Post here if you are numb.

[Smashbrother]

^^ People don't get it. They think the tiny amount of expertise you get on Recruit gear is such an enormous deal. I just got my gunslinger to 50 the other day and queued for a WZ just for fun. I had ZERO expertise and pretty much no lvl 50 gear yet. I finished that WZ with 230k dmg, 38 kills, 2 deaths. lol Expertise is so overrated.

 

900 exp is tiny? *** are you smoking?

 

As a fresh 50, recruit gear is the best thing you can get for pvp and pve. It's far better than any gear you're wearing while you leveled up.

[wetslampigduex]

You are aware that the term "PvE gear" covers more than leveling gear, right?

You should qualify your statements in order to avoid repeating the last 2-3 pages

 

yeah seeing as i posted.. i had a duel with a guildie in full campaign... which i have myself i am aware PvE gear is more than lvling greens.. it doesnt matter what tier lvl PvE gear u have it sucks in PvP:cool:

[Riatha]

Personally I think they should do away with expertise/ gear completely for pvp. It ruins the game. Pvp is no longer about skill or competitiveness its about which team is better geared.

do away with all gear in organised pvp - make it cosmetic/ title rewards for higher ranks.

for example if you enter a wz all gear is greyed out nad you get a standard set of gear for your class only cosmetically different to denote your rank.

That way it will be about Skill, Team play and organisation and everyone no matter if they are new 50's or vetrans will have a chance and it will cancel these arguments

Just my 2 cents anyway.

P.S. BW can then also relably tell if a class IS actually OP without the gear vs gear equation coming into it at all.

[SirMoody]

900 exp is tiny? *** are you smoking?

 

As a fresh 50, recruit gear is the best thing you can get for pvp and pve. It's far better than any gear you're wearing while you leveled up.

 

yea... Recruit gear is definitely better than what my fresh 50 gunslinger is currently wearing.... sure my 230K dmg and 38 kills is small compared to that top geared PT with 600k dmg and 50 kills..... but would i call it useless, or the same as playing 7v8... nope.

[Kurfer]

Personally I think they should do away with expertise/ gear completely for pvp. It ruins the game. Pvp is no longer about skill or competitiveness its about which team is better geared.

do away with all gear in organised pvp - make it cosmetic/ title rewards for higher ranks.

for example if you enter a wz all gear is greyed out nad you get a standard set of gear for your class only cosmetically different to denote your rank.

That way it will be about Skill, Team play and organisation and everyone no matter if they are new 50's or vetrans will have a chance and it will cancel these arguments

Just my 2 cents anyway.

P.S. BW can then also relably tell if a class IS actually OP without the gear vs gear equation coming into it at all.

 

So this doesn't work...

 

Here is why:

 

Top PvP guilds look for edges to make them competitive, they learn how to raid and clear content getting the best weapons. To compete at a high level you also then are forced to PvE to get PvP gear. This makes PvPers upset.

 

PvEers get upset because then you have PvPers flooding their groups who don't enjoy the PvE aspect. You get people like me in your raid that don't respect the talent level and min/max nerdism of the typical PvE dork and I usually sit around impatient begging people to pull because the crap is so easy.

 

IF you would assume that pure blood pvpers would NOT go after the top tier raid gear weapons and such then it would be ok. Yeah you would have the occasional PvE'er rolling in top gear but he most likely would still get rolled because PvEers are not used to the increased competitive nature of the game when it comes to PvP.

 

This happened in vanilla wow, this is the reason Blizzard invented the "different gear set" approach in the first place.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Kurfer

[Talsyrius]

If I recall, recruit gear gives you about 18% damage boost, and 15% damage reduction. That would mean that to deal 10k damage on each other, you would need to do 11,7647k damage without expertise, where as the recruit geared player would only need to do 8,475k

 

if you have 18k hp without expertise, or 14.5 with, that would mean the recruit geared player would need to deal 15.25k, compared to 17,05 from the guy without expertise.

So far so good for the pve geared guy, it would require their damage be 11,8% higher, which doesn't sound unreasonable.

However, when they start to get healed, problems arise. if both receive 5k heals, the recruit geared person would need to deal 19,49k damage, compared to 22,94k damage, which is a 17% difference.

The more you get healed, the better is the pvp gear.

[oredith]

If I recall, recruit gear gives you about 18% damage boost, and 15% damage reduction. That would mean that to deal 10k damage on each other, you would need to do 11,7647k damage without expertise, where as the recruit geared player would only need to do 8,475k

 

if you have 18k hp without expertise, or 14.5 with, that would mean the recruit geared player would need to deal 15.25k, compared to 17,05 from the guy without expertise.

