Healing is fine, they said. Just gear up, they said.

[Telree]

Yea i am a merc healer.

 

 

 

5k crits happen, but not as often as your saying, not even close with most DPS classes. Look at the scoreboard next time and see how many people actually had a 5k hit, you will be surprised. Apply dot, stun, attack is 3 GCD's not 1. And what were you doing during this, just watching him do this without stunning him or interrupting him or applying any sort of HoT or Shield? Get real. All of your examples have the healer just sitting there taking all of the dmg without doing anything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

there are just as many people in this thread and in-game that say you are wrong. Forums = higher percentage of QQ "nerf everything but me" baddies.

 

1-49 bracket means nothing

 

I know how the gear builds. If you actually did pvp 10-49 you should have had 5 pieces of BM the day you hit 50. And even if you didnt, it should take a max of 2 weeks to get your full BM set even if you just do your daily/weekly and nothing else.

 

 

 

Might have quoted the wrong post but you say multiple times in your posts that you are QQ'ing because you get killed when 2 dps attack you.

 

 

 

1v1 healer vs dps is a stalemate unless one of the two needs to l2p. 1v1 DPS classes have the advantage but healing has always been a team oriented role. You suck without your team, and your team sucks without you. Thats how healing works

 

As a healer, everything you are saying you "should" be able to do, you CAN do...apparently your just not doing it. I know many healers who have no problem delaying 2v1 and surviving for a long time 1v1.

 

 

Khoraji is completely right. Less nerf crying and more learning to counter your opponents attacks and defensive moves. And I play a Sorc healer (pure healer, not a hybrid). Here, Ill give ya a couple of hints....dont stand there and take damage. Bubble, knockback, speedburst, and LoS are all your friends. Embrace them, sleep with them, take em out to dinner. Because You really seem to have no idea how to play a healer.

[anwg]

I can live almost indefinitely against a single DPS, as long as there's a pillar to hump. Edited July 5, 2012 by anwg

[sauerkraut]

Yea well, I've got almost all my BM pieces now for just shy of 1100 expertise. I'm still getting destroyed... it feels no different than when I was in full recruit, in which I had about 950 expertise, so I guess that's not terribly surprising. Still, I figured I'd take their word for it and get the gear and as expected, no difference.

 

I'm still constantly getting hit for 5k crits, sometimes two in a row. One crit for almost 1/3 of my life (yes, I only seem to get 16k hp in BM gear...). The highest crit I can do, thanks to Trauma, is about 3800 and that takes 2.5s of uninterrupted cast time. Why, exactly, healing get a 30% debuff but DPS is free and clear I'll never know. And that's from just a single DPS. Pre-shielded with my HoT up I still die in a single 4s stun from two DPS focusing me, which is pretty common since I'll almost always have a giant icon over my head for 99% of a WZ screaming, "Hey, this guy is a super squishy healer, kill him for free points!" On the move I've got one shield every 20 seconds, a 500 heal from cleanse, and a 1100 heal from my HoT application. This is post 1.3 with the supposed burst nerf. If someone is hitting for 1/3 of my life in a single, instant-cast ability, something is wrong.

 

Really BW, this needs to be looked at. Enough people are posting data and commenting on it that you've gotta start paying attention. That post by your employee saying it was a L2P issue was way off base. When you die that quickly there's nothing you can do... you're just fodder for the masses except when you get lucky and nobody pays attention to you, then you can delay the inevitable slightly.

 

Now, trolls, don't get ahead of yourselves... nobody is asking for invincible healers. What we're asking for is useful healers, and what we have right now is useless healers. I can go DPS and contribute way more than I ever could as a healer. Why? Because I can do more DPS output than I can do healing output, so the numbers not only cancel each other out, but greatly tip to the other side.

 

In the meantime, I'll be playing my Pyrotech alt which noobishly cuts through the masses like a hot knife through butter with minimal skill and effort. Balance in this game is insanely messed up.

 

TL;DR: Damage is too high, healing is too low. This game is a gib-fest and healing has no place in it.

 

Forgive me but i don't believe in your story, this post seems to me like one of those nerf Pyro, buff healer posts with a different approach. However if what you're saying is true just play your Pyro. Why you wanna be a healer so badly?

[timidobserver]

I can live almost indefinitely against a single DPS, as long as there's a pillar to hump.

 

Aint this the truth and it is annoying. For any decent healer, I have to blow cooldowns to actually burn them down before they can lolrunaroundstuffandheal. If anything healers need to be nerfed. They are a support class not a class that should be able to survive while their group ignores the people beating on them. If your tank isn't shielding you and your tank and dps aren't peeling attackers off of you, you should die a horrendous death over and over.

Edited July 5, 2012 by timidobserver

[Telree]

Just say "NO" to the nerf bat!

