What were the devs thinking??

[Aphradesia]

I would make another wall of text but briefly, I disagree in almost every point you made. If you were playing one char, solo on some dull pve server, no wonder you havent enjoyed anything.

 

So what you are saying is that if we are playing the game the way we want to play it (and was advertised as a way we could legitimately play it - solo) then we are playing it wrong? Thanks for letting us all know.

[TimeBandit_Debel]

This game is still pretty new.. Give the devs some time.. I was lucky to play 2-3 other mmos from their beginning and, they were pretty much linear as well. As the popularity and the community grew, they were getting better and better.

[gunnerjoe]

This game is still pretty new.. Give the devs some time.. I was lucky to play 2-3 other mmos from their beginning and, they were pretty much linear as well. As the popularity and the community grew, they were getting better and better.

 

Sure its new but some of these mistakes they have are not fixable. They cant change the story, or planets, they cant make some magical dragon come in and destroy every single planet to make the story more smooth, this is why some people like me are frustrated because they did not take any risks with this game, it is WoW in space with voice acting. It is almost impossible to level up another character in this game because although the class related story quests are good, the non class related quests are worse than a grind, you still got the 10 cat teeth, kil 20 droid quests and you got no choice but to do them. This is why they should have gone with a single player game and focus more on story not half mmo, half singleplayer.

[Urael]

Fyi, I meant that there is currently a heavy focus on repeating daily quests that do not change at all on a daily basis. I did not mean that they need a heavy focus on that, I meant it's already here, and that it's a problem that I have with the game.

 

They need more daily zones and it would be a decent idea to consider daily quests that are random and change from day to day, I'm not asking for a new daily quest for every day of the year, just that the options are a bit more varied. The three daily zones we have are currently very packed with players on top of rapidly becoming stale.

 

So like Hyjal/Firelands Dailes in WoW, where you don't the the same exact quest from the same quest giver each day and you see the effects of your efforts due to the phasing technology of that game?

[Stradoo]

SWTOR has introduced many unique aspects to the MMO world like, story, the legacy system, companions, and more. Unfortunately, the game has its many flaws that drag the game down to an extreme disappointment FOR ME.

 

Here are the reasons why...

 

1. The story and planets are extremely linear- SWTOR might have commited the worst sin possible in an MMO and that is that they made almost all the planets linear. I found myself with my trooper in tatooine looking for a base where hostages were held. Unfortunately, after running around for 15 minutes into an Imp base, I had to google search a map of tatooine just to find out that there was only one way into the base. This is just one example out of many. The story is also linear, It is go here, go there, kill this, kill that, and there really is no mystery on where you are going at all.

 

2. Even though the devs did say most choices you make matter, the fact is they dont. Played my JK to level 50 and without giving any spoilers, lets just say I saved people, killed people, and helped people, but did it matter? Nah it did not, all I got was a mail message with a commendation or a companion gift but not once did I regret any choice I made and I sure as hell did not play the perfect character.

 

3. Pointless quests and travel time kill the story- This is a key issue to the game, the planets may be linear but, they are sure large. The problem with them being so large is that I may have a story quest that makes me feel like I am in a rush and that I have only 2 minuets to get to my next objective, but when I have to travel 10 minuets on a slow speeder, it takes me away from the story. Along with the long travel time, SWTOR still could not avoid the kill this, pick up that quests. By level 30, I had enough of the boring quests so much that the only quests I listened to, were my story quests. Another issue I found is that these boring quests, are so out of the way of the story quests, it makes them even more pointless. The bonus quests for example, some of them might have stages and they make you kill an excessive amount of enemies, or loot an excessive amount of items. Well you a likely saying, "why dont you just skip those quests, the are bonus after all." Well the issue with that is that if you skip bonus quests, you will find that the quests will quickly out level you (unless you do the pointless planet bonus series.)

 

4. Lack of companion use - The sad part about SWTOR is that I had more attachment to my 8+ companions in KOTOR 2 then the 5 or so I had in SWTOR. I currently have a level 50 JK and I almost have all companions maxed out on affection (with the exception of T7) and only Kira has given me a story mission. This makes me feel more like the companions are "pets" not companions.

 

5. Combat is not heroic one bit- The devs not only promised that the choices would matter, but they also promised that combat would be heroic. Once again, what they said was a stretch, sure you might take on 4 or 5 enemies at once but still, the lightsabers dont lock, the lightsaber barely deflect blaster fire, and it still feels like I am taking a plastic club and just bashing the person to death without them even responding to me hitting them.

