Mouseover Healing

[ErrantMercenary]

It's kind of like the difference between those who like controllers in FPS, and those who like mouse-and-keyboard. It's just a different control scheme. The people with the mouse-and-keyboard aren't cheating in order to be better than those who use controllers, or vice-versa.

 

 

This exact thing is exactly why mouseover healing needs to be a default option. I understand BioWare's position of avoiding addons at launch and that if they could avoid a Healbot situation (which frankly, made my job boring as all get out in WoW), I think they're right to try.

 

The problem is the Controller v. Keyboard debate is absolutely one sided. Game developers have tested it. There is a MEASURABLY higher average input-to-action time on a controller/game pad and lower overall precision when measured against a keyboard and mouse scheme. It's why games like Call of Duty and most notably Halo on consoles feature a lot of soft aim assist and mild viewsnapping to compensate for the fact that aiming is slower and sloppier on consoles.

 

 

Getting back to how this is relevant to TOR: If the UI is static (namely I can't move my party frame from the left side of the screen), click targeting or function key targeting will always have a higher average input-to-action time than mouseover healing, because you either have to strike an extra key to get healing, move your mouse from the middle of the screen (where you were previously targeting an enemy), THEN click, THEN heal.

 

 

One of my favorite things about the two instances I got to see in beta was that as a healer, I wasn't committed 100% to healing round the clock (unlike my Shaman in say, Wrath of the Lich King, where I was queueing up heals before the one I was on finished casting) and this meant a lot of target switching. I'm not complaining, it made the healing experience much more dynamic, difficult, and fun. This may change as I progress into raid content, but the sentiment does not: No one should ever face threat of death simply because my UI is sluggish.

 

If I'm unskilled, certainly. If I, personally, am too slow to react, absolutely. If I mistarget using mouseover, then, well, I was asking for it wasn't I? But no one should be dying because I had the right thought, made the right choice, at the right time, and my UI just couldn't translate it into gameplay fast enough.

 

If you dont want to use those tools, more power to you, but this is not a gamebreaking implementation we're asking for, and it will go along way in alleviating one of my most major concerns about this game's very barebones UI.

[kaelesto]

L2 Hotkeys

 

Anyone who knows how2mouseover knows how2hotkey, considering that the first requires the second.

[kaelesto]

I've healed in plenty of games without mouseover or click-to-cast functionality, including this one (up to level 30 in the beta). It's absolutely possible. But it's like stepping into a timewarp and going back to when I played FFXI

 

This. Exactly this.

 

Although since I played FFXI, I've sustained some injuries and have some joint and nerve damage in my left hand that makes function-key targeting unrealistic. Which makes mouseovers an important accessibility feature for me at endgame. I've already paid for the game, so I'm going to stick aroung and level, but if I get to 50 and there are still no mouseovers, I'm going to have to cancel my sub.

[Tamoka]

Mouse over healing is for bads. I also discussed this on the beta forums.

 

Mouse over healing is a very ""simple"" AddOn that does ""not cheat"" in any way, yea right.

 

First: you are able to keep your current target for interrupts etc.

Second: you are faster with response time because you don't have to click.

Third: IF Target of Target gets in the game, I have no idea who the hell you are going to heal.

 

Combine these factors in PvP for example, and you will be quite a lot faster with healing a teammate while interrupting your enemy, plus if target of target gets in your enemy will have no idea who you will heal. <- The fun thing is, you will be rewarded using your mouse, instead of using keybinds.

 

So, instead of going into the fail direction of WoW, where certain AddOns and Macro's gave you a pretty big example in PvP atleast. (thats why Blizzard bans AddOns at official PvP tournaments) Why don't we normalize it for everyone? Everyone has the same tools he/she needs to learn to play with.

 

No cookie cutter easy mode AddOns or Macro's, that way its much easier to balance PvE and PvP aswell, because all people have the same advantages/disadvantages without having to search the web for the best AddOns or Macro's out there.

[Twighlight]

Click healing is not new. It's "standard" in every MMO. However, it sucks. Just like the default keybindings, you would be really upset if you couldn't rebind your keys. The default keybindings simply sucks. Mouseover healing is not trivializing anything, it's simply a tool you use to become more fluid in your gameplay, and enjoy it more. Also the reason you use Focus Target casting to focus interrupt on for example an opposing healer in PvP. It's a tool.

 

"Standard" seems like a bit of an exaggeration. I am struggling to think of a game where click casting is available without add-ons. If you can name some, please do.