[Tathais]

5k crits happen, but not as often as your saying, not even close with most DPS classes. Look at the scoreboard next time and see how many people actually had a 5k hit, you will be surprised. Apply dot, stun, attack is 3 GCD's not 1. And what were you doing during this, just watching him do this without stunning him or interrupting him or applying any sort of HoT or Shield? Get real. All of your examples have the healer just sitting there taking all of the dmg without doing anything.

 

The setup is irrelevant, it's what happens during the stun that counts. When I go from 100% to dead. Of course I'm standing there doing nothing. I'm stunned. I keep my shield up as much as I can and also apply my HoT to myself. It's the quick switch to me with a stun that I simply cannot stop. Against a lesser geared DPS I may come out of the stun with 25% health, at which point I have three options

 

1) Bubble for 3k -- Wiped off in the next hit and 15s until the next one.

2) Re-apply HoT for a potential 1500 crit - marginal heal that won't save me

3) Attempt a deliverance cast, maxing at 3800 in a 2.5s cast - easily interrupted and locked out

4) Healing Trance (assuming my pre-HoT's conveyance is sitll up) -- Channeled ability requiring me to stand still, easily interrupted.

 

All of these are so easily countered that the 25% health, at most, I might have remaining is easily polished off. Yes, it's happening this quickly. There's nothing I can do.

 

there are just as many people in this thread and in-game that say you are wrong. Forums = higher percentage of QQ "nerf everything but me" baddies.

 

1-49 bracket means nothing

 

I know how the gear builds. If you actually did pvp 10-49 you should have had 5 pieces of BM the day you hit 50. And even if you didnt, it should take a max of 2 weeks to get your full BM set even if you just do your daily/weekly and nothing else.

 

10-49 PvP gives you the opportunity to learn how your class, skills, and abilities work. I'd say that's pretty meaningful.

 

It takes longer than you think to build a full set... unless you play all day every day. Some of us don't. I did the math a while back, it doesn't take very long. A thread at the top of this forum tells us it'll run you 10750 comms for the full set. I've noticed that I get about 120 - 130 comms (I'll just say 130 for a win) for a win. Losses vary drastically... sometimes I get 20 comms if I get a premade, sometimes I get 100 if it was a close game that went on for a while. Lets go with an average of 80... if you disagree we can use another number, but I'm 100% certain about the 130 for a win. Anyway, since it's expected that, on average, you win 50% of your games (I don't care how awesome you and your premade are, the rest of us in the random queue get what we get). That means you can average 105 comms per game. 10750 games / 105 comms per game = 102.4 games... 103 games for your full set.

 

15 minutes per game seems reasonable (sometimes it's 20, sometimes it's 10, but mostly it's 15) but there's a bit of a break between for loading and waiting for the next queue. I'm gonna go ahead and say 3 games per hour though. If you want to do it with 4, go ahead. 103 games / 3 games per hour = 34.33 hours. Now start looking at how much time people have to play each night. I get about 3 hours and I find I can PvP about two nights a week. That gives me 11.44 nights of pvp, with 5.72 weeks to fully gear. That's a fairly long time... so if it took you a short amount of time, you play this game much more than I do. Which is fine, but that's you. I'm not you.

 

Finally, what you're really missing here is that I've done this. I've been building my set over the last month and am almost done. I have a few more pieces to get and that's it. Regardless of how quickly someone can build it, I'm nearly done. I'm nearly done and I'm still getting destroyed.

 

Might have quoted the wrong post but you say multiple times in your posts that you are QQ'ing because you get killed when 2 dps attack you.

 

1v1 healer vs dps is a stalemate unless one of the two needs to l2p. 1v1 DPS classes have the advantage but healing has always been a team oriented role. You suck without your team, and your team sucks without you. Thats how healing works

 

As a healer, everything you are saying you "should" be able to do, you CAN do...apparently your just not doing it. I know many healers who have no problem delaying 2v1 and surviving for a long time 1v1.

 

It's not that 2 dps beat me, it's that 2 dps destroy me so utterly that I have absolutely no chance to do anything. 1v1 healer vs dps is not a stalemate. Maybe it is at the WH level (though somehow I doubt it), I can't say, but at the BM level where most of us play, it certainly is not. DPS is tearing through me like I'm made of paper.

 

All this stuff you're saying I CAN do, I'm telling you I can't. I'm also telling you that it's not because I don't want to or because I lack the ability to press buttons and react, but because I'm sitting there in a stun unable to do anything and taking so much damage that I can't possibly recover. I'm unable to prevent this. Pillar humping doesn't get you away from melee who slow you, sprint is only available so often. Knockback is countered by leap/pull. And ultimately I have to come into LOS to heal. All stuns are instant-cast, so the second I expose myself I'm done. I have no options.

[Tathais]

Aint this the truth and it is annoying. For any decent healer, I have to blow cooldowns to actually burn them down before they can lolrunaroundstuffandheal. If anything healers need to be nerfed. They are a support class not a class that should be able to survive while their group ignores the people beating on them. If your tank isn't shielding you and your tank and dps aren't peeling attackers off of you, you should die a horrendous death over and over.

