vandana_ Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) You'd have a point if ya didn't have a subscription option as well... Chances are, people who are going to choose the f2p side, aren't current subscribers.... Also new content is basically required for F2P games.....LOTRO/DDO/COH/STO/Champions all make their primary cash from content. The subscriptions have been constantly falling. What makes you think that trend will stop? What makes you think BW will be realising any quality content when they laid-off 70% of their workforce? I think after they released everything what was promised in E3 (because it is almost ready) they major content updates will stop. With the designers focused on getting the profit from the cash shop you can forget about this game being even remotely innovative, major changes to the engine and proper space content. Forget about all the stuff people expected for this game and get ready to spend your cartel coins on useless stuff until you are so pissed that you switch to free. Edited August 1, 2012 by vandana_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vindigore Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I'm cool with a F2P model on 2 conditions; 1) No pay to win items are sold, including items that boost a players combat effectiveness, travel speed, crafting crit/success rate and anything else that could be construed to be "pay to win". XP boosts, pets, custom armor shells and mounts in my book are fine. 2) Development budgets for operations aren't sacrificed. Already I'm finding the rate at which new and challenging content is released for "end-game" to be glacially slow. If F2P removes Bioware's incentive to create operation content for the raiding community, my own incentive to continue to subscribe will also removed. Otherwise, bring on the pink tauntaun pets and celestial speeders. From the announcements so far, it seems that they follow the LOTRO example. The turbine store currently sells : xp/craft boosters, death penalty removals (which subscribers have to buy as well because the penalties apply to them too), stat boosters, travel/summon boosters, relic removal scrolls (an item essential for min/maxing your legendary weapon - read: for optimizing your gear - that subscribers have to buy as well since this service isn't available in game otherwise) and many more. Most of the things sold are available for free to subs but there is (usually) a stronger version of the xxx free-to-subs-service to be found in the store. Some times there isn't any service at all (like the death penalty/relic removal), so subs have to buy it in order to have it. I have yet to see any serious gear being sold in the store - yes, there is some but nothing significant, its mostly cosmetic with very low stats, that of a 15-20 level item. So, if you are ok with such a store, f2p won't change your gameplay at all. If you aren't...tough luck. As for operations, Turbine has delivered only 1 (purely f2p - moria was developed when the game was sub only) expansion (Isen) and we are waiting for the second (Rohan). It is universally acclaimed that Isen was below par with Moria expansion. Fewer content and until recently (some 8-9months after it release), it had (not frequent but non rare either) problems with the raid boss (resets/bug outs). The whole post is based on the assumption that they ll do it the "Turbine way", which for a lot of people here seems to be the best and the most successful one. P.S. : English isn't my native, please excuse any grammar mistakes (bar the serious ones, they have to be pointed out, so I can improve my use of english). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandana_ Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) relic removal scrolls (an item essential for min/maxing your legendary weapon - read: for optimizing your gear - that subscribers have to buy as well since this service isn't available in game otherwise) and many more. there we go Edited August 1, 2012 by vandana_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freyar Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 there we go Watch them give low-cooldown medical kits and energy/resource regeneration tools to the market as well. It'll happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverRaid Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Vindigore, "death penalty removals" - no such thing in LOTRO. And Isengard expansion was way more fun than dull mazes of Moria. The LOTRO problem was that they introduced expansions with very slow pace, like 1 each year, which is now a definitely losing strategy on the very dynamic mmo's market. Now they are trying to do it much faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Mandolorian Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Bioware, I think that you've made the right choice! All my friends and my sister have wanted to play this game but as soon as they heard that there was a subscription they all backed out. I predicted that before the end of the year you guys would make it free to play because Bioware is awesome like that. So i know at least 8 peple who are going to buy the game right now just to be happy and wait till the update comes out. Bioware we love you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XmaceukX Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 So glad my sub is up in August, feel like I've just been ripped off royally. 