 

Click casting is much more than just targeting. If it is just about targeting...you can click on the person to target them. This is about the ability to cast a spell on a target without selecting them - sort of the opposite isn't it?

 

I understand that many have become reliant on click-casting, because they have had it in other games for so long. However, it is not 'necessary' to succeed. I have healed end-game content in pretty much every MMO without it. Would things have been easier for me if I had used click-casting, perhaps (though, I regularly outperformed people who used it).

 

A similar request is for more customizable unit frames. I can understand that request, because it is something that all healers are accustomed to. However, it is not game breaking.

 

This is a brave new world, and you will probably be happier if you work with what we have instead of trying to change the world into something that we are used to.

[Santaner]

good stuff

 

I like this post.

 

I was raised on click-casting for heals, but if there was an option for mouseover healing in TOR, I would give it a go. It just sounds so... comfortable.

 

Definitely not a deal breaker, though. You have to adapt or get left behind, pretty simple.

[pennitent]

Mouse over healing is for bads. I also discussed this on the beta forums.

 

Mouse over healing is a very ""simple"" AddOn that does ""not cheat"" in any way, yea right.

 

First: you are able to keep your current target for interrupts etc.

Second: you are faster with response time because you don't have to click.

Third: IF Target of Target gets in the game, I have no idea who the hell you are going to heal.

 

Combine these factors in PvP for example, and you will be quite a lot faster with healing a teammate while interrupting your enemy, plus if target of target gets in your enemy will have no idea who you will heal. <- The fun thing is, you will be rewarded using your mouse, instead of using keybinds.

 

So, instead of going into the fail direction of WoW, where certain AddOns and Macro's gave you a pretty big example in PvP atleast. (thats why Blizzard bans AddOns at official PvP tournaments) Why don't we normalize it for everyone? Everyone has the same tools he/she needs to learn to play with.

 

No cookie cutter easy mode AddOns or Macro's, that way its much easier to balance PvE and PvP aswell, because all people have the same advantages/disadvantages without having to search the web for the best AddOns or Macro's out there.

 

 

Because macros are not addons.

 

With your logic you can equate that clicking a button instead of writing out the slash command is inherent to cheating. The button turns one command into that slash command. Mouse over healing is really the same thing with the only difference of it having a targeting modifier.

 

Your same button does the same thing except that the targeting is done with a hover over as opposed to clicking on the target.

 

The addons that you are referring to have intelligent casting. We are not asking for that. We simply want to adjust the targeting modifier.

Edited December 14, 2011 by pennitent

[Macfergusson]

Mouse over healing is for bads. I also discussed this on the beta forums.

 

Mouse over healing is a very ""simple"" AddOn that does ""not cheat"" in any way, yea right.

 

First: you are able to keep your current target for interrupts etc.

Second: you are faster with response time because you don't have to click.

Third: IF Target of Target gets in the game, I have no idea who the hell you are going to heal.

 

Mouseover healing is not an AddOn.

 

Your first two points are the whole point of mouseover macros. Why that is a problem for you, I have no idea.

 

Your third point doesn't even make sense.

 

When playing a game, the UI's job is to facilitate interaction with the game. Any UI that makes it more difficult to play is not a feature, it is a poor design.

[Lilyalyn]

When playing a game, the UI's job is to facilitate interaction with the game. Any UI that makes it more difficult to play is not a feature, it is a poor design.

 

Well said.

 

This is making me nervous. Healing is my thing and I don't want to feel like I'm playing WoW again back before I knew what a macro was or how to download an addon. Yes it worked fine for me then, but to go back to clicking frames on the left side of my screen (I didn't play the beta, I don't know how healing works in this game at all)? Why would I want to feel like I'm regressing?

[gospelwut]

[...]

First: you are able to keep your current target for interrupts etc.

Second: you are faster with response time because you don't have to click.

Third: IF Target of Target gets in the game, I have no idea who the hell you are going to heal.

Yes, that is the point. It allows everybody to be "faster". You're still sitting on CDs/GCDs. It's not like the action of clicking isn't a buffer for me and not for you because "i'm bad". You can look at the swath of UX testing with touch screen platforms to show that clicking has an innate latency for everybody.

 

When and if encounters reach a point where 1s matters, I don't see a reason why clicking makes somebody a superior player. It's not going to make "bads" any better/worse at the game than "good players". It's only going to aid those that are already good.

Edited December 15, 2011 by gospelwut

[GunnyBob]

I am not going to pretend that I'm the uber-leet sexy haelzor who has played every game out there.

I've only healed WoW (Disc Priest) and Rift (Sent/Pur).

