Why SWTOR is not a WoW Clone

[Ultrascorch]

I don't often read the forums (fora??) - generally only when I'm feeling bored. Had a browse today and still see this 'TOR is a WoW clone' floating around in a lot of the complaint-oriented threads. As a WoW player from launch until about 6 months ago, I thought I'd add my 2 cents to this.

 

Reasons why you might say TOR is WoW:

• The talent trees (and some class abilities) are embarrasingly similar to WoW-at-launch. I'm kind of split as to whether that was a straight lack of imagination from the designers, or the way the engine they decided to use was set up. If the MMO engine they were using was set up to have that style of talent trees, which strikes me as likely, then I'm not surprised that it ended up that way. Either way, it was TOR's biggest blunder, and they really needed to have shown a bucketload more creativity in how they handled talents and character growth.
  

 

Reasons why I think TOR is NOTHING LIKE WoW:

• 
  [*}Story: In WoW, it seems like 50% or more of the quests are shared between factions, and about 99% are shared between classes. In TOR, *all* quests are different between factions, so if you have played one character and haven't tried the other faction, then yes, you don't really have much right to say you have 'run out of content'. In addition, every class has an epic, world spanning storyline quest which is unique. Tired of quest grinding? Just do the unique class quests and PvP the rest of the time. WoW has nothing even remotely like this.
  
• Customization: I know some people have been frustrated over the character customization options, and I also agree that it could have been done a bit better. But honestly, I can make my Pureblood Sith Consular look basically like what I imagine in my head, and when I run around in TOR, even from level 1, I am thinking 'I look ******'. In WoW, all humans look ugly, and nobody sees you up close anyway so what's the point. Using slottable gear, I can make a look I like for my character early on in its progression, instead of looking like a clown for 40 levels. Very different from WoW.
  
• Voice: My character talks! And he sounds cool! He's your avatar in the world, it only makes sense he represents you in voice as well as body. I still smile when my republic Sith makes light side choices, and everyone is lol'ing that the Sith chooses light and the rest of the group all go dark. There are story and social dynamics linked to having that voice and the choices that go with it that don't even slightly exist in WoW.
  
• Legacy: In WoW, my characters have no relationship to each other, apart from being able to mail each other items. In SWTOR, my character gains the buffs of my alts, can use some signature abilities of my alts on boss fights (particularly fun when you are 2-manning a 4-man heroic and pull out the force lightning and legacy project), and get quality of life and progression perks that my alts have earned. Correct me if I am wrong, but this is huge and WoW has nothing like it.
  
• Companions: This is the thing I can't understand. TOR gives you a stable of 5 fully equippable pets, which talk to you, fight for you, gather resources for you, and make stuff for you. Story-wise, they have personalities and preferences. Admittedly they were more fun in KoTOR when you could turn them light-side or dark-side, and/or unlock force powers in them.
  The point is, though, how on Earth is this even slighly like WoW? Ok, warlocks and hunters get pets, but they are hardly customizable. They get some cookie-cutter talents in the case of hunters (there's an idea, Bioware), but that's it. No gear, customizations, nothing. Bioware has done something completely different and given us a stable of companions which interact with our character's stories and open up a huge number of tactical possibilities when soloing and playing in small groups. It even makes it possible to run group content if you are down a man. What does WoW offer in this area?
  

 

As you can see, I am as embarrassed for Bioware as anyone over the class talents. The design is archaic and seriously lacking imagination. And I believe it is the only legitimate reason people claim TOR is like WoW. Had that been done differently, things might have been different.

 

However, in balance, TOR offers a completely different experience from WoW in a huge number of ways. It is doing things that other MMOs simply do not even pretend to try, and doing them well.

[cipero]

Well you point out good ways they are not similar. However, I think what most people mean when they refer to SWToR as a wow-clone is the basic setup of the game. level->reach max level->gear grind. Mostly the gear grind element. MMOs before wow have used this setup, wow just made it popular. "Wow-clone" is basically referring to industry standard. At least that's what I believe.

 

I'm glad you enjoy the differences tho, you should. Bioware is great at making storylines, always has been.

[Briq]

the mechanics of the game tho are very WoW like... not saying that's a good or bad thing. the story, voice, legacy, and companions(in grp play) are really just fluff. and in the case of the companions, that is the biggest thing that leads people to the single player statements, it does nothing to promote grp play AT ALL. and as a very recent forum thread pointed out, the voice and story get space-barred out after the 1st run thru of any encounter.

 

believe me, I loved the fluff, but it's not enough to keep me playing.

 

as a positive note, the greatest thing this game did(IMHO) was make the companions able to craft and sell trash. that was pure genius.

Edited July 29, 2012 by Briq

[Valkirus]

Yeah..it is a lot different than WoW is. You will never find a post I have made here saying TOR was a WoW clone. It is not good enough to be one.