80 bucks for a game that went F2P before the first year is even up plus all my sub fees that went to pay for the development of F2P instead of the content that it should have went to pay for. First and only game I will ever buy from your company, what a joke. This is exactly like I am feeling, I just bought the game last month and now its going to be free to play as soon as I buy it. The coins I get only being a couple of months subscribing is not going to pay for the boxed game I have only just bought. I feel well and truly ripped off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xsorus Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 there we go You get free points every month as a subscriber in LOTRO, and realistically, you're not going to be changing your weapons often once ya get the Legendary ya want..Chances are you'll be changing maybe 1 or 2 of the stats on your actual Legendary if ya want to "min" max" but that'll be a one time thing for a very long long time.. The only time your Legendary becomes outdated End game is when they release a new Expansion pack with level increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-mar Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 short term thinking from from bioware/ea is the key. changes like augmentation kits showed that. economy was affected about 2 weeks. now its same like before. brought up a lot of server population to get the new stuff. thats it. long term thinking would mean, that they have to bring up new ideas that could make the game great... seems that they are scared of doing that. hey bioware, bring some depth to the game and look to star wars galaxies. there is so much to use that will make this game great - (real!) bounty board - "jump to lightspeed" - the whole crafting and farming thing - consumable gear ... those things will bring back that star wars feeling back that you need to make this game great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandana_ Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) Watch them give low-cooldown medical kits and energy/resource regeneration tools to the market as well. It'll happen. of course it will. it's just another thing to be sold. Edited August 1, 2012 by vandana_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vindigore Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) Vindigore, "death penalty removals" - no such thing in LOTRO. And Isengard expansion was way more fun than dull mazes of Moria. The LOTRO problem was that they introduced expansions with very slow pace, like 1 each year, which is now a definitely losing strategy on the very dynamic mmo's market. Now they are trying to do it much faster. Death penalty in Lotro = dread. Now, lets see in Turbine store: Tome of Rouse Spirit - "Use of this object will remove Dread that a player has acquired by being defeated. Tomes of Rouse Spirit can be used every 5 minutes. 1 use." Under Healing & Recovery, there's a section called Dread - open that and you should see both the single and the stack of 5 available for sale. 100tp for one, or you can buy a stack of 5 for 450tp. For a comparison, the monthly amount of tp (turbine points) a subscriber gets, is 500 - thats equal to 5 of these tokens and you get 50tp change. Yes, you can wait 10 mins for it to wear off. But 10 mins isn't an acceptable time to stand & do nothing after a wipe in an instance or raid. Yes, there are some classes that can remove it with a skill but they can do it to only 1 person, then, its on cd. Also, the hope tokens are better used to counter the boss' inherent dread and not the death penalty one. On the Isen vs Moria expansions we can agree that we disagree. I don't find stunning success an xpac that has so many problems for such long time on its only raid. Lastly, no, you dont change your legendary every expansion - just like you don't change your gear only once during an expansion. At the beginning you craft the age 3 weapon, then you get the item needed for age 2, and then if your lucky enough, you get an age 1 weapon. Then you cross your fingers to get the legacies you want, otherwise, you have to find yourself another weapon. That hardly seems "one time per expansion" . Edited August 1, 2012 by Vindigore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grammarye Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 The path to a frustrating & painful cash shop that annoys subscribers is strewn with good intentions & 'just one more' subtle advantages. Keep things in the store cosmetic, or unlocks that subscribers either already have or can afford easily with the 200 coins a month, and we'll get on fine. Oh who am I kidding, this is EA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xsorus Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) Death penalty in Lotro = dread. Now, lets see in Turbine store: Tome of Rouse Spirit - "Use of this object will remove Dread that a player has acquired by being defeated. Tomes of Rouse Spirit can be used every 5 minutes. 1 use." Under Healing & Recovery, there's a section called Dread - open that and you should see both the single and the stack of 5 available for sale. 100tp for one, or you can buy a stack of 5 for 450tp. For a comparison, the monthly amount of tp (turbine points) a subscriber gets, is 500 - thats equal to 5 of these tokens and you get 50tp change. Yes, you can wait 10 mins for it to wear off. But 10 mins isn't an acceptable time to stand & do nothing after a wipe in an instance or raid. Yes, there are some classes that can remove it with a skill but they can do it to only 1 person, then, its on cd. Also, the hope tokens are better used to counter the boss' inherent dread and not the death penalty one. On the Isen vs Moria expansions we can agree that we disagree. I don't find stunning success an xpac that has so many problems for such long time on its only raid. You're aware that people did the whole stand around and do nothing for years before the store came out....Or if they really wanted to get it done, they clicked on their DP wallet and got rid of it....Ya know.. the thing you earn in the game automatically since the beginning and can be used to remove Death Penalties... I don't think i've ever seen anyone actually spend any cash on removing DP in Turbine in all the time i've raided in that game.... It's simply not worth the money. Also.. Two words: Hope Tokens. Either buy some from the AH or level a jeweller and make them. Hope tokens can be taken before fighting which will give you a nice morale buff, or they can be popped after defeat so they remove dread. Edited August 1, 2012 by Xsorus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timetravelzeero Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) hey bioware, bring some depth to the game and look to star wars galaxies. there is so much to use that will make this game great - (real!) bounty board - "jump to lightspeed" - the whole crafting and farming thing - consumable gear ... those things will bring back that star wars feeling back that you need to make this game great. Quote Edited August 1, 2012 by Timetravelzeero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xsorus Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Here is the choice SWTOR subscribers have.. A. a LOTRO type system with multiple content updates and Expansions... B. Warhammer Online 2.0.