 

 

6. Finally, the game uses a lot of stallers- Without giving any spoilers at all, Lets just say in the JK story, right when something important could happen the game makes you do repetitive tasks like destroying weapons or such just to stall for the epic conclusion to the planet or chapter.

 

 

SWTOR in my opinion, should have been a single player game. They could have explored many more options in the story and they could have created a smoother expierence for the player. I was beyond excited when I heard about this game and after watching the dev walkthroughs, I could not wait to get my hands on this game. Unfortunately, my expectations were far to high for this game and it was a complete disappointment. If you watch any of the 6 Star Wars movies, you will less appreciate this game just because it does not fit the bill. You dont feel like Han, Luke and Leia escaping the imps, or the feeling or being in a tight situation just like at Jabba's Palace. You never feel the betrayal or sadness when Anakin betrayed Obi-Wan and killed Padme, and in my situations as a JK, I never felt sorry for anyone no matter what happened. If the devs were more honest with its customers, then this game would not receive the major criticism that it faces. They promised that the choices would matter, and in reality, they dont matter one bit, they promised heroic combat, but the only enemies that regognize that I am hitting them are the weak enemies, not the silver units or elites. Most of the time they do not block lightsaber attacks, the only consistant time they would is if you used ability number 1 which is the ability that generates focus. I think the devs were trying to deceive the customer by showing that ability number 1 gets blocked by units, but as you progress all of your other abilities you gain at a later level dont get deflected by lightsabers, almost all units just stand there and act like I am hitting them with a styrofoam stick.

 

 

Any thoughts? Agree? Disagree? (I'm sure many of you will rip on me about what I said about the prequels, but if you think into the story a little deeper, you feel sad for Anakin, Padme, the Jedi and others and it is truly a tragedy)

 

Fixed.

[gunnerjoe]

Fixed.

 

What do you mean??

[Urael]

What do you mean??

 

He was stating that what you wrote was your opinion and that he didn't agree with it.

[gunnerjoe]

He was stating that what you wrote was your opinion and that he didn't agree with it.

 

Very well that is fine with me, I am glad people disagree with me, I like to hear what others have to say

[bionamaster]

Opinion, not fact, OP.

Companions do have unique backstories, how you didn't think of that as unique I don't know.

 

Your choices do actually matter, they just don't change battles or anything. They add more to your character's personal story.

 

Combat actually is heroic. You can charge into combat, attack foes with advanced attack strategies and powerful weapons. You can win battles, skirmishes, and duels alike, filled with incredible animations and intriguing abilities.

 

I won't presume to try and change your mind, but this is where I stand. The Devs said the game would be everything it is now, and that, my friend, is my opinion.

[Sporin]

In every other MMO it's been everyone being the "one" to save humanity or whatever race of sentient beings that inhabit that planet. Here not everyone is the Emperor's Wrath, and not everyone is Darth Nox. Only the players that play your class and there advance counterpart is. So you're much more unique storywise than any other MMO makes you out to be. Would you rather have it so you end up being a bum on the street? Maybe killed by your master and your character is now perma dead or his/her story just doesn't continue anymore?

 

How can there be 1,000s on the dark council? 1,000s of Emp's wrath? It does NOT make sinse! Are the characters and players meant to be soooo dumb they don't see or know anything else but them and their companions in the whole universe? And before the "But your not meant to know everything about everyone else" kicks in, the answer to that is: I have a sorc and a Assassin AND a warrior and a Mar, so they don't know that each other is the same as them? Lol. The DC chambers must be the size of Cowboys stadium!

[DenariusJay]

How can anyone say with a straight face that the world design in this game is good? Have you traveled around Coriella? Taris? Voss? Its awful. It's damn awful. Even with a speeder it takes FOREVER to get anywhere, and you have to follow the damn roads and take all these long ways just to get to a mission that appears on the mini map to be 5 feet infront of you.

[gunnerjoe]

Opinion, not fact, OP.

Companions do have unique backstories, how you didn't think of that as unique I don't know.

 

Your choices do actually matter, they just don't change battles or anything. They add more to your character's personal story.

 

Combat actually is heroic. You can charge into combat, attack foes with advanced attack strategies and powerful weapons. You can win battles, skirmishes, and duels alike, filled with incredible animations and intriguing abilities.

