I don't see why people hate this game

[Soluss]

we know EA wanted 500k. Of course with out EA this wouldn't have gotten released early

 

Please. If EA says that 500k is a profit but nothing to write home about, Im sure just about any succesful company would say the same thing.

 

If the game didnt get released early then it might have been better off.... of course if it were not for EA, as much as people hate them, it might have not gotten released at all.. or even much sooner with less then what we have. When funding runs out for a game you got 2 choices. 1. release with what you have and get some return or 2. scrap the project .

[Styxx]

anyway, back on track...

 

So, ya, people were entitled to have high hopes and expectations for this game, if anything, only from the scope and magnitude of the work that was put into it.

 

The finished product is, however... going F2P in less than a year. At this point it should be clear that the answer is "because it failed to deliver". Testimony to this is the whole Forum and the complaints about everything... oh... and the loss of about 1 mil subs in 7 months.. less than 50% retention.

[jarjarloves]

http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Most_expensive_video_games - GTA 4 for 100 mils

http://digitalbattle.com/2010/02/20/top-10-most-expensive-video-game-budgets-ever/

 

Confirmation of the 100 mils figure:

http://www.shacknews.com/article/52464/gta-4s-production-budget-estimated

http://exophase.com/4677/gta-iv-development-costs-totaled-100-million-outnumbers-shenmue/

 

http://digitalbattle.com/2006/06/15/world-of-warcraft-cost-63-million/ - Vivendi claimed that it cost them 63 million to develop it originally.

http://news.gamewinners.com/index.php/news/5432/ - this claims it costed 100 millions.

 

So, 100 millions for a single player game, or for WOW ORIGINALLY. 150 is perfectly probable / plausible for a game that was REALLY better than WOW at launch.

 

Here... one number comes from the President of Rockstar and another from Vivendi. Will you come and say they are lying too, now?

 

I never said it cost less then 100 million.

 

Whats your point?

[Styxx]

I never said it cost less then 100 million.

 

Whats your point?

 

My point is that it most likely costed 150-200 mils, which is well in line with the guesses that fly around and I was quoting.

[jarjarloves]

My point is that it most likely costed 150-200 mils, which is well in line with the guesses that fly around and I was quoting.

 

150 sounds right 200 stretching it. Unless you include everything like marketing

[Styxx]

150 sounds right 200 stretching it. Unless you include everything like marketing

http://digitalbattle.com/2010/02/20/top-10-most-expensive-video-game-budgets-ever/

Quote from GTA 4 : "There’s enough content in the game to keep the average gamer immersed for at least 100 hours" - this for 100 mils.

 

While http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-06-29-ea-200-hours-of-play-per-swtor-class says 200 hours per class. We have 8 classes.

 

200 mils is plausible for a game that claims to have double the playtime only for 1/8th of its content. In fact, it is the number that fits the best. Which is dead on that source.

 

EVEN an 150 mils is "insanity" to admit defeat within a year, after such bullish claims : "We're going right at it. We want share, we want leadership position here," affirmed Riccitiello. "I'm not expecting to sort of knock them over, but ... we're gonna get a big chunk of [their market]." ... they really should stop bleeding on Blizzard`s floor.

[agamemnon-]

U do realize you can make a new toon!

 

Why is that always the ralying cry for some around here? Yes, I realize that some may find having to do the SAME EXACT world quest 7 times in order to level, but judging by the bleeding of subs, many people were expecting something a bit for substantial then that.

[Catsmeat]

Why is that always the ralying cry for some around here? Yes, I realize that some may find having to do the SAME EXACT world quest 7 times in order to level, but judging by the bleeding of subs, many people were expecting something a bit for substantial then that.

 

Yup, I think you get.

 

It needs more content on the way up to 50 so it doesn't require the same material over and over. It needs more Breadth.

 

In closed beta when I first started testing all the stats mattered as well, then they changed to a single stat per class. Once they did that it was all about gear with very little differentiation between characters within an AC. That singular bit of dumbing it down really took a ton of my fun out of leveling a character. In its present form leveling is a brainless activity.