So far so good for the pve geared guy, it would require their damage be 11,8% higher, which doesn't sound unreasonable.

However, when they start to get healed, problems arise. if both receive 5k heals, the recruit geared person would need to deal 19,49k damage, compared to 22,94k damage, which is a 17% difference.

The more you get healed, the better is the pvp gear.

2 problems you fail to take into account:

 

1. pve gear is much better itemized for primary dps stats (because they don't have to allocate stat to expertise), so doing more damage is actually quite easy.

 

2. healers tend to not "waste" heals on a person with only 13k HP. they're gonna die regardless of heals or not.

[Kurfer]

If I recall, recruit gear gives you about 18% damage boost, and 15% damage reduction. That would mean that to deal 10k damage on each other, you would need to do 11,7647k damage without expertise, where as the recruit geared player would only need to do 8,475k

 

if you have 18k hp without expertise, or 14.5 with, that would mean the recruit geared player would need to deal 15.25k, compared to 17,05 from the guy without expertise.

So far so good for the pve geared guy, it would require their damage be 11,8% higher, which doesn't sound unreasonable.

However, when they start to get healed, problems arise. if both receive 5k heals, the recruit geared person would need to deal 19,49k damage, compared to 22,94k damage, which is a 17% difference.

The more you get healed, the better is the pvp gear.

 

Thus in the WZ environment, the PvP gear trumps it. It's one thing to duel recruit vs pve but it's another in a full team fight environment.

 

I would challenge anyone to get a team of 8 in columi and a team of 8 in recruit...assuming equal skill. The recruit team face rolls.

 

I also think too many people are talking up columi gear to be something it's not. The reality is, it's not that good.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Kurfer

[PalihoJ]

LOL!!! I have NEVER seen them called that and what sense does that make? Landing site and generator? Is this more easier recognized than grass and snow? If I'm ever lost I hope to never run into you when asking for directions.

 

What do you mean "what sense does that make?" It is their names.....And if people learned the names they would be easily recognized.

If nobody learned the names of the bases on a WZ map what would happen if one day they implemented a map with 5 bases a la Arathi Basin in WoW. So people in AB would be shouting "Incoming at the place at the top of the hill with lots of wood around" or "Incoming at the base near the bottom of the map with horses".

At least if you were lost I would be able to tell you name of the place you were at or going to rather than "doh you're at the snowy place" or "we are in the east".

Edited July 30, 2012 by PalihoJ

[UGLYMRJ]

What do you mean "what sense does that make?" It is their names.....And if people learned the names they would be easily recognized.

If nobody learned the names of the bases on a WZ map what would happen if one day they implemented a map with 5 bases a la Arathi Basin in WoW. So people in AB would be shouting "Incoming at the place at the top of the hill with lots of wood around" or "Incoming at the base near the bottom of the map with horses".

At least if you were lost I would be able to tell you name of the place you were at or going to rather than "doh you're at the snowy place" or "we are in the east".

 

Your lack of logic makes this a losing battle for us both....

 

My point is only this... why would you make it the longest and far more complicated word or words than what's already most commonly used. I'm not saying it's complicated, but seriously... Landing site and Generator?

 

Oh yeah... that makes WAY more sense than east/west or snow/grass. Much easier to identify AND type.

 

Anyways... I'm probably being trolled anyways so in that case. Well done sir.

 

Btw... Get your grASS to weast sNOW!

Edited July 30, 2012 by UGLYMRJ

[Keblitis]

What do you mean "what sense does that make?" It is their names.....And if people learned the names they would be easily recognized.

If nobody learned the names of the bases on a WZ map what would happen if one day they implemented a map with 5 bases a la Arathi Basin in WoW. So people in AB would be shouting "Incoming at the place at the top of the hill with lots of wood around" or "Incoming at the base near the bottom of the map with horses".

At least if you were lost I would be able to tell you name of the place you were at or going to rather than "doh you're at the snowy place" or "we are in the east".

 

This made me chuckle.... Thank you Mr. Rational-thinker.

 

Now if only 'they' would have made the name static on the map and not a mouse-over, we would be having an entirely different conversation, if one at all.

[oredith]

Your lack of logic makes this a losing battle for us both....

 

My point is only this... why would you make it the longest and far more complicated word or words than what's already most commonly used. I'm not saying it's complicated, but seriously... Landing site and Generator?

 

Oh yeah... that makes WAY more sense than east/west or snow/grass. Much easier to identify AND type.

 

Anyways... I'm probably being trolled anyways so in that case. Well done sir.

 

Btw... Get your grASS to weast sNOW!

or, you know, "3 W"..

