Arkerus Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 General rule of thumb in the forums... If healers are dying, its because DPS is OP and it needs to be toned down. Healers are ultra skilled and even with an IQ of 300, no one can play a healer right because healing is broken. If healers are doing well, its because all people who play a healer are ultra skilled keyboard ninjas and DPS classes are all bad players. DPS just need to learn their class because healers are actually really weak. If DPS didn't suck they would win. Its not the healers fault that they can effectively heal themselves and 3 other people. Nope. Its because DPS are terrible. In fact, healing needs a buff because... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjkdollarbanny Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Take your shots if you want but healers should not be able to dominate an ops ground based solely on their ability to heal. I have seen too many 50< BG's where a single healer can carry a team to victory. I understand healers should make a difference but having a healer on your side should not guarantee victory, ecspecially whne they're spamming the same 2s cast heal over and over again regardless of GCD. FIX THIS BIOWARE fix yourself noob. set 1 mara on healer And healer will think only about surviving. get your own healer for team. but you cant do it. cus instead of doin something you prefer whine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaroneus Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 the healers, let people know the order. If dps don't understand how to interrupt and focus heals, then that is why healers stay alive and games get won by unchecked healers. This is all a L2P issue. bingo. someone ate his wheaties this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islander Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) Take your shots if you want but healers should not be able to dominate an ops ground based solely on their ability to heal. I have seen too many 50< BG's where a single healer can carry a team to victory. I understand healers should make a difference but having a healer on your side should not guarantee victory, ecspecially whne they're spamming the same 2s cast heal over and over again regardless of GCD. FIX THIS BIOWARE Heals don't dominate crap. DPS does the dominating. Almost every warzone is about killing multiples and in short order in order to achieve an objective. Kill too slow and you'll fail: in Alderaan, Voidstar, and Novare. If you think a single healer is carrying a team of DPSers, then not only are you wrong, but your teams are bad for not killing that healer. They have this icon called a crosshair. Might want to use it sometime, even if it ends up costing you a death reset. Then type in OPS hey guys, healer marked. it's not hard. Edited July 30, 2012 by islander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaace Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) Oh you mean how people go from 100% hp to 5% hp in a matter of seconds with a marauder and pt on you? with 2 dps on you, it's possible to die before you get a chance to react... that doesn't seem right to me. TLDR; People who say healing is OP just suck really bad. Healing was OP... for the first 3 weeks while everyone was leveling, and there was 1-50 wz. Edited July 30, 2012 by spaace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oredith Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 pro-tip : kill the healer, instead of mindlessly dps'ing the dps while their HP never goes down. i've stopping being surprised at how few people actually interrupt heals. it doesn't matter how many guard/taunts a healer has helping him, if there's 4 dps on him/her,he/she is gonna die. you just need the rest of the group to not be bad - which is probably the real challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katsuragisama Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 pro-tip : kill the healer, instead of mindlessly dps'ing the dps while their HP never goes down. i've stopping being surprised at how few people actually interrupt heals. it doesn't matter how many guard/taunts a healer has helping him, if there's 4 dps on him/her,he/she is gonna die. you just need the rest of the group to not be bad - which is probably the real challenge. I'd hate to say it, but this is definitely one of those L2P issues. Even when I ran Deception spec, I would still kill the healer. Interrupt with Jolt, Low Slash, Electrocute, or just Force Cloak and Spike. They might be able to heal themselves, but they're not helping the rest of their team either. Even if there is someone with guard on them, if that person gets too far away from the healer, I'm gonna position myself for a knockback to create even further distance between the guard and the healer, effectively dropping the guard. There was one time when a tankassin and myself, stayed back for a second during a huttball match. He jumped into the pit and grabbed one of the healers from the opposing team down with him. That healer had a guard on him, but with the usefulness of force pull, he lost it. So we double teamed the healer they had, and the rest of our team was able to efficiently destroy the ball carrier. Kill him, get the ball, and start running for the goal line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurfer Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 The problem isn't really the healers. It's guard, cross heals, peels, taunts &c. &c. If you catch a healer alone, he/she is probably in a lot of trouble. But if there's a tank w/in 15 meters - yeah, you and another dps won't kill that healer. ^ This OP healers are not the problem, it's fail DPS that don't realize