Class Feedback

[BryTurner]

1. How do you think your Guardian spec is perceived by other classes?

 

My Defense spec'd Guardian is perceived by my peers as perfectly fine as far as damage mitigation and cool downs are concerned, However overall damage output in both PvE and PvP has moved Tanking Guardians away from 31pt Defense builds to a 17pt Defense 24pt Vigilance Hybrid. There is no incentive to be a 31pt Defense Tank in PvP in their opinion.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

I thoroughly enjoy the play-style my Guardian is known for. I am proficient at each of the 3 talent trees and enjoy the class overall. As a PvE tank which has cleared all raid content on the highest difficulty levels (NIghtmare EV & KP, Hardmode EC) Defense spec'd Guardians need damage output on par with Shadow Kinetic Combat Tanks and Shield spec'd Vanguards. Threat generation and AoE tanking is ok now for skilled tanks.

[jedimastercbb]

I'm specced as tank and do plenty of LFG stuff on it.

 

1. How do you think your Guardian spec is perceived by other classes?

 

I really get no feedback from anyone so I guess they perceive it as neither particularly good nor particularly bad. Just another tank, I guess.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

The Guardian / Tank playstyle is a ton of fun. I just wish the class were better at gathering / holding AOE threat.

 

The guardian was a great choice of advanced classes but i wish there were more because all i see is senitals

[Moozhe]

I am a tank spec Guardian.

 

1. How do you think your Guardian spec is perceived by other classes?

 

As a melee tank with limited force abilities, I think I am perceived as being bad for tanking trash and spread out mobs, but good against a single target.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

I think there are too many generic attack abilities. I count about 8 single target melee abilities in my rotation. It should be around 5. Complexity != Depth.

[Aienir]

1. How do you think your Guardian spec is perceived by other classes?

 

I am a Vigilance specc'ed Guardian and I know that my class as DPS is perceived by many to be subpar for Ranked Warzones due to all of my heaviest damage dealing abilites being white damage and therefore mitigate-able. I know that generally for anything else, the class is perceived very well for ops and for regular warzones, but there is a bias against them due to it still being perceived as not as good as other classes.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

I love my guardian and love proving people wrong. I think that as far as PVE, the DPS guardian is fine in terms of damage, as in raid ops the only class that can out DPS is is a sentinal, and they should be doing more damage than me. However, I do feel that we have much less survivability or utility that we bring to the table. A sentinal who times his cooldowns is just as durable as a guardian is while dishing out much more damage (be it in PVP or PVE). Our new cooldown, Focused Defense is not anywhere near as good as it should be. That cooldown tried to combine an aggro drop, a damage reduction and a heal all rolled into one. While in theory it worked, it makes us unable to do damage while its active, since focus generation has another sink into it and the self heal is made redundant since the only time we get healed is if we take damage, and any damage that is done to us is way more than that heal is worth. We have little durability in comparison to a sentinal, and don't have any raid wide utility that is truly useful, as a guardian tank/gunslinger/commando can do the sunder armor better and faster than you can.

 

However, aside from that negativity, I love the look and feel of the guardian. In normal warzones I can do truly amazing damage, though it takes monstrous effort (in comparision to a vanguard/gunslinger/sentinal) and most of the time requires a healer on you a lot since heavy armor does little to nothing in this game. In raids, I do the most single target damage aside our resident sentinal (though i pass gunslingers which might need to have a look at). What i would like is maybe a bit more AOE damage, maybe make force sweep slightly more powerful, and fix it so that it works like the juggernaut so that when we get knocked back mid animation it still hits the target.

[Sowell]

1) Others look at us as the worst tanks in the game.

 

2) We can tank all content in the game, but our group and ourselves have to work harder for it. After playing an assassin tank, I can say with confidence that the Guardian requires more skill to play. We are withing striking distance of all the bars the other tanking classes have set, but unfortunately we are last in everything. If you are last in everything it doesn't matter if you can handle the task given to you, your still last. Something has to give, either or damage has to be better, our active mitigation has to be better, or our passive mitigation has to be better.

