Why do people hate SWTOR, really?

[MajikMyst]

The nearly 2 MILLION people who quit the game beg to differ....

 

Source??

[SirRobin]

Source??

 

Yeah, I wouldn't call that hate. More "disappointment" perhaps?

[CygnusMX]

Expectations lead to dissapointment

Usualy expectations are pre imagined Disney like dream worlds that dont exist, not even in Disney land.

[Catsmeat]

Probably more in the neighborhood of 700k to a million, but that is still a huge number of customers who bailed on this game.

[Kalfear]

The nearly 2 MILLION people who quit the game beg to differ....

 

since the game sold 2.1 million units and we know in a worst case senario there is still 500k (and best is 1 million still here, which I doubt)

 

Id say your new math is not really working and perhaps a return to relearn the old proven math system would be a helpful and educational outting!

[SirRobin]

Expectations lead to dissapointment

Usualy expectations are pre imagined Disney like dream worlds that dont exist, not even in Disney land.

 

I just don't see expecting less than 90% of the content per faction to be identical, as a "Disney like dream."

[agamemnon-]

I think people can't get it through thier heads this is only the begining...They are spoiled in thinking that the "whole game" should be delivered to them on a silver platter... All you critics out there, this game is still in it's infancy

 

It's been said before, this is not 2004. You can't release game and hope for it to compete with a game during its 2004 days. You need to compete at 2011 levels.

 

It would be like if I opened up a burger joint in a third world country with only 5 menu items and poor beef. 7 years later I'm up to 20 items and your selection of angus or kobe beef. Here come a competitor, thinking its still 2004, and opens up a joint with 8 items and what ever meat is slightly below angus for about the same price. What do you think the people will spend their hard earned dollars on.

 

If you are going to compete with an established force, first impression count for everything. And SWTOR had a very poor first impression.

Edited August 3, 2012 by agamemnon-

[Blattan]

since the game sold 2.1 million units

 

Picking a nit: I thought it was 2.4 million?

[Catsmeat]

I just don't see expecting less than 90% of the content per faction to be identical, as a "Disney like dream."

 

Nor do I.

[Kalfear]

Picking a nit: I thought it was 2.4 million?

 

Ive only ever seen the 2.1 million from a offical EA investor meeting where they bound by law to release the correct numbers (even if they do pad the subscription numbers with free trials and other promotions. When it comes to units sold, its always a hard number).

 

Ive seen endless other numbers from gaming sites and fanboys, but those are never accurate and usually offer up large leeway (like the recent statement TOR has more then 500k and less then 1 million current subscribers) and even saw them flat out lie as well (before last investor meeting whats his name told a site point blank there had not been a large subscription loss and the numbers remained in the area of the previous investor report. Couple weeks later the last investor report comes out and we see a 400,000 subscriber drop AFTER they pad the numbers up counting free trials and returning players who got a month free to retry WITH OUT having to resubscribe.

 

So yeah, I tend to only go by the actual investor reports as between fanboys (not saying you btw) and just damage control, any number not bound by American Law has turned out to be suspect at best.

 

And 2.1 the only one Ive officially seen. But that was last investor report so new upgrade could be 2.4 and just not "officially" released yet.

[SirRobin]

Didn't they mention it in the earnings call before this one? Memory is fuzzy but 2.4 sounds familiar.

[Blattan]

Ive only ever seen the 2.1 million from a offical EA investor meeting where they bound by law to release the correct numbers (even if they do pad the subscription numbers with free trials and other promotions. When it comes to units sold, its always a hard number).

 

Well, my search revealed little (most reports at launch were "2+ million" - not very helpful), this is the best I found. (For fun, I did find this thread... How things have changed. )

 

I don't know how accurate it is, but in the end it doesn't matter.

 

My point was if they sold 2.4 million, and they are around 500K, that does end up nearly 2 million lost subs.

 

Not nearly as bad math as you tried to make it sound.

 

((And for reference: If my math is correct (not claiming it is - just without more details, it is all I have to go on), they will have around 400K subs at the end of this month. Isn't that about when the $15 box set [with 30 free days] is to be released? Probably just coincidence. ))

Edited August 3, 2012 by Blattan

[Soluss]

Its crazy because the game has so much potential to be good but fails at many aspects

 

1) more levels for each type of warzone(not new warzone mechanics) to make warzones less boring. Aka map packs.

