cyvaris Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Okay so for once can we all be sort of positive? What classes need to be buffed or adjusted upwards to bring them to the same level as the so perceived Flavor of the Month classes? What can be done to fix the Scoundrel/Operative? What do Trooper/BH healers need to be competitive? How can the underplayed specs be brought up to par? Personally I think a second vanish ability, that gives a X speed boost, and only lasts 3-4 seconds would be a great ability to give tot he Scoundrel/Operative. It works as an effective gap closer in PvP, gives them the benefits of their stealth abilities in PvE, and would stop people complaining about the Sentinel/Marauder stealth. Make it boost speed by 50% untalented and then (if trees are redone) a way to talent it to 65/80% or so. Anyone else have anything constructive and positive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBSIP Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 commando and mercenary healers are fine, DPS is where the issue is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinsavz Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Just posted this in a thread on the merc forum funnily enough, but I'll put it here too. Our heals are decent enough atm so I don't know why you've included that in the OP. It's the DPS specs that are lame. Pyro - 100% combustible proc chance on powershot. Bodyguard - Nothing essential, but a bit of a buff or change to kolto residue which is a lame talent atm. Arsenal - Shift the bodyguard talent that makes you immune to interrupts whilst energy shield is up to a lower, accessible tier so all mercs can take it. Our biggest problem is, if someone decides to kill us, they will kill us. We are basically free kills when someone notices us. Giving us this short window to at least try to fightback would help all mercs bigtime, but especially Arsenals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blasphemerr Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I'd give sorcerer healers some lovin', I'm not sure what, but you know, lovin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyvaris Posted July 23, 2012 Author Share Posted July 23, 2012 ^Ehh I was in a QQ thread and heard someone mention their heals being weak so I figured why not. I actually find their heals to be rather good, and my guilds rated team is more then happy to leave one all alone on a node in any point capture game. I like those changes to Merc though. I think really they just need to get Flameburst like the Powertechs and all would be gravy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blasphemerr Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 sorcerer healer: Our heals are so good you'll let us solo-guard objectives. Brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyvaris Posted July 23, 2012 Author Share Posted July 23, 2012 (edited) Whoops....you posted while I was posting! I was talking bout Trooper heals...not Sage/Sorc, those are terrible . @Arsenal Merc-that would help a bit, but realistically I feel the whole entire tree needs to go and be redone. Ranged can be a turret yes, but not THAT much of a turret. Edited July 23, 2012 by cyvaris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blasphemerr Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I'm not sure how good merc healers are because the second their 1.2 nerf was announced all six of them in my guild quit. No jokes. They're pretty darn rare these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islander Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Sorcs need love on both ends of the spectrum. - burst DPS is lacking. I thought we were glass cannons? more like butterknives. - healing itself is OK, save for again, absolute absence of anything resembling enough DPS to at least make one advesary work to kill us. Unless you count running away for 15 seconds making them work. The class just doesn't scream 'powerful' in any sense of the word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islander Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I'm not sure how good merc healers are because the second their 1.2 nerf was announced all six of them in my guild quit. No jokes. They're pretty darn rare these days. Yeah, I seldom see them in warzones, and I play 7-8 a night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheronFett Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Not every class is meant to be damage based. 99.5% of the people posting on the PvP forum still fail to realize that simple fact. And because it's so simple, I'll explain it (again). Classes are balanced around 4 aspects of combat: Damage Defense Healing Utility Pick one. Yes, only one. Your class and spec is good at ONE of the above. ALL classes have 3 of 4 on this list, but expect diminishing returns. Everyone wants damage in PvP. I see a lot of Juggs especially complaining about their damage output being subpar to other classes of supposed "similar" specs. Not the case. Juggs are: 1 - Utility 2 - Damage or Defense (depending on spec) 3 - Damage or Defense (depending on spec) 4 - Healing Yes, Juggs are a Utility first class. Breaking news to many, but it's true. The defensive cooldowns coupled with the control offered in any spec explains the balance around this class NOT focusing on damage first. Those who constantly complain about balance don't seem to