Healing is fine, they said. Just gear up, they said.

[BurnsTwoThree]

Straight when hitting lvl 50 I had 5 BM pieces, filled up with recruit for the rest, jumped straight into WZs.

 

I suggest you stop trying to gauge a class's usefulness based on your experiences with 5 pieces of BM in regular WZs.

 

Seriously.

Edited July 5, 2012 by BurnsTwoThree

[Never_Hesitate]

I am sorry, but I do not know in how many more/different ways we can explain this to you and others potting threads like this one. HEALING IN PVP IS FINE! (Seer Sage)

 

Straight when hitting lvl 50 I had 5 BM pieces, filled up with recruit for the rest, jumped straight into WZs and was instantly topping the sheets (not that total healing is what is important, but it gives some ind of idea on how much healers are underperforming when it comes to player skills), only ones have I been out healed and that was by a Scrundrel. I can with ease hold my own 1v1 Healing myself while someone is beating on me, I just have to think of how I do it, hint: Deliverence is to the answer. This is not a problem even without Guard, as most my matches are with PUGs I rarely get a guard and I am not expecting one. It is even possible to hold your own for a while against 2v1 but you will eventually burn through your force. And 3+v1 is supposed to kill you, it is not a Mae flaw!

 

In the end it comes down to your personal skill, not the class it's self. If you have 2.5 sec cast on Deliverence you obviously do not understand itemization either. You have to think a out where you position yourself on the battlefield. If you run into the front lines standing in the thick of battle healing, you will get targeted. If you on the other hand stay at a little shorter than max range from the ppl you intend to heal, the DPS will have to travel through your frontline to get to you, and only stupid teammates won't see that happening and move to assist.

 

I think the only way to get these topics to stop is to be blunt about it: You struggle with healing because you do not understand your class and can't play it enough. That's the only solution to hy half these posts are whining and the other alf claims healin to be fine. I suggest more practice or a Shane in class.

 

Of course.

My main problem is that the enemies know me and mark me as soon as i get anywhere near the fight.

A friend of mine who playes way better than myself, can even kite more than 3 people (except Pyro PT/mirror but that's another story).

I myself don't think that kiting should be all a sorc is good for.

I don't think sorcs should be returned to the pre-patch 1.2 status, but taking our burst heal (2.5s cast time instead of 1.5s), our resource management (no free force anymore, but that isn't a big deal) and still not giving us a def cd was just unreasonable.

Fixing the duble tap bug, would have brought us down enough and if not they could have done further changes in the following patches.

Why do devs not work step by step, why do they just overnerf?

Edited July 5, 2012 by Never_Hesitate

[TKofSweden]

I suggest you stop trying to gauge a class's usefulness based on your experiences with 5 pieces of BM in regular WZs.

 

Seriously.

Funny that you choose to focus on that which was meant to give a back story. Never did I stat that it is my current situation.

[fungihoujo]

I believe when the game's director says "L2P" and thinks our main issue is force management:

 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/05/15/hyperspace-beacon-swtors-james-ohlen-shares-the-formula-behind/

 

we may be fighting a losing battle...

 

Just read through that for the first time...

 

Yup, SWTOR is dead as a pvp game when someone who is that much of an idiot is making decisions.

 

Resource management- while a problem, and while it does suck that we have to deal considerable damage to ourselves to regen force- is probably one of the least of my worries.

 

Against any half decent players or team you will never survive long enough to go out of force- it's good though that he doesn't even have a clue what the main problems are.

 

Really, it's fantastic. Why pay attention to how the game plays? Oh right- metrics. Just run it through a couple spreadsheets and VOILA! PvP balance, isn't that right Ohlen? Because apparently we're playing these games on calculators not keyboards.

[BurnsTwoThree]

Funny that you choose to focus on that which was meant to give a back story. Never did I stat that it is my current situation.

 

Funny you did not go anywhere past that point.