[denpic]

Yeah better term is industry standard mmo

And is one of the reasons I like swtor comming from wow I didn't have to learn to

Play the game as in targeting movement and ability usage How the trees worked Etc

[Cordelia]

as a positive note, the greatest thing this game did(IMHO) was make the companions able to craft and sell trash. that was pure genius.

 

To me that is one of the worst aspects of the game. In every single other MMO I have ever played I spent a huge amount of time crafting. In this game I found it so dull and boring having companions to do it that I quit it totally. That's unheard of for me. I guess it depends how involved you like to be in the crafting process, I'm sure for your average player having companions do it is a nice idea.

 

Then again no game has managed a decent crafting system since SWG.

Edited July 29, 2012 by Cordelia

[Talon_strikes]

Well you point out good ways they are not similar. However, I think what most people mean when they refer to SWToR as a wow-clone is the basic setup of the game. level->reach max level->gear grind. Mostly the gear grind element. MMOs before wow have used this setup, wow just made it popular. "Wow-clone" is basically referring to industry standard. At least that's what I believe.

 

I'm glad you enjoy the differences tho, you should. Bioware is great at making storylines, always has been.

QFT.

 

Sorry but I have to say the basic setup of the game makes this game a WoW clone only in that sense. You go level, then reach max level and grind a lot for gear.

 

I'm actually really glad how you distinguished how SWTOR is now a WoW clone, though! Kudos, OP!

[Briq]

To me that is one of the worst aspects of the game. In every single other MMO I have ever played I spent a huge amount of time crafting. In this game I found it so dull and boring having companions to do it that I quit it totally. That's unheard of for me. I guess it depends how involved you like to be in the crafting process, I'm sure for your average player having companions do it is a nice idea.

 

Then again no game has managed a decent crafting system since SWG.

 

I agree that this is really a personal preference.. I've always hated crafting and was always lucky enough to get my wife to craft for me LOL

[Cordelia]

I agree that this is really a personal preference.. I've always hated crafting and was always lucky enough to get my wife to craft for me LOL

 

Sounds like me and my other half lol. I'm not sure why some of us love involved crafting , for me it was always the satisfaction of making something . Like in SWG I would see my furniture in peoples houses, or even my buildings in player cities. Only pixels I know but it still felt like you created something to give to the community.

[Ultrascorch]

and in the case of the companions, that is the biggest thing that leads people to the single player statements, it does nothing to promote grp play AT ALL.

 

Or one could make the point that since companions make it possible to solo efficiently as either a tank or healer (since you can offload a lot of your dps responsiblity to your companion), it promotes a greater balance in the population of the three roles and allows for easier group formation in endgame.

[Diktat]

When one game mimics the basics and mechanics of another game is a clone of that game.

[SRTtoZZ]

I agree. Also people need to realize WoW does a lot of things REALLY good so taking certain things from WoW isnt a bad thing. Would you rather Bioware came up with new ways to implement talent trees but was worse than how they are doing it now? I know I wouldnt... Edited July 29, 2012 by SRTtoZZ

[SRTtoZZ]

When one game mimics the basics and mechanics of another game is a clone of that game.

 

So all platforming games are a clone of another game? All puzzle games are clones of other games? and all RTS games are clones of other games? and so on and so on?. Ok gotcha.

Edited July 29, 2012 by SRTtoZZ

[Lt_Latency]

It's doesn't matter if your a clone or not if you are better then the original.

[Diktat]

So all platforming games are a clone of another game? All puzzle games are clones of other games? and all RTS games are clones of other games? and so on and so on?. Ok gotcha.

You are mismatching genre with mechanics, and I'm sure you are smart enough to see the difference.

[Reble-Dog-Squad]

If anyone wants to compare SWTOR with WOW they might want to look at this review first,

 

World of Warcraft review 2004

 

And

 

Star Wars: The Old Republic 2012

Edited July 29, 2012 by Reble-Dog-Squad

[LogunOne]

Op, you’re right it’s not a WoW clone its worse than a WoW clone! I’ll try and make this as constructive as possible but IMHO there’s allot here that needs fixed.

How is it the same …

Trinity

Click and cool down combat

Skill trees

Quests are just Kill, Gather, deliver or defend just like WoW

2 faction system

Boring repeatable Daily quests

Easy Level to endgame, then Skinner box grind for gear

 

So as you can see when you strip away the presentation the core foundation of the game play is very WoW like.

But how did they make it worse….

 

Bloated travel system ….elevator …to space ship… to load screen…to space station …to shuttle ride… to planet …. Put gun to head pull trigger ….LOL

Likely the intermediary steps in the travel system are to keep the story point flags from braking this might fly in a single player game but it’s a kiss of death if you need your game to make it easy for people to group up and get things done.

 

Story works against the MMO bits…..players get caught up in the story and forget their in a MMO, they can move faster through story point completion then if they work with other players.

