Can you snipers keep up with PT and Marauder numbers in OPs

[TheRiddick]

I have been trying spec after spec, trying to get the same damage numbers as a PT and marauder in HM denova, and i cannot pull it off... By this i mean literally 200k more damage at the end of the fight. Are you having the same problem? if not, what spec are you running, rotations, ect.

 

This has been bugging me. During the fight with Toth/Zorn one of the melee always has to come help the 2 snipers. I am running lethality as it is the easiest sustained damage with the movement we have to do. I put up about 1300 dps and have no energy issues. I feel i have the rotations down. any input would be of help. I hope i am not the only one seeing the huge gap in damage output from the sniper compared to PT/Marauder.

[Lithy]

in PvP, yes, but it's difficult. I don't PvE very much so can't tell you there...sorry.

[TheRiddick]

in PvP, yes, but it's difficult. I don't PvE very much so can't tell you there...sorry.

 

yeah PvP is perfectly fine... Its ops that i see the huge disparagement. I love my sniper in pvp. hate its guts in PvE

[chuixupu]

In my raid, we put the melee on Toth, and since they have to run out a lot, I end up switching to help them out most often. I'm pretty sure all the marauders and PTs we've had have not been exactly tops, though. They've never shared their actual numbers with me.

[NotRonin]

It's hard to give suggestion without seeing the log. Does everyone have the same level of gear? Are the DPS put in the same group for the marauders for the 15% damage buff?

 

The best Lethality sniper I know parse around 1700 for Denova HM. While he is still behind the marauder and powertech in his guild, it's not by far, and definitely not 200k.

[NoTomorrow]

Are you using orbital strikes in your rotation? Do you have the pvp set bonus for them? By activating power relics and adrenals you can time your OS with normal rotation for increased damage. This thing alone should improve your dps tremendously.

 

If you are MM dont stop dpsing in aoe phase, use instant snipes and ft. Its fast enough so you dont risk getting lilled by staying in one placebfor too long.

[CJNJ]

You mentioned there were 2 snipers, are both of u speced for lethality? I doubt u are but I've still see it happen.

[Shecrazy]

Long story short yes, snipers are the 2nd highest dps class after marauders. Since snipers are ranged and thus have very little downtime so they tend to out dmg marauders. Despite what you'll read all classes are within 5% of each others dps and are all viable. Differences you're seeing are based on gear / skill.

 

We would need far more insight to help you out to see whats wrong, anything from your rotation, to your gear, to what you're actually doing during a fight (more important than just the basic rotation) can drastically change your dmg done.

 

In full rakata you should be able to push 1500-1600 dps on a dummy without augments if your gear is modded correctly and you're doing everything right.

[Truescopes]

We are in a very good place in pve especially in lethality spec. I'm in a big guild that's cleared 16man HM EC and I get the highest damage on every fight as a sniper, above the marauders/powertechs.

What exactly is your rotation if you don't mind me asking? 1,300 seems quite low for lethality.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Truescopes

[TheRiddick]

I appreciate the suggestions, I am at work so i will try to put out my rotation best i can out of memory

 

I am full rakata geared. as is our PT the marauder is full BH, so there is a difference there (yet the Pt can keep up, its silly)

 

My Main rotation:

corrosive dart

weakening blast (regens a bit of energy)

Corrosive grenade

Power Relic or Crit relic depending on energy needs

Cull

acquire target

Series of Shots

Laze Target

Snipe

Cull

Corrosive Dart

Weakening Blast

Corrosive Grenade

crit adrenal

Cull

Series of Shots

etc

 

Any suggestions Would be of help. I use snipe only when laze target is up, i save my crit relic for energy needs also whenever my orbital strike is available i am using that as well... I have created a new hybrid build that i feel can increase my dps but MoX parser is no longer working. so if you know of any other parsers i would be appreciative.