 

WoW grew to the point where you had to have add-ons. Multiple single target heals. A few AoE heals. Shields and mitigation. Buffs/debuffs/cleanses. The occasional Levitate as someone got picked up and dropped. And now and then you toss in a damage spell. (For those of you wondering why we are Dps'ing: Dps is required. It doesn't matter how well the fight goes, if your dps is 'zero' on recount someone in the pug starts commenting on how easy it must be to be a healer.)

Even with Healbot, it can be a challenge. Some of you make it sound like add-ons let us set the keyboard on the floor and just hit spacebar with our feet while we giggle. (Actually, there was this one guy in our guild, but that's a different forum post.)

 

Do I want this to be WoW? No, I do not. That's why I'm here and not playing WoW.

 

Rift's macros went a little too far. When I switch over to dps, my shaman has One button I need to hit. And I have 3 others for 'just in case': Shield, Heal, Mana. Then there's a few cooldowns if I fight something too tough. All of your attacks, 6sec CDs, and procs reduced to One button. My rogue has one for building combos, and one for finishing. My mage (only lvl 27) had his whole spell rotation stacked on one button, and a second button for when pyromancer's armor procced.

 

I do not want SW:TOR to be reduced to Rift, either. That's why I'm here and not in Rift anymore.

 

Mouseovers do not wreck the game. Macros, however, have the potential to. I'm ok with Bioware taking the wait and see approach with macros.

 

As far as mouseovers allowing you to heal without targeting and therefore being unfair in PVP: I don't PVP much. It does seem like all the protests against better healing techniques is coming from PVP DPS'ers. One thing: when you keep getting killed in PVP matches, before you yell at your healer for not keeping you up, remember you wanted this.

 

For the comments on Interface: I am still new here and was only in beta test for a couple days. But at level 10 I already had 11 combat abilities, 3 Buffs, a Rez, and a Medpack. My action bar is getting a little full and the UI is less than ideal. I want to be absorbed into this world, not be constantly reminded of the interface.

 

I play MMOs for fun. If healing isn't fun, then I'll level a JC Shadow up to 50 just to see the game and then I'll quit. I'm not trying to talk tough, it's just a fact.

 

At the end of the day only one thing matters: Is the game fun? I truly hope so.

[Rhelex]

Really?

 

If you can heal by hovering the cursor over a frame or player why not just press that button on your mouse whilst doing that to target them?

 

Admittedly I've never used mouse-over healing, but having played a healer in a variety of MMO games for over seven years I've never struggled in the slightest by targeting who I want abilities to go to

[Patmage]

I know my smuggler is staying dps until mouseover healing is added. I've been healing in MMO's for over a decade now. Most of those years were before games started having mouseover casting. I'm to the point where I'm just tired of playing wack-a-mole. In the later years of WoW and then in Rift I felt like I could actually contribute more than just healing to a group. My shaman could watch for interrupts, my druid could cc, and my Chloromancer could dps her heart out. All of this while seamlessly healing.

 

Hopefully the game isn't filled with people like me for sake of being able to find a decent healer, but all the great healers I knew in WoW and Rift swore by mouseovers so I'm not holding my breathe.

 

That said, I'm sure the game is manageable without it. If I'm going to be doing a mindless task though it might as well be something that helps me solo easier.

 

There was plenty of discussion on this all through beta, and to be honest I'm surprised (and a little bit saddened) that it didn't make it in for launch. It is one of those staples these days. It is hard to set the bar if you stumble over some of the lower hurdles.

[Aaoogaa]

Some people adapt and move on...some sit and cry about it. Mouse over is far from essential.

[naardejood]

To be honest, I've never used mouseover. I got used to healing without mouseover and just never felt like trying to swap over. All the other healers I've known throughout WoW, WAR and Rift have insisted I use it, but I don't need it in Hammerknell then I don't need it, period. I can see how it'd be aggravating to have to re-learn to heal without it, but I figure the best time to start would be with a new toon on a new game. Shouldn't take more than a few hours one day to get used to healing without it. Then you can impress everyone with how old-school you are.

[Patmage]

Some people adapt and move on...some sit and cry about it. Mouse over is far from essential.

 

Honestly though it is a video game. What is essential? If their stated goal is to provide an enjoyable experience in which to profit from, than anything that detracts from that goal could be described as essential.

 

By your definition you'd be happy sitting in a chat room playing a text based MUD as the graphics, voice actors, maps and sounds aren't really essential to an online interactive community.

 

The fact that there are already ways to set modifier keys to direct spells to self or a focus target means the code is already half way there. On the list of requests by the community this has to have a crazy high ratio between demand and actual man power required to implement.