 

Story adds to player separation…. The trinity and level range in most MMO’s already add a layer of division to the players you can group with now add in a class story that give them completely separate quests and often takes players to different planets and you just add to the problem instead of fixing it.

 

Static World … The world is even more static them WoW, rarely do you ever see a roving mob with 90% of them just standing in a fixed position waiting for them to get tagged.

 

Linear Game Play ….The game is even more linear then WoW, your story quests taking you from Planet A…to… B…to ...C…to…D ….all the way to 50.

 

Planet size …. There too big for the amount of players the servers can support making the worlds feel void of players, and there’s allot of nothing very interesting in them between the quest points.

 

Quest Objective competiveness, …why in 2012 are players still competing for quest objectives. Why de-spawn them upon uses? This seems like a broke Mechanic to me, or is this just a time sink?

 

City Planets ….. Ahaaaaaaaaaa….anyone else tiered of the same cut and paste hallways that weave around like rat mazes?

 

Heroic Zones….are a big fail, and mostly avoided because they are either buried deep into the zone or just unrewarding to be bothered with. These were supposed to be the introduction to group play mechanics but instead they’re just a waist of space.

 

Bioware Story….but not really….all the consequence has been removed and regardless of your decisions in the end there is no permanent effect to your character. Even light side /dark side points can be undone by a bit of daily grinding, however there’s not much point in that because it only affects the gear you can equip and the equivalent can always be found regardless.

 

Legacy …. Is how bioware spells “Money Sink” …. It’s cute but outside of a few quality of life rewards that should be in the game for free it’s just a way to get the glut of credits out of the game.

 

Companions … I would say thanks bioware for the crafting bots if crafting was useful for something.

 

Dead end Crafting, …this was sad,… crafting has all the potential to be great but at end game it dies miserably the orange armor you craft are just butt ugly and stat wise the epics are a joke for the effort and cost of learning the schematics ….they should rename us upgrade slot venders.

 

So there you have it, Bioware managed to break the MMO genre even further instead of saying hey …why do so many MMO players choose to solo, and how do we get people interested in working together instead of introducing new ways to drive them apart.

 

 

I’ll just add one other thing…. After playing WoW and coming to Swtor what new mechanic did you feel you had to learn to play Swtor?

Edited July 29, 2012 by LogunOne

[DarthCDiv]

Or one could make the point that since companions make it possible to solo efficiently as either a tank or healer (since you can offload a lot of your dps responsiblity to your companion), it promotes a greater balance in the population of the three roles and allows for easier group formation in endgame.

 

Lol o'rly? Do you often solo flashpoints or operations with just your companions?

[Cuillin]

Does anyone realise THERE WERE MANY OTHER MMO'S BEFORE WOW EXISTED?! It's not the be all and end all. It's just the most popular title and brought the genre to a huge amount of whining kids.

[DarthCDiv]

Does anyone realise THERE WERE MANY OTHER MMO'S BEFORE WOW EXISTED?! It's not the be all and end all. It's just the most popular title and brought the genre to a huge amount of whining kids.

 

Industry standard.

[LogunOne]

Industry standard.

 

But industry standard for what? ....a MMO .....are todays MMO's even MMO's anymore?

 

This sort of sums it up for me....I think its time for a new set of MMO Industry standards.

Edited July 29, 2012 by LogunOne

[Thuggy]

Whether or not SWTOR is a Wow clone, a EQ clone...a generic industry standard mmo is completely irrelevant, and it's an argument I'm a bit tired of hearing.

 

There is only 1 question you need to ask: Is SWTOR a good game in your opinion?

 

If yes, fantastic! Play it and enjoy it. Who cares about anything else?

If no...that's unfortunate, I suggest you find a game that better suits your tastes, however constructive feedback as to why is always a good thing

[Elmillia]

Why TOR is a WoW clone:

 

Similar engine.

Similar questing system.

Very little branching in questing

Very little effect on the world while questing.

No customization

No player housing support

Pets (Called Companions in TOR)

Overfocus on endgame, and zones in between are rarely used. (Belsavis is the exception)

Lame Warzone system. (Called Battlegrounds in WoW)

Character's are templates, not sliders like in SWG or STO.

Guild system is very limited, mirroring Pre-Guild achievement WoW.

The way conversations have been done (TOR) is just another format for the quest text (WoW). There is no real difference.

No lasting impact. If I kill someone in chapter 1, it doesn't affect my story in chapter 3.

Resources for crafting are nodes laying around the world, instead of doing a farm like system like in LOTRO.

Hotkey based combat

 

I think there's more but my fingers now hurt.

 

In my opinion, ALL of these points need to be addressed (Except for the pet system because that's not important. It's fine as it is)

Edited July 29, 2012 by Elmillia

[kirorx]

Your points are valid, the controls and the over mechanics though is what makes it so much clone like, The way the sith warrior plays is identical to the warrior in wow. Heck i think the X and Z keys both sit or pull out weapon, very much the same.

 

It was obvious from the moment i first logged in.