Class Feedback

[Netpass]

1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

1. Concealment - weak, no one wants me to join ranked WZ groups or flashpoints, there are many other classes in the game that outperforming "concealment" operative (assassins/shadows for example are doing more damage, have more defensive abilities and can last longer in open combat)

Lethality skill tree - not many operatives using this spec, so not many players aware that there are "lethality" spec operatives. However, people like effective snipers, using lethality skill tree, but sniper's lethality tree does not require TA. so it is much more effective.

 

2. Concealment - weaker than most melee classes in game, low survivability. As I understand, this skill tree was designed for quick burst damage from stealth. Dealing quick burst damage was the only way to do damage at all - this tree doesn't have skills to deal a constant damage. After last patches this skill tree was nerfed, so there is no more initial damage burst. But skill tree still lacks constant damage dealing abilities and survivability.

Lethality - it will be a good balanced skill tree if not those 2 major weaknesses: high energy consumption for DoT skills which doing almost same damage as "cheaper" melee skills in Concealment tree. Second weakness is requirement of Tactical Advantage to use Cull (main damaging ability for this spec). Why do operatives have a 10 m. range limitations and TA requirement for Cull, and Snipers don't? So this skill tree is also weak due to high energy consumption and TA limitation.

 

P.S. glad to see Bioware is listening to community feedback regarding class balance

[Diplomaticus]

Lethality Med Hybrid (PvP)

 

1. People often don't know the spec, but as with all dps-oriented op specs, most consider us at the bottom of the food chain, or at least significantly behind more standard dps classes like marauders and powertechs. In higher end-oriented pvp, where team coordination lowers the importance of our escape tools and makes up for the lack of defensive cooldowns of say, powertechs, our efficiency drops lower, so people hesitate to take us there.

 

2. Dps Operatives can work to an extent (they're not totally worthless) but, as is the case with other AC's (mercs, sorcs and to some extent assassins) they don't have the same dps potential as some of the more standard classes. What follows are partly my own impressions:

 

Comparing Concealment to powertechs: PT's have more utility (pull + taunts vs Flashbang), more sustained dps and equal (or perhaps even slightly better) burst that isn't stealth dependent. The bulk of their damaging abilities have a range to them (both 10m and 30m), whereas all of concealment's main dps options are melee). Concealment has probably slightly better survivability and significantly better escape tools.

 

Comparing Lethality to Lethality (Sniper): largely the same, but Snipers are ranged and deal more damage more efficiently (both within their build-specific skills -poisons+WB+Cull- as with their other skills). Snipers can't heal, but unless you're using my spec healing as dps only has minor contribution in high end pvp. Personally I don't mind the awkward set-up tactics and melee/ranged conflicts of the build, but if that's to be kept that way, the Cull (operative-wise) playstyle should be made more lethal. (suggestion: maybe lower Cull's natural energy cost to 10 and change License to Kill into something that buffs the power of Cull, like it does to Snipers - this may prove enough to get the spec into the upper leagues).

 

EDIT: Let me add that I do not consider classes like maras and pt's overpowered. I'm sure they are fun classes and provide a very smooth and enjoyable gaming experience to the player. I'd much rather see the other classes polished up to that lvl, which would make the game more fun to those players, rather than taking the fun out of the classes that work well at the moment.

Edited July 17, 2012 by Diplomaticus

[Thourton]

1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?

My Operative spec is Medic, which others perceive as the current powerhouse healer, with its instant heals at <30% health, on-the-move HoTs, multiple crowd control, and a few defensive cooldowns, including an in-combat stealth.

 

Concealment seems to be the perceived joke spec right now with a highly specialized set of skills and burst attacks.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

My Operative's Medic spec is definitely powerful, and I would agree that it's arguably the best PvP healer currently. The spec has high mobility with instant cast heals, great energy management, and plenty of defensive/escape abilities.

 

For Concealment, I think it's useless unless used in its specialized manner (typically multiple Concealment Operatives in a coordinated PvP group), and in that case, it badly abuses crowd control and is still incredibly frustrating to play against.

[GeistCC]

Spec - Concealment (3 Medicine / 31 Concealment / 7 Lethality)

 

1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?

 

PvE (Concealment) - "Waste of a spot", low sustained dps with too much risk for little reward.