understand what their own class really has to offer and playing it to its strengths. Being good at PvP is not about putting up huge damage numbers. It's about winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macabrae Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 (edited) Okay so for once can we all be sort of positive? What classes need to be buffed or adjusted upwards to bring them to the same level as the so perceived Flavor of the Month classes? What can be done to fix the Scoundrel/Operative? What do Trooper/BH healers need to be competitive? How can the underplayed specs be brought up to par? Personally I think a second vanish ability, that gives a X speed boost, and only lasts 3-4 seconds would be a great ability to give tot he Scoundrel/Operative. It works as an effective gap closer in PvP, gives them the benefits of their stealth abilities in PvE, and would stop people complaining about the Sentinel/Marauder stealth. Make it boost speed by 50% untalented and then (if trees are redone) a way to talent it to 65/80% or so. Anyone else have anything constructive and positive? Scoundrel/Operative already have more CC abilities then anyone and can get ppl to over half their health while the target is CCed. They need absolutely no buffs of any kind, in fact they may still be too strong but since I never advocate nerfs I think other classes need buffed against them. BH healers do seem to be under par compared to the other healers...they probably need a buff of some kind. My Two Cents Edited July 23, 2012 by Macabrae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islander Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 (edited) Not every class is meant to be damage based. 99.5% of the people posting on the PvP forum still fail to realize that simple fact. And because it's so simple, I'll explain it (again). Classes are balanced around 4 aspects of combat: Damage Defense Healing Utility Pick one. Yes, only one. Your class and spec is good at ONE of the above. ALL classes have 3 of 4 on this list, but expect diminishing returns. Everyone wants damage in PvP. I see a lot of Juggs especially complaining about their damage output being subpar to other classes of supposed "similar" specs. Not the case. Juggs are: 1 - Utility 2 - Damage or Defense (depending on spec) 3 - Damage or Defense (depending on spec) 4 - Healing Yes, Juggs are a Utility first class. Breaking news to many, but it's true. The defensive cooldowns coupled with the control offered in any spec explains the balance around this class NOT focusing on damage first. Those who constantly complain about balance don't seem to understand what their own class really has to offer and playing it to its strengths. Being good at PvP is not about putting up huge damage numbers. It's about winning. Maras/Sents have both burst DPS and defense. Oh and most classes have utility in some means or another. Operatives/Smugglers have DPS and massive utility. You're also assuming Juggs/Guardians/Vanguards/Guardians are all tank specs. No. DPS spec sorcerers have....nothing. nice try though. Edited July 23, 2012 by islander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLordMaster Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 1. DPS Mercs 2. All Sorc Specs 3. Concealment Operatives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diefexor Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Maras/Sents have both burst DPS and defense. Oh and most classes have utility in some means or another. Operatives/Smugglers have DPS and massive utility. You're also assuming Juggs/Guardians/Vanguards/Guardians are all tank specs. No. DPS spec sorcerers have....nothing. nice try though. Sorc have nothing? ROFL.... talk about a nice try! You must be the kid that thinks mages need buffz in WoW. All the sorcs i play with have no problem topping dps/healing charts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diefexor Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Game is pretty well balanced imo. People become sad pandas if they cant top the dps/heal charts even though they can still contribute, in often more important rolls, then just facerolling buttons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islander Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Sorc have nothing? ROFL.... talk about a nice try! You must be the kid that thinks mages need buffz in WoW. All the sorcs i play with have no problem topping dps/healing charts. Topping DPS charts doesn't equal having the ability to actually burst down someone one on one. This, specifically, is my gripe. I know some quality sorc who can spread around 300-350k damage in a full voidstar. It's by spreading dots everywhere, instead of actually eliminating someone. No, the mages in WoW could melt your face off with two buttons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenzali Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Sorc have nothing? ROFL.... talk about a nice try! You must be the kid that thinks mages need buffz in WoW. All the sorcs i play with have no problem topping dps/healing charts. That's because they're using DoTs, HoTs, and weak AoEs. Basically things that eventually add up to a lot but never actually kill anyone or save a teammate from dying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zElmTree Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 simple. Commando/merc needs some sort of