TheBBP Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 This. On the other hand, I have a problem with peeps who put up everything at the default sell price that the GTN sets and don't even bother to check out the going rate, thereby undercutting everyone by a factor of 5x or 10x simply because they made millions upon millions of credits the first two months the game was live due to poor game design. I have a guildmate who watches the market for this. He often finds deals and plops the items in the guild bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBBP Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 (edited) Says you. An augment kit requires 10 crafted items to be RE'd plus materials on top of that... I stocked up but still there is time and effort to factor in and I value my time and effort. An augment requires 4 purples and a few other materials. You will be lucky to get a crit hit if you have slicing 1 time out of 10... Total cost is about 40k plus time = about 100k per augment. Anything less than that and it isn't worth the time or effort to make them. You also have to figure in the recoup costs of just trying to learn the augments. To me 100k-110k is fair. This allows me to keep my stock on hand up and earn a small profit. 90k is break even point. Under 90k and the person is actually spending more than he is getting back. A person doing this is just trying to get rid of what they have and after they are gone the market will adjust back up. You charge 40k for the price of sending out the mats then value the time it takes to click to send your companions out on those same missions at a charge of 60k? I would be undercutting you every time. Edited July 14, 2012 by TheBBP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael_Peres Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 This is basic economics. If market is flooded prices will drop, that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammylink Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 It's a buyers market. If options were added for auction with or without buyout, then the sellers wouldn't have to cut each other so deep. You can't expect to keep selling one item for the same price indefinitely anyway. The more time that passes, the more people there will be that can make any given thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mothear Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 You charge 40k for the price of sending out the mats then value the time it takes to click to send your companions out on those same missions at a charge of 60k? I would be undercutting you every time. So much this. Sellers seem to be in the mindset that they are taking an hour to get the materials. Err no you aren't you are sending out a companion and getting on with what you were doing before, this ain't WoW where farming takes your personal time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calerxes Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Just because EVE boasts areas of its economy that are simulated does not mean its economic system, as a whole, is simulated. As I stated, I have not played the game but based on what I've been told, and on what I've read since you posted this reply, it comes really close to a true economic system. The value of EVE's Interstellar Kredit is based on the wealth that exists within the game's economy, wealth generated and represented almost entirely by tradeable goods, both gathered and player-created. This is the key of a true economic system: the currency must be representative of goods and sometimes services present within the system. The value of the currency must be representative of wealth. As you noted this is not always the case in EVE, but the majority of the game's economic transactions function on this premise. In fact, one of the reasons the game employs an economist is to keep tabs on the effect generated currency has on the economy. In order to ensure it does not sway the game's economy to a simulated system, they seek to equalize the quantity of generated currency units with that of generated goods and items. The currency in EvE is Isk and it is acquired in exactly the same way as in all MMO's including SW:TOR by NPC mission running, mining ore to sell to NPC factions or rat running NPC pirates for cargo to sell to NPC factions (basically grinding mobs) it is taken out of the game via Insurance for your ships, paying for clones (you have to have these otherwise its virtually permadeath if you get podded), upkeep on player run space stations and paying for the use of factories to craft. The problem EvE has had is that to do anything in the game requires Isk and lots of it. Its worse than SW:TOR because to advance everything is bought, skills, ships, clones, insurance, ammo, fitting out your ship etc... so a new player finds it hard and boring to grind Isk in the early stages, this in turn has fueled the Isk sellers that have been rampant in EvE for years so CCP attempted to curb this but introducing Plex's a way to fund your game time with in game money. A plex is just another name for selling gamecards legally in game for Isk. But the economy real or simulated is not conducive to new players and has had massive inflation for years for high end ships cost hundreds of millions to buy so many corporation will give you ships and Isk if you join to help newbies get a leg up, but expect to work for your new corp to pay for their generosity, also some players randomly give money to new players as well. I thought you might be interested in that as we seem to missing each others points here but thanks for the insight into economies anyway. And if you are looking for a game and economy to get your teeth into and you like games to be an intellectual challenge EvE's your game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FITorion Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I'm only just starting to play the GTN. There does not seem to be a convenient way to check what things are selling for. If when I place an item in the box to sell... a list came up of what prices that item is currently or in the recent past been listed at... then I would put my price at those prices. Right now If I want to check the prices... I switch over to buy... type in a search... hope there are any being sold at all or I'm out of luck... I don't bother with it. What ever the GTN sets as the default price for my item is... the price of my item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Advent Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 This discussion makes me wonder if Tinybaby/Babyhead ever bought a TOR account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxfetish Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Just take bioanalysis, scavenging, and archeology and put everything up on the AH. I did this with my first character and had 2 million credits by the time I was level 25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavensAgent Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I thought you might be interested in that as we seem to missing each others points here but thanks for the insight into economies anyway. And if you are looking for a game and economy to get your teeth into and you like games to be an intellectual challenge