 

PvP (Concealment) - This goes in two ways to extremes, you'll either get the natural hatred for stealth classes you find in every game "unfair, nerf them more" type of attitude or the one from those with more PvP experience, gear, or currently doing rateds at a bit of a higher level, "nuisance, non-factors." Most other classes seem to perceive us as the non-threatening stealth gankers.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

PvE (Concealment) - Lacking, sustain dps is a large issue, even with practiced rotations it feels like there's a gap in our attacks, as if we were supposed to have another knife attack or something there, hard to explain. Energy regen is also a problem, I don't mean this to the extreme as I understand the pick and choose system, however when your opening rotation can destroy your energy pool, it's a bit much. There is also the problem with our positional attacks which can be effected by any server issues or problems in game; e.g. the mobs back is pointed at me but I can't use Hidden Strike or Backstab. I perceive it in PvE to be lacking, too much risk for little reward.

 

PvP (Concealment) - Once again lacking, opening rotation and energy management makes it so you can't be as flexible as the class can be. We provide a decent amount of utility, support and CC, for example; infiltrate, off heals and Pin Down with Sever Tendon. Positional attacks aren't always functional and are lackluster for what it takes to get them off when you weigh in other classes. It also feels as if way too much was tied into us getting into stealth and without the ability to do so with ease, group fights don't really allow this and the occasional combat bug. We also lack field control such as knockbacks, pulls, or gap closers; i.e. charge or sprint. I perceive us as a counter-class with damage and energy problems, I can counter most of what any other class can do, I just don't have the damage or energy to keep up with it.

 

Too much risk for little reward.

 

In total I perceive us as the Mordin Solus of this game - "Lots of ways to help people. Sometimes heal patients; sometimes execute dangerous people. Either way helps."

[panzernight]

1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?

 

Weak dps in PVP excellent mobility heals

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

Yes we have stealth but unlike assassin we dont have a speed boost to help with closing ground. Good heals in pvp but not top number heals more of a support healer.

[pipda]

1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?

PVE and PVP healing OPs are in a good place. DPS is a joke although most content is over geared enough that no one really cares. Would rather have a passable DPS Op that knows how to CC, not break CC and kill the right bad guy than a bad player.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

Healing OP is good. A lot of the issues I had with the spec got fixed, they have a viable AOE heal and Diag Scan is no longer a massive pain to use. O and fixed the talent tree bugs.

 

DPS Operative is just complete junk. Not fun to play, not fluid. Clunky. Doesn't feel like there is really any difference between the trees. Check out the PT DPS trees, they are wonderful and special in their own little ways. Would like to see TAs used as a combo point system that you have a spamable attack to build up for your "finishers". The finishers could then be used to give a flavor to each tree.

[WickedImage]

1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?

 

Concealment- 10-49 it is considered to be quite competitive. At level 50 my spec is currently perceived as a liability on

both PUG teams and Pre-mades. It is among the last specs wanted and in some cases absolutely will not be accepted to a team. Whispers often go unanswered.

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

Concealment-10-49 I am absolutely deadly, borderline fearless of any other specs. In the 10-49 bracket I felt like I could beat anyone at anytime. Operative is a serious threat to any other class/spec in a decent players hands.

At level 50 I feel like I have to work much harder than other specs to "tread water" with them. I can still kill bad players, have occasional trouble with decent players and have little chance vs a good player. Sometimes player skill doesn't matter at all and I simply can't hang with their class/spec.

Factoring in WH gear on other players means I REALLY need to be careful, pick my spots, and only pick off the wounded. I must go through my full rotations more than in 10-49 bracket and the opposition kills me in 3-5 GCD's. I am not feared in level 50 nor should I be. Bad players and under geared players are still VERY killable though. It just takes longer in the 50 bracket than in 10-49 bracket. On the ooposite side of the coin a well geared "good" player is not killable by my operative. Period.

[Grady]

Concealment Operative

 

How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?

 

Sub par at best.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

Fun but weird rotation; something missing? Very squishy for the lackluster damage. The must be behind bug is annoying!

[SpirantKaze]

Medic spec, PvE focused

1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?

We tend to be viewed as a good single target healer, since we can put out 6-7k heals if we crit on Kolto Injection, and 2.5-3.5k if we don't. We tend to be viewed as terrible raid healers, though, since our cast times are pretty long and we have a fairly useless AOE heal.

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

Pretty much the same as stated above. I think my spec is awesome for tank healing, but pretty sucky for raid healing. I think we would do a lot better if diagnostic scan's healing was increased and if Recuperative Nanotech hit more than one person.