 

As well as the fact that anyone who says that Sorcerers are in a good place right now is outright lying. Yes, there's some issues outside of the Sorcerer class that make it harder for us but there's no way you can think that they are okay for high-rated RWZs right now.

[Never_Hesitate]

Funny you did not go anywhere past that point.

 

As well as the fact that anyone who says that Sorcerers are in a good place right now is outright lying. Yes, there's some issues outside of the Sorcerer class that make it harder for us but there's no way you can think that they are okay for high-rated RWZs right now.

 

Of course we're alright. all is as it should be.

-our full heal specc is useless in pvp

-we get killed with ease

-we wear light armor and don't have any def cd's

 

Alltogether we are a glass cannon without a cannon like effect.

[Annex]

I am sorry, but I do not know in how many more/different ways we can explain this to you and others potting threads like this one. HEALING IN PVP IS FINE! (Seer Sage)

 

Straight when hitting lvl 50 I had 5 BM pieces, filled up with recruit for the rest, jumped straight into WZs and was instantly topping the sheets (not that total healing is what is important, but it gives some kind of idea on how much healers are underperforming when it comes to player skills), only ones have I been out healed and that was by a Scrundrel. I can with ease hold my own 1v1 Healing myself while someone is beating on me, I just have to think of how I do it, hint: Deliverence is to the answer. This is not a problem even without Guard, as most my matches are with PUGs I rarely get a guard and I am not expecting one. It is even possible to hold your own for a while against 2v1 but you will eventually burn through your force. And 3+v1 is supposed to kill you, it is not a game flaw!

 

In the end it comes down to your personal skill, not the class it's self. If you have 2.5 sec cast on Deliverence you obviously do not understand itemization either. You have to think about where you position yourself on the battlefield. If you run into the front lines standing in the thick of battle healing, you will get targeted. If you on the other hand stay at a little shorter than max range from the ppl you intend to heal, the DPS will have to travel through your frontline to get to you, and only stupid teammates won't see that happening and move to assist.

 

I think the only way to get these topics to stop is to be blunt about it: You struggle with healing because you do not understand your class and can't play it well enough. That's the only solution to why half these posts are whining and the other alf claims healin to be fine. I suggest more practice or a change in class.

 

Not going to flame you but ok, if thats your stance, please explain exactly what you are doing that 90% of us here are not.

 

As I see it these are the broad tactics available to us (obviously not exhaustive or in detail, just themes):

 

 

• Hide
  Of course as a healer you need to do this. Pillar hug, Speed away when someone looks funny at you, LOS, etc. Do you honestly think noone else does this? The issue is when you are a healer against good teams, you will be insta marked after your 1st heal. When you have a reputation on a server as a GOOD healer you will be insta marked before your 1st heal. Good luck hiding for long with a mark on your head and when DPS know you are around.
  
• Run Away/Kite
  Run away, fine. You run away what are you doing for the team? Youre certainly not healing anyone, youre not contributing to objectives. In fact all youre doing is distracting 1 DPS. You cant heal effectively as you need to stand still to heal and most DPS have multiple gap closers anyway. Run away is simply deferring death and not playing for objectives.
  
• Stand Still
  The "noob" option according to L2Pers and yet the only one where our heals can be cast. Obviously taken to extremes it is noob. Standing by a turret in an aoe obviously is stupid but seriously, we HAVE to stand still to cast all 3 of our main heals?!!?!?!?! Please enlighten me how you cast them on the run.
  

 

I don't want to flame you, honestly, as Im sure you think youre correct . However, please enlighten me.

 

I expect the fact is that you either arent well known on your server or are playing pretty poor players (ie not organised teams). If not I would genuinely love to know what you do to be able to reliably keep yourself and others up for more than 10seconds.

Edited July 5, 2012 by Annex

[iNeXxS]

 

I expect the fact is that you either arent well known on your server or are playing pretty poor players (ie not organised teams). If not I would genuinely love to know what you do to be able to reliably keep yourself and others up for more than 10seconds.