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverRaid Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) Vindigore, removing temporary dread is a resurrection buff and only that. You can easily wait minutes for dread disappear without that buff or use craftable and sellable Hope+ tokens. LOTRO doesnt have perma death penalty, so no need for it removal. Ppl here that didnt play LOTRO may misunderstand you. PS: What is nice of LOTRO is that you can play full content being f2p. Its just (like already mention here) much more grindy for f2p, but no restrictions. And I would also suggest to BW to find way to make f2p heavily grindy but with FULL access. We need abundant choice of players for ops, wzs. Ops and rwz will DIE if no abundant population and if you have no competition. That means that end-game content will die too. Edited August 1, 2012 by RiverRaid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krayven Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Hopefully they go the DDO route with this, as in subscribers get full access to EVERYTHING in the game automatically (eg new races, fp's, ops etc) where the F2P players can only access those things by purchasing them through the store (or even making some things exclusive to subscribers to encourage monthly subs) Only time will tell.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draconianknight Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I am looking at this in a positive light. The current buisness modle for several MMOs is F2P and they are surviving even flourishing. I point to STO as an example. After a botched launch and finally taking time to correct some major flaws. The game appears to be not only alive but growing. F2P allows more players to sample and enjoy a game that in todays economy may not otherwise be able too. Also, from the content of the accouncement it appears that an effort is being made to accomidate paid sub memebers. So from a business point of view I understand, as a paid subscriber that paid for the collectors edition, I will be watching Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vindigore Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) Vindigore, removing temporary dread is a resurrection buff and only that. You can easily wait minutes for dread disappear without that buff or use craftable and sellable Hope+ tokens. LOTRO doesnt have perma death penalty, so no need for it removal. Ppl here that didnt play LOTRO may misunderstand you. I think I said that you can either wait for it to wear off in 10 mins or use a cd skill that some classes have, to remove it (or use the store item). @ Xsorus. On the hope tokens subject, I pointed out that they are usually used to counter the boss' dread - not the death one. As I ve said in my first post, English isn't my native, so I hope I haven't confused anyone with my statements. If I have done so, I sincerely apologize. Edited August 1, 2012 by Vindigore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarekLonefeather Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I'm not surprised about this decision. F2P is the new model for these games as it has proven to be more lucrative in most cases. However, it does seem like everyone who currently has level 50 toons is getting the short end of the stick since they had to pay for all of that content that F2P players will get for free. The Cartel rewards better be pretty impressive to make up for that. I'm contemplating leaving this game anyway since I've found there is nothing I want to do at 50 and I'm bored with leveling alts and doing all of the same missions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krintar Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I haven't logged in for nearly a month. Don't have the time for gaming () and not really in the mood for MMO gameplay recently anyway. Nonetheless, I was happily keeping my subscription up because I loved the ideas behind SWTOR and wanted to support its continued development. No amount of balance changes, focus toward / away from certain game elements and playstyles, or technical issues with the servers or client software would have changed my mind on that. With this announcement, I am cancelling my subscription. This is the only thing that could have done it. Grats guys, and adieu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grammarye Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I'd like to echo the other posters who asked for an actual ability to vote without having to be part of that awful Facebook system. It is not something that everyone uses or wants to use. Not a precedent I want to see set, thank you very much. I suppose we could run another 'I used to be part of the community, but now I'm just a TOR subscriber' campaign, which I'm sure Bioware remembers well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattycutts Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I seem to remember people saying the same thing about Star Trek Online...it seems to be doing pretty well since F2P launched. Thats very true, one of my 1st mmo's was DDO online, loved it, eventually left, it went F2P, and it braught a new life to it and i continuously go back to it every so often, From expeirences ive had with F2P is it actually brings numbers and content far quicker than when it was sub only. As long as they bring the goods on a regular basis this could be a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goosie Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I hope you go bankrupt. I will not buy another Bioware product voluntarily again. I suppose you can use your own game making experience and millions of Dollars to do better hey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeVirus Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I hope you go bankrupt. I will not buy another Bioware product voluntarily again. Voluntarily? What a stupid statement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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