[agamemnon-]

Yup, I think you get.

 

It needs more content on the way up to 50 so it doesn't require the same material over and over. It needs more Breadth.

 

In closed beta when I first started testing all the stats mattered as well, then they changed to a single stat per class. Once they did that it was all about gear with very little differentiation between characters within an AC. That singular bit of dumbing it down really took a ton of my fun out of leveling a character. In its present form leveling is a brainless activity.

 

You peaked my interest good sir. I'm wondering if you could elaborate on the stat change from beta you mentioned.

[Catsmeat]

You peaked my interest good sir. I'm wondering if you could elaborate on the stat change from beta you mentioned.

 

Lets say you were leveling a Vanguard you needed to level both cunning for tech powers and aim for your weapon, how you balanced them was up to you as a player. Now only aim stat gives a benefit to vanguards and it is beneficial across both weapon and tech skills. All vanguards now only need increase their AIM stat whereas before you had to choose a balanced build of aim and cunning or to go heavy in tech skills or weapon skills.

 

Lets say I loved gutstrike as a skill. I could increase my strength to boost my melee abilities and thus that skill.

 

It made you think how to build a character and characters even of the same AC had much greater differentiation in ability. Gear wise Vanguards could benefit from increases in Strength, Aim, and Cunning and it effected performance accordingly.

 

The game basically went from requiring thought about total build to one of simple AC skill tree choice and gearing. It is really dumbed down from how it once was.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Catsmeat

[Soluss]

Yup, I think you get.

 

It needs more content on the way up to 50 so it doesn't require the same material over and over. It needs more Breadth.

 

In closed beta when I first started testing all the stats mattered as well, then they changed to a single stat per class. Once they did that it was all about gear with very little differentiation between characters within an AC. That singular bit of dumbing it down really took a ton of my fun out of leveling a character. In its present form leveling is a brainless activity.

 

Unfortunately, they dumbed down alot of stuff from beta. Stats were dumbed down. The mod system was dumbed down. Skills were dumbed down. Content was dumbed down. Meaningful choices were cut out. I mean, they were not lying when they said your choices would have meaning and an impact... they just took them all out before launch.

[xEminencex]

if you have more than 2-3 lvl 50 accounts..

You need to follow these simple steps

1. Play 1 hour a night instead of 11
   
2. get a job
   
3. attend school for a change
   
4. find a girl to spend time with. your pc doesnt count
   
5. if you do have a girl, you wont for long.. move along right now
   

seriously. I started when it was released in Australia and still havent hit lvl 50 yet.. I take 1-2 weeks off at a time because i cbf.. but thats life.. stop playing so much on this game and ul enjoy it

[Soluss]

if you have more than 2-3 lvl 50 accounts..

You need to follow these simple steps

1. Play 1 hour a night instead of 11
   
2. get a job
   
3. attend school for a change
   
4. find a girl to spend time with. your pc doesnt count
   
5. if you do have a girl, you wont for long.. move along right now
   

seriously. I started when it was released in Australia and still havent hit lvl 50 yet.. I take 1-2 weeks off at a time because i cbf.. but thats life.. stop playing so much on this game and ul enjoy it

 

If you feel the need to write this type of post then follow these steps

 

1. Step away from the computer

2. Realize that you know nothing about anyone else playing this game

3. Realize that you shouldnt tell people how to live their lives

4. Worry about yourself, not someone on the internet

 

Dont know who you think you are but you dont have a right to stereotype and judge others.... especially when you dont know a damn thing about them

Edited August 4, 2012 by Soluss

[Briq]

if you have more than 2-3 lvl 50 accounts..