[Moondragon]

1. How do you think your Guardian spec is perceived by other classes?

For the vets/hardcore, the impression is that I'm just not as reliable a tank as Vanguards or Shadows. To the common player (or casual), I'm fine. They have no complaints.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

Undefined. I've read enough about Guardians specialization in Defense instead of Shield, but I don't feel it. I still feel like I get hit quite a bit and maybe the adjustment to defense is not high enough or that there's not enough compensation for other types of damage. In turn, I feel that I take much more damage then other classes (especially vs. explosives). I feel as if the Guardian should be that middle ground between the Shadow (which to me seems as if it should be high dodges and parry's) and the Vanguard (Pure shield and shield absorb) but it feels like it's the lesser of them both at times.

[GarfieldJL]

Vigilence Guardian

 

1. How do you think your Guardian spec is perceived by other classes?

 

I think this is a mixed bag, I think we are underestimated at times as far as the damage we can dish out, but we are overestimated on just what all we can take as far as punishment. From a PvE standpoint up until 1.3's group finder, instant I mentioned I was a DPS guardian, people would say thanks but no thanks.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

That it needs serious work, yes our class can dish out some impressive numbers, but a lot of it is highly dependent on several factors. The chief problem with the vigilence spec is survivability, a lot of players don't like to admit this, but vigilence's survival ability or lack thereof was why many vigilence guardians relied on sorseu instead of shien. I know vigilence isn't the tank tree. but from a survival standpoint we are the most fragile melee dps in this game. Furthermore, while I understand the idea behind the threat dump skill posing as a self heal, it isn't really what the class needed. So overall, I would say that vigilence is subpar compared to other classes and their skill trees, not because of damage output, but because of the fact we have to take hits that other classes don't simply by the fact we have to be close in.

 

I know that you wanted only a brief commentary, but I think this needs to be addressed, I think Defience should be transferred over to the Defense tree since Vigilence is a DPS tree the objective is not to play tank it is to DPS, and we should have a defensive skill that is tied to shien replacing it to up the survivability factor so we can handle the hits well enough to dish out the damage, especially since we don't exactly have a cc.

[Aerich]

As a tank spec'd Guardian:

 

1. I wouldn't presume to speak for others. All the info I have on this question is that all of the healers in my guild grumble and groan when they get stuck with a Guardian tank (pugs or even me). They've said Guardian tanks are more spikey in soaking up damage take a lot more damage on the early part of the pull and have massive threat issues.

 

2. If I have to keep this super short then I would sum up Guardian tanking as "twice the effort for half the performance" when compared to the other tanks (I have all 3). Stupidly complex ability rotation (holy ability bloat Batman!), starting most fights with zero resources, almost non-existent range ability, and even after the threat change holding AoE threat is teeth grinding, makes for a very unfun play experience. Much less ability to control the battlefield than the other tanks.

[Psyclic]

1. How do you think your Guardian spec is perceived by other classes?

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

Defence Spec - PvE

 

1. Good all round tank but severly lacking in AoE threat, perfect for boss fights but shocking for trash thaqt isnt already grouped up.

 

2. I love my guardian. I main tank EC HM and do not have issues on any boss. Trash and in general I would like something that had a bit more range, maybe give us a talent to reduce the CD on saber throw and increase its threat, possibly hit more targets as well. Talent might be Reduces the CD of saber throw by 2/4/6 sec. Sabre Throw now strikes an additional nearby target* and generates 20/40/60% more threat

*Make it smart AoE though

[prodigyqnz]

1. How do you think your Guardian spec is perceived by other classes?

 

I feel as if some people see Jugg/Guardian as a Great class they that only Good players can play well, that do well and you have to know your class and if you dont do well you just suck. And some people see Jugg/Guardian as a class that no one should play only good on paper Its an iconic looking class with all the goods you may want but has no business in the game. One is a Jugg/Guardian player who just refuses to admit they just outclassed, the other is the rest of the community.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

I see my spec as this..Every Other Class Is "Built To Win", Jugg/Guardian is "Built to Fail" I love Jugg/Guardian. It was the first class I rolled at launch. Too many time I had to run to the Skill Mentor in the last 6months of gaming. To try and get something that I am lacking because some class is exploiting a weakness my spec just doesn't cover. No other class in this game has to come up with and create rediculous hybrids just to be viable. Or Be geared to the hilt with the best min/maxing ever thought of just to be almost as good as some other class wearing gear straight off the vendor with no changes.