 

I won't presume to try and change your mind, but this is where I stand. The Devs said the game would be everything it is now, and that, my friend, is my opinion.

 

Thats cool with me, most people who disagree with me feel like I am attacking them, like I said, I am glad you disagree with me, however I never picked up what you said in my JK story,

 

 

The ending is exactly the same, I re-rolled just to see and I only felt attached to Kira, not from overuse or anything like that, as a matter of fact I was close to max affection with all companions (not t-7) and only Kira gave me 2 missions and that was it, the others may have good personalities for the short 1 minuet convo I have with them but other than that, they never gave missions and when I was doing quests they never said anything which pissed me off the most because there is no point of companions to me if they dont make an impact on the story (other than combat) personally I would rather solo the main bosses in the story, that would make it feel a little heroic but the fact that I have to rely on a companion to survive is stupid (unless they have a real point to the story like in ME 1-3)

 

 

As for combat, it sure is better than just seeing other swing at people and although I sometimes saw lightsabers make contact, I also still saw swinging at air, enemies not even looking like I hit them. Do me a favor and attack an elite that uses a gun. Do this with a lightsaber and you will see that the elite you are attacking acts like you are not even attacking him. I respect your opinion, but unfortunately, I never got the expierence you had...

[Vemtaz]

I think the problem with the OP, is that while he described the things he did in a negative way, some people love those things about the game. I play with some people that are former tabletop RPG'ers, and they love to spend hours exploring every nook and cranny of a planet. They are often disappointed when they encounter an exhaustion zone at the edge of an expansive desert or snow field. "What's out there?"

 

They are not in a rush to level.. they level only as a consequence to playing the game, and "Combat" (in a visual sense) is not something they are overly concerned about. Story is obviously important, and there are some weaknesses there, especially with the companions. Some aspects of the companion story are great, other parts are very weak.

 

For me, my biggest complaint about the game, especially the combat, is that I spend all of my time watching my hotbuttons for cooldowns. I glance up at the encounter to assess targetting, then my eyes stay glued to my hotbars. To me this takes away from my enjoyment of the game. It's worse on some characters (agent/smuggler) than on others (trooper/bh), at least for me.

 

I think this could be resolved with some more flexibility in the UI, or perhaps with the ability for the community to contribute add-ons. Note that with add-ons, I'm not a fan of 'macros' that automate combat to the point of having an "I Win" button, and as a healer, I don't want mouse-over healing either. Focus targetting is suitable (although could be improved -i.e have more than one for ops encounters).

[Lucyfer_Infinity]

LOL he was only in charge of combat, I gota laugh how things get so blown out, next he will be the President of Singapore.../facepalm

He was in incharge of ONE part of the game....

 

Since they game is alll about kill kill kill kill kill and pretty much nothing else he might aswell be the lead designer and god of swtor

[Maltuvion]

I would make another wall of text but briefly, I disagree in almost every point you made. If you were playing one char, solo on some dull pve server, no wonder you havent enjoyed anything.

 

How can you disagree with his arguments about story? He's perfectly right; You're playing other people' story constantly, never your own. The world is strictly linear. Every single 50 Jedi Guardian kills "you know who". Every single time, it has zero impact on the gaming world. Every single time you interfere with someone from the other faction questing in the game-world, it doesn't impact the world at all, whether he is just picking up flowers or escorting a pivotal person to that planet's government.

 

The 'story' is inconsequential, irrelevant and completely devoid of intimacy and gravity. You're not ever forging your own story; you're plowing through the same shoddy story as everyone else of your same class.

[Kubernetic]

Completely disagree with almost every point made by the OP.

 

I understand the linearity. I understand why combat is the way it is, so we don't have Jedi one-slice-killing people left and right, and so other classes have a chance. I understand some of the time sinks and credit sinks. I like my companions in all of the stories so far, etc.

 

Unfortunately, it won't be everyone's cup of tea.

 

I fully support the idea of making the post-50 planets non-linear, and providing a lot more room for exploration and diverging from the "beaten path", but I totally understand the 1-50 game. I think they did a superb job.

[Maltuvion]

I sincerely hope you're trolling. If so, well played.

 

Opinion, not fact, OP.

Companions do have unique backstories, how you didn't think of that as unique I don't know.

 

You mean your Malavai Quinn didn't betray your Sith Warrior like mine did, despite 8k affection when I reached that point? You mean your Qyzen Fess didn't get his scorekeeper points reset at the start of the Consular story?