 

Ugh, so sick of this typical DPS response. Not only is it so untrue... healers die so easily under focus, but you seem to expect that it's ok for us to be so reliant on everybody else while you get to run around mashing buttons and expect results. Use your interrupts and stuns, you will kill the healer with ease. It gets done to me, I do it to others.

 

Finally, as I said before in another thread... if you're so keen on teamwork, how about we do this? Healers need guard to survive, but DPS needs guard to do damage. A healer's survivability gets cut in half without a tank, so lets cut a damage dealer's dps output by half without a tank.

 

Seems fair to me...

[Khoraji]

The setup is irrelevant, it's what happens during the stun that counts. When I go from 100% to dead. Of course I'm standing there doing nothing. I'm stunned. I keep my shield up as much as I can and also apply my HoT to myself. It's the quick switch to me with a stun that I simply cannot stop. Against a lesser geared DPS I may come out of the stun with 25% health, at which point I have three options

 

1) Bubble for 3k -- Wiped off in the next hit and 15s until the next one.

2) Re-apply HoT for a potential 1500 crit - marginal heal that won't save me

3) Attempt a deliverance cast, maxing at 3800 in a 2.5s cast - easily interrupted and locked out

4) Healing Trance (assuming my pre-HoT's conveyance is sitll up) -- Channeled ability requiring me to stand still, easily interrupted.

 

All of these are so easily countered that the 25% health, at most, I might have remaining is easily polished off. Yes, it's happening this quickly. There's nothing I can do.

 

And why cant you stun him + heal yourself back up when you are un-stunned?

 

There is no single class that can do 15k-19k damage within 4 seconds, sorry but that only happens when you are getting focused, at which point you SHOULD die. Dieing is a part of pvp, especially against a group of people who know how to play together.

 

10-49 PvP gives you the opportunity to learn how your class, skills, and abilities work. I'd say that's pretty meaningful.

 

It gives you that opportunity against sub-par competition (to say the least). AKA it means nothing.

 

It takes longer than you think to build a full set... unless you play all day every day. Some of us don't. I did the math a while back, it doesn't take very long. A thread at the top of this forum tells us it'll run you 10750 comms for the full set. I've noticed that I get about 120 - 130 comms (I'll just say 130 for a win) for a win. Losses vary drastically... sometimes I get 20 comms if I get a premade, sometimes I get 100 if it was a close game that went on for a while. Lets go with an average of 80... if you disagree we can use another number, but I'm 100% certain about the 130 for a win. Anyway, since it's expected that, on average, you win 50% of your games (I don't care how awesome you and your premade are, the rest of us in the random queue get what we get). That means you can average 105 comms per game. 10750 games / 105 comms per game = 102.4 games... 103 games for your full set.

 

15 minutes per game seems reasonable (sometimes it's 20, sometimes it's 10, but mostly it's 15) but there's a bit of a break between for loading and waiting for the next queue. I'm gonna go ahead and say 3 games per hour though. If you want to do it with 4, go ahead. 103 games / 3 games per hour = 34.33 hours. Now start looking at how much time people have to play each night. I get about 3 hours and I find I can PvP about two nights a week. That gives me 11.44 nights of pvp, with 5.72 weeks to fully gear. That's a fairly long time... so if it took you a short amount of time, you play this game much more than I do. Which is fine, but that's you. I'm not you.

 

So your just going to completely ignore daily and weekly rewards to get your point accross huh?

 

10750 comms for full BM if you didnt save anything while pvping 10-49 (your own fault, you should have 5500 comms saved)

 

What did I say, a MAX of 2 weeks right?

Lets say you only do the daily and then logoff every day. It takes 3 wins or 6 losses, lets just say you win 2 and lose 2 every day. That is 420 comms a day

14 days of winning 2 and losing 2 wz's: 5880

14 dailies = 2800 comms

2 weeklies = 1200 comms

That is 9880 while only playing 1 hour a day for 2 weeks. Play for an extra hour during the weekends and you have your full BM set in 2 weeks. And that is without saving comms in 10-49 like you should have.

 

Finally, what you're really missing here is that I've done this. I've been building my set over the last month and am almost done. I have a few more pieces to get and that's it. Regardless of how quickly someone can build it, I'm nearly done. I'm nearly done and I'm still getting destroyed.

 

Read above, why has it taken you so long to get BM gear?

 

 

 

All this stuff you're saying I CAN do, I'm telling you I can't. I'm also telling you that it's not because I don't want to or because I lack the ability to press buttons and react, but because I'm sitting there in a stun unable to do anything and taking so much damage that I can't possibly recover. I'm unable to prevent this. Pillar humping doesn't get you away from melee who slow you, sprint is only available so often. Knockback is countered by leap/pull. And ultimately I have to come into LOS to heal. All stuns are instant-cast, so the second I expose myself I'm done. I have no options.

