I urge people to calm down about F2P, and check out DDO

[spectreclees]

I think if we are still going to pay for the game, we should have it at a reduced price considering what we get from it. It's great we are getting it but 15 bucks for it all seems rather steep. I can afford it obviously but it's just a suggestion that the subscription cost should go down, would make it even more appealing to some if they cost was lower.

[Akomo]

DDO wasn't a true MMO. It was ok and the reason it went F2P is because it was missing a great deal when compared to the competition. TOR's issues all came from development errors...like destroying the classes people were enjoying to make the lackluster content more of a challenge. To much put into end game raiding rather than 50+ planetary content. No support for PVP...a development team that was "suprised" that people were PVPing. A focus on metrics outcomes over class design. The list goes on but the developers had a chance to bring the game back around...instead they give up. It takes a great deal of failure to go from nearly 2 million subs to 300k or less in 6 months. Mudflation was to fast in this game..1.2 was a terrible patch and they have not gotten better since.

 

Generic answer ive witnessed the last 9 years in this genre.No game other than WoW has 2 million subs anymore since the market is saturated with MMO's most of which fail.The PvP in this game has its place.They have given no less than 4 sets of pvp only armor for level 50s in less than 6 months since launch.

 

So your comment about no support for PvP? Bogus.They catered to pvp crowd and got burned just as i predicted to my guild.

 

Content keeps folks playing , not pvp.People who want to pvp all the time usually play pvp oriented games and none are an MMO.

[Ashu-ri]

Thruthfully, I think that LOTRO is a better model - they refined it somewhat. And it tripled their income from that game. And it's not p2w. Been there, done that with those arguments. MOst of what is had in the cash shop is fluff.

[Coriolan_Martius]

I urge people to voice their displeasure the right way by cancelling. I just did. Let BW know that F2P and P2W is not the answer to this game's problems.

[Akomo]

I think if we are still going to pay for the game, we should have it at a reduced price considering what we get from it. It's great we are getting it but 15 bucks for it all seems rather steep. I can afford it obviously but it's just a suggestion that the subscription cost should go down, would make it even more appealing to some if they cost was lower.

 

Your serious?How much is a pack of smokes ?Here its 10 bucks for 25 smokes.Or how about beer?almost 30 bucks for 24 bottles.A night at the bar? 200 bucks easy.Your internet is easily 30 to 50 a month.Cant afford 15 a month?Play free games then.Oh yes thats right we are going free to play.But kiss access to your crafters goodbye as well as end game dailies and content.

 

Bottom line is if you want everything TOR has to offer youll pay one way or another.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Akomo

[xippo]

Seriously.

 

Because F2P SAVED DDO, because they did it RIGHT. And judging by the looks of how this is shaping up, SWTOR is using DDO's model, which is PROVEN to be successful AND increased subs for DDO as well as increased profit, which allowed them to hire more devs to produce more content.

 

SWTOR is going to a dual sub method - subscription people will be VIPs who get everything for their subscription, whereas F2P people can buy things ala carte. Vanity items will be available to both via the cartel store. Seriously, this thing is JUST LIKE DDO, the one place that NAILED the F2P model and got it RIGHT.

 

TRUST me - most DDO vets who were invested there for a period of time can tell you, this is a GOOD thing. It doesn't come from some EA/Bioware fandom or riding someones jock - it comes from the fact that us DDO vets HAVE SEEN THIS MODEL WORK FIRSTHAND. We LIVED it. And let me tell you, its a very viable solution.

 

I know there is a lot of F2P stigma on the boards. Its always been there. But to be honest, the boards haven't always been right - groupfinder, for instance, despite its faults and need for tweaking, has been a godsend for a lot of people looking for FP groups.

 

This has a real shot at working, and as someone who is seeing bioware implement the DDO model, and the promise that people can play to 50 on F2P - they are handling this the right way. Trust in this method, and if you still have doubts, ping some of us DDO vets, and let us put your fears to rest...

 

I played DDO from a month after launch until nearly launch of TOR. F2P all but killed the game in my opinion. the quality of quests were sub-par and the community while it grew the quality of it dipped to new lows and made me not even want to log in anymore over there. 6 years of playing the game, capped toons on Thelanis, Khyber, and two other servers and I no longer felt compelled to even log in all because of the low quality of people and quests from F2P. Sorry but no thanks.

[jarjarloves]

Seriously.

 

Because F2P SAVED DDO, because they did it RIGHT. And judging by the looks of how this is shaping up, SWTOR is using DDO's model, which is PROVEN to be successful AND increased subs for DDO as well as increased profit, which allowed them to hire more devs to produce more content.

 

SWTOR is going to a dual sub method - subscription people will be VIPs who get everything for their subscription, whereas F2P people can buy things ala carte. Vanity items will be available to both via the cartel store. Seriously, this thing is JUST LIKE DDO, the one place that NAILED the F2P model and got it RIGHT.