it's not always the best choice to just tunnel a guarded healer getting peels by players more skilled than you. If you don't understand how to work as a team with another dps to maximize your efficiency or know what "hard switch" means. Then "OP healers" are the least of your problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chikun Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 If anything healers should get more medals by being awesome. MOAR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oredith Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 If anything healers should get more medals by being awesome. MOAR! i support this message. getting medals is definitely harder for a healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayshames Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 To be honest, if your not able to kill a healer there is something wrong. They are either being gaurded or your not interrupting/pressuring enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sookster Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 If anything healers should get more medals by being awesome. MOAR! I get medals like crazy on my tank than my dps or healer, I easily get 15-16 medals on tank and I'm lucky to get 10-12 on my healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oredith Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I get medals like crazy on my tank than my dps or healer, I easily get 15-16 medals on tank and I'm lucky to get 10-12 on my healer. in any drawn out fight where the 2 sides are nearly equal in lack of coordination, a dps with the ability to taunt should rack up the most medals. i've gotten 20 medals in a losing huttball once. 3:4.. >_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islander Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 don't you only need to get 8 medals for max valor and comms though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharee Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 ... ecspecially whne they're spamming the same 2s cast heal over and over again regardless of GCD. FIX THIS BIOWARE GCD is here to prevent (most) abilities from being activated more often than once every 1.5 seconds. A 2 sec cast time heal obviously won't get activated more often than once evey 2 seconds. Therefore it being able to be spammed "regardless of GCD" is kinda how it's supposed to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furiousferret Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Every week this comes up and every derpPS says something to the extent of 'my damage should barely outdamage a healers heals'. So essentially what they want is the healers to be warzone target dummies. Now people are mad that if healers act as a team they can't be killed. Thats kinda the point of a team based game. Right now its pretty balanced. A healer should be able to stay alive long enough to support the team, if he isn't then whats the point of even bringing a healer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackNader Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Use common sense guys. Healers are the ONLY class that have the potential to BREAK a warzone. Think back to pre 1.2 when we had 2 - 4 healers in any one civil. The 2 side turrets got capped and we spent the entire 15 minutes clubbing the **** out of each other in mid while nobody died! At the end of the game you'd tally up the heal vs DPS and the heals always way out healed the DPS. This is why Bioware nerfed healers in 1.2! The problem is that their healing nerf was not a proper fix. It was a temporary fix.. aka kicking the can down the road. Healers are already starting to break warzones. Albeit not yet on the scale of pre 1.2 but mark my words. The next gear upgrade and it's healers of the old republic again. Whenever bioware releases a major update they always release new gear tiers. We've gone through several generations already, the latest being War hero + full Augmentation. All gear tier upgrades substantially boost Damage and Healing output over the previous generation. Note also that Bioware increases not just the damage but also the HP and armor rating too. The goal is simple. You maintain an illusion that the gear has been upgraded but in actuality it hasn't. Eg. Let's say that a certain upgrade increases all damage by 5%. This damage must be met by an increase in HP and damage reduction so that the entire equation cancels out. Without a net return of 0%, damage increases at a rate faster than mitigation leading to balance issues down the road. Now the problem here is that Bioware has only solved this problem half way. Since launch they have maintained a policy of jacking up kinetic and energy resistances across the board while leaving Internal and elemental completely unchecked. Ever wonder how Pyro Powertechs, a class that was balanced at launch, got to be the FOTM face rolling class they are now? Look no further! Pyro PowerTech's are the perfect case subject. All their damage is either elemental or massively ignores the targets armor. Since Launch, elemental damage has increased at a rate faster than kinetic and energy damage types. This has produced the perfect storm. Pyro PT's simply beat most classes now through raw damage output. You're probably thinking at this point.. what the hell has Pyro PT's got to do with healers? The answer is simple. Just like internal and elemental resistance, heals are not being offset. eg. Let's say that Bioware increase damage and heals by 2% through primary stats. They then boost the HP and damage reduction so as to ensure that their is NO overall damage gain. Bioware also must reduce all healing received by 2% or we end up with healers increasing in