2) Fix legacy(see my sig)

3) Add more tiers to high end raiding content to keep people playing

4) correct the god awful armor.

 

If these 4 things arent fixed, swtor will fail

 

#3) I think they need to just add more raids with variety in a given tier. You dont need to keep inflating stats to keep people chasing... just give different options. Different clicky or passive effects on gear. That gives players more options on how they want to develop their character. EQ and EQ2 did this pretty well. Here, we have 1 set of gear. No variety.

[magi_melcior]

The reasons why people "Hate" this game are varied and in some (but not all) cases a bit petty.

Reasons some people hate SWTOR:

1. It's not KOTOR 3, that's what a lot of players wanted, a story driven Single Player game that continued the adventures of Revan and the Exile. I'll admit it is also what I wanted but TOR has won me over, but some people will just never be happy.

2. It's not SWG, many SWG players mourned the loss the previous Star Wars MMO and a lot of them decided to blame TOR for it's demise so when TOR turned out to be different from SWG they decided the game sucked just because it wasn't SWG.

3. EA own Bioware. Lots of people hate EA (just as lots of Mac and Linux users hate Microsoft). To be honest I'm surprised these people purchased TOR (or any other EA game) at all, but they did.

4. The faults/bugs with the game, yes they are there, but almost all MMOs have had these problems when they first launch, remember TOR is less than 1 year old, some people just lack patience these days.

5. Expectations were too high. I think this is the big one, people thought (possibly due to over hype) that TOR would be a WoW beater from day 1. Launching with more content than WoW has right now and with non of the problems and issues that WoW had early on. They forgot that WoW is 8 years old, they've had plenty of time (and 3 expanison packs) to add in content and fix problems. It's not as if Bioware could copy & paste WoW's source code is it. Besides even Blizzard can still mess things up, look at the Diablo 3 launch fiasco, at least Bioware launched TOR with too many servers rather than too few.

 

I'm fairly sure there you'll find more reasons out there than these, there will be people who generally dislike the game or have had a bad experience with it. But personally I like this game (wasn't sure I would), although I think being in a decent guild really helps. The game certainly has it's faults, non class missions are all the same within the same faction. End of game content is limited atm, hopefully more will come sooner or later. PvP has balance issues (what PvP doesn't?) There are bugs I've been hit twice with the launcher bugging out after an update. There are too many credit sinks in the game, crafting is a drag and the end of game gear grind can get a bit repetitive. This is not a perfect game, nor the best game ever. but IMHO it is a good game, it certainly isn't terrible or the "worst game ever" as some on these forums like to claim, nor even the worst Star Wars game ever, Heros of the Terra Kasi or Super Bombard racing must claim that prize.

 

Ok I've said my bit, raising anti-flame shields, I think I might need them

[Styxx]

I don`t hate it. I do, however, really hate EA now and only a fraction less Bioware.

 

It`s really a shame to spend so much money and time, have potentially the best IP in the World... and fall flat on your nose in 7 months.

[Erasimus]

Trolls....hate anything they do.

 

Plus beyond high expectations. People expected TOR to be the Second Coming or something...everyone wanted "EVERYTHING NOW!!!!!!!" all the time. Very unrealistic playerbase...that is what happened.

 

This most of all. There are a lot of people that either just want to vent, or get pleasure out of trying to make others feel bad, the trolls. The best solution is to put them on your ignore list (Right click their portrait, link on bottom right). You would be surprised how pleasant the forums can be if you edit out the trolls

Edited August 4, 2012 by Erasimus

[NoxiousAlby]

This most of all. There are a lot of people that either just want to vent, or get pleasure out of trying to make others feel bad, the trolls. The best solution is to put them on your ignore list (Right click their portrait, link on bottom right). You would be surprised out pleasant the forums can be if you edit out the trolls

 

I dont accept this, yes there are those that will always complain and contnue to play but where there's smoke there is fire. The were far to many players who were dissapointed with the product released by BW, many left and others stayed hoping to see swift and significant change. Well it's been 9 months and we have had 1 raid(4 bosses) &2 flashpoints added, theres still alot of bugs, no changes to armour styles (except BH & campaign gear), slow implementation group finder and ranked warzones, no dual spec, & so many promises not kept.