 

TRUST me - most DDO vets who were invested there for a period of time can tell you, this is a GOOD thing. It doesn't come from some EA/Bioware fandom or riding someones jock - it comes from the fact that us DDO vets HAVE SEEN THIS MODEL WORK FIRSTHAND. We LIVED it. And let me tell you, its a very viable solution.

 

I know there is a lot of F2P stigma on the boards. Its always been there. But to be honest, the boards haven't always been right - groupfinder, for instance, despite its faults and need for tweaking, has been a godsend for a lot of people looking for FP groups.

 

This has a real shot at working, and as someone who is seeing bioware implement the DDO model, and the promise that people can play to 50 on F2P - they are handling this the right way. Trust in this method, and if you still have doubts, ping some of us DDO vets, and let us put your fears to rest...

you should mention that DDO has added new servers and is now just releasing it's first paid expansion pack.

 

Before that they have added about 2 races and 2 classes plus more new dungeons then they added when it was Pay 2 Play.

 

 

Same goes for LotrO.

[Vellem]

I don't really get the f2p rage either, at this point it can only help increase pop and those who continue to sub will get everything. I think people are just venting because, like me, they wanted this game to be so successful, it really could have been, and they feel like with f2p, it failed.

 

It's not really the case though, I believe things can still come around.

 

Because people like you don't get it. What does a population increase matter if they are all playing for free? Who does that help exactly? Can you pay the electric bill with free?

 

And even if you get some of those people to spend some money in the cash shop, where do you think that money is going to be reinvested into? That's right, more things to sell in the shop!

 

f2p games may boast a short term population increase but not a single one has ever become a better game after going f2p and in some cases the quality dramatically decreases because they go into maintenance mode where they put back as little as possible into the game so profits don't drop as badly when the cash shop sales dry up after the initial surge of curious players has come and gone.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Vellem

[Cordelia]

you should mention that DDO has added new servers and is now just releasing it's first paid expansion pack.

 

Before that they have added about 2 races and 2 classes plus more new dungeons then they added when it was Pay 2 Play.

 

 

Same goes for LotrO.

 

Didn't LotRO add Rune keeper and Warden with Mines of Moria, which was before F2P.

[Vellem]

Thruthfully, I think that LOTRO is a better model - they refined it somewhat. And it tripled their income from that game. And it's not p2w. Been there, done that with those arguments. MOst of what is had in the cash shop is fluff.

 

Wrong on every count.

The triple income was in the first few months after it went f2p. What is it now? Hint: not triple anymore.

Their store is full of p2w and advantage items. Look again.

[rlhaas]

I urge people to voice their displeasure the right way by cancelling. I just did. Let BW know that F2P and P2W is not the answer to this game's problems.

 

Ya know, I think this is my biggest problem with all of this. I've been trying to sit here and figure out *why* I don't like the F2P thing because aside from just not liking LoTRO, I couldn't really come up with any real reasons why I didn't like the idea. I think you finally shed some light on it for me. The fact that they look at their steadily declining subs and actually think anyone would swallow their drivel about people moaning and groaning over fifteen dollars a month when literally millions of players have gladly shelled out that amount for UO, WoW, EQII, SWG and others for years and years makes me mad. It also makes me mad that they think they're gonna 'fix' the sub problems with the game by just making it free when the REAL solution would be to, oh I don't know.......FIX THE PROBLEMS WITH THE DANG GAME! If they would've put their money into actually FIXING the game instead of putting it into 'Cartel Coins', this game could have worked just fine as it was.

[Akomo]

Didn't LotRO add Rune keeper and Warden with Mines of Moria, which was before F2P.

 

Yep.But since F2p theyve added two expansion packs which youll need to pay for.I get them for free with my turbine points for being a lifer.Whos laughing now suckas!

[Cordelia]

Yep.But since F2p theyve added two expansion packs which youll need to pay for.I get them for free with my turbine points for being a lifer.Whos laughing now suckas!

 

Well, I still have VIP there although I rarely play now but hubby pays for that anyway:) It's the one game where I would have liked to have bought a lifetime though. I bought a lifetime for STO when it launched...never again.

[xippo]

Indeed. That it worked for DDO isn't conjecture. The game was Dead in the Water, and their F2P model not only made it profitable, it allowed them to develop new content for it and build it into something pretty damn good if you are a fan of PvE.

 

The ONLY reason it was dead in the water was because the Dev's literally stopped putting out content for nearly a year and the "community team" there (if you want to call em that, and Tarrant and Tolero didn't help much either) stopped putting out any information to the people on the forums past "soon" . Had the devs continued to put out content on a regular basis after the first level cap raise, Drow, and the Meneachturun Sands content it wouldn't off been to the point it was at when they sold out all of their long term players, the people who kept the roof over their heads, for the F2P model. Now since the lawsuit between Turbine and Atari some of the reasoning for that has come to light but even still, even if they had just said that there were legal issues slowing the release of new content the fans would've stuck it out. They didn't and the community started fizzling out like a bad fart. F2P add a head count, nothing more!