You need to follow these simple steps

1. Play 1 hour a night instead of 11
   
2. get a job
   
3. attend school for a change
   
4. find a girl to spend time with. your pc doesnt count
   
5. if you do have a girl, you wont for long.. move along right now
   

seriously. I started when it was released in Australia and still havent hit lvl 50 yet.. I take 1-2 weeks off at a time because i cbf.. but thats life.. stop playing so much on this game and ul enjoy it

 

worst solution to a bad game ever

[Catsmeat]

if you have more than 2-3 lvl 50 accounts..

You need to follow these simple steps

1. Play 1 hour a night instead of 11
   
2. get a job
   
3. attend school for a change
   
4. find a girl to spend time with. your pc doesnt count
   
5. if you do have a girl, you wont for long.. move along right now
   

seriously. I started when it was released in Australia and still havent hit lvl 50 yet.. I take 1-2 weeks off at a time because i cbf.. but thats life.. stop playing so much on this game and ul enjoy it

 

I have a job (but not for much longer )

I have a BA and multiple professional credentials

I have a wife

 

I am a 49 year old man who will soon be retiring. I have been convalescing from a wound incurred while working in Iraq many months back and your assumptions about players who play more hours than you is boorish.

[Blattan]

Unfortunately, they dumbed down alot of stuff from beta. Stats were dumbed down. The mod system was dumbed down. Skills were dumbed down. Content was dumbed down. Meaningful choices were cut out. I mean, they were not lying when they said your choices would have meaning and an impact... they just took them all out before launch.

 

Ouch. I'm not sure which I like less. The (false) idea that they didn't deliver on meaningful choices, or that they were just removed before I got to try them...

[Arnokar]

Companions, packs with multiple mobs of differing strength, huttball, class quests, class design (the only MMO I've played so far where playing as a melee class is fun), no auto attack, heat/ammo/energy resource system (one of the biggest innovations imo, which is how I think healing was meant to be, where short-term decisions have an impact on your resource management. In every other MMO healing is pretty much just a huge mana pool where you don't worry about it until it runs out). They did some of this stuff so well that soloing in any other game by comparison is a snorefest especially if you're controlling only one character, or *gasp* levelling as a spec other than DPS.

 

There IS some innovation. And the innovative parts are the best part of the game in my opinion. But trying to please the crowd that wants everything to be like WoW (instant and forgettable grouping, gear grinds, catering to content locusts) is not a very sustainable goal and they'd be better off expanding on the parts that were innovative and successful. Because you can't out-WoW WoW.

 

 

Reported...for making sense!

 

Very well said and QFT.

[Skirata_Kal]

I have a job (but not for much longer )

I have a BA and multiple professional credentials

I have a wife

 

I am a 49 year old man who will soon be retiring. I have been convalescing from a wound incurred while working in Iraq many months back and your assumptions about players who play more hours than you is boorish.

 

Well said! I myself have a wife (though she plays too), advanced degrees, a good job, volunteer work and still have 2 50's and a number of 40's. And thank you for your service btw!

[Blattan]

Unfortunately, this is completely subjective.

 

So is an opinion. It's incredibly and completely subjective.

 

I missed your point? Can I talk you into going into more depth?

[ShaneW]

I don't hate the game, overall I like it, but it's not quite what I was hoping it would be. It's good, and I think it has many clever and interesting innovations, but just as many that are being done in every MMO. So I have no difficulty understanding the difficulties it's being faced with. That being said I don't yet have any plans to cancel my subscription or downgrade to a free to play account.

 

When they asked for player feedback during the beta, I told them they need to take this seriously. They need to respond to bugs and key player issues quickly.

 

They waited, far too long, to deal with dead servers and server transfers in general. Their should have been paid character transfers the moment any transfer system was implemented. This in my opinion is their most critical mistake.

 

The group finder should have had a higher priority and been in much earlier than it was.

 

They are slow to properly balance classes.

 

Things are commonly broken by patches.

 

I sincerely regret maining a Juggernaut tank. The class feels incomplete, tedious, and not able to effectively (and in fun ways) to deal with much more than standing and taking it in the face. I hear much the same from other Juggernauts and Jedi Guardians. That shouldn't happen.

