Decision making is broken.

[Latorn]

First off I just want to state that I love this game. It's really great, but that doesn't mean there are no flaws, and one of the most obvious flaws is the lack of neutral gear.

 

 

Decisions making is the most critical factor of this MMO, and I (as well as several hundred thousand other players I'm sure) have been making my own decisions dependent on my own moral compass. This leads a character to make both, light and dark decisions, which the game does not currently support. Even at the early stages of the game (after the tutorial planets) there are too many items that are restricted to light or dark side, and all of the players who have made their own decisions are restricted in their gear options.

 

 

Does this mean in order to be effective and have gear options (being able to use the Light II or Dark II armour or lightsaber the boss just dropped) I need to always pick the light or dark decision and never do anything different? if this is the case why are we even given decisions, why not just designate if the character is light or dark during character creation?

 

 

Neutral gear needs to be priority #1 on the content development list, other wise players are just getting punished for making their own decisions. It's unfortunate that currently decision making- which is not only the biggest selling point of this MMO, but also the most wonderful part of it -is broken.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Latorn

[CadeAssant]

I agree but it's also sort of a moot point because the developers have said that they realize that, ans are gonna be adding more neutral gear.

[SirUrza]

Get lightside gear and you're darkside? No problem. Take the neutral mods out of it (which is usually everything except the crystal) and put them into your gear, solved.

[Latorn]

Get lightside gear and you're darkside? No problem. Take the neutral mods out of it (which is usually everything except the crystal) and put them into your gear, solved.

 

Wait a second haha, I may be misunderstanding. Are you saying the light/dark side requirement isn't tied to the gear itself, but the components that make it up? I can't actually load the game up myself to confirm this myself, but if it's true that's something I didn't know.

 

 

However, if I'm neither light or dark side what crystal option do I have then? Players that make their own choices, and aren't exactly a goody-two-shoes, or an evil overlord, are still screwed for making their own decisions.

[Daemonaz]

As far as I've seen it, it's often tied to the color crystal. You can buy the item, get out the mods, and put them in your own gear (minus the color crystal).

 

If you are a neutral (or good) jedi you can't use Red color crystals, and that's it as far as I'm aware?

Edited December 19, 2011 by Daemonaz

[yomanaaiton]

It's not only about sabers. Some clothes cannot be worn if you don't fulfill their requirements. And it's not the mods, it's the gear itself.

[Latorn]

It's not only about sabers. Some clothes cannot be worn if you don't fulfill their requirements. And it's not the mods, it's the gear itself.

 

This is exactly what I thought, I ran into armour that had a light requirement a while ago, and even though it was better than my current gear I couldn't equip it because of my neutral alignment. Don't get me wrong, I'm not upset that I couldn't equip because it was light side and I was dark, I was upset because I was neutral and I had NO options.

 

The armour could have had a mod inside it that required the light requirement, but I sold it, so I can't tell.

[lunabaguna]

I've been sithing it up with my own moral compass, I find I generally make 80% light side and 20% dark. This slows my progress toward better gear, but I'll eventually get there. It's my choice to take the slower route to rp my way. I feel this is fair

[Nague]

my problem isnt no neutral, my problem is biowares randomness when it comes to what is dark and what is light.

 

Sometimes dark is the calculated decision that weights lives, sometimes light is the calculated one and dark is just psycho.

Sometimes light is irrationally good and dark is slightly bullying someone to save a planet.

 

 

Only thing more random is my companions approval ratings in the conversations.

[Psienesis]

Neutrality is a sign of moral weakness.

[Latorn]

Neutrality is a sign of moral weakness.

 

Bahaha, is that a quote? Because it only makes sense in the context of making a neutral decision.

 

Making many decisions, all of them being a combination of dark and light, is not a sign of "moral weakness".

[yomanaaiton]

my problem isnt no neutral, my problem is biowares randomness when it comes to what is dark and what is light.

 

Sometimes dark is the calculated decision that weights lives, sometimes light is the calculated one and dark is just psycho.

Sometimes light is irrationally good and dark is slightly bullying someone to save a planet.