Find a good tank to guard you and queue with him/her.

 

A skilled healer can usually survive through up to 3 equally geared DPS if they have a guard.

 

If you don't have fully auged WH, you shouldn't be QQing about dying to geared players.

[Annex]

Find a good tank to guard you and queue with him/her.

 

A skilled healer can usually survive through up to 3 equally geared DPS if they have a guard.

 

If you don't have fully auged WH, you shouldn't be QQing about dying to geared players.

 

I have fully aug WH.

 

However when did that start to be the bare miniumum required for a class to be viable?

[TKofSweden]

I expect the fact is that you either arent well known on your server or are playing pretty poor players (ie not organised teams). If not I would genuinely love to know what you do to be able to reliably keep yourself and others up for more than 10seconds.

There is a important distinction that has to be done first and foremost. Is the class broken, or is the other team just more organized and know how to deal with you better than your own team supports you? (general terms)

 

I claim that the class is working fine. Ofc, I also get frustrated when I get railroaded by multiple DPS shredding me down in seconds, when obviously being marked. However I believe that I allowed that to happen either by bad positioning or the fact that my team just didn't assist me. I am not expecting tools to be able to deal with situations like that, it is just clever use of tactics from the opposing team, where they took full advantage of the situation.

 

You might also be right, I haven't been lvl 50 for to long and play o a well populated server, so I might not be well known as a (good) healer. It is quite obvious though in the WZs were I do get marked, and I will die if not helped by my team. So far I have not come up against anyone 1v1 that I can't go +/-0 with (heal as much as the DPS).

 

My main strategy is to stay as far away from the fighting as possible while still being able to heal the players I intend to heal. This might loose me Defence points, but well worth staying away from danger. It makes it harder for the DPs to go for me, and the DPS should generally notice if a member of the opposing team runs straight through them and react accordingly. I move from AOE, but if I do get someone on me, I do one of two things. 1) Stand still to make sure to get as many heals of as possible while using stunn, pushback and force lift. You call the standing still to be the noob approach, I do not see it that way, it is the only way for me to stay alive, because I am severely gimped while running and healing. 2) Heal through the initial burst and make my way to the DPS so they can easily Notice that I am in trouble, change targent and assist.

[islander]

I believe when the game's director says "L2P" and thinks our main issue is force management:

 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/05/15/hyperspace-beacon-swtors-james-ohlen-shares-the-formula-behind/

 

we may be fighting a losing battle...

 

"In PvP specifically, I think it would be a fine argument to make that we've increased the minimum skill required to play a Sorcerer or Sage healer, but currently we're not buying that they are ineffective or have less potential than other healers.

What I am concerned about and have my eyes on, specifically, is that this skill requirement is too high for comfort. "

 

I think this sums up the QQ. Higher skill cap.

[Never_Hesitate]

I have fully aug WH.

 

However when did that start to be the bare miniumum required for a class to be viable?

 

I think at the same time as i a pocket tank became a requirement for healing to be viable.

[Annex]

There is a important distinction that has to be done first and foremost. Is the class broken, or is the other team just more organized and know how to deal with you better than your own team supports you? (general terms)

 

Specifically how do you heal on the move?

 

After all, everyone says "you should kite DPS stop facetanking".

Edited July 5, 2012 by Annex

[islander]

I don't think DPS Classes need to obtain such extreme levels of Gear to be effective.

 

Nope, but this is also why they are a dime a dozen.

 

If anyone signed up to be a PvP healer because they thought it'd be easy...

Edited July 5, 2012 by islander

[Never_Hesitate]

Specifically how do you heal on the move?

 

After all, everyone says "you should kite DPS".

 

I think an operative can heal on the move quite well, but the other two heal classes can't.

When they kite they can't heal, not even themselfes.

[Annex]

"In PvP specifically, I think it would be a fine argument to make that we've increased the minimum skill required to play a Sorcerer or Sage healer, but currently we're not buying that they are ineffective or have less potential than other healers.