[NotRonin]

If you're using 'stock Rakata', there is no way you'll keep up with a BH geared DPS. There are a lot of mods and enhancement you need to swap out, and you should have a few pieces of BH mod/enhancements slotted into your Rakata by now.

 

A few more things. :

 

* Remove snipe off your rotation, even when Laze Target is up. Use Ambush instead.

* Corrosive Grenade last 21 second, Corrosive Dart last 18 (with talent), so Corrosive Grenade should be used before Corrosive Dart.

* Watch your energy level instead of following a rotation when using Series of Shot/Ambush. When energy is low, use rifle shot instead.

* Critical Adrenal is nowhere as good as power adrenal, It is far better to adopt a better rotation rather than using it to regen energy.

* The constant power relic will win out for long fights. However, you may want to switch to the 2 minute relic for fights involving burst (bombers, SoA, Fabricator, etc).

* If you can use weakening blast(31 pts) , it's not a hybrid build.

[hyperdragon]

I'm lethality sniper and can only put up about ~1300 DPS, granted im not using the BM set bonuses, mostly because i only have one BM set and use it for pvp, and i understand that shoots down DPS a bit. I use the stock rakata with columi head boots and wrist, my gloves are BH mods, with WH trapper implant, BH trapper earpiece and rakata enforcer implant and my two relics are the champion power ones, and my rifle is the BM sniper rifle. This is my parser and I myself (like the OP) would like a bit of advice so that I would be able to keep up with the marauder and sniper in my group. when i think about it, i should get to work with getting BH stuff with my tank and healer to help gear out this character, but the ways to get BH stuff can get boring.

 

 

btw i think this is what people are asking from the OP as well (but i'd like pointers too)

[TheRiddick]

If you're using 'stock Rakata', there is no way you'll keep up with a BH geared DPS. There are a lot of mods and enhancement you need to swap out, and you should have a few pieces of BH mod/enhancements slotted into your Rakata by now.

 

A few more things. :

 

* Remove snipe off your rotation, even when Laze Target is up. Use Ambush instead.

* Corrosive Grenade last 21 second, Corrosive Dart last 18 (with talent), so Corrosive Grenade should be used before Corrosive Dart.

* Watch your energy level instead of following a rotation when using Series of Shot/Ambush. When energy is low, use rifle shot instead.

* Critical Adrenal is nowhere as good as power adrenal, It is far better to adopt a better rotation rather than using it to regen energy.

* The constant power relic will win out for long fights. However, you may want to switch to the 2 minute relic for fights involving burst (bombers, SoA, Fabricator, etc).

* If you can use weakening blast(31 pts) , it's not a hybrid build.

 

I dont use weakening blast in my new hybrid... its an engineering lethality mix... the rotation was for my lethality build i have been running in the ops up to about 2 days ago. also I am not keeping up with the Power-tech who is equally geared either... yet he keeps up with the BH marauder... see the problem here lol i wouldn't mind not keeping up to people that way out-gear me but i cant even keep up with a power-tech who still doesn't even have his mainhand weapon.

Edited July 25, 2012 by TheRiddick

[Jonespiano]

I play a 31/5/5 MM build:

 

http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/imperial_agent/sniper/#::f2ef9ef8e5fefe10f14ef4ef:

 

I use the 4 piece PvE Field Tech set bonus. I usually don't use Orbital Strike in single-target fights unless I'm waiting on all my other cooldowns and I've got AP up. I have a Columi Crit+Surge relic and Matrix Cube, working on dailies to get a Campaign proc on attack relic. The rest of my gear is Rakata with a Black Hole earpiece and headpiece, and every piece augmented; the only other thing I could still use is a rating 140 barrel as I have a 136. I have a Rakata Skill Stim and a Rakata Critical Adrenal, but I think I will switch to a Power adrenal.