 

Every single player of the same class has same companions. Same dialogues triggering at the same affection levels. You may want to look up "unique".

 

Your choices do actually matter, they just don't change battles or anything. They add more to your character's personal story.

Which is as unpersonal as it gets, since everybody of the same class experience the same things, in the same order. Your character's story isn't personal; each class has a unique story. You get affiliated to it as you play the class, just like everyone else who opts for the same choice. And you all kill the same bad guy a thousand times over at the end of the line.

 

Combat actually is heroic. You can charge into combat, attack foes with advanced attack strategies and powerful weapons. You can win battles, skirmishes, and duels alike, filled with incredible animations and intriguing abilities.

 

Wow. Advanced attack strategies? I mean, how do you even define that as unique to this game, which in itself is still woefully simplistic compared to many other MMO's, WoW included, in terms of depth and theorycrafting? Powerful weapons; you referring to those empty shells that you can re-mod all the way up to level 61 mods? Yeah sure, that "Campaign War Leader's Lightsaber" or "Custom-Built Something" really is powerful, damn. So iconic and powerful, I totally dig that over, say, Sulfuras. And the abilities! So intriguing. Oh by the way, look at the two pictures in this article: http://technorati.com/entertainment/gaming/article/how-and-why-star-wars-the1/page-2/ - Really, Iove how those abilities are so new and innovative.

 

I won't presume to try and change your mind, but this is where I stand. The Devs said the game would be everything it is now, and that, my friend, is my opinion.

 

Except it isn't. The devs spouted an endless amount of postulates that this game haven't lived up to. But that list is far, far too long to rattle off here. At least for me to waste any additional breath on.

[gunnerjoe]

Completely disagree with almost every point made by the OP.

 

I understand the linearity. I understand why combat is the way it is, so we don't have Jedi one-slice-killing people left and right, and so other classes have a chance. I understand some of the time sinks and credit sinks. I like my companions in all of the stories so far, etc.

 

Unfortunately, it won't be everyone's cup of tea.

 

I fully support the idea of making the post-50 planets non-linear, and providing a lot more room for exploration and diverging from the "beaten path", but I totally understand the 1-50 game. I think they did a superb job.

 

The issue with light saber combat is that I am sticking my lighgtsaber right through the persons body and that person has a hole right in his stomach yet he is still firing his gun like nothing happened. There is a simple fix to this, they should make it look like a shield is protecting their body once they get hit. When I mean shield, I don't mean a physical shield but a shield that only shows when the person gets hit and when the person runs out of health, obviously the shield goes down and the light saber cuts through the target...

[Fardarter]

My only comment is it look you till July to realize this? People were screaming about many of the issues you bring up in this thread during beta last year. By having "story" at least the way it was implemented you put the game on rails. I remember making a post about everquest 6 months ago saying how you could make a dozen toons and have a dozen entirely different experiences. "Story" is the limiting factor, it is themepark. The problem is that sandboxes dont sell millions of copies. The SWTOR universe would be perfect for a sandbox game, its sad.

 

If you took SWG sandbox planets and crafting and combined it with SWTOR combat you would have a very good game. If SWTOR devs are smart, moving forward they will open up the game some.

 

Best thing for SWTOR right now is that GW2 is entirely free to play and shouldn't hit subs too hard. That is unless people decide to just drop their subs.

[flyersfan]

SWTOR has introduced many unique aspects to the MMO world like, story, the legacy system, companions, and more. Unfortunately, the game has its many flaws that drag the game down to an extreme disappointment.

 

I wouldn't say that I'm extremely disappointed by the game. On the purest level, I enjoy playing. The combat is fun, I enjoy my character, and I like improving her: getting new armour, tweaking skills, and so on. I like the Warzones and Flashpoints a great deal. To me, the community takes away from them. I hate queuing up for Flashpoints and then having to do the "quick runs" where everyone speeders around all the enemies, skips bosses, and avoids the bonus stuff. However, I'm also just not really an MMO player and have come to terms with that.

 

1. The story and planets are extremely linear

 

This is MMO influence. BioWare has to make things relatively consistent to make sure the constantly living world isn't complete nonsense. You follow the track until you get to the end and everything's the same because there's someone right behind you doing the same thing. You can't really have an option to blow up an Imperial base because there's another leader of Havoc Squad coming to do the same thing and that would just be silly.