What I am concerned about and have my eyes on, specifically, is that this skill requirement is too high for comfort. "

 

I think this sums up the QQ. Higher skill cap.

 

If I thought he had understood the actual issue Id agree.

 

However he just rambles on about resource utilisation which is completely NOT the point, it doesnt take skills to retain force, I dont get how people run out ever... The problem is do we kite or do we stand?

 

Currently you cant really do either.

[islander]

Specifically how do you heal on the move?

 

After all, everyone says "you should kite DPS".

 

Here, I'll completely agree. The ONE thing that irritates me about the class is the lack of healing mobility. You are essentially a healing turret.

 

In a one one one open world situation, you can (with reasonable effectiveness, but it takes a lot of skill) dot/kite someone to death. Especially if you are a madness spec.

In a warzone, you simply can't. Your best bet is to stun/cc and run towards more people on your team, and hope someone, anyone, doesn't have tunnel vision and comes to your aid.

[fungihoujo]

Find a good tank to guard you and queue with him/her.

 

A skilled healer can usually survive through up to 3 equally geared DPS if they have a guard.

 

If you don't have fully auged WH, you shouldn't be QQing about dying to geared players.

 

Interesting- so 300 hours worth of pvp at 50 to get the gear is the bare minimum for pvp now. I could completely clear Skyrim, Fallout 3 and both Demon/Dark Souls with plats in that time, and likely get a great deal more enjoyment and get to do a lot more variety of things.

 

Also, you are comparing a skilled healer and tank to 3 extremely pathetic DPS, or perhaps 3 DPS sorcs. 3 well geared, good mara/PTs/snipers on a guarded healer is good night, because the healer will spend the entire time rooted, CCed and interrupted. Not only will that healer die, but it'll be a quick death, and if you with 2 other DPS cannot kill a tank/heal combo, you either roll with terrible DPS or are one yourself.

[islander]

If I thought he had understood the actual issue Id agree.

 

However he just rambles on about resource utilisation which is completely NOT the point, it doesnt take skills to retain force, I dont get how people run out ever... The problem is do we kite or do we stand?

 

Currently you cant really do either.

 

I just try not to stay in the same place for more then 15-20 seconds when healing. Unless I have a legit pvp tank which is uber rare.

I 'try' to stay somewhat out of line of sight, but this is obviously difficult because you require the same line of sight to heal your own team.

 

(qualifier: I am not a ranked healer - I'm a transplant from a small server so I'm still way undergeared at around 1150 exp)

Edited July 5, 2012 by islander

[Annex]

Here, I'll completely agree. The ONE thing that irritates me about the class is the lack of healing mobility. You are essentially a healing turret.

 

In a one one one open world situation, you can (with reasonable effectiveness, but it takes a lot of skill) dot/kite someone to death. Especially if you are a madness spec.

In a warzone, you simply can't. Your best bet is to stun/cc and run towards more people on your team, and hope someone, anyone, doesn't have tunnel vision and comes to your aid.

 

Then we are arguing the same point! The class is simply poorly thought out.

 

- If we are a turret healer, why no def cds/survivability?

- If we are a kiter, why are all heals channel/cast?

 

Just doesnt make sense from a mechanic POV.

 

I have (personally) NO issues with resource utlisation and/or healing output but the class is just mechanically wrong.

Edited July 5, 2012 by Annex

[Never_Hesitate]

Then we are arguing the same point! The class is simply poorly thought out.

 

- If we are a turret healer, why no def cds/survivability?

- If we are a kiter, why are all heals channel/cast?

 

Just doesnt make sense from a mechanic POV.

 

I have (personally) NO issues with resource utlisation and/or healing output but the class is just mechanically wrong.

 

Exactly my opinion.

[cschwartzy]

Find a good tank to guard you and queue with him/her.

 

A skilled healer can usually survive through up to 3 equally geared DPS if they have a guard.

 

If you don't have fully auged WH, you shouldn't be QQing about dying to geared players.