Edited July 17, 2012 by SpirantKaze

[lectotrans]

1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?

other classes perceive the healing spec to be pretty decent for pvp. however the dps specs are perceived as annoying but not threatening.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

i like healing for pvp, still kinda leary on healing for pve, but dps for pvp is pretty sad. concealment at least is underwhelming. any other dps class i feel like i'm doing damage, my operative i feel like i'm a wet noodle, my only task that i can complete is to kill people already almost dead. it's like being a scavenger. not something i imagine when i think of "Imperial Agent"

[chadicus]

1. Gimped and worthless

 

2. Gimped and worthless

[Quinntenfelde]

1. other people find this class over powered when is comes to healing because we can do it on the move, but the dps is a joke.

 

2. i have only played concealment but i love the ethics around the class. i wanna be able to appear out of thin air and quickly and efficiently stab the life out of a ostracized target, but the down fall being when attacked by more then one person your basically a free kill. unfortunately now only one of the two can be achieved we get killed by groups and we get killed 1v1.

[SystemProcess]

1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?

 

Healing- People seem to like healing operatives, but will often say Sorcs have better output.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

Healing- Good and mobile for PvP, though I may agree with the statement above.

[Hermanlee]

Speaking as a healer:

 

1. I haven't encountered anyone with negative perceptions of my class. My guild considers me a capable healer and have confidence in my ability as a healer an as an operative.

 

2. I love how operatives heal. It's very unique and different from what I played in WoW. The resource management I feel really rewards skill.

 

The only complaint I have is I wish we had some form of defensive cooldown or Oh Crap button for emergencies. As it stands now, if someone drops low and are in danger of dying soon, my only option is really surgical probe spam for very little healing or pray that I can get off a kolto injection before they take another hit. In WoW priests had Guardian Spirit, paladins had lay on hands, spells that had a high cost whether of resources or cooldown but could save someone on the verge of dying. It'd be nice to have a cooldown such as those because while our sustained healing is great, in spiky situations it can become difficult to get people up.

[Syberduh]

How is concealment operative viewed by others (PvP)?

 

Two reactions -- from undergeared/underskilled players: "Operative is OP. Ops stunlock me and 1 shot me. Nerf them some more." From skilled, geared players in rated WZs -- "meh. Occasionally annoying but not nearly as threatening as a good marauder/good assassin/average-or-better pyrotech."

 

How do you view the concealment operative (PvP)?

 

Concealment operative is in limbo right now without a true niche. Seems the devs would prefer concealment ops to be a harassment class rather than a big number DPS class. Ops do have decent cc and can sort of fill that role, however the operative's interrupt ability has a 50% longer cooldown than that of a facerolling pyrotech.

 

Ways to buff concealment as a support/control/harassment spec:

 

Increase interrupt range to 30m or decrease cooldown to 8s

Decrease cooldown on sever tendon to 10s

Add to concealment skill "Energy Screen": toxin scan no longer respects the gcd

[CaptainApop]

1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

All related to healing, I have not specc'd dps.

 

1.

• PVE - Competant healers, best paired with a sorc. However the sorc remains the larger factor of the two. Much better since 1.2
  
• PVP - Best of three therefore considered OP by the singularity.
  

2.

PVE

1. - Kolto probes are clunky, due mostly to the UI. The reward for good management is not sufficient when considering opportunity cost and the potential to simply overheal.
   
2. - Kolto infusion needs some love to mix up the rather blazé "rotation"
   

PVP

• - Mobility is a great tool in pvp for doing large numbers overall. We ARE in the best spot of the three.
   
  
• - However, running is the only string to our bow and while healing on the move we don't feel very powerful or indeed very heroic. It feels more like pissing in the ocean to warm it up while running from your own shadow the whole game.
  

Edited July 17, 2012 by CaptainApop

[DomanSheridan]

While I play Lethality the most often, I play all three specs on a regular basis, so I'll take "your spec" in these questions to mean all three.

 

Medicine:

 

1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?

- It's the most desired spec out of the three, given the fact that it's both a) a healing spec, which is in high demand anyhow and b) the community's perceived problems with the other specs. People often go as far as saying that you literally shouldn't be any other spec than Medicine.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

- Medicine feels very smooth and natural to play, though I've only done so in a PvE context - I will leave others to comment on their PvP experience. I love the mobility that Kolto Probe and Surgical Probe provide. It's by far the easiest one to manage your energy and Tactical Advantage resources with.

 

Concealment:

 

1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?