[Skoobie]

Yep.But since F2p theyve added two expansion packs which youll need to pay for.I get them for free with my turbine points for being a lifer.Whos laughing now suckas!

 

Turbine is. Because, just like the last expansion, they will price it so that either you end up paying $$$ or make you grind for it.

 

How much was that last expansion in dollar value if you bought everything that went with it? Wasn't it like $70 or $80 after it was all said and done?

Edited August 1, 2012 by Skoobie

[Akomo]

Wrong on every count.

The triple income was in the first few months after it went f2p. What is it now? Hint: not triple anymore.

Their store is full of p2w and advantage items. Look again.

 

I am looking at it right now and there is nothing there that you dont get with a full sub.Whatever you do get that you cannot get in game has a timer on it meaning it isnt permenant.Its a temp shortcut so you dont HAVE to grind as much.The tomes for permenant stat bonus is what im guessing one of those things your talking about , but is not needed to play the game if you have a full sub.

[Nagadeath]

Because people like you don't get it. What does a population increase matter if they are all playing for free? Who does that help exactly? Can you pay the electric bill with free?

 

And even if you get some of those people to spend some money in the case shop, where do you think that money is going to be reinvested into? That's right, more things to sell in the shop!

 

f2p games may boast a short term population increase but not a single one has ever become a better game after going f2p and in some cases the quality dramatically decreases because they go into maintenance mode where they put back as little as possible into the game so profits don't drop as badly when the cash shop sales dry up after the initial surge of curious players has come and gone.

 

i don't think the population boost is going to be anywhere near what people think it will be. the main reason being most free to play gamers don't have very good gaming rigs. a great many of the free to players are running low end bare bones rigs and that will not fly with swtor. as someone who tried a lower end machine with this game i can tell you bw's version of the hero engine and lower end rigs do now mix.

 

the only way i see this game getting the free to play people to enjoy the game would be to get a new game engine and just have everyone redownload the game when the free to play goes live. basically just treat it as a total relaunch with a new game engine.

[Hardwear]

I urge people to voice their displeasure the right way by cancelling. I just did. Let BW know that F2P and P2W is not the answer to this game's problems.

 

I agree no long melodramatic emo posts just cancel.

 

If EA thinks the 40% that said they left because of the subscription model was bad just wait.

[Akomo]

Well, I still have VIP there although I rarely play now but hubby pays for that anyway:) It's the one game where I would have liked to have bought a lifetime though. I bought a lifetime for STO when it launched...never again.

 

And thats your choice.I still do play. So its worth it to me.

[Eillack]

General Forums = Rage, Trolling and QQ

 

And, F2P saves some MMO's financially (though TOR is still making a great profit as P2P), but "dies" at its core.

[Iiyria]

poor swtor never given a chance to breathe before they pulled the plug

[Arlbo_Nabbins]

What? The game ends when it goes F2P. How is it that no one understands that a F2P model means no new game development. No expansion. No new races. Just a bunch of fluff that you have to pay for. I would rather play Minecraft all day

 

We "don't understand" because you are flat out wrong. The majority of western MMOs that added F2P as an option still release(d) new content.

 

You do know that LOTRO already had all their expansions pre packaged right?

 

Source for that or I will call it what it is, a lie.

 

The 1st expansion after f2p took a year, and another year for the expansion due this September. And if you don't buy fluff in the shop you don't have to pay any cash for the expansions, the monthly free points are sufficient if you don't care about missing some pre-order cosmetics etc. They have also delivered multiple content updates that were free to subscribers.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Arlbo_Nabbins

[RenegadeCarlyle]

If you call cutting off arms and legs and issuing free wheelchairs saving things...ok.

 

seriously, name 1 top tier F2P game. Are there any that went F2P where the subs went up because of it? I am serious, I am not aware of any and I want some hope. Someone share a good link so we can ***** about it.

 

Easy answer.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/

[Akomo]

General Forums = Rage, Trolling and QQ

 

And, F2P saves some MMO's financially (though TOR is still making a great profit as P2P), but "dies" at its core.

 

Yes yes doom and gloom , but never happens.

 

Nice sig ! LOL!

[xippo]

How good DDO is is not the point, infact it even strengthens the author of the post's argument. If DDO is a terrible game and it's F2P model is making it extremely successful, think of what the same model can do for swtor!!! besides, i played DDO for a month and it wasn't that bad.....

 

Define successful....just because you as a company are making money even in the relative short term does not make you successful. People will buy the hype of a product if you market it as this new revolutionary thing and word of mouth will get others to try it too usually, but if you are putting out a **** product that jump in sales and usage will only last but so long before the customers get fed up either with the product, customer service, or in some cases (and as it was for me with DDO and LOTRO) the other customers. In the process of the F2P change with DDO the quality of the product and the community diminished to the point that it was shotty, half assed, and the little kids were more then annoying. hell I played DDO to escape my kids for awhile in the afternoon and evenings and not to come on and listen to some other idiot parents kids and be the built in babysitter for their idiot children.