 

Focus/Rage Spec: Brilliant AOE damage. Single target is non existent. Utility also non existent. Def Cooldowns Non existent. Easily nullified with knockbacks, pulls , stuns,and other CC because Unremitting/Unstoppable is 12pts Deep in another tree.

 

Vigilance/Vengeance Spec: Great Hutball Carrier, Ok Single Target damage in a perfect storm of events, If this is this then blah blah is activated. Its actual kinda stupid. Too many contingencies when other classes can roll their face across the keyboard and blow up the universe.

 

Defense/Immortal Spec: Complete Joke. If you want to tank go back up to Vig and use Soresu. Don't bother with the tank gear because it don't help. All of the goodies you would want for this spec are in the DPS tree. We dont get any form of Endurance increase. No True Shield buff if shielding even worked in pvp.

 

Defense is no better than other classes DPS Survivability. 12 Pts Deep to get a Terrible Terrible D/C Warding Call/Invincible. 40% DR for 10 Seconds every 2 Minutes. WHAT?!? But Sentinels who arent tanks get 99% DR for 5 seconds EVERY 90 SECONDS OR LESS!! Some sents may say but it cost 50% hp..

 

Big whoop you bout to die you got 500 hp or less hit this boom you down to 250 and you are now truely invincible to **** face for 5 more seconds AND STILL GET HEALED!!!!!!! Why does a jugg/guardian tank have to spec into Def Cooldown that is worse than what other classes get for FREE!!! Oh yea and not to mention some specs

get 30% AOE Damage mitigation..

 

Jugg/Guardian's own abilities work against them.

 

Force Leap " Cannot Be Used Against Targets In Cover " What the frack? You mean to tell me this person is shooting at me.. I can see him but because he is in " COVER " I cant jump up to where he is? That doesnt even make sense.

 

Especially since majority of our abilities are proc'd by Leap. So not only can we not jump up there.. This person in cover can root us in place and blast away at us unopposed. If we do manage to get anywhere near them.. they can just knock us back out of 4m Range that we normally have to be in.. and root us again.. and be immune to any interupt we may try to use to protect ourselves. Is that a Jedi ? I dont think so. And its definately no "Juggernaut or Guardian" also its a 10-30m Range so you can't be too close or to far away.. Another Contingency move.

 

Let's List those Blasted Contingency moves shall we...

Force Leap (if not in cover, If 10-30m)

Saber Throw (if 10-30m)

Dispatch/Vic Throw (if below 30% Currently broken sometimes says "Not Ready")

Focus/Enraged Def (if Taking Damage eats one focus to restore 3% max hp)

Riposte/Retaliation (after successfully defending attack)

Plasma Brand/Shatter (if Sundered)

And on and on...

 

Just why..

 

Where is the Saber Reflection abilities its animated but its crap. Where is the Def Cooldown that say " Reduce damage taken by 60% or so... and Reflects it back to the enemy for 10 seconds or something.

Why do I have to fire Riposte/Retalition why is it not passive.

 

 

All I can say is Built to Fail Developers have gone out of their way not to make Jedi/Sith so overwhelming force like they are in the movies that they have completely Gimped out the Considerably Iconic version of the class which the Jugg/Guardian was modelled after.

 

Sadly I love this class over all others.. Even with its faults..

 

Again.. Built To Fail..

[leto_cleon]

1. How do you think your Guardian spec is perceived by other classes?

 

PVP - Defence Guardian have a lot of utility in huttball.

PVE - Full Defence Guardian have the lowest health and DPS for the same gear level as other tanks and are handicapped by the lack of operations boss positioning abilities and are hence less likely to be the main tank.