 

2. Even though the devs did say most choices you make matter, the fact is they dont.

 

Some of the choices do matter. Finish the Trooper story and you'll see. Some of those choices are pretty intense, emotional, and have some effect on the end of the Trooper story.

 

3. Pointless quests and travel time kill the story

 

More MMO influence. MMOs are almost purely built on time sinks, so BioWare added time sinks. MMOs operate on a subscription pay method, so MMO developers want you to take a long time to do anything. Part of the development process is to find the "sweet spot" between it taking the player a long time to do things and the point where the player is grinding too much. This doesn't exist in Mass Effect because it's a single purchase.

 

4. Lack of companion use

 

I agree.

 

5. Combat is not heroic one bit

 

I find the combat to be quite heroic. I can jump towards a rancor, throw a Sticky Grenade at him, and then Gut him. Pretty awesome.

 

6. Finally, the game uses a lot of stallers

 

MMO

[Daikeru]

How can there be 1,000s on the dark council? 1,000s of Emp's wrath? It does NOT make sinse! Are the characters and players meant to be soooo dumb they don't see or know anything else but them and their companions in the whole universe? And before the "But your not meant to know everything about everyone else" kicks in, the answer to that is: I have a sorc and a Assassin AND a warrior and a Mar, so they don't know that each other is the same as them? Lol. The DC chambers must be the size of Cowboys stadium!

 

Oh right so we're supposed to let just 1 person become part of the Dark Council? Or well ... 8 of you? Have it so only 1 person becomes the emperor's wrath? Allow Jedi and Sith to become the overpowered classes they should be and you destroy PvP. Make it so characters actually DIE and can't be revived and no one gets past level 10. You want Bioware to make a world where every choice you can think of is possible and that's not something that can be done even with years of development. Now add to the fact that there are many worlds, thousands of species. You're asking for an entirely new reality with AI that rivals that of human ingenuity (don't think I'm using that word right .., but that's besides the point). You're asking for the currently impossible, maybe in the future such a feat could be accomplished.

[Darth_Urtani]

SWTOR is a pretty big failure as an MMO, they should have just done a single player RPG.

[gunnerjoe]

I wouldn't say that I'm extremely disappointed by the game. On the purest level, I enjoy playing. The combat is fun, I enjoy my character, and I like improving her: getting new armour, tweaking skills, and so on. I like the Warzones and Flashpoints a great deal. To me, the community takes away from them. I hate queuing up for Flashpoints and then having to do the "quick runs" where everyone speeders around all the enemies, skips bosses, and avoids the bonus stuff. However, I'm also just not really an MMO player and have come to terms with that.

 

 

 

This is MMO influence. BioWare has to make things relatively consistent to make sure the constantly living world isn't complete nonsense. You follow the track until you get to the end and everything's the same because there's someone right behind you doing the same thing. You can't really have an option to blow up an Imperial base because there's another leader of Havoc Squad coming to do the same thing and that would just be silly.

 

 

 

Some of the choices do matter. Finish the Trooper story and you'll see. Some of those choices are pretty intense, emotional, and have some effect on the end of the Trooper story.

 

 

 

More MMO influence. MMOs are almost purely built on time sinks, so BioWare added time sinks. MMOs operate on a subscription pay method, so MMO developers want you to take a long time to do anything. Part of the development process is to find the "sweet spot" between it taking the player a long time to do things and the point where the player is grinding too much. This doesn't exist in Mass Effect because it's a single purchase.

 

 

 

I agree.

 

 

 

I find the combat to be quite heroic. I can jump towards a rancor, throw a Sticky Grenade at him, and then Gut him. Pretty awesome.

 

 

 

MMO

 

Your response to number 3 is that most mmo's do this and it is normal in mmo's. If this game was supposed to be a normal MMO I would completely agree to this but they said this mmo would be completely unique and that they would stick away from the standard boring stuff that are in mmo's

[JetAten]

The OP shouldn't be playing MMOs at all. You could copy and paste that post into the forums of virtually any MMO out there.

[gunnerjoe]

The OP shouldn't be playing MMOs at all. You could copy and paste that post into the forums of virtually any MMO out there.

 

Once again, the devs said this game would be a unique mmo with all the fails of other mmo's out of the picture yet the game is still exactly the same as every other one. If this was going to be a standard MMO, I would have no problems with the issues I said but this game was proclaimed to be a unique, innovative MMO and it was not