 

In EC SM, I parsed 1083 DPS over the whole of the Kephess fight, including the downtime when there was no target to attack. Against the Siege Droids I did 1546, though I think there is a debuff in play at some point because I had an Ambush hit for 7204 right at the end, which is about 2000 more than usual. Against Colonel Vargath at the end of the Minesweeper puzzle, a very long fight which I recall required only a little movement, I did 1349 dps.

 

This for a moderately skilled Sniper in OK gear, not amazing, and not using the ideal relic and adrenal. There was nothing in the raid that felt harder for an MM to pull off than any other ranged class, and with all the target-switching on Kephess, I felt like I would actually have had a much harder time as Lethality due to the setup time and energy cost associated with porting over to another target - to say nothing of something like an Arsenal Mercenary which has even more setup before it's doing optimal damage. I could have used the points in Engineering in some fights for the stronger Orbital Strike, but overall, I think the points in extra Alacrity were beneficial in a non-small way. A tenth of a second per 1.5 seconds adds up quickly when you're using Series of Shots, Rapid Fire and Ambush on cooldown, and if it means I can get an extra attack in the hole before I have to move again or the boss' vulnerability period ends, then the points were worth it.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Jonespiano

[NotRonin]

I'm lethality sniper and can only put up about ~1300 DPS, granted im not using the BM set bonuses, mostly because i only have one BM set and use it for pvp, and i understand that shoots down DPS a bit. I use the stock rakata with columi head boots and wrist, my gloves are BH mods, with WH trapper implant, BH trapper earpiece and rakata enforcer implant and my two relics are the champion power ones, and my rifle is the BM sniper rifle. This is my parser and I myself (like the OP) would like a bit of advice so that I would be able to keep up with the marauder and sniper in my group. when i think about it, i should get to work with getting BH stuff with my tank and healer to help gear out this character, but the ways to get BH stuff can get boring.

 

 

btw i think this is what people are asking from the OP as well (but i'd like pointers too)

 

21 Cull, but 14 SoS. That just isn't right. There were also 44 rifle shots, which is way too many, and is an indication that your rotation have energy issues.

 

Change your rotation to something more standard.

 

CG -> CD -> WB -> Cull -> Ambush -> Sos (if you have energy), otheriwse rifle shot -> Cull

 

Then rifle shot until you've regained enough energy. Ambush with Orbital Strike if it is up. That should improve your DPS substantially.

 

As to Leth/Eng, that is what I have used for a long time. Full Lethality will do more single target damage, however it is great at trash clearing with frag grenade. (3K + crit). I use a Leth/Eng 23/18 build, with points put into the 30% extra critical damage for AoE.

 

An example of my parse doing NMM KP (I heal EC HM for my guild, so I don't have any sniper data on EC HM). Not one piece of campaign gear, Rakata mainhand, Columi offhand, still using Rakata power mods for 4 peices, head armor is still Rakata, and body armor piece is only columi. (switched onto a Champion body piece for the PvP bonus.)

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/4971

 

Look at the last fight, I managed 1756 dps on Karraga. There was a MM sniper in that raid as well, similarly geared . We were dead even on damage.

[Astoncam]

Nope i can't, before 1.3 i always have the 1st position on the parser.

 

Now, i cant be the 1st on EC HM:

 

1st boss: Maybe 1st with a bit luck (no damage reduction debuffs, no fearful) 1: Sentinels/Vanguards/Gunslingers

2st boss: Impossible be the 1st. / 1 Sentinels 2 Vanguards 3 Gunslingers

3rd boss: It depends: 1 Vanguards/Gunslingers (AOE) 2 Sentinels

4th boss: Depends. Yesterday i scored my best record with 1591,4dps and i've placed 2nd. 1st was a Vanguard with a little more than a 1% of advantage from me.

 

I'm playing on DF (Lethality for imps) with my gear 90-100% min/maxed.

