Pingonaut Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Secondly, this is the same kind of crap that people said about WoW when Roper left Blizzard. Seven years later.... I keep hearing this, too. If this is how WoW looked at their start, it doesn't seem so abnormal or dooming that SWTOR is going through the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahrdol Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Rick knows when to leave a sinking ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kestalas Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 I'm not sure why everyone is blowing this out of proportion. Many of you sound like conspiracy theorists plotting the potential downfall of a government. There are plenty of reasons he could have left and in fact Bioware has already commented on it if you read the second link. Also, there are always SEVERAL sides to every story. Naturally assuming this is a sign of doom for SWTOR is just plain short sighted. Period. His particular set of skills may have been to perform his duties in pre-launch and then to a particular point and now his job is finished. They probably already have someone in line to replace him and take 1.3 into however many updates this game receives. The fact that everyone is so worried because the game lost a group of subscribers who only subscribed for the 30 days of free game time is just beyond me. The game is barely in its infancy. WoW or any other MMO never gets it right in its first 2 years. A lot of you simply expect too much of a polished product so soon, that paying for a subscription means you are entitled to a perfect game. Wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordRoth Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 It's like trolling in a sea of trolls trolling trolls in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicKat Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 I'm not sure why everyone is blowing this out of proportion. Many of you sound like conspiracy theorists plotting the potential downfall of a government. There are plenty of reasons he could have left and in fact Bioware has already commented on it if you read the second link. Also, there are always SEVERAL sides to every story. Naturally assuming this is a sign of doom for SWTOR is just plain short sighted. Period. His particular set of skills may have been to perform his duties in pre-launch and then to a particular point and now his job is finished. They probably already have someone in line to replace him and take 1.3 into however many updates this game receives. The fact that everyone is so worried because the game lost a group of subscribers who only subscribed for the 30 days of free game time is just beyond me. The game is barely in its infancy. WoW or any other MMO never gets it right in its first 2 years. A lot of you simply expect too much of a polished product so soon, that paying for a subscription means you are entitled to a perfect game. Wrong. Woah there Einstein! If I read you correctly, you are saying... 1) TOR forum posters over react. 2) TOR forum posters leap to the worst possible scenario all the time. 3) MMO forum posters are generally highly cynical whiners. 4) MMO players a have seriously inflated sense of entitlement and unerealistic expectations of what $15/month buys. This is pure madness I say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordRoth Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Woah there Einstein! If I read you correctly, you are saying... 1) TOR forum posters over react. 2) TOR forum posters leap to the worst possible scenario all the time. 3) MMO forum posters are generally highly cynical whiners. 4) MMO players a have seriously inflated sense of entitlement and unerealistic expectations of what $15/month buys. This is pure madness I say! QFT +5 kudos +10 darkside cookies +full body massage lottery winner. etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) I won't be logging in less frequently or playing for shorter periods of time because some suit I've never met changed the channel. Edited July 20, 2012 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeonBraun Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) 4) MMO players a have seriously inflated sense of entitlement and unerealistic expectations of what $15/month buys. This is pure madness I say! For someone to suggest this truly means one has no clue what being part of an MMO community really means. There is a lot more here involved than simply $15 a month. The largest factors here are community, relationships and time spent. Time. When a developer makes an MMO, they are inviting players to invest a large portion of time and who they are into a new community, to make new friends, to spend time with this new community, to potentially bring a community over from another game and in doing so make a consious choice to let another large time investment go. When this happens, Devs have to understand that they cradle the trust of these flesh and blood, living (not pixels) people in their care. And when things do not go as expected, as promised, as hyped, as suggested, the community investing large portions of thier precious time into this game, damn well have the right voice their opinion and speak up as to how they wish the developers to interact with them and how the product is created and delivered to them. This is something that the Devs of this game still have not figured out... And someone in charge needs to wake up ASAP and start moving things in a direction that is more open, collabritive, and real time two-way with the TOR community. Edited July 20, 2012 by LeonBraun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggomy Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 The only flaw in your argument is that ground combat in SWG was the only thing in the game for what... 2 years? It was the most unfinished game in the history of games. It wouldn't have lasted 3 months without Star Wars fanboy/girls playing it just because it was Star Wars. Calling it awful is an insult to awful things. Meridian 