- Today, in both PvE and PvP, people consider someone who plays the Concealment tree little more than a liability - though there exists a vocal minority that still hates when they get stunned and burst down by an Operative, even in their current PvP state. In PvE, their damage is mediocre in the best case (perfect rotation, perfectly stationary target) and abysmal in the worst case (mobile target) - their damage parses significantly lower (outside of the quoted "5% margin") in live raid settings (and to a lesser extent, training dummies) for a number of reasons - they simply deal less raw sustained damage to a target (even after mathematically accounting for the lack of evasion on a training dummy) and they are a melee class without increased mobility (and on top of that, highly stringent positioning requirements for their best hope for damage). In PvP, the experience is still very binary and inconsistent, where either the Concealment Operative catches someone off-guard and bursts them down without any retaliation, or the opposing player survives the burst and can easily ignore the Operative after that.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

- In PvE, mostly in the context of endgame Operation groups, I feel like a huge liability due to stringent positioning requirements, and that all of the tools that define the spec (stealth, CC, opening burst) are useless against an Operation boss. In PvP, I feel like all of the tools I get are either unreliable (stealth detection, being revealed by someone's stray AoE who didn't even know I was there, "still in combat" preventing me from stealthing again even though the enemy's run far away) or provide too small of a window to do what I need to do. There is a lot of idle time, some amount of poor-to-mediocre action time in the fray, and rare instances where I manage to feel like I played the class right - a feeling which is instantly sobered when I see their HP and realize they probably just weren't geared or didn't counter me right - in other words, I only feel like my successes are due to easy enemies/bad play, not due to my own skill and cunning. The only victories I earn are very un-Operative-like.

 

(I'd recommend taking a look at how other games are handling the design of stealth-based PvP - what comes to mind, most notably, is how the League of Legends team has been aware of the binary "always fun on one end, not fun for the other" nature of most stealth mechanics and recently settled on a design they think players will be more comfortable with now.)

 

Lethality:

 

1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?

- It's met with a lot of confusion, given the fact that it's a shared tree with the Sniper - a discrepancy which is further exacerbated with both the range and Tactical Advantage limitations present in the Operative version of the tree that are absent in the Sniper version. Lethality has to compete with both the highly-sought after Medicine tree and the Sniper version of the tree due to this; it does not help that it only puts out marginally better raw damage numbers than Concealment (while its range requirements are less stringent, they are still present). It attracts very little notice in PvP, which is both a blessing and a curse - from experience, people rarely tend to notice when I DoT them from range, but to be honest there is little that players outside of the class think Lethality brings to the table.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

- Stylistically, I enjoy it the most out of all three - but that's only because of what I envision my character to be and how she fights. Mechanically, I feel like the intended effect is to load up weak effects on someone and execute them after all the prep-work is done - which it accomplishes partially, but it feels highly clunky given the limitations of both energy and Tactical Advantages. I need to spend energy to get a TA, then spend even more energy -and- a TA to use my best move, but if I get too low, I'll bottom out entirely, so I have to use Rifle Shot in the meantime, and - it's way too complex compared to the simplicity of some other classes/specs when the end result is only a little better than Concealment.

[Ronable]

Concealment

• Percieved by me: Low burst damage and low sustained capability in PvP combat. Attacks to long and cost to much energy.
  
• Percieved by others: Extremely weak damage in PvP. Moderate bust but not worth bringing to RWZ's.
  

 

Healing

• Perceived by me: Best PvP healer. Highly mobile, strong heals. Maybe needs a boost to Kolto Probe. Ticks are to slow and too weak.
  
• Perceived by others: Hands down best PvP healers.
  

 

Lethality

• Perceived by me and others: Not a viable PvP spec. No ranged attacks proc TA. Weakening Blast range is to short.
  
• Good sustained PVE damage.
  

[PrettyKittyPaws]

*Note* I play a Concealment Operative, and I do not PVP

 

1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?

 

PVE - Seen as underpowered and most definitely unappreciated for its ultility and damage output. Most don't seem to actually understand how the class is played.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

PVE - I am in love with Concealment DPS. It requires situation awareness and management of abilities instead of arbitrary rotation. In long fights, however, a secondary means of gaining tactical advantage is sorely needed (otherwise you'll never seen it stack to 2) There's is also a down time between vibroknife abilities (due to the lack of tactical advantage) which requires an autoshot, which looks a little silly to me; would love an autoattack with the vibroknife option for aesthetic reasons. I would also love to see some kind of teleport-to ability, or a quick gap closer that other melee DPS classes have (Force speed and Force jump)

Edited July 18, 2012 by PrettyKittyPaws

[Toludin]

I mostly play PvE Medicine, though I have also done a fair bit of PvE Lethality.