 

I will say healers seem to be built now on having peelers and cross healing. Running against competent teams that do this can make healers immortal at times. I will disagree about the War Hero statement. I don't think you need fully Augmented War Hero to compete. I will also say there are a TON of people that don't have it either. I've faced many War Hero players that are absolutely horrible and the only reason they have said gear is = Time.

[Khoraji]

Yea well, I've got almost all my BM pieces now for just shy of 1100 expertise. I'm still getting destroyed... it feels no different than when I was in full recruit, in which I had about 950 expertise, so I guess that's not terribly surprising. Still, I figured I'd take their word for it and get the gear and as expected, no difference.

 

I'm still constantly getting hit for 5k crits, sometimes two in a row. One crit for almost 1/3 of my life (yes, I only seem to get 16k hp in BM gear...). The highest crit I can do, thanks to Trauma, is about 3800 and that takes 2.5s of uninterrupted cast time. Why, exactly, healing get a 30% debuff but DPS is free and clear I'll never know. And that's from just a single DPS. Pre-shielded with my HoT up I still die in a single 4s stun from two DPS focusing me, which is pretty common since I'll almost always have a giant icon over my head for 99% of a WZ screaming, "Hey, this guy is a super squishy healer, kill him for free points!" On the move I've got one shield every 20 seconds, a 500 heal from cleanse, and a 1100 heal from my HoT application. This is post 1.3 with the supposed burst nerf. If someone is hitting for 1/3 of my life in a single, instant-cast ability, something is wrong.

 

Really BW, this needs to be looked at. Enough people are posting data and commenting on it that you've gotta start paying attention. That post by your employee saying it was a L2P issue was way off base. When you die that quickly there's nothing you can do... you're just fodder for the masses except when you get lucky and nobody pays attention to you, then you can delay the inevitable slightly.

 

Now, trolls, don't get ahead of yourselves... nobody is asking for invincible healers. What we're asking for is useful healers, and what we have right now is useless healers. I can go DPS and contribute way more than I ever could as a healer. Why? Because I can do more DPS output than I can do healing output, so the numbers not only cancel each other out, but greatly tip to the other side.

 

In the meantime, I'll be playing my Pyrotech alt which noobishly cuts through the masses like a hot knife through butter with minimal skill and effort. Balance in this game is insanely messed up.

 

TL;DR: Damage is too high, healing is too low. This game is a gib-fest and healing has no place in it.

 

"Almost all my BM pieces" = Still not geared, Full BM takes what, a week or two to get?

 

Is your gear augmented? With 16k hp I doubt it. = Again you are NOT considered anywhere close to "geared"

 

"Geared" to me means 1300+ expertise, 18k+ hp.

 

Trauma is there to balance PvE healing with PvP healing. Boss damage is significantly higher than anything you are going to see in pvp, hence the debuff.

 

You are also over-stating how many times 5k crits happen. I realize you are in light armor compared to my heavy, but i hardly EVER see 5k crits anymore, and def not 2 in a row.

[Never_Hesitate]

"Almost all my BM pieces" = Still not geared, Full BM takes what, a week or two to get?

 

Is your gear augmented? With 16k hp I doubt it. = Again you are NOT considered anywhere close to "geared"

 

"Geared" to me means 1300+ expertise, 18k+ hp.

 

Trauma is there to balance PvE healing with PvP healing. Boss damage is significantly higher than anything you are going to see in pvp, hence the debuff.

 

You are also over-stating how many times 5k crits happen. I realize you are in light armor compared to my heavy, but i hardly EVER see 5k crits anymore, and def not 2 in a row.

 

So again comes the argument:

"Just die your way through pvp untill you are wh geared untill then don't complain."

[kitsinni]

One single healer trying to heal a group without being gaurded is going to be close to pointless. Multiple healers with a good tank is the MOST IMPORTANT single part of any WZ. Good healing wins more matches than anything else. All things being equal gear wise the team with the better healing usually ends up winning.