 

Do you never get white-barred or ever use your stun breaker? Where is your team? Where is your guard? Do you ever use YOUR stun?

 

I am telling you 1v1 healer vs dps is a stalemate for me at 1338 expertise and 20k HP.

 

As your title suggests, gear up and you will be fine.

[Khoraji]

Ugh, so sick of this typical DPS response. Not only is it so untrue... healers die so easily under focus, but you seem to expect that it's ok for us to be so reliant on everybody else while you get to run around mashing buttons and expect results. Use your interrupts and stuns, you will kill the healer with ease. It gets done to me, I do it to others.

 

Finally, as I said before in another thread... if you're so keen on teamwork, how about we do this? Healers need guard to survive, but DPS needs guard to do damage. A healer's survivability gets cut in half without a tank, so lets cut a damage dealer's dps output by half without a tank.

 

Seems fair to me...

 

If you dont like supporting your team, why are you a healer?

 

Healing is a team oriented role, your team sucks without you and you suck without your team. It doesnt work that way for DPS. A good healer with a good tank is extremely hard to take down. And the reason healers need tanks more than DPS is because healers get focused hard. Do you know why we get focused? Because we are too powerful NOT to be killed first.

[jblazen]

All that I know is that since 1.3, as a full WH sorc healer, it's almost impossible to do anything anymore. I used to be able to keep myself up and heal here and there but I can't do anything now. Too much dmg flying around since 1.3. I feel almost useless because I get focused and locked down by even 1 and it's gg.

 

And I'm not scrub sorc healer, I regularly top over 700k in CW and VS. Well at least I used to....

[anwg]

Yea well, I've got almost all my BM pieces now for just shy of 1100 expertise. I'm still getting destroyed... it feels no different than when I was in full recruit, in which I had about 950 expertise, so I guess that's not terribly surprising. Still, I figured I'd take their word for it and get the gear and as expected, no difference.

 

Do you think others are also not working on their gear? I'd expect most people to have 1.2k expertise by now, if not 1.3k.

 

I'm still constantly getting hit for 5k crits, sometimes two in a row. One crit for almost 1/3 of my life (yes, I only seem to get 16k hp in BM gear...). The highest crit I can do, thanks to Trauma, is about 3800 and that takes 2.5s of uninterrupted cast time. Why, exactly, healing get a 30% debuff but DPS is free and clear I'll never know. And that's from just a single DPS. Pre-shielded with my HoT up I still die in a single 4s stun from two DPS focusing me, which is pretty common since I'll almost always have a giant icon over my head for 99% of a WZ screaming, "Hey, this guy is a super squishy healer, kill him for free points!" On the move I've got one shield every 20 seconds, a 500 heal from cleanse, and a 1100 heal from my HoT application. This is post 1.3 with the supposed burst nerf. If someone is hitting for 1/3 of my life in a single, instant-cast ability, something is wrong.

 

Define constantly? The only time I can crit for over 5k is when a marauder uses bloodthirst.

 

Most healing sorcerers these days go up the lightening tree to get electric binding and backlash, try that.

[Khoraji]

All that I know is that since 1.3, as a full WH sorc healer, it's almost impossible to do anything anymore. I used to be able to keep myself up and heal here and there but I can't do anything now. Too much dmg flying around since 1.3. I feel almost useless because I get focused and locked down by even 1 and it's gg.

 

And I'm not scrub sorc healer, I regularly top over 700k in CW and VS. Well at least I used to....

 

Read patch notes? Because what you are saying makes no sense. What changed for you class to cause this?

[Tathais]

And why cant you stun him + heal yourself back up when you are un-stunned?

 

There is no single class that can do 15k-19k damage within 4 seconds, sorry but that only happens when you are getting focused, at which point you SHOULD die. Dieing is a part of pvp, especially against a group of people who know how to play together.

 

Dying is fine, dying so quickly is the problem. Unbuffed my hp is about 16k with 3 pieces shy of full BM. This is the gear that I get. Most sages I see have around 17.5k buffed in a WZ... I'm thinking I'm missing endurance from augments. I will get this gear, but I'll be right back here to tell you how quickly I die. What will you tell me then? As for no single class doing that much damage in 4 seconds... I dunno what to tell you, they are. Others in this thread have voiced their support, having seen the same thing.

 

You're basically calling me a liar. I suppose there's not much else I can do except say, "yes, this is happening to me." Maybe I can take some fraps clips of how quickly I die and post them, but I'll be honest with you... it seems an awful lot of effort to go through for someone who will likely ignore it.

 

So your just going to completely ignore daily and weekly rewards to get your point accross huh?

 

10750 comms for full BM if you didnt save anything while pvping 10-49 (your own fault, you should have 5500 comms saved)

 

What did I say, a MAX of 2 weeks right?