 

Very questionable time vs. difficulty vs. reward traits to gear progression and gear availability in flashpoints and operations. Playing casually I *easily* got full Tionese gear. Then, even more quickly and easily I upgraded it with full Columi gear, which proved a fairly minor upgrade as a whole. It's basically stalled out since then. Far more than combining both previous stages together and multiplying them several times over. It feels like I'm seeing mostly the same stuff no matter what flashpoint or raid I'm doing. It seems I'm now only upgrading main stat/stamina as better gear simply dumps previous bonuses for others.

 

I know the graphics issue annoyed many players, while it seems fixed now, they took it as BioWare deciding as what their systems could handle for them by having the ability to have higher quality graphics but not letting us select them.

 

Most people love character customization. It feels so accessible and interesting until you hit level 50. Now extracting mods is so phenomenally overpriced people get stuck wearing things they dislike. They also now have far less incentive to gear hunt for their companions for the same reason. If the items and by extension the mods are bound to your character there is no reason, whatsoever, for the ridiculous price. This functions only to hurt player freedom and reduce time spent playing the game. Fail for us, fail for them.

 

 

The game changes drastically from leveling to being level capped. The game revolves around your companions until you hit 50 and then you can't hardly ever use them. It seems common sense to me to have made another type of flashpoint that you did with companions AND other players and their companions. The single player/story feel of the game abruptly disappears. The way you play the game changes entirely. It's not about your story or companions, it' requires other players to get anything done while it was purely optional before. There really is nothing to do on your own other than repeat the same daily missions which is not a substitute. Yeah that's how typical MMOs play out end game, but the game also tries to sell itself to people who like the solo and story play more, and in the end they just get left out. There is going to be a finite end until all these things can be procedurally generated sure enough, but I'm just saying more thought should have been put towards this.

 

There is nothing in place to keep these types of players around, so they get bored and leave. I'd be curious to see the statistics of accounts of the first and second player exoduses. Seems to me there was two different noticeable drops in player population. I'd be willing to bet that the first drop would be roughly about how long it took the casual launch day/first month players to complete their class story and reach level 50. As well as play a role in the second drop, but less so. Probably time to do so once more with an additional class.

 

I think some people treated it like a single player game. They finished it and never came back. A monthly subscription probably convinced many of these social players to instead put the money towards another single player game and move on, rather than keep paying for something not all that different.

 

 

I could go on, but what good will it do. I know people who have already quit and are going to quit soon. More than 70% of the people we came in with.

 

It all comes down to this: Too slow to react, and a little too much of the same.Blizzard only gets away with it with WoW because it sat unopposed for so long, it's become "just something you do" "something that's become part of your life". And "because of friends and guildmates". If WoW was released today as it is, and players didn't have these long term relationships with other players - it would not have achieved nearly what is has. So I sincerely hope all current and future MMOs try their own thing and stop taking so much inspiration from WoW. More of what we've all had for years and years, without the relationships, does not equal a strong foundation upon which to build from.

Edited August 4, 2012 by ShaneW
formatting improvements

[DrDavidLopan]

 

Maybe these people like to play games 24/7, but in that case any game would eventually get boring.

 

You hit the nail on the head right here I think..... I absolutely love this game right now. Since they implemented a group finder tool and server mergers, I have been able to see all those flashpoints that I was unable to see a few months ago. I have had the greatest time trying to score new commendations to gear up my Sentinel. So much fun!

 

But..... these losers that play video games 10 hours a day, 6 days a week, will always be unhappy. I play a couple days a week for about 2-3 hours a sitting. Works out to between 6-8 hours a week. Now, if you really have nothing better to do than play a video game every day of your life... chances are you are not going to be happy about anything. Go outside, find some friends, have a few drinks, take a walk, find a fulfilling career, go back to school, join a club..... I mean, Jesus, video games every day of your life? Pretty sad. Play like a normal human being and there will be plenty of stuff to do at lvl 50.