59 was also an awful game. You have to give it a break though as the state of internet gaming then was truly in its infancy. Ultima Online was also a debacle at launch. The very best example ever of a truly egocentric developer completely ignoring everything learned by every game that came before it. UO's biggest claim to fame is probably that it was so incredibly bad, it made Everquest seem like the invention of the wheel. EQ probably owes much of its success to the awfulness of UO. I dont know what you are talking about. UO was awesome when it came out. How could you say anyone thought it was aweful? Hell they still have around 300k users (maybe more than swtor now?) after 12 years and counting. UO was incredible the best game out at the time period. The only reason people moved to EQ was because EQ was 3D while UO was 2D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demotivator Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) Bioware has been going downhill nonstop since being acquired by EA (Real surprise there...) -Dragon Age 2 -Mass Effect 3 crap endings / handling of the situation "Artistic Integrity" -SWTOR content updates being slow / incompetent developers in some parts (lol lead pvp designer) + Geoerg and others leaving. DICE and Bioware are currently on the chopping block for EA Although I have no issue at all with ME3 you're still right, BW definitely lost their identity when going to EA. Maybe it seemed a viable solution at that time - various studios being shut left and right - but in the long run it's still hurting their wallet. Their loss. Edited July 20, 2012 by demotivator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaltom Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) For someone to suggest this truly means one has no clue what being part of an MMO community really means. [snip] 1) TOR forum posters over react. 3) MMO forum posters are generally highly cynical whiners. 4) MMO players a have seriously inflated sense of entitlement and unerealistic expectations of what $15/month buys. Left the ones that applied most to your post. Edited July 20, 2012 by Thaltom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkirus Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 I keep hearing this, too. If this is how WoW looked at their start, it doesn't seem so abnormal or dooming that SWTOR is going through the same thing. At release and shortly after yes. They had some peaks and dropoffs in subs. But 8 months down the road after release WoW was in much better shape than TOR is now. And thier issues was mainly technical with server stability and bugs. The "core" of what the game was...was solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaltom Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) At release and shortly after yes. They had some peaks and dropoffs in subs. But 8 months down the road after release WoW was in much better shape than TOR is now. And thier issues was mainly technical with server stability and bugs. The "core" of what the game was...was solid. After a year of playing WoW my hunter would randomly fall through the world in STV and other zones. I remember one particular time there was a turtle down there with me. I couldn't attack him for some reason, and since GM responses were notoriously slow (I hear things like this were happening to a lot of people at that time) I hung out with my unnamed turtle buddy for nearly an hour. Is that what you mean by solid? Turtle buddies? Edited July 20, 2012 by Thaltom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkirus Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 After a year of playing WoW my hunter would randomly fall through the world in STV and other zones. I remember one particular time there was a turtle down there with me. I couldn't attack him for some reason, and since GM responses were notoriously slow (I hear things like this were happening to a lot of people at that time) I hung out with my unnamed turtle buddy for nearly an hour. Is that what you mean by solid? Turtle buddies? Well no. There was still bugs. For more than a year afterwards. And even today there are some. I meant the game design was solid in terms of design features. And the subs was on the rise 8 months after release. I can remember the bug which would dump your char in the ocean taking the boat from Menetril Harbor to Theramore. Then you would die from fatigue before you would make it to shore. lol. And I did not unsub because of TOR's bugs. I think in that way TOR has been excellent. I think sence the beta days in TOR and months later, my computer maybe crashed once. Not even sure of that. Not once have I ever had a game breaking bug in TOR. Then again, I never got into Operations or did any PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaltom Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 I can remember the bug which would dump your char in the ocean taking the boat from Menetril Harbor to Theramore. Then you would die from fatigue before you would make it to shore. lol. Ha, that is just cruel. And I did not unsub because of TOR's bugs. I think in that way TOR has been excellent. I think sence the beta days in TOR and months later, my computer maybe crashed once. Not even sure of that. Not once have I ever had a game breaking bug in TOR. Then again, I never got into Operations or did any PVP. I have the same perspective. TOR has run smoothly for me. My wife had one crash-to-desktop, but that could have been her PC. I meant the game design was solid in terms of design features. I would like to disagree here. WoW didn't seem to have a definable end game when it launched (at least not to me) and PvP was nonexistent. I'm waiting to see what 1.4 and 1.5 hold in terms of content (end game and otherwise) before I say TOR has my sub for life*. *: or at least until they start running out of ideas and release Mists of Endor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkirus Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 I would like to disagree here. WoW didn't seem to have a definable end game when