Lets say you only do the daily and then logoff every day. It takes 3 wins or 6 losses, lets just say you win 2 and lose 2 every day. That is 420 comms a day

14 days of winning 2 and losing 2 wz's: 5880

14 dailies = 2800 comms

2 weeklies = 1200 comms

That is 9880 while only playing 1 hour a day for 2 weeks. Play for an extra hour during the weekends and you have your full BM set in 2 weeks. And that is without saving comms in 10-49 like you should have.

 

I left the dailies out of my calculations because not everybody plays every day. I don't... I told you above, I play twice a week, sometimes more sometimes less. It usually takes me two weeks to finish a weekly and the daily I sometimes don't complete if we're losing really badly. You need to start understanding that not everybody plays constantly. I still don't get why this is an issue... see below.

 

Read above, why has it taken you so long to get BM gear?

 

You seem to have ignored the very statement you quoted. I ask you again, who gives a crap how long it takes? Does it matter? No, what matters is that I'm at the later stages of it. I'm basically done my set. Does it matter how long I spent on it? If you play 24/7 for 3 days and get your set, how is that different than if I spend a month getting mine. At the end of the day, we both have our sets.

 

I don't get why we're even talking about this, it has nothing to do with anything. If I somehow led us down this line of conversation, I apologize. It's led us nowhere and has been a completely pointless endeavour. Perhaps we can agree to move on?

 

Do you never get white-barred or ever use your stun breaker? Where is your team? Where is your guard? Do you ever use YOUR stun?

 

I am telling you 1v1 healer vs dps is a stalemate for me at 1338 expertise and 20k HP.

 

As your title suggests, gear up and you will be fine.

 

No, I die before my resolve bar ever gets filled. I use my stun breaker when it's up. Against 2 DPS it doesn't matter 'cause the other guy uses it (seems it takes 2-3 stuns for it to fill... I don't fully understand the resolve bar to be honest with you. I've read all the stuff but sometimes it just doesn't seem to fill correctly). Anyway, I know you say 2 DPS should win against a healer, and I'm not disagreeing with you on the broad concept of that... it's the specifics. One DPS is auto-win, two DPS is absolute destruction on me. Resolve doesn't even get a chance to be a part of it.

 

As for where my team is, I have no control over this fact... sometimes I have a guard, sometimes I don't. The bottom line is, why should I have to be reliant on it if DPS aren't?

 

If you have that much expertise and HP, you're probably well past BM. WH gear isn't available to me, period. You're talking about the top level of competitive gear... the average, mid-level player can't obtain that. The best I can expect is 1150ish expertise with about 17.5k hp. At least for a sage... I can't remember what class you said you were, Merc? Maybe your gear is better, I have no idea. I can only tell you what I get.

 

Either way, I can't really gear up anymore, and for PuG WZ I shouldn't have to. If that's the norm... BM gets torn up in seconds by WH+, then it's just more proof that this game's balance is completely messed up.

Edited July 5, 2012 by Tathais

[Tathais]

All that I know is that since 1.3, as a full WH sorc healer, it's almost impossible to do anything anymore. I used to be able to keep myself up and heal here and there but I can't do anything now. Too much dmg flying around since 1.3. I feel almost useless because I get focused and locked down by even 1 and it's gg.

 

And I'm not scrub sorc healer, I regularly top over 700k in CW and VS. Well at least I used to....

 

Thank you for posting... it helps that you're full WH. I've got these guys discounting me 'cause I'm not quite done my BM set and here you are, a full WH player, experiencing similar problems.

 

It just feels like DPS in this game want healers to be useless... which makes sense, I suppose if I wasn't concerned with game balance too I'd want healers to be invincible gods, which is what they seem to think I'm asking for. All I want is to have a chance to be effective. Right now I don't.

[Khoraji]

Thank you for posting... it helps that you're full WH. I've got these guys discounting me 'cause I'm not quite done my BM set and here you are, a full WH player, experiencing similar problems.

 

It just feels like DPS in this game want healers to be useless... which makes sense, I suppose if I wasn't concerned with game balance too I'd want healers to be invincible gods, which is what they seem to think I'm asking for. All I want is to have a chance to be effective. Right now I don't.

 

Your thread title suggests that you were fully geared.

 

Then I get hear and your saying you dont even have full BM (basically free)

 

I'll respond to your other post when I get home, and yes, you are a liar if you are saying DPSers can do 16k dmg in 4 seconds.

[Tathais]

Your thread title suggests that you were fully geared.

 

Then I get hear and your saying you dont even have full BM (basically free)

 

I'll respond to your other post when I get home, and yes, you are a liar if you are saying DPSers can do 16k dmg in 4 seconds.

 

If you read my title that I was fully geared and missed the very first sentence where I explained how geared I was ("almost all of my BM pieces"), that would be your own fault, wouldn't you say? I have almost all the gear that's going to be available to me, and that is the basis of my thread. I made some posts a while back when I was in recruit gear expressing dismay about how quickly I died. The general response was "you gotta get your BM gear". Fair enough, I thought... I may not like it but I should at least give it a try. I did, and I'm basically finished, and I'm not seeing any difference. None, at all. If I'm seeing no difference after all this gearing, I'm not going to see anything else once I get the 3 pieces I'm missing.