buff. Dps. Maybe a cc that doesn't heal the target for starters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islander Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 simple. Commando/merc needs some sort of buff. Dps. Maybe a cc that doesn't heal the target for starters... He's right, they really do need something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rompdomp Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Sorc have nothing? ROFL.... talk about a nice try! You must be the kid that thinks mages need buffz in WoW. All the sorcs i play with have no problem topping dps/healing charts. I tend to agree with you. Sorc healing output is fine (hell prob the highest pure healer output in the game when left alone). Honestly the only real issue is that its a kiting class that has to stop and hard cast a heal with a long cast time. If they had the ability to make their main heal cast quicker (maybe via a proc) or some kind of lower powered instant cast heal the class would be in a solid spot. Some sort of a defensive cd would go along way too, but nothing too extreme the class is meant to be squishy. As far as dps goes madness and the hybrid specs are solid they just lack burst. That being said I really think all madness needs is a bit more force efficiency. Its got so much control and mobility already. As far as dot protection goes, aren't other sorc/sages the only class whose dispel removes force effects? (the actual 5 sec cd cleanse, not the harmful effects removing cd's) . DPS sorcs have utility, control, steady damage, and are prob the best dps off healers. When your healer is getting focused and eats a stun 2 dark heals spammed on him go along way (especially if hes guarded and ppl are throwing taunts at his attackers). Overall I like how the sorc plays, its frantic and fast paced. You got to be on your game and time your **** right because you are literally on the verge of getting dropped all the time. You die allot, but when your on and your playing everything smoothly its an addicting class. I think the problem ppl have with the class is it not a particularly self sufficient class. You are dependent on your teammates allot more than allot of the other classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islander Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 (edited) Overall I like how the sorc plays, its frantic and fast paced. You got to be on your game and time your **** right because you are literally on the verge of getting dropped all the time. You die allot, but when your on and your playing everything smoothly its an addicting class. I think the problem ppl have with the class is it not a particularly self sufficient class. You are dependent on your teammates allot more than allot of the other classes. I do agree with this though - completely. It's why I'm still grinding it out. I do feel appreciated for my efforts. I just wish we could trade some dot damage for some burst, with some kind of CD so I didn't have to run from almost every fight. You can't even really kite, at least not for long. Oh and I solo pug about 67% of the time. Still haven't settled/found a good imperial pvp guild yet to join. Edited July 23, 2012 by islander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil_Santa Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I do agree with this though - completely. It's why I'm still grinding it out. I do feel appreciated for my efforts. I just wish we could trade some dot damage for some burst, with some kind of CD so I didn't have to run from almost every fight. You can't even really kite, at least not for long. Oh and I solo pug about 67% of the time. Still haven't settled/found a good imperial pvp guild yet to join. We do have some burst. As a hybrid build sorc, force-barrage proc + reckless = 5k - 6k damage in 1.5 seconds. Add-on a crushing darkness with the wrath proc from that, and affliction dots and you're at around 10k in 5 seconds. The trick to playing a sorc is to know when to run and when to burst, you have to be patient and learn how-to gauge when the right moment to strike is going to present itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elkirin Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 (edited) I do not believe in nerfs. That said, the number of players either shelving certain classes or ceasing to play due to the weaknesses they see in their classes is telling. People need to enjoy playing ALL the classes, or we need a cross server pvp warzone setup where they can still play their classes without feeling they are holding the teams back. Ranked warzones DID NOT help people want to play all the classes, it made more feel excluded. I would suggest player numbers will continue to drop as long as more people feel excluded. Edited July 23, 2012 by Elkirin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheronFett Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Maras/Sents have both burst DPS and defense. Oh and most classes have utility in some means or another. Operatives/Smugglers have DPS and massive utility. You're also assuming Juggs/Guardians/Vanguards/Guardians are all tank specs. No. DPS spec sorcerers have....nothing. nice try though. You obviously can't read, since nothing in your reply indicates that you have any comprehension at all of what I wrote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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