[Truescopes]

I appreciate the suggestions, I am at work so i will try to put out my rotation best i can out of memory

 

I am full rakata geared. as is our PT the marauder is full BH, so there is a difference there (yet the Pt can keep up, its silly)

 

My Main rotation:

corrosive dart

weakening blast (regens a bit of energy)

Corrosive grenade

Power Relic or Crit relic depending on energy needs

Cull

acquire target

Series of Shots

Laze Target

Snipe

Cull

Corrosive Dart

Weakening Blast

Corrosive Grenade

crit adrenal

Cull

Series of Shots

etc

 

Any suggestions Would be of help. I use snipe only when laze target is up, i save my crit relic for energy needs also whenever my orbital strike is available i am using that as well... I have created a new hybrid build that i feel can increase my dps but MoX parser is no longer working. so if you know of any other parsers i would be appreciative.

 

Keep to this rotation:

 

CD > CG > Weakening blast > Cull > Series of Shots > Ambush/Orbital Strike > Cull.

 

Add in a rifle shot before the weakening blast when re-applying. When using cooldowns use them before the first cull and you choose between ambush and orbital depending on your energy etc. Also, get yourself a power adrenal etc as it is better and you shouldn't have any energy problems with this rotation.

 

I get 1,900~ Dps on the dummy in pretty much BiS gear like this.

 

It's a really simple rotation.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Truescopes

[Truescopes]

Nope i can't, before 1.3 i always have the 1st position on the parser.

 

Now, i cant be the 1st on EC HM:

 

1st boss: Maybe 1st with a bit luck (no damage reduction debuffs, no fearful) 1: Sentinels/Vanguards/Gunslingers

2st boss: Impossible be the 1st. / 1 Sentinels 2 Vanguards 3 Gunslingers

3rd boss: It depends: 1 Vanguards/Gunslingers (AOE) 2 Sentinels

4th boss: Depends. Yesterday i scored my best record with 1591,4dps and i've placed 2nd. 1st was a Vanguard with a little more than a 1% of advantage from me.

 

I'm playing on DF (Lethality for imps) with my gear 90-100% min/maxed.

 

What sort of dps numbers do you put up on each? I'm probably similarly mix/maxed and I am top for all 4 at the moment in my guild.

[Hardcora]

Truescopes, can you please link or PM your Mr.Robot profile please.

[hyperdragon]

21 Cull, but 14 SoS. That just isn't right. There were also 44 rifle shots, which is way too many, and is an indication that your rotation have energy issues.

 

Change your rotation to something more standard.

 

CG -> CD -> WB -> Cull -> Ambush -> Sos (if you have energy), otheriwse rifle shot -> Cull

 

Then rifle shot until you've regained enough energy. Ambush with Orbital Strike if it is up. That should improve your DPS substantially.

 

should i be using shatter shot? because as im doing target dummy i notice shatter shot takes a bit of energy from me other than that, my rotation is almost exactly like what you said

[Truescopes]

Truescopes, can you please link or PM your Mr.Robot profile please.

 

Yeah, http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/b9dcf356-3fd1-4820-9d0b-13083110398a.

 

I just updated it after not doing it for a while and it must be bugged or something, everything is correct except I am missing some cunning which also increases the crit slightly (Just use that for the stats for now http://i.imgur.com/wws5V.jpg). I might just be being dumb but I can't tell where it's missing from :>

Edited July 25, 2012 by Truescopes

[NotRonin]

should i be using shatter shot? because as im doing target dummy i notice shatter shot takes a bit of energy from me other than that, my rotation is almost exactly like what you said

 

If you're using the rotation suggested, the number of SoS should have less than half of Cull. 21 Cull but 41 SoS means something is seriously wrong.

 

The parse is over 300 seconds, In 5 minutes, there should be 30 Cull, 10-13 SoS and 5 Orbital strikes. (Can use OS with SoS in conjunction with adrenaline probe). There should also be 15 weakening blast instead of 13. Everything points to a seriously messed up rotation.

 

If you prefer to use 'whatever is up' rather than follow a rotation, then Full Engineering will be a better fit.