 

I think we're getting too hung up on the 4 seconds. The problem is that I'm dying in a 4s stun, from 100 to 0. If you think about it, it's not terribly hard to set this up.

 

You need to do the following:

 

[t < 0] * Setup DoTs

[t < 0] * Do large damaging attack

[t = 0] * Do stun before person can react

[t = 1.5] * Do large damaging attack, dots tick

[t = 3.0 ] * Do large damaging attack, dots tick

[t = 4.0] * Stun wears off

[t = 4.5] * Do large damaging attack (and/or interrupt, then do large damaging attack)

 

Multi-crit is happening... you keep telling me it's not and I keep shaking my head and shrugging at you because I know it does. In that sequence, you've got three large damaging attacks in a short time frame, then one more in the hopes that you finish them off.

 

Unless my stun breaker is up (2 min CD vs. the 1 min CD of the stun) I can do nothing in this period of time. DPS classes are hitting me for 5k crits and with your average 30% chance to crit, it's not unreasonable to expect two of those in there. If those two are the large damaging attacks, that's 10k damage. Then you've got two more large damaging attacks which, even if they don't crit, are probably going to add up to another 5k to 6k damage. Then you've got any DoTs ticking for extra damage.

 

I'm not saying this happens every single time, but it does happen a lot. This is just from a single person. Taking crits out of the equation, two DPS can accomplish the exact same thing, killing a player before they could possibly react. It's also not terribly hard to set this up.

Edited July 5, 2012 by Tathais

[Meskel]

Do not take backlash/kinetic collapse, especially if you bubble others! What this does is turns melee opponents into unstoppable death machines by filling their resolve bar. Save your ranged stun for use on ranged Dps when you are unable to Los. Save your knockback for when you have more than one opponent in melee range. Do not waste gcds when moving. Shield teammates, slow the melee chasing you or the opponents healer, interrupt, throw a rock/shock at low health targets.

 

Remove benevolence from your bar. It's too little, too expensive, and too late.

 

Cast deliverance to keep your team topped off. That way someone will not drop because you got interrupted.

 

Come to the realization that you can not "save" a target with heals alone. CC, shield and hope they pop a medpack so you can land a meaningful heal.

 

Know when to Dps. 2v1 with enemy reinforcements inc is the best example here. Burn that target and CC/kite to keep the odds even.

 

That's about all the help I can provide. This is coming from a bm geared sage heal hybrid that averages 75k dmg, 300k heals, and 200k damage taken in war zones and does not run with a reliable tank.

[jblazen]

Read patch notes? Because what you are saying makes no sense. What changed for you class to cause this?

 

Perhaps I should be more clear. I have read and completely understand the patch notes of 1.3. Nothing significant changes for sorcs in 1.3.

 

IMO, allowing augments for all slots has increased dmg significantly. They removed relics and adrenals trying to increase TTK and then went ahead and allowed augments in every slot which essentially gives everyone a lot more health and more of their primary offensive stat.

 

So what I'm finding is that while burst dps every 3 minutes with stacking adrenals, relics, etc seems to have gone down. Overall sustained dps has shot up a lot thus everyone is dropping a lot faster. Now I will say that my stats have increased as well because I've augmented everything also but it's not keeping pace with the scaling dps.

 

Everyone is dropping a lot faster in WZ's that I'm in and healing is not scaling at the same rate because of the 30% loss in WZ's to healing. So basically they've just reduced TTK instead of increased it and fouled everything up.

 

Now I'm shelving the sorc because it's pretty much unplayable. I can still top 500k but if I get stared at, I fall over. Also I can't keep anyone up by themselves like I used to be able to do. If I was healing a 1v1 I could easily keep them up but now the dps outpaces my hps and it's a losing battle.

 

So on to my alt I guess.... RWZ's are even worse, everyone knows to focus the sorc healer first so without another healers backing me and with guard, I get smashed before I can even react. No fun.

[Never_Hesitate]

Hmm threads like this make bioware patching the wrong things...

noobs complaining about healers to be too weak, yea.. right.

 

People not playing at lvl 50 in a competitive team shouldnt be allowed to state their opinions on balancing issues because they obviously have no idea what they are talking about..

 

On the first page of this thread someone wrote "L2P /thread" .. yea pretty much nails it.

 

Or you could just come down from the high horse you are on and discuss.

Why do you think healers are alright?

Based on what do you get your opinion?

Do you even play a healer at the current time?

[Khoraji]

Dying is fine, dying so quickly is the problem. Unbuffed my hp is about 16k with 3 pieces shy of full BM. This is the gear that I get. Most sages I see have around 17.5k buffed in a WZ... I'm thinking I'm missing endurance from augments. I will get this gear, but I'll be right back here to tell you how quickly I die. What will you tell me then? As for no single class doing that much damage in 4 seconds... I dunno what to tell you, they are. Others in this thread have voiced their support, having seen the same thing.