power faster than every other character. But wait??? when was the last time Bioware offset the stat boost to heals? The answer is 1.2 when they adjusted the "healing received" mechanic of expertise. So why can't you allow healers to outheal DPS and live forever? Simple.. it breaks games! Healers must always lose to DPS. This is a golden MMO rule and one that most MMO games sadly break all the time. This is how you balance healers.. it's actually very very simple. You have any fully geared DPS attack a fully geared healer. The DPS uses the optimal rotation. The healer is given enough instant cast heals to survive at least 30 seconds. You then give the healer 1- 2 interruptable burst heals. The result is that if the DPS fails to interrupt, the healer lives forever. Left unchecked, the healer has enough burst capacity to keep any team mate up indefinitely. Once the healer is attacked it always loses unless it is guarded. It should now take just over 2 DPS to kill the tank and the healer combo. Even in this situation described above, healers are no pushover. You get multiple healers / tanks in any warzone and its going to take a lot of team effort to punch through it. I'm sure there will be plenty of people disagreeing with all of this.. probably mostly healers. I'd like to point out that I have a lvl 50 sorc healer. I've gone through the same pain as anyone trying to heal. The difference being that I know if given any kind of immortality.. I will absolutely use it to break warzones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islander Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) Really, it's DPS who are terrible. It's not that hard to take down a healer if you aren't bad, and have at least 1200 expertise. Use your interrupts, be patient, or just do what happened to me last night, and zerg on site. I was in a voidstar last night where I was the only heals. I died 16 times. Still had 12 medals and we got the win. Made it all worth it. Seriously though, they'd use one trooper to pull me to the pack, a smuggler stunned me and trooper set me on fire, it was so ridiculous all I could do was laugh and cc a couple of them, force them to use their release if they had it. Helped keep some of them from the door at least for a few seconds. Winning warzones takes skill, gear, and situational awareness. Most people who participate really lack one of these. Me? I'm missing a good bit of all three, but at least it's a pretty equal distribution Edited July 31, 2012 by islander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusFTW Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Take your shots if you want but healers should not be able to dominate an ops ground based solely on their ability to heal. I have seen too many 50< BG's where a single healer can carry a team to victory. I understand healers should make a difference but having a healer on your side should not guarantee victory, ecspecially whne they're spamming the same 2s cast heal over and over again regardless of GCD. FIX THIS BIOWARE would love to see this guy try to pvp before 1.2 ROFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islander Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 would love to see this guy try to pvp before 1.2 ROFL Indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackNader Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 No, Jack. : No jack what? What are you disputing about my post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro_Chrome Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 this is just not true healers if anything need a slight tweaking upwards not downwardsas it stands now 2 solid dps FOCUSSING can burn a healer if they are guarded and usually kill the tank first without any direct damage on the tank... 3 good dps can elimnate a healer and tank combo with 3-4 abilites each healers need to be able to manage resource a touch better the only healer that does not need a slight buff is the scoundrel healer. if a warzone only has one healer in the entire warzone and can actually get off heals in the current meta, the dps are either weak or not focussing targets. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTomorrow Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 DPS trying healing here. My God how powerful the guard is. I am unkillable every Warzone i see pathsetic attepmpts at trying to stun or kill me. They cannot do crap against me. Operative healing is so fricking powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islander Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 No jack what? What are you disputing about my post? "Healers are already starting to break warzones. Albeit not yet on the scale of pre 1.2 but mark my words. The next gear upgrade and it's healers of the old republic again." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islander Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) DPS trying healing here. My God how powerful the guard is. I am unkillable every Warzone i see pathsetic attepmpts at trying to stun or kill me. They cannot do crap against me. Operative healing is so fricking powerful. I'm a sorc, and good DPS teams have no issues working through me, even guarded. Sure, it definitely takes longer, but I'm far from unkillable for the skilled team. Then again on Fatman it seems Republics are (overall) better PvPers then Imperials. Then again, operative healers are, as I undestand it, the optimal pure healing archtype these days. I've sort of found my niche my being able to contribute 100-150k in DPS as well in zones as well as offhealing 200-300k Edited July 31, 2012 by islander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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