier and then switching to another AC at 50. My point is that you already have people using leveling specs and then switching to their level 50 spec/role with no experience in it.

 

Yep they do and it shows. I am not against respecs of AC, I am just being my usual devil advocate self and pointing out issues. Right now if a scoundrel leveled as dps and switches to heals at 50, with some exceptions its painful running LFG HM FPs with them. I do know folks in my guild who leveled up an ac and experimented with each spec and when they hit 50 they were good at them all cause they had tried and understood them. I will leave now, I just was trying to inject a few things I saw that could be problems to help with the conversation.

[Fermian]

Advanced classes, apart from a few shared skills, its entirely different from each other in terms of feel and performance. Hence it won't be a good idea to allow for a re-spec once you have chosen.

 

My only suggestion is that they in-corporate small videos of key skills to show the animations to expand the inspect feature. I'm probably one of the few who will re-roll if the animations does not fit with class (entirely subjective)

 

While the gameplay is different, for most its just a difference in passive buff and skills. One class sould be able to offer that difference. And tbh the amount of options in one class is a bit low atm.

[Fermian]

While Rift's talent trees are an interesting design, the actual gameplay is extremely dull. Spamming one or two buttons (as you've macro'ed the majority of your abilities to those) was not a fun experience for me, YMMV.

 

As for "complicated", yeah copy & pasting macros is tough, yo!

 

Agee, but by copying the talent system you wont effect the combat system in any way. Don't think that talent system is complicated tbh, you just have more options.

[Ratajack]

It's a specialization-aka a spec. Calling it a class doesn't make it so.

 

So you're against respecs too-since going from heals to dps or tanking to dps (or one branch of dps instead of another) fits your doctor analogy just as well. Or is it somehow different to go from being able to tank to suddenly pumping out dps compared to going from healing to being able to tank?

 

You're right-you wouldn't have to choose. Funny enough GPs that don't choose an advanced specialty are not magically less effective doctors, and if I did need a cardiologist I don't want one that trained as a proctologist than switched (aka respec).

 

It's not just me calling it classes, or even me along with multitudes of others, it's also BW. You know, the company that developed the game. I think their words might carry a bit more weight than mine, but that presumes people are actually willing to listen. Obviously the "entitled, GIMME THE RESPEC" people are not.

 

 

So, you're ok with a tank who switched was heals 5 minutes before trying to tank that hard mode FP, but not ok with a doctor who switched specializations? Also, if I needed a cardiologist, I would want one that actually trained as one, not just a GP who thinks he's not "magically less effective".

[Ratajack]

WZ will be so nice and colorful when all the Commandos and Mercs respec Assault VG and Pyrotech Powertech.

Especially when Eliminators set (the Commando/Merc DPS set) is pretty much BiS for Assault VG and Pyrotech PT.

 

This is EXACTLY what it boils down to for some people. The AC that they chose is no longer god mode and has been nerfed, so now they insist that BW allow them to play the more OP AC without leveling it.

[Ratajack]

Main reason they don't want people to switch AC is they don't know how to balance classes.

 

Meaning with AC respec now there would be quite none Commandos or Mercs in game at all.

 

Class balance will always be an issue with any game.

 

What happens if those mercenaries who want to switch to the OP powertech get to do so, but then they nerf powertech also? Will they come to the forums asking for or demanding that they be allowed to switch classes to be marauders? After all, BW will have already opened that can of worms by letting them change class from mercenary to powertech. At that point those same people that are now arguing that AC's are NOT classes will be arguing that they are different classes, even according to BW.

[Kourage]

Merc and powertech are seperate classes.. You are not switching within classes, you are switching classes..

 

Sorry.. Bioware has already ruled on this issue many times.. As far back as the beta even..

 

There will be no AC switching...

 

The reasons against this are countless and this issue has been discussed countless times..

They have the exact same class story. Playing both requires you to repeat the exact same class story and prevents you from having 1 of each class on the server for the bonus. In fact, there is no legacy bonus for having 2 advanced specs of the same class. There is no separate story for a Powertech and a Mercenary. They are in fact the same class.

 

Furthermore, SWG allowed you to completely change your class/profession. It really doesn't hurt anything at all to allow an advance class change.