 

 

Only thing more random is my companions approval ratings in the conversations.

 

Yes I agree. For instance, one thing I found really weird was saving the Rakghouls being a 'Light' choice. It was really ridiculous, especially since later it's stated that they are beyond redemption.

[Latorn]

I've been sithing it up with my own moral compass, I find I generally make 80% light side and 20% dark. This slows my progress toward better gear, but I'll eventually get there. It's my choice to take the slower route to rp my way. I feel this is fair

 

So, because it works for you feel it's fair?

 

My moral compass has lead me to about 60% light 40% dark, thus I am in the neutral alignment and have NO options when it comes to gear. It's not just the "slower route", it's no route.

[Latorn]

my problem isnt no neutral, my problem is biowares randomness when it comes to what is dark and what is light.

 

Sometimes dark is the calculated decision that weights lives, sometimes light is the calculated one and dark is just psycho.

Sometimes light is irrationally good and dark is slightly bullying someone to save a planet.

 

 

Only thing more random is my companions approval ratings in the conversations.

 

 

I determine for myself what is right, that is how I've arrived at neutrality (about 60% light and 40% dark).

 

You really can't complain about what Bioware has labelled as right and wrong, because it all comes down to ones own moral compass. If Bioware were to change it people would still complain due to their own perspectives.

[Sernon]

Hopefully they will flesh out the alignment system, with any associated gear ASAP. Not affected by this, but the system needs to be solidified, for it brings great flavor to the game.

 

---

[Snowdevil]

Ok, so your moral compass leads you to neutral ground? What would happen to a person in the SW universe if they were neutral? They would be considered weak by the sith, and full of fear from the jedi. Stepping back, punishing players by not picking a side is more true to the SW universe than not.

 

IRL, I am more neutral than good or evil. If I am faced with a moral decision, I know I could be selfish and cruel or selfless and kind. The game gives you free-will and shows you what your character perceives as dark or lightside moral choices, and you are faced with a dilemma.

 

Like a child learning to behave, SWTOR teaches us to learn to be good or evil--even if it does not line up with our IRL moral compass.

[Evenios]

I like how it was done in the beta it really did feel like you were making a choice at times and it shoudnt be based on what gear you get. I think they system they have now is really good honestly better then most MMOS in most MMOS HONESTLY you dont feel like you really have a choice, you take a quest you do a mission thats it.

[KillerJak]

I have been begging them for this since december 2010 lol...its preaty stupid to make a game thats all about choice and then punish certain people for choosing what they feel like choosing.

 

In one of my beta playthroughs i got a sentinal to level 30 and realized that my dark and light ballanced out perfectly so i was still at 0 lol...a huge reason i play games like this is to do things my own way whether it be right or wrong. Its circumstantial for me. extremes r bad in my book and i like to play as a complex character. Duno why i gota be punished for that...

 

I am glad to hear bioware is working on this but the fact that somthing so simple couldnt have been put in at launch is disapointing. Hope they add it sooner rather then later.

[Xfraze]

I just want to point out that the decisions in pretty much every bioware game ever have usually been this skewed. I think the problem is that they're trying to appeal to a lot of people, and the subtleties of neutrality is not something "a lot of people" can pick up on or is too much of a pain to write/implement.

 

A character who doesn't care about anything is pretty hard to write, so if they don't make players pick options that seem a bit ridiculous at times, then they could be accused by people who can't appreciate a more neutral standpoint of making a "boring" game.

 

Doesn't mean that some of the choice don't seem irrationally arbitrary though.

[Dradallor]

As far as i have seen in the past few days the Dark/Light is tight to the color crystal. To test this I got myself a auto cannon for Dark I while i was Light II just to test this.

 

I replaced the color crystal with the pre order crystal and the Dark I requirment dissappeard from the item.

 

On the other hand i agree, I play my D/L desicions based on the characters i play. WIch means my Jedi is full light, Sith full dark but my smuggler is Nuetral because well some times its fun to be a sadist and kill that weakling but i wont burn people because they want to save a child

 

Some more neutral gera would be great but I dont think, if swapping crystals is a allowed solution in BW eyes, its a great problem where i cant live with.