 

You're basically calling me a liar. I suppose there's not much else I can do except say, "yes, this is happening to me." Maybe I can take some fraps clips of how quickly I die and post them, but I'll be honest with you... it seems an awful lot of effort to go through for someone who will likely ignore it.

 

And still others in this thread are telling you that what your suggesting does not happen. Can you even tell us what class your talking about? No, because you dont know, your just throwing numbers out of your *** and crying about getting focused.

 

I left the dailies out of my calculations because not everybody plays every day. I don't... I told you above, I play twice a week, sometimes more sometimes less. It usually takes me two weeks to finish a weekly and the daily I sometimes don't complete if we're losing really badly. You need to start understanding that not everybody plays constantly. I still don't get why this is an issue... see below.

 

Whats your excuse for not saving comms pre-50 then? You seem to have one for everything else. Playing 1 hour a day is casual. Playing twice a week is inactive.

 

You seem to have ignored the very statement you quoted. I ask you again, who gives a crap how long it takes? Does it matter? No, what matters is that I'm at the later stages of it. I'm basically done my set. Does it matter how long I spent on it? If you play 24/7 for 3 days and get your set, how is that different than if I spend a month getting mine. At the end of the day, we both have our sets.

 

I don't get why we're even talking about this, it has nothing to do with anything. If I somehow led us down this line of conversation, I apologize. It's led us nowhere and has been a completely pointless endeavour. Perhaps we can agree to move on?

It matters because while you take a month just to get the base BM set, everyone else has out-geared you and makes your class seem UP when in reality, you are just undergeared and dont play enough PvP to know your class and what is happening around you.

I was using your lack of gear to show you that you dont play enough to know what your talking about.

 

But lets forget about that for now as you said.

 

No, I die before my resolve bar ever gets filled. I use my stun breaker when it's up. Against 2 DPS it doesn't matter 'cause the other guy uses it (seems it takes 2-3 stuns for it to fill... I don't fully understand the resolve bar to be honest with you. I've read all the stuff but sometimes it just doesn't seem to fill correctly). Anyway, I know you say 2 DPS should win against a healer, and I'm not disagreeing with you on the broad concept of that... it's the specifics. One DPS is auto-win, two DPS is absolute destruction on me. Resolve doesn't even get a chance to be a part of it.

 

2 stuns will always fill the resolve bar. The other CC options have different effects. But 2 stuns = full resolve.

 

Like I said before. 2dps vs 1 ANYTHING you will get demolished. If you were a PT Pyro(most OP DPS class) you would die just as fast against 2 DPS. Being a healer makes no difference here

 

1v1 you should be doing alot better. I can only speak for myself as a merc healer so... its kind of hard to compare but you said earlier that this isnt a class specific thread, your saying ALL healers are dealing with these issues, which isnt true. 1v1 I can stand there and heal without a problem. DPS ops give me issues and so do Mara/sent sometimes, anything else is EZ heal mode. And ops are even better at that than mercs so....

 

As for where my team is, I have no control over this fact... sometimes I have a guard, sometimes I don't. The bottom line is, why should I have to be reliant on it if DPS aren't?

Join a guild maybe? if you can find a pvp guild that will accept someone who plays as little as you do.

 

Find some friends? Ask the tank to guard you? I told you this many times. Healers are TEAM oriented, they are a support role. Your team needs you, and you need your team.

 

If you have that much expertise and HP, you're probably well past BM. WH gear isn't available to me, period. You're talking about the top level of competitive gear... the average, mid-level player can't obtain that. The best I can expect is 1150ish expertise with about 17.5k hp. At least for a sage... I can't remember what class you said you were, Merc? Maybe your gear is better, I have no idea. I can only tell you what I get.

 

Either way, I can't really gear up anymore, and for PuG WZ I shouldn't have to. If that's the norm... BM gets torn up in seconds by WH+, then it's just more proof that this game's balance is completely messed up.

 

I was full BM before 1.2

 

War hero gear is available to everyone, is your game bugged or something? The average, mid-level player is well past BM unless they just got the game or just hit 50.

 

If your game is bugged and you cant get WH gear, then you need to start itemizing your BM gear so you dont have all that useless alacrity/accuracy. Start to min-max your character in BM gear. It will help even more than the gear itself.

 

My guild has plenty of people with alts that are in only BM and we do just fine. You simply do not play enough to know what you are doing.

[Khoraji]

Perhaps I should be more clear. I have read and completely understand the patch notes of 1.3. Nothing significant changes for sorcs in 1.3.

 

IMO, allowing augments for all slots has increased dmg significantly. They removed relics and adrenals trying to increase TTK and then went ahead and allowed augments in every slot which essentially gives everyone a lot more health and more of their primary offensive stat.