PVE - Vigilance Guardians lack any form of CC and are hence less useful in clearing mobs in flashpoints and operations

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

PVE - Full Defence Guardians DPS is really too weak post-1.3 and the smart AoE from Guardian Slash is really not as effective as it should be. The lack of an anti-knockback is also really annoying especially when you get ping-ponged by trash mobs.

 

PVE - Vigilance Guardians are just lacking in DPS post-1.3

 

(Slightly off point: There's also too many procs to watch. It hampers enjoying all the hard work put into all the cool ability animations.)

[Midden]

1) How do you think your Guardian Spec is perceived by other players?

Defence Guardian.

- DPS the lowest of all tanks. Proved by MOX parser to be 20- 30% less than Shadow tank. Raid leaders who use MOX know this. My guild leaves this advance class out of OPS with close enrage timers, if the other tanks are available. Especially in the case of Nightmare pilgrim.

- Tanking ability (threat + defence) is ok and comparable to other tanks.

 

2) How do you percieve your own spec. Defence Guardian - Tank gear

- Fun to play.

- DPS too weak compared to other tanks, therefore prone to be excluded from OPs in compeditive Guilds if other Tank type available.

- PVP Defence Guardian is a bad joke - Defence spec in tank gear has little survivability to balance and offset the weak DPS - to compensate most players use Soresu hybrid with DPS gear so they can guard but still kill - this tells you all you need to know...... that the Defence Guardian advanced class with tank gear, option, for players is broken / unviable in PVP.

 

Note:

- AOE threat is a complete non-issue and I wish other players would stop bringing this non issue up.

 

- DPS being so low is this advance classes biggest issue.

 

- Also as others say, the top tier of the defence tree needs work to make it more desirable ... why are the good defence things unremmitting and commanding AWE in the Vig tree? Why did you nerf damage of hilt strike and Guardian slash?

 

Thanks for asking for feedback.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Midden
spelling

[Karasuko]

1. Peoples perspective isn't good " we want a real dps sorry"

2. I like my guardian, I flit back and forth between focus and vigi. DPS is actually ok, but theres no really big hits that vigi has (with my gear level) I'd like to try tanking to test these rumors that JK tanks are "bad" but don't have the time to regear.

[Suzume_Bachi]

I've played Guardian in DPS and Tank spec.

 

* Guardian is sometimes considered weaker than other tank classes and less desired.

* DPS Guardian has a weak output and lower survival the higher I go. Allegedly it's supposed to be within %5 or Sentinel/Marauder... but even a short time playing marauder will reveal the total difference in the facemelting capability of the sentinel. People who see a DPS guardian are usually disappointed.

* Legacy gear gives a good alternative to the usual choice of brown hobo blanket but... honestly.

 

* Overhead slash... looks silly.

* Master strike: The only Master who would be able to pull off turning his back on an opponent is Zatoichi, and that's because he's blind and uses his ears.

 

I like the story and the one-handed style, but I think I may regret going Guardian.

 

So, tl;dr: We're not wanted as tanks because other classes tank better. We're not wanted as DPS because our DPS is nowhere near what a party or op can have if they boot you and choose a better DPS class. Basically, we're the stepchild class.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Suzume_Bachi

[WardLorrail]

I play a guardian tank (32 points in defense).

 

1) 8 think people think my spec is not an ideal tank. They think threat is too low or dps.

 

2) I love my class/spec. The new guardian slash plus force sweep means every mob in reach has 5 stacks of armor debuff to start the fight. My spec/class choice has never cost us downing a HMOP boss.

[Cameirus]

1. How do you think your Commando spec is perceived by other classes?

useless, particualrly in dmg, it sucks

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

"I'm hitting them, why is their health not dropping?"