 

i love getting the "incoming 3 w3455wwwdddawtrtkjtha"

 

sometimes, we don't need a full narrative of the incoming, what color shirts they're wearing, etc. just call out number and location..

[Jenzali]

Medium to top end PvE gear is statistically superior to entry level PvP gear for PvP. This is mathematically provable/

 

I don't think that's the issue here. The OP is talking about fresh level 50's who are in mostly level 40ish PvE gear who didn't even bother to by Recruit gear.

[PalihoJ]

Honestly I'm not trolling I'm just amazed that so few people use the names.

I've done loads and loads of Alderaan WZ and always use "1 inc LS" or "2 inc Gen" or if I've been stealthed and I'm popping defensive CDs as I type "LS" or "GEN" and I've always got the appropriate assistance.....well not always occasionally nobody comes but we all know about those PUG teams when they are tunneled on DPSing an it didn't matter what you called it they wouldn't come to help.

 

Shall we start on Voidstar now with the which door is right and which is left.......

[UGLYMRJ]

or, you know, "3 W"..

 

i love getting the "incoming 3 w3455wwwdddawtrtkjtha"

 

sometimes, we don't need a full narrative of the incoming, what color shirts they're wearing, etc. just call out number and location..

 

I LOL'd... if someone has made it to level 50 and this is still doesn't know what 3 W is... I have no words. Or at least none that can be properly expressed on the forums without lots of these ****************** **** *********.

 

 

Shall we start on Voidstar now with the which door is right and which is left.......

 

What side was it on when you spawned?

 

Seriously... I want to clean my ears with a light saber for even commenting on this AGAIN. It shouldn't have been a topic with over 800 replies in the first place.... it definitely shouldn't be a topic now.

[sithterror]

So this doesn't work...

 

Here is why:

 

Top PvP guilds look for edges to make them competitive, they learn how to raid and clear content getting the best weapons. To compete at a high level you also then are forced to PvE to get PvP gear. This makes PvPers upset.

 

PvEers get upset because then you have PvPers flooding their groups who don't enjoy the PvE aspect. You get people like me in your raid that don't respect the talent level and min/max nerdism of the typical PvE dork and I usually sit around impatient begging people to pull because the crap is so easy.

 

IF you would assume that pure blood pvpers would NOT go after the top tier raid gear weapons and such then it would be ok. Yeah you would have the occasional PvE'er rolling in top gear but he most likely would still get rolled because PvEers are not used to the increased competitive nature of the game when it comes to PvP.

 

This happened in vanilla wow, this is the reason Blizzard invented the "different gear set" approach in the first place.

3 reasons to argue against it.

1. Blizzard knows new gear requires playtime, thus subscription revenue, and players will play to have new gear based off a dumb new stat.

 

2. Using GW2, you don't need special PvP vs PvE gear, u use what you got.

 

3. Sub 50 PvP doesn't use Expertise until the lv 40 weapons and that is so low who cares. Point is if you don't need expertise until post-50 why bother to have it all.

 

The whole argument of arse-hats joining your raid then you need a guild, bigger guild or ally with a raid guild to meet your needs. PvPrs can do thier thing for a fun time and different looking gear and PvErs can do thiers and both can each others.

[Kurfer]

Um dude...this thread was titled post here if you are numb, not post here if you are dumb.

[ISTrick]

Is this 'snow' and 'grass' thing in Alderaan a new designation for the nodes, I've only really noticed it over that last couple of weeks.

I still call them LS (for Landing Site) and Gen (for Generator)....Sorry is it just me or if you can't learn the name and location of 2 bases you should just quit.

 

Wow.... I go away for 2 weeks and the world turns to custard.

 

Sorry bro - you are the one in the wrong, it's either 'Grass' and 'Snow' or 'West' and 'East' - but never (unless the rules have changed since launch in the last 2 weeks) LS and Gen.

[Fdzzaigl]

5 months ago I tried getting people to fight next to the door panel on Voidstar.

 

"Remember guys, fight near the yellow door panel!"

"Profess your undying love for the yellow door panel!"

 

And of course, convince them that reports are a good thing.

 

Now I just shut up mostly.

[PalihoJ]

Wow.... I go away for 2 weeks and the world turns to custard.

 

Sorry bro - you are the one in the wrong, it's either 'Grass' and 'Snow' or 'West' and 'East' - but never (unless the rules have changed since launch in the last 2 weeks) LS and Gen.

 

Welcome back.

No ISTrick, I (small pause to build the tension) am not your brother....

I am in the wrong for calling a base by it's name and struggling to understand why the actual name of a base is not more widely used?