[Thorkir]

my problem isnt no neutral, my problem is biowares randomness when it comes to what is dark and what is light.

 

Sometimes dark is the calculated decision that weights lives, sometimes light is the calculated one and dark is just psycho.

Sometimes light is irrationally good and dark is slightly bullying someone to save a planet.

 

 

Only thing more random is my companions approval ratings in the conversations.

 

Indeed. I don't particularly want to have to recoup the DS points I'd get from a conversation in which the DS choice makes better sense than LS. And I still haven't managed to get my companions figured out (except Khem Vhal, who only seems to gain affection if you're talking down to someone or killing them).

 

I can see how neutral players would get frustrated at current gear choices, I'm sure something will be done about it at a later date. Hopefully not too much later.

[DarthOmega]

I am hoping that they are working on the 'Neutral' side of things, and that the reason they removied the titles associated with the various light and dark tiers is because they are going to reimplement them once they get neutral fully implemented.

 

People saying that being neutral is moral weakness and that not picking a side shoudl punish characters because that's how Star Wars actually is? That is complete crap, and you guys need to get off your frakin high horse about it. First off, there are plenty of neutral characters in Star Wars that never picked a side, and the Sith and Jedi neve ronce looked at them funny.

 

Second off, I have a completely neutral character. She is an Imperial Agent, and works for the good of the Empire at large. She has made decisions that were dark side (mostly, the Empire is actually evil overall I am finding), but also some that were light side because it benefitted the Empire. Traitors to the Empire? They die (dark side). A rebel cell can be converted instead of destroyed outright? Convert them, they can benefit the Empire (light side).

 

As a result my character has been neutral the whole time. Following what your character would actually do leads to this. Not some imaginary moral weakness. Seriously they need to take a look at how their system works and retune it a bit I think. But in the meantime maybe they first need to make some gear for us 'Neutrals', and then maybe make it so that the high level Light/Dark gear doesn't require a high alignment rating, or maybe make different gear for all levels at all alignment ratings with the same stats but different looks.

[Latorn]

Ok, so your moral compass leads you to neutral ground? What would happen to a person in the SW universe if they were neutral? They would be considered weak by the sith, and full of fear from the jedi. Stepping back, punishing players by not picking a side is more true to the SW universe than not.

 

IRL, I am more neutral than good or evil. If I am faced with a moral decision, I know I could be selfish and cruel or selfless and kind. The game gives you free-will and shows you what your character perceives as dark or lightside moral choices, and you are faced with a dilemma.

 

Like a child learning to behave, SWTOR teaches us to learn to be good or evil--even if it does not line up with our IRL moral compass.

 

I'd just like to point out two things. First, is that there's a difference between making 1 neutral choice (which isn't written in the game, and I'm not expecting it to), and making 2 light choices and 2 dark choices collectively. Second, only half of the classes are sith and jedi. Are you telling me my bounty hunter needs to either decide on being a goody-two-shoes or an insane murderer from the start, and I should ALWAYS make the light or dark decision no matter what? As I stated in my OP, why even bother having decisions then? Why not designate your characters alignment during character creation? >.<

[Latorn]

I just want to point out that the decisions in pretty much every bioware game ever have usually been this skewed. I think the problem is that they're trying to appeal to a lot of people, and the subtleties of neutrality is not something "a lot of people" can pick up on or is too much of a pain to write/implement.

 

A character who doesn't care about anything is pretty hard to write, so if they don't make players pick options that seem a bit ridiculous at times, then they could be accused by people who can't appreciate a more neutral standpoint of making a "boring" game.

 

Doesn't mean that some of the choice don't seem irrationally arbitrary though.

 

I'm not saying they should implement a neutral option in conversations. It's for people that have picked 100 light side and 80 dark side decisions, and have thus ended up being marked as neutral alignment.

[Chomag]

I play a light side character and I'm happy with the decisions I make. I don't make them without reading/thinking and just because they give LS points.

 

However, I did feel very good about this DS decision I made in the Empire starting area. It felt satisfying to kill The Black Death guy. Oh yeah! Best DS decision I ever made.