[Angevord]

1. How do you think your Guardian spec is perceived by other classes?

 

PVE - as moderate tank (depends on full team setup)

PVP - as cannon fodder

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

PVE - Im playing Guardian since the beginnig and still have sometimes troubles to keep aoe agro

PVP - its a devs joke especially for these players who had chosed War Leader set. Did anyone from devs team try this class on warzones ? I doubt it. I bet 1000 $ that NOONE has tested guardian on warzones. So, do it guys - try to defending turrets against Powertech, try to survive with Your full augmented War leader set. Try it by yourself - and You will clearly see how much guardian class is broken - heavy armor=means nothing, high defense chance- means nothing, dmg mitigation - its a joke.

[syllepsis]

1. How do you think your Guardian spec is perceived by other classes?

 

Don't know.

 

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

My Guardian is tank spec'd. It's fine. It's exactly what I was expecting, having played warriors in WoW for many years. I have not played my guardian much since 1.3, but I do find its implementation of push-pull game play (build focus to expend focus) a but cumbersome. AOE tanking is also a bit of a pain. No real deficiencies but it could be tweaked.

[Soapland]

1. Dps specs. Outclassed by maras and powertechs. What a dps guardian can do, a mara does better and with group buffs.

 

2. No matter how hard i try, i can't match powertech/vanguard damage, its no where close to within 5%, more like 15% to 20%. I'm taking about a pvp setting here, since i don't pve. I am full war hero and i am routinely trounced by my guildies in damage at the end of the warzone, even when i forgo objectives, taunting and guarding and just dive in non-stop i just can't match gunslingers, sents and vanguards. If i get 600k, the gunslinger gets a million, its not close. Also, specifically for focus spec, ever since 1.2, focus sents do nearly the same burst with sweep while being more survivable. It just irks me a little that my fav spec is done better by the sent when the popular consensus is that the sent's two exclusive specs are better than focus anyway.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Soapland

[Usbus]

 

1. How do you think your Guardian spec is perceived by other classes?

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

 

1. Most people don't like guardian tanking as compared to Shadow or Vanguard. Taking aggro and keeping it isn't really the easiest thing to do. So most people throw the Guardian aside for just a PvP class that lasts quite awhile.

 

2. Guardian's just need to get a little more aggro control. Maybe throw in a force pull instead of force push. It doesn't make sense to throw someone away, just to leap at them again. When you throw someone away, they have more of a chance to get someone else's aggro and attack them, since they're out of the melee range of the Guardian.

[TonyDragonflame]

50 lvl Guardian here, much more PvP than PvE, half-WH augumented

 

1. How do you think your Guardian spec is perceived by other classes?

 

For "enjoy of playing" in terms DPS/surviveability (= medals from WZ):

 

Vangard dps, Vangard tank, Sentinel, Shadow tank, Gunslinger > Guardian dps/hybrid = Sage dps = Shadow dps > Scoundrel dps = Guardian tank = Commando dps

 

So, between tanks: shadow tank, vangard tank >> guardian tank.

 

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

I try playing 31/10/0, 7/32/2, but finally choose hybrid 16/25/0.

Dps guardians looks like poor bad Sentinels in WZ, tank guardians cant compared with vangards tanks and shadow tanks.

 

"Threat generation" dont work in PvP. Shield dont work in PvP. Taunts as "hey, change your attention/targetting on me" dont work in PvP, and damage reducing from taunt so short in time. Self-healing from Focused defence quite low - cant healing incoming damage, and its for high cost of focus, cannot use without focus. Self-healing from Enure quite joke, you'll die after using.

 

In PvP works only damage, but damage output quite low, especially after 1.3 nerf of SSM.

 

One thing great for guardians - its storyline.

Edited July 18, 2012 by TonyDragonflame

[Furyangel]

Lvl 50 Def spec Guardian.

 

1. How do you think your Guardian spec is perceived by other classes?

In PVE I am told that it is the easiest class to heal as we have more damage mitigation than others. However we are perceived as having real issues holding aggro.

 

In PVP I don't think others perceive us as survivalists or a threat, just low DPS class to focus down quickly to knock our guard off the healers.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

In PVE I think the Guardian is well rounded, though I would agree regarding aggro. In 1.3 threat generation was supposed to have increased but I am not seeing any noticable difference. 2 taunts are too little, especially with the long cooldown of AOE taunt which is very situational.