[Aaoogaa]

Honestly though it is a video game. What is essential? If their stated goal is to provide an enjoyable experience in which to profit from, than anything that detracts from that goal could be described as essential.

 

By your definition you'd be happy sitting in a chat room playing a text based MUD as the graphics, voice actors, maps and sounds aren't really essential to an online interactive community.

 

The fact that there are already ways to set modifier keys to direct spells to self or a focus target means the code is already half way there. On the list of requests by the community this has to have a crazy high ratio between demand and actual man power required to implement.

 

Playing a healer commando in live. I have no issues with the healing system. As for your assumption of what I would like...in that scenario I would adapt and move on...to a different game. Mouse over healing is not needed and neither are the multitude of healer add on/ bot programs. PVP is supposed to be skill based.

[DJDizzy]

I never used mouseover healing in WoW or EQ for that matter, and I did pretty well. I dunno, maybe WoW just made some people complacent.

[Anxty]

So reading through all of this thread so far the general consensus for mouse over healing is because "it's easier" and "It's hard on my hands with the added clicking" and lets not forget "I can do other things like interrupts and dps". There doesn't seem to be any other argument for mouse over healing.

 

You can already assign a focus target and move your frames to the center of the screen. Here this will help http://torwars.com/2011/11/28/video-swtor-ui-tips-healing-frames-focus-target/

 

Isn't the fact that in WoW the developers are having a hard time making challenging content? How long did the latest wow patch take to clear? Could the reason be that they've enabled too much customization and macros for the player base making it easier. They have to design all their encounters around the fact that people have these addons and macros. Making them mandatory for those of us that prefer to play without them.

[Maxvla]

Mouseover is essential for efficient healing. Mandatory, imo.

 

I'll play with it as it is, but I won't be as good of a healer until mouseover is added. The half seconds of saved clicks really add up.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Maxvla

[Keller]

50% of healing is reading the fight and time your heals according to what you see. 20% is experience, if you have been to a certain dungeon you know what to expect. 30% is purely reactive healing. Pressing f1 - f8 is not that difficult, but you will loose some time on it. Raids you really want to click on the raidframes to select your targets.

 

Why is mouseover bad? It makes healing so much efficient and (I admit) easier. You can make up for a person that does not do max DPS. But a tank or healer who isn't giving or cannot give it all, that can not be compensated by the rest of the team.

[Tamoka]

Mouseover is essential for efficient healing. Mandatory, imo.

 

I'll play with it as it is, but I won't be as good of a healer until mouseover is added. The half seconds of saved clicks really add up.

Its not essential or mandatory. You need it because you are bad. You are a bad healer and need mouse over healing to help you.

 

People here admit it, without mouse over healing they are bad or worse healers then they could've been. Well DUH, that's because the Macro/AddOn whatever you want to call it, makes stuff easier for you.

 

If this stuff will get in the game it might be one of the first AddOns/Macro's/UI Tweak that make the game too easy. That makes every healer the same.

[Maxvla]

Its not essential or mandatory. You need it because you are bad. You are a bad healer and need mouse over healing to help you.

 

People here admit it, without mouse over healing they are bad or worse healers then they could've been. Well DUH, that's because the Macro/AddOn whatever you want to call it, makes stuff easier for you.

 

If this stuff will get in the game it might be one of the first AddOns/Macro's/UI Tweak that make the game too easy. That makes every healer the same.

 

I am not bad. Anything that reduces input lag makes ANYONE a better player, even you. It's not about being easier. It's about making the response in your brain translate to the servers that you want to heal a certain person take less steps and thus less time to happen.

 

Playing without mouseover healing is like playing with a 500 ping all the time.

[Tamoka]

I am not bad. Anything that reduces input lag makes ANYONE a better player, even you. It's not about being easier. It's about making the response in your brain translate to the servers that you want to heal a certain person take less steps and thus less time to happen.

 

Playing without mouseover healing is like playing with a 500 ping all the time.

Maybe with your slow reaction-time it is. Try to learn & use keybinds.

 

In before the "how can I keybind 16 man operations?QQ". Here you would use your mouse, and trust you, if you are even half decent and read the fight instead of only watching the healthbars (aka, start casting before damage is done), you will be fine.

[Cyberkensho]

People there is external software you can use to bind macro on your mouse keys case you haven't heard.

 

Razer gives software for its input devices exactly for that cause & its not that hard to find similar nor set it up.

 

undoubtedly there will be mods & macro for the game soon, meanwhile you just have to find an alternative.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Cyberkensho