Rule? Rules? I don't remember reading any rule about the naming convention of the bases.

If someone calls Left/Right I'll come running to assist, if someone calls East/West (or E/W) I'll come running to assist, if someone calls Grass/Snow I'll come running to assist (less familiar with that one, in 6 months of playing on my old server I never saw it...only seen it since the transfers) but I will always call them LS and Gen.

[Elkirin]

It is fairly normal to get annoyed if other people appear to be doing stupid things or apparently refuse to wear even recruit gear.

 

It is hypocritical if you choose to leave because you have a few of these players "letting the team down" in your warzone. It is your dollar, BUT Please be honest with yourselves regarding who and what you really are.

Edited July 31, 2012 by Elkirin

[MoofKnight]

So this doesn't work...

 

Here is why:

 

Top PvP guilds look for edges to make them competitive, they learn how to raid and clear content getting the best weapons. To compete at a high level you also then are forced to PvE to get PvP gear. This makes PvPers upset.

 

PvEers get upset because then you have PvPers flooding their groups who don't enjoy the PvE aspect. You get people like me in your raid that don't respect the talent level and min/max nerdism of the typical PvE dork and I usually sit around impatient begging people to pull because the crap is so easy.

 

IF you would assume that pure blood pvpers would NOT go after the top tier raid gear weapons and such then it would be ok. Yeah you would have the occasional PvE'er rolling in top gear but he most likely would still get rolled because PvEers are not used to the increased competitive nature of the game when it comes to PvP.

 

This happened in vanilla wow, this is the reason Blizzard invented the "different gear set" approach in the first place.

 

Slightly off topic but, This.

 

It should never be a requirement to raid to be competitive at PvP and vice-versa, to PvP to be competitive at raiding.

 

However, I strongly believe that good PvP skills can greatly improve raiding skills (situational awareness, positioning...)

Edited July 31, 2012 by MoofKnight

[Darth_Philar]

Slightly off topic but, This.

 

It should never be a requirement to raid to be competitive at PvP and vice-versa, to PvP to be competitive at raiding.

 

However, I strongly believe that good PvP skills can greatly improve raiding skills (situational awareness, positioning...)

 

Those arguments you quoted all rely on a false dilemma logical fallacy and are therefore unsupportable.

 

Who said anything about needing raid gear? You can normalize gear (all top end gear has the same stats regardless of its source), you can normalize stats in PvP (i.e. the gear you wear is 100% ignored and all classes are given a base set of stats while in PvP areas), or you can experiment with a bevy of other concepts.

 

Fact is, carrot on a stick gear grinds are boring but addictive, which is why game companies use them to keep people paying month to month.

 

Personally, I'm enjoying playing through the single player storylines and doing the occasional Warzone. Once I'm done with all the stories I'll be looking at the CBA of continuing to pay to play this game, and grinding is a C, not a B.

Edited July 31, 2012 by Darth_Philar

[MoofKnight]

Those arguments you quoted all rely on a false dilemma logical fallacy and are therefore unsupportable.

 

Who said anything about needing raid gear? You can normalize gear (all top end gear has the same stats regardless of its source), you can normalize stats in PvP (i.e. the gear you wear is 100% ignored and all classes are given a base set of stats while in PvP areas), or you can experiment with a bevy of other concepts.

 

Fact is, carrot on a stick gear grinds are boring but addictive, which is why game companies use them to keep people paying month to month.

 

Personally, I'm enjoying playing through the single player storylines and doing the occasional Warzone. Once I'm done with all the stories I'll be looking at the CBA of continuing to pay to play this game, and grinding is a C, not a B.

 

I certainly didn't mention anything about needing raid gear. I simply agreed that you shouldn't need to PvE to be competitive at PvP and vice versa.

 

Also, " false dilemma logical fallacy" - so you agree with me then, based on your double negative?

 

Sensitive much?

Edited July 31, 2012 by MoofKnight

[Darth_Philar]

I certainly didn't mention anything about needing raid gear. I simply agreed that you shouldn't need to PvE to be competitive at PvP and vice versa.

 

Also, " false dilemma logical fallacy" - so you agree with me then, based on your double negative?

 

Sensitive much?

 

1. I was referring to the post you quoted, which stipulated that PvP gear is necessary in order to prevent people from needing to raid. This argument is a false dilemma as there are more than 2 scenarios.

 

2. "False Dilemma" is a name of a specific logical fallacy. "Logical Fallacy" is a name of an unsupportable error in logical reasoning. Neither of them are negatives, therefore, no double negative exists.

 

3. No. Talk much?

Edited July 31, 2012 by Darth_Philar