 

So what I'm finding is that while burst dps every 3 minutes with stacking adrenals, relics, etc seems to have gone down. Overall sustained dps has shot up a lot thus everyone is dropping a lot faster. Now I will say that my stats have increased as well because I've augmented everything also but it's not keeping pace with the scaling dps.

 

Everyone is dropping a lot faster in WZ's that I'm in and healing is not scaling at the same rate because of the 30% loss in WZ's to healing. So basically they've just reduced TTK instead of increased it and fouled everything up.

 

Now I'm shelving the sorc because it's pretty much unplayable. I can still top 500k but if I get stared at, I fall over. Also I can't keep anyone up by themselves like I used to be able to do. If I was healing a 1v1 I could easily keep them up but now the dps outpaces my hps and it's a losing battle.

 

So on to my alt I guess.... RWZ's are even worse, everyone knows to focus the sorc healer first so without another healers backing me and with guard, I get smashed before I can even react. No fun.

 

Augments increased everyone's health and your healing. What are you trying to say?

 

Go DPS if healing is too hard?

[Khoraji]

Why do you think healers are alright?

Based on what do you get your opinion?

 

Maybe the fact that top healing is almost always above the top DMG in any WZ.

[BurnsTwoThree]

Remove benevolence from your bar. It's too little, too expensive, and too late.

 

I wouldn't recommend that. Multiple interrupts, healing trance on CD/Bubble Debuff = need for Benevolence.

 

Completely correct about everything else except for completely removing it. The situation above happens a lot from the WZs I was doing with some friends today.

[Never_Hesitate]

Maybe the fact that top healing is almost always above the top DMG in any WZ.

 

That doesn't mean anything with a full heal specced sorc which is left alone to cast his aoe heals and big heals I can get numbers way over a dps, but it didn't really help my team survive with the aoe heals.

 

Augments increased everyone's health and your healing. What are you trying to say?

Go DPS if healing is too hard?

 

But with the way expertise buffs your dmg output and heal we really should just go and dps.

with 1046 expertise I get DMG Boost: 20.52% and Healing Boost: 11.30%

 

And now tell me with an additional healing reduction in wz from trauma (30%). does bw want all of us to go and play a dps?

Edited July 5, 2012 by Never_Hesitate

[Khoraji]

If you read my title that I was fully geared and missed the very first sentence where I explained how geared I was ("almost all of my BM pieces"), that would be your own fault, wouldn't you say? I have almost all the gear that's going to be available to me, and that is the basis of my thread. I made some posts a while back when I was in recruit gear expressing dismay about how quickly I died. The general response was "you gotta get your BM gear". Fair enough, I thought... I may not like it but I should at least give it a try. I did, and I'm basically finished, and I'm not seeing any difference. None, at all. If I'm seeing no difference after all this gearing, I'm not going to see anything else once I get the 3 pieces I'm missing.

 

I think we're getting too hung up on the 4 seconds. The problem is that I'm dying in a 4s stun, from 100 to 0. If you think about it, it's not terribly hard to set this up.

 

You need to do the following:

 

[t < 0] * Setup DoTs

[t < 0] * Do large damaging attack

[t = 0] * Do stun before person can react

[t = 1.5] * Do large damaging attack, dots tick

[t = 3.0 ] * Do large damaging attack, dots tick

[t = 4.0] * Stun wears off

[t = 4.5] * Do large damaging attack (and/or interrupt, then do large damaging attack)

 

Multi-crit is happening... you keep telling me it's not and I keep shaking my head and shrugging at you because I know it does. In that sequence, you've got three large damaging attacks in a short time frame, then one more in the hopes that you finish them off.

 

Unless my stun breaker is up (2 min CD vs. the 1 min CD of the stun) I can do nothing in this period of time. DPS classes are hitting me for 5k crits and with your average 30% chance to crit, it's not unreasonable to expect two of those in there. If those two are the large damaging attacks, that's 10k damage. Then you've got two more large damaging attacks which, even if they don't crit, are probably going to add up to another 5k to 6k damage. Then you've got any DoTs ticking for extra damage.

 

I'm not saying this happens every single time, but it does happen a lot. This is just from a single person. Taking crits out of the equation, two DPS can accomplish the exact same thing, killing a player before they could possibly react. It's also not terribly hard to set this up.

 

So your saying your thread title was mis-leading (aka a lie?)? "Almost all BM pieces" is like saying "I just hit 50", your thread title should have been "Im a new healer that just hit 50 and I am getting killed to fast, BUFF PLS" and I would have ignored it like all the others.

 

As for your example where you do nothing to protect yourself and your team is nowhere to be found...

 

You should still be alive and your opponent should be out of resources. The difference between us is that you think those "large damaging attacks" do 5k, when in reality they are doing 2500-4k, Maybe once a game goes over 5k.

 

In your next few warzones, screenshot any DPS you see that had a 5k+ hit. I bet its harder than it sounds.

Edited July 5, 2012 by Khoraji