[Blattan]

But..... these losers that play video games 10 hours a day, 6 days a week, will always be unhappy. I play a couple days a week for about 2-3 hours a sitting. Works out to between 6-8 hours a week. Now, if you really have nothing better to do than play a video game every day of your life... chances are you are not going to be happy about anything. Go outside, find some friends, have a few drinks, take a walk, find a fulfilling career, go back to school, join a club..... I mean, Jesus, video games every day of your life? Pretty sad. Play like a normal human being and there will be plenty of stuff to do at lvl 50.

 

Wow. You just voted yourself above the gene pool. Way to go...

[Goretzu]

You hit the nail on the head right here I think..... I absolutely love this game right now. Since they implemented a group finder tool and server mergers, I have been able to see all those flashpoints that I was unable to see a few months ago. I have had the greatest time trying to score new commendations to gear up my Sentinel. So much fun!

 

But..... these losers that play video games 10 hours a day, 6 days a week, will always be unhappy. I play a couple days a week for about 2-3 hours a sitting. Works out to between 6-8 hours a week. Now, if you really have nothing better to do than play a video game every day of your life... chances are you are not going to be happy about anything. Go outside, find some friends, have a few drinks, take a walk, find a fulfilling career, go back to school, join a club..... I mean, Jesus, video games every day of your life? Pretty sad. Play like a normal human being and there will be plenty of stuff to do at lvl 50.

 

 

Do you know how many hours a day the average westerner watches TV?

 

You get a lot of time on your hands if you simply don't watch any TV.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Goretzu

[aVmuse]

What is the serious class unbalanced nonsense? Everyone keeps saying it, but not what the actual balance problem is:rolleyes: I'm guessing it's just people who don't know how to pvp or have figured a good rotation for pve. Btw I don't have a pyro, but they are not unkillable, neither are marauders and assassins some people just gotta l2p.

 

But I do possible problem is for gunslingers and snipers that need to set-up for dps and there are to many knock backs in pve content, but for once melee dps gets an advantage in something...

[dcgregorya]

Reading the negative feedback guided towards the OP is hilarious. You who reply in the negative take the time to reply on the forum but yet you propose to compound your dislike? Anyone for paradox? Methinks you doth protest too much.

 

And please, (for all you whinging real life avoiders) don't for one minute think that by complaining, EA will stop to read and consider your point of view. I think your MBA obtained from your last 'lucky dip' or Christmas cracker will have expired. Roll on "I'm a webmaster/tech/SEO expert" replies - you know how to fix computers, not to sell.

 

For time vs cost, you will be lucky to replicate the value this game (or any other MMORPG) has to offer anywhere else, unless of course, you love advertising.

 

Finally and to the OP, discount 95% of replies to your post, as they are not objective. They are from the type of person who lives to deride without providing any forward thinking or vision for progress, because they cannot. If you like this game then stick with it. Ignore the masses and progress.

 

Perception is all that matters. EA should care about how their game is perceived. Ignoring how the game is perceived is a fairly major mistake. I'd say the biggest perception of the game is "buggy WoW-clone with voiceovers". If SWTOR wants to expand their appeal, F2P IMHO is a weaker strategy than simply giving the game something unique and appealing to alter that perception and actually advertise that to others.

 

You could for instance scrap PVP gear tiering, add another 10 warzones (come on they can't be *that* hard to produce) and balance the classes a bit better and label it as a PVP game (even though world PVP doesn't exist per se). Or you could add mini-games and socializing and chat bubbles and market it as a casual immersion game. Or you could do a hundred different things but right now the only identity this game has is "buggy WoW-clone".

 

Even something simple like tying content to the F2P switch gives people the perception (which may be true, for all I know) that F2P has taken priority over content for *subscribed customers*. Amongst the many baffling inadequacies of EA/Bioware is the simple inability to realize how certain actions are perceived.

Edited August 4, 2012 by dcgregorya