 

I think most others view Operatives as capable healers and below-standard DPS for PvE content. The improvements to healing in 1.2 definitely helped out image as PvE healers, but little has been done on the DPS side.

 

I mostly agree with how others view our class. I feel like a rather powerful healer (especially in certain scenarios), but I really dislike DPSing. My woes with both healing and DPSing are mostly due to the inability to easily track my various over time effects via the interface. There's no way to make my HoTs show up better on the healing frames, I can't specify targets with Recuperative Nanotech, and DoTs are very difficult to keep tabs on in operations (especially 16-man). Priority listing and some sort of differentiating feature for your own debuffs would be very helpful. In addition, having a major part of Lethality DPS hit multiple targets can cause issues in certain scenarios.

 

Overall, I enjoy my Operative in PvE settings, but find I am constantly fighting against the interface to achieve my full potential, both for DPS and healing.

[TiTaNsFaN]

1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?

Healing Operative: Best PvP healing class in the game, overpowered compared to other healers.

DPS Operative: The only classes that remotely fear us in warzones aren't viable either, i.e. Mercenaries and Sorcerers.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

Healing Operative: I have been forced to heal since 1.2 because Bioware took the overhanded approach to class balance and completely ruined our only viable DPS spec, being concealment. The medic tree makes us the best healers in the game, but it is unfortunate the Operative class has been forced to heal to be viable.

DPS Operative: Lethality is laughable in both PvP and PvE. Concealment, our only viable DPS spec prior to 1.2, is also laughably underpowered. In PvP, we are supposed to be a hit and run high burst class, but have zero capacity to restealth, have lower burst damage than top tier classes (Assassins, Maruaders, Powertechs) and have no survivability whatsoever. This is a broken spec .

 

 

EDIT: I should also mention DPS Concealment Operatives have the WORST energy management in the game, making us even more useless in both PvP and PvE. I wish the idiots at Bioware hadn't pushed me so hard into Guild Wars 2 but damn, message received.

Edited July 18, 2012 by TiTaNsFaN

[Swigsfever]

Generally this class is viewed as a really good burst damage dealers in PvP, but terrible for sustained damage in PvE content. I would suggest stepping down the burst damage they can deal and improve the sustained damage they can put out in PvE content.

[wollegol]

I play heal spec

 

1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?

Good for pvp, lacking in AoE heal for PVE

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

For pvp I think its good, fast heals and some stuns, I´m having fun.

 

In PVE I´m doing fine, though if I would like something it would of course be able to raid heal as the sorc: keep the mecanics of our AoE the same but either make it heal 8 people instead of 4 OR heal the 4 people lowest on health

[tacito]

1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

Talking about Concealment:

1) I think in PvP many people have no idea what a current operative plays like. Some think I can stun them for 8 seconds straight, while eating away 90% of their hitpoints. The knockdown seems to be a no go for many. In PvE, I've never seen anyone care about operatives.

 

2) Concealment is fun in PvE, sometimes frustrating in PvP. The basic ability set seems a bit limited at times during encounters.

 

Talking about Lethality:

1) I've never seen anyone actually discuss lethality specced operatives in either PvP or PvE. So I guess as soon as I don't have a knockdown, nobody cares about operatives.

 

2) Lethality is a fun spec ability-wise, I just wish a lot of the talents that make Concealment fun to me (increased stealth level, shorter Cloaking Screen CD) were available to me. I also think the spec would greatly profit from some improved means of tracking your dots on a target. Without external help, on a boss with a lot of debuffs going on, it can be difficult to tell the difference between a normal dot and a weak version. Or just track my dots at all. Makes this spec frustrating as well at times.

[AruthaWolf]

Healing:

1. Too many skills which can be used even if main skill is interrupted.

2. Perfect amount stuns completely lock us down but interrupts don't. They make us sweat and pray for a TA proc off our Hots. Other healers should be more slightly raised to our standard. Some skill based on Luck which can save your ***.

 

Concealment:

1. High burst in PvP, laughable running speed due to always having to be in Stealth.

2. The high burst has been removed in last patch so i think the dps is in a good place, it is lacking a viable gap closer and reliance on stealth coupled with leaving combat mechanics cause problems.

Solution 1: CastTimeStealth Solution 2: GapCloserShadowstep

 

Lethality:

1. People don't notice the difference.

2. Worse than concealment and no different interesting mechanics make this spec useless. Would be interesting if this spec could actually work on 10 yards range completely but reliance on Shiv makes it into a fully melee spec again which is a shame.