it launched (at least not to me) and PvP was nonexistent. I'm waiting to see what 1.4 and 1.5 hold in terms of content (end game and otherwise) before I say TOR has my sub for life*. *: or at least until they start running out of ideas and release Mists of Endor. I can remember defending Danassus and Astranaar often from the Hordies in early days of WoW. Was a lot of fun. This was back in the days before they added the silly resilence stat for PVP. And yeah, WoW was not for everyone, but it was for millions of players. All a matter of what you want in a MMO. As you said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socialist Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 This thread shows the folly it is to invest in the MMO business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealCandyMan Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 After a year of playing WoW my hunter would randomly fall through the world in STV and other zones. I remember one particular time there was a turtle down there with me. I couldn't attack him for some reason, and since GM responses were notoriously slow (I hear things like this were happening to a lot of people at that time) I hung out with my unnamed turtle buddy for nearly an hour. Is that what you mean by solid? Turtle buddies? That would be called a bug and not what a game "is". Also your complaining about having to wait an hour for CSR to fix your problem? It takes days in SWTOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apeth Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Is that what you mean by solid? Turtle buddies? ROFL Id pay for turtle buddys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celebrus Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) I would like to disagree here. WoW didn't seem to have a definable end game when it launched (at least not to me) and PvP was nonexistent. I'm waiting to see what 1.4 and 1.5 hold in terms of content (end game and otherwise) before I say TOR has my sub for life*. *: or at least until they start running out of ideas and release Mists of Endor. Wow definitely had definable end game, it just wasn't accessible to every mouth breather with a mouse and keyboard, which is what most MMOs are attempting these days. Both Molten Core and Onyxia's lair were available 40 man raids when the game launched, there were constant pvp battles at certain small villages across the world. It's amazing that people say that pvp didn't exist simply because it was before the days of pvp stats and arena rankings. Thats simply naive and shows a lack of experience in the genre before game's like WoW. The difference between WoW's end game at launch and ToR's end game at launch is that you actually had to work to get to WoW's end game. The levelling took time, gearing took time, and professions took time, but they were also enjoyable and engaging, which is basically the opposite of this game. Where most achievements are easy and mind numbing other than the ones they are gating us through right now, such as Campaign gear and War hero. I mean hell, it's taken me 7 months to level four level fifties (working on a fifth) three of which have almost full Battlemaster gear, one of which has full BM, mixed columi and rakata. Contrast that with WoW where 6 months in I had only one level 60, was working on a second, and my level 60 was not well geared. It was simply more difficult and engaging than SWToR is. ToR is a good example of a game that is just trying far too hard to cater to the lowest common denominator, and as a result, that is the only demographic they've ensnared. That would be called a bug and not what a game "is". Also your complaining about having to wait an hour for CSR to fix your problem? It takes days in SWTOR. Tell me about it, I've been waiting five days for them to give me back a battlemaster weapon that I accidentally replaced without removing the black-green crystal I had swapped into it. Five days for an item return from a vendor. Edited July 20, 2012 by Celebrus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holden_Dissent Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 That would be called a bug and not what a game "is". Also your complaining about having to wait an hour for CSR to fix your problem? It takes days in SWTOR. Would you swear to your statement in a court of law ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejadavidson Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 In the movie business the executive producer is the money guy, the get-funding guy, the schmoozer, the day-to-day business guy that deals with all the NON artistic stuff. If the product is finished, I'm not surehow valuable the producer would be. At this point, it's updates and programming. If the artistic or head engineer quit, I'd be a little more concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertySol Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Yeah, no kidding. I don't understand why people are so convinced that a F2P pvp oriented game is the savior. Thankfully Guild Wars 2 is neither Free to play nor PvP oriented. Not sure if ignorant or just trolling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejadavidson Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Thankfully Guild Wars 2 is neither Free to play nor PvP oriented. Not sure if ignorant or just trolling... I was just on GW2 for the final beta weekend that just started today and goes through Sunday. I had to try a sylvari since this is the first time that class is available. Asurans are in this beta, soo. It's a very pretty game, but I'm not finding it very interesting. I loved the first Guild Wars. Not sure why I'm not as interested in GW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkirus Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Would you swear to your statement in a court of law ? Sence there are 24 hrs in a day and I have had on more than one occasion where it took a min 2 days. Yeah, I would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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