 

Yes there will always be those that cry the sky is falling but I have never played a game where so many posters were dissatisfied on the forums, which lends me to believe that there was something wrong and it wasnt only just the playerbase.

[Erasimus]

I dont accept this, yes there are those that will always complain and contnue to play but where there's smoke there is fire. The were far to many players who were dissapointed with the product released by BW, many left and others stayed hoping to see swift and significant change. Well it's been 9 months and we have had 1 raid(4 bosses) &2 flashpoints added, theres still alot of bugs, no changes to armour styles (except BH & campaign gear), slow implementation group finder and ranked warzones, no dual spec, & so many promises not kept.

 

Yes there will always be those that cry the sky is falling but I have never played a game where so many posters were dissatisfied on the forums, which lends me to believe that there was something wrong and it wasnt only just the playerbase.

 

Then they should leave, let Bioware know why, and not pollute the forums with their vitriol. The forums should be for constructive criticism, suggestions, and civil discourse. And yes, I realize this is the internet. It amazes me how people that "hate" the game still find time to hangout in the forums of the game they hate. Why? Do you really think Bioware/EA pays any more attention to trolls than I do? They've already lost those players. Those who stay shouldn't have to wade through tons of post whose sole purpose seems to be to tell everyone that is still here how bad and disappointing the game is.

[CorellianWannabe]

The reasons why people "Hate" this game are varied and in some (but not all) cases a bit petty.

Reasons some people hate SWTOR:

1. It's not KOTOR 3, that's what a lot of players wanted, a story driven Single Player game that continued the adventures of Revan and the Exile. I'll admit it is also what I wanted but TOR has won me over, but some people will just never be happy.

 

This is effectively what you got-just with the Exile as a footnote/afterthought and Revan as a dungeon boss. I imagine most people will play it for free as a single-player game, just one without a save button.

[NodinC]

Oh, I don't think it's solely directed at ToR. It's more of a hatred at the human condition of sorts. After all these years we all see what is right and wrong in an MMO, yet gaming companies seem oddly oblivious. Then come up with plans for fixes that have nothing to do with why people leave a game.

 

It's kinda like the baffling nature of a movie remake that isn't as good as the original. Like Conan the Barbarian for instance. Who would have imagined people would willingly spend millions on something even worse than the original. Should be relatively cheap to buy the DVD, watch it, then say "hey, let's do that only better". But then I imagine some dude in the background adding on "...or not...whatever"

 

There's a lot of "win" in ToR, unfortunately only a few months of it is all.

[NoxiousAlby]

Then they should leave, let Bioware know why, and not pollute the forums with their vitriol. The forums should be for constructive criticism, suggestions, and civil discourse. And yes, I realize this is the internet. It amazes me how people that "hate" the game still find time to hangout in the forums of the game they hate. Why? Do you really think Bioware/EA pays any more attention to trolls than I do? They've already lost those players. Those who stay shouldn't have to wade through tons of post whose sole purpose seems to be to tell everyone that is still here how bad and disappointing the game is.

 

If you truly believe the above then you have no concept of what a forums are, the general section is always the heartbeat of any forums. Although only a small percentage of players will ever post the feelings expressed will always deliver an indication of the direction of posters feelings on any subject the forums are dealing with.

 

If you have the misconception that the forums should smell of roses when the subject matter pervades the nasal cavity like a putrid rotting corpse then i'm sorry but you should avoid the general section of the forums. With over 2 million box sets sold and only just over 500k subs after 9 months I hardly consider those posters criticising the game "trolls", these players are more in touch with the longevity of the game and see the direction it is heading. The fact BW/EA have announced F2P confirms this.

 

As for offering constuctive criticism it has already been done hundreds of times in the first 2 months of launch even earlier if you go back to comments posted during beta. The search function is your friend, and a person can only offer constructive criticism for so long when it falls on deaf ears.

 

As to why people continue to post long after they have already judged the subject matter is because in many cases they want to see it succeed. We are optimistic by nature and are always hoping for the best as only a masochists would continue to pay for something they dont like just to run it down.

[Natareus]

1.Made by EA, nuff said.