 

In PVP I love Guardian as it has so much utility in Def spec. I have so many skills that it is always fun regardless of warzone, however I think our survivability could do with a boost, given that burst damage has increased post 1.3 and stacking power augments just makes it worse (a DPS race).

[Khaaaaaaaan]

1. How do you think your Guardian spec is perceived by other classes?

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

1. I play a tank spec, and the general perception is that it has trouble holding aggro, doesn't have enough hit points, and does too little damage compared to other tank classes.

2. I was surprised with this character going all the way to 50 at how much I felt like I didn't have the tools to do a good job tanking. I'm unlikely to play it again unless it gets some major help doing its job.

[Cleet_Xia]

I play a 31/10/0 sage healer as a main & a lvl 44 guardian tank as an alt

 

All of this is for PvE, as I've not PvP'd my guardian.

 

How do others percieve the class?

When I'm healing with my main I feel that the guardian has the best utility as a single target tank for boss fights. It doesn't require the level of skill required to be an effective shadow tank. And most shadows don't have that level of skill. Likewise, they hold threat better than vanguards on single targets, and the ranged dps don't get bruised as much. But the spec can have problems holding aggro when paired with a seninel or shadow dps. Still I'd really prefer a properly specced and geared for the content Guardian over any other tank. The downside to guardians is how impatient most players of guardians are to get from one fight to the next.

 

How do I percieve the class?

 

Having played a guardian- I now understand why guardians appear to be so impatient. Because tanking with my guardian can be a RUSH. It's easy to get amped up, and when I'm grouped with a player healer. I'm almost always in fighting shape, at the end of the battle. And the way my resource mechanic works rewards me for getting back in the fight as fast as possible~ backward to everyone elses....

 

It's strange... i have to use my push to position mobs for chains of AoE hits - or I can't maintain threat on multiple targets. The AoE taunt doesn't build threat at all, just forces a short target change by mobs. I have to get several hits in on every mob- or I've got no threat. This isn't an issue with melee mobs who will group up for some AoE hits, but it's a mess with packs of ranged mobs. If they are lined up, I can leap to 1 side, and and hit each of them enfilade. But if they are in a box formation, or surprise adds show up in weird spots.... it's going to be a messy fight.

[Skroting]

Solely based on pvp

 

1. How others see the guardian.

 

I do believe people are underestimating the guardian, seeing as i find a guardian filling the tank role in a pvp group to be the most efficient at just that. When needed i will switch over to a defensive build, and i will pretty much feel invincible. As for the dps specs, i do believe i've made a few healers rage on my vigilance build, but at the same time, it looks as though competent players will often be able to counter this, and from there on i will be little more than a fly on the wall as far as they are concerned. When it comes to focus spec, it feels like people are recognizing me as a much larger threat. This may very well be my own fault, seeing as i play rather agressively, but i tend to be pretty high on the "damage taken" list, and it may look like people are trying harder to shut me down fast.

 

2. What i thinkg about the guardian.

 

I haven't really played the tank spec that much, all i know is that when i do, i will survive a ****-ton of beating, and it feels good. As a vigilance the average damage capabilties seems pretty fair, but when matched with somewhat skilled opponents, they seem to loose a lot of their edge. There have been tons of great ideas on how to improve this spec, some who i feel are quite viable. As for the focus spec, i feel like there are a few minor issues that should be improved upon. As focus i feel that the guardian is way to squishy for a heavy armored, single-saber wielding melee class. I wouldn't suggest anything drastical, but the way it is now feels to feeble. Other than that i would love to see some quality of life improvements, such as knockbacks not "interrupting" the one damage output we have, and at the same time locking it out for the next 12 seconds. There have been countless times where i would use the ability, and get knocked back while still hanging in the air, making the cooldown activate, yet having the ability deal no damage. (I've been knocked back, landing smack down on the middle of another enemy, yet the damage was not registered on the intended target, nor the opponent that was standing where i landed after the knockback. Not quite sure where the actual damage was activated)