EvE's your game.Generally if you have true inflation of a currency, there's a good chance you might be looking at a real economic system. I considered playing Eve for a while; the economics involved really do appeal, but the travel times quashed any desire to play the game at that point, and since then nothing has really inspired me to look at the title again. That's one of the reasons I cannot wait for Pathfinder Online: a Sandbox MMORPG with a real economy and no massive galaxy you have to traverse. Still, thanks for the conversation; it's hard to interpret economic theory for someone lacking the background, but I hope you got something out of our dialog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtsdad Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Yes it is in this case. You are taking the money other people worked on to get (by questing for instance). The difference of cred between the cost of production (mats, etc) and the profit is imaginary in this game. You just think you are entitled to get some money from someone else because you did it. We could all just get money from selling stuff at cost + questing/dailying. Like I do, and I am never lacking money. It is also cool to sell stuff cheap or just plain give them away. Makes you feel happy more people are getting otherwise expensive goodies and experiencing more the game. But enough of my MMO-adapted Marxism. Who knew the President playerd SWTOR. Drive on Marxist. Drive on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcrirTwyLar Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 So, I sold 3 Advanced Skill augment 22's on the GTN for 130k each earlier, after I made a few more, someone was sellling one for 130k so I put mines up for 129k, then I check back later, and unlike me reducing price 1k, people have been putting up sales for 130k 120k 105k 90k, why oh why? They sell fast enough, there's really no need to drop them so much in price it's just not needed.. As im being pretty specific about it being Advanced Skill aug 22, I'd imagine this goes on for alot of other items in-game... Anyway, had some time to kill so figured i'd vent a little heat on the forums If they sell so well, why did you undercut the person. You could have priced it the same and both made a sale just fine. But you had to start a price war by undercutting them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DenitharPurloin Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 So, I sold 3 Advanced Skill augment 22's on the GTN for 130k each earlier, after I made a few more, someone was sellling one for 130k so I put mines up for 129k, then I check back later, and unlike me reducing price 1k, people have been putting up sales for 130k 120k 105k 90k, why oh why? They sell fast enough, there's really no need to drop them so much in price it's just not needed.. As im being pretty specific about it being Advanced Skill aug 22, I'd imagine this goes on for alot of other items in-game... Anyway, had some time to kill so figured i'd vent a little heat on the forums So, while you were busy under-cutting the competition via the "nickle and dime" method...someone was busy actually undercutting you. And then you thought you would come to the forums for a chance to...... 1- Expose yourself as the exact person I would intentionally NOT buy from? (1K discount over seeing you frown...your frown is worth 5K at least) 2- Find some emotional support? 3- Remind people to check their own prices to ensure they undercut you again? I'm sorry I lost the whole meaning of this thread...carry on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cupelixx Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 On The Harbinger, Advanced Neural Augmentors are selling for 18k. It takes 4 to make one purple augment. That's 72k not counting the other components that are needed. Granted, those can be farmed on your own, but that becomes time invested. People are selling these augments for 80k. If you buy all of the components yourself, you barely make a profit. Even if you rely on slicing crits to obtain the augmentors yourself, you're still sinking a lot of credits into it, hoping you'll get lucky and have your companions crit. If you don't have an army of max affection slicers, you're going to be spending a bit of time waiting on those crits. It's already getting to the point on The Harbinger where the components are more expensive than the finished good, and that is a shame. Undercutting by so much or purposely tanking a market means your own profit goes down in the long run. People want their instant gratification and will undercut as far as they have to so they get it, but there's not much that can be done. I will make what I can and once people ruin the market, I will move on to something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elkirin Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Which server needs the travelling discount merchant again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lironBD Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 As many ppl posted before me.. when you see a cheap price for great item you buy it an re-list it on higher price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackavaar Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Simple answer, because some people are greedy bastages and others aren't. Deal with it Scrooge McDuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gullets Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Yes it is in this case. Sorry... but no. Sadly, welfare and public assistance seems to make everyone think that they're entitled to everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gullets Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) 1- Expose yourself as the exact person I would intentionally NOT buy from? (1K discount over seeing you frown...your frown is worth 5K at least) lol i purposefully do this as well. I'll always pay alittle extra to not buy from one of those nickle & dime undercutters. Edited July 17, 2012 by gullets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socialist Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Sorry... but no. Sadly, welfare and public assistance seems to make everyone think that they're entitled to everything. This has nothing to do with welfare and public assistance. Nor with the direct opposite, the Destiny Manifesto paragons and their Laissez Faire. But then again, you probably don't even know what you are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjskull Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Lol. at most of this thread. L2Microeconomics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socialist Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Who knew the President playerd SWTOR. Drive on Marxist. Drive on. Actually, I'm rather busy to play this. A young White House hardworking secretary runs the whole planet I am currently in just leveling, but he doesn't do the class quests. When I'm off duty I re-run the planet doing only the class quests. One of the various perks a President get y'know. But being more serious, Obama is as Marxist as the cheese sandwich I just made. He's Keynesian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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