2. WoW clone with the star wars IP slapped on it

3. Lack of endgame.

4. Over hyped before release then failed to release content that was promised. (2 fps in 8 months, 1 wz, 1 op, 1 new tier of gear that looks bloody horrible, a group finder that doesn't work if one person declines, etc.)

5. Star fox space missions.

6. You spend most of the game questing alone on scripted planets.

7. No sandboxiness at all.

8. Started with too many servers then had to shut down many of them

9. Lack of world pvp.

10. To get pvp gear it's pretty much do the same 4 wz's hundreds of times.

11. Stated that people with average pc's could run it, while with average pc's it is horribly laggy.

12. Undeveloped economy

13. Extremely simple crafting

14. The game advertised creating your own story while you follow the same story as everyone else that is the same class as you and in the end nothing you do in your storyline affects the galaxy around you at all.

15. Made by a company that was great at making singleplayer rpgs that really didn't know what they were doing with an MMO.

16. Bug riddled (which is to be expected as an MMO.)

It's not that I hate the game, these are just the problems I see with it at the moment. I still play, and I'm excited for the cartel store to see how that makes things better. I understand that this has only has been around for 8 months and that it will probably get better over the years, but these are the issues with it now.

[Erasimus]

If you truly believe the above then you have no concept of what a forums are, the general section is always the heartbeat of any forums. Although only a small percentage of players will ever post the feelings expressed will always deliver an indication of the direction of posters feelings on any subject the forums are dealing with.

 

If you have the misconception that the forums should smell of roses when the subject matter pervades the nasal cavity like a putrid rotting corpse then i'm sorry but you should avoid the general section of the forums. With over 2 million box sets sold and only just over 500k subs after 9 months I hardly consider those posters criticising the game "trolls", these players are more in touch with the longevity of the game and see the direction it is heading. The fact BW/EA have announced F2P confirms this.

 

As for offering constuctive criticism it has already been done hundreds of times in the first 2 months of launch even earlier if you go back to comments posted during beta. The search function is your friend, and a person can only offer constructive criticism for so long when it falls on deaf ears.

 

As to why people continue to post long after they have already judged the subject matter is because in many cases they want to see it succeed. We are optimistic by nature and are always hoping for the best as only a masochists would continue to pay for something they dont like just to run it down.

 

And once you've decided that no one is listening to your "constructive" criticism you continue to post, why? My criteria for playing a game, any game, is simple. If I like the game I play, if I don't I move on to something else. If I intend to continue playing, but have issues that I think can be improved, I make suggestions.

 

Most posters seem to think they are speaking for the majority no matter what side they are on. I don't. There is no "we" when you make a post on a forum, just "I". I don't think this or any game is perfect, but my cup is always at least 1/2 full and I feel sorry for those for whom the cup is always 1/2 empty. But I'm about done with my posts for this week, I'm off to play for a bit.

[Knockerz]

I LOVE this game. But I suspect they are destroying it and whatever rich, epic content I was expecting to see with my monthly sub just got thrown under a bus in favour of the fast and easy profit in a Cartel Coins store.

 

I don't think that is the case. Wow lost 1.1 million users and d3 while it sold well didn't live up to the hype. The point I'm making is that the game industry especially the mmorpg sector is saturated and stale. Likewise, it doesn't look like the subscription model is most sustainable economic model for a mmorpg. If you thinking about it the best model is one where the player/account owners pay for what they want.

 

I personally don't think a pay to win cash shop is the way to go, but a pay for content system can work with cosmetic items sold in the cash shop. That way people who are only interested in pvp can buy pvp content and people who only want to do pve can buy only pve content. It also allows the developing company to focus it's development on the content that is most popular or profitable. If pvp is very popular than the development company can sell additional pvp maps or other pvp content. As for the cash shop, adding things like race, physical, and dye changes is good. The cash shop can also sport cosmetic gear. However, BW should do what Blizzard does in that most items are BOP so as to not affect galactic market or be used as a means to laundry real life money into in game credits.

 

I would pay for items like cosmetic gear, dyes for gear, and account services like xfers ect.

[Alaskangeek]

This game is great!

 

I'm glad they went F2P, will bring more folks in. The game was bleeding subs....in today's market, folks are not willing to pay $15/month anymore.