Healing is fine, they said. Just gear up, they said.

[Gidoru]

There are a couple of issues with this.

 

1. Any class or spec that relies on casting abilities in this game is basically terrible. The simple fact is that there are far too many ways to interupt and if not interupt then cc to make casting reliable. This is why Mercs are generally thought to be an inferior DPS, this is why almost no one plays Lightning Sorc, even fewer effectively and this is why operative healers and classes like PTs are the best instant abilities.

 

I dont even know how they would begin to address this other than say adding in a new type of 'resolve bar' but for interupts such that you could only be interupted once every x seconds and in addition to that improving the resolve system such you cannot be stunnned full duration 2 times in a row before being immune.

 

2. If healers are buffed then guard needs to be nerfed. Guarded healers are already nearly impossible to kill. So the question is, do you nerf tanks in favor of healers? Because this is about the only way a healer buff wont be overpowered. It possible they could design it in a such a way to make it balanced.

 

Perhaps by rather than making it a permanent active effect, make it some type of short duration ability on a cooldown that can be strategically used to combat short term burst. But this may also make tanks less desirable in warzones either way.

[NoTomorrow]

Roll a ranged dps class. Try to kill a guarded healer, even with other help. Realize that healers are fine.

[vimm]

Healing is great!

[Sookster]

Roll DPS, try to kill a Guarded ...

 

Stop right there, any class guarded will be hard to kill especially when taunted by the tank. Guard is a weird mechanic, taunt should work the way it does in many other games- forces the player you taunt to target you.

 

My operative healer with 624 bonus healing and 19K health still dies fast, but when I'm guarded it's pathetic.

Edited July 5, 2012 by Sookster

[Ahhmyface]

No. Healers are the most powerful class on the battlefield. Gear up to end game gear,L2P, and join an 8man with a competent tank.

 

/thread

 

This.

[Ahhmyface]

Stop right there, any class guarded will be hard to kill especially when taunted by the tank. Guard is a weird mechanic, taunt should work the way it does in many other games- forces the player you taunt to target you.

 

No, not stop right there. Guard and taunts are THE way you protect your squishies. If they are dying, you're doing it wrong.

 

The solution is not to make squishies un-squishy.

[Galossj]

I dunno. I can run around fine on my Merc without a constant guard. It's all about positioning.

 

Me too... i thought noboby had problems with healing.

 

It's always hard to resist without a tank guard if 3-4 dps are focusing on us, but that's another matter.

 

And for the one who said about the 2.3 cast time, yes you are right, but you should equip something to improve your alacrity in order to have around 1.7 cast time. I play with a 1.38 cast time but only because i've make some mess with the equip (i forgot the surge rating...).

[vimm]

Stop right there, any class guarded will be hard to kill especially when taunted by the tank. Guard is a weird mechanic, taunt should work the way it does in many other games- forces the player you taunt to target you.

 

My operative healer with 624 bonus healing and 19K health still dies fast, but when I'm guarded it's pathetic.

 

Forcing targets is a terrible idea, lol.

[timidobserver]

Yea well, I've got almost all my BM pieces now for just shy of 1100 expertise. I'm still getting destroyed... it feels no different than when I was in full recruit, in which I had about 950 expertise, so I guess that's not terribly surprising. Still, I figured I'd take their word for it and get the gear and as expected, no difference.

 

I'm still constantly getting hit for 5k crits, sometimes two in a row. One crit for almost 1/3 of my life (yes, I only seem to get 16k hp in BM gear...). The highest crit I can do, thanks to Trauma, is about 3800 and that takes 2.5s of uninterrupted cast time. Why, exactly, healing get a 30% debuff but DPS is free and clear I'll never know. And that's from just a single DPS. Pre-shielded with my HoT up I still die in a single 4s stun from two DPS focusing me, which is pretty common since I'll almost always have a giant icon over my head for 99% of a WZ screaming, "Hey, this guy is a super squishy healer, kill him for free points!" On the move I've got one shield every 20 seconds, a 500 heal from cleanse, and a 1100 heal from my HoT application. This is post 1.3 with the supposed burst nerf. If someone is hitting for 1/3 of my life in a single, instant-cast ability, something is wrong.

 

Really BW, this needs to be looked at. Enough people are posting data and commenting on it that you've gotta start paying attention. That post by your employee saying it was a L2P issue was way off base. When you die that quickly there's nothing you can do... you're just fodder for the masses except when you get lucky and nobody pays attention to you, then you can delay the inevitable slightly.

 

Now, trolls, don't get ahead of yourselves... nobody is asking for invincible healers. What we're asking for is useful healers, and what we have right now is useless healers. I can go DPS and contribute way more than I ever could as a healer. Why? Because I can do more DPS output than I can do healing output, so the numbers not only cancel each other out, but greatly tip to the other side.

 

In the meantime, I'll be playing my Pyrotech alt which noobishly cuts through the masses like a hot knife through butter with minimal skill and effort. Balance in this game is insanely messed up.

 

TL;DR: Damage is too high, healing is too low. This game is a gib-fest and healing has no place in it.

 

In that case you are failing utterly. With the nerf to burst, a guarded healer is capable of single handedly turning the tide in a match now.

 

Though I know the idea that you are doing something wrong is unacceptable. Healing itself is broken because you can't get it, right?

[revgd_freeze]

I need a healer if my Mara or else i just get wasted, so no healer in group, i'm pretty un useful unless i hit and run.

[Motoeric]

It pains me to see how many people simply won't accept the fact that they are bad. Op I'm sorry but your just not playing your healer to its potential.

[Rompdomp]

Yeah, sure. Just look at this Civil War.

 

The only time I ever entered a Warzone on my Immortal Juggernaut (full Recruit gear...). Take note: I was guarding the Operative healer throughout the game; the Sorcerer who did 975k was mostly unguarded...

 

It is an extreme example, I know, but it shows what good healers can do in a Warzone. It was before 1.3 but that did not change healing drastically, unlike 1.2.

 

If you have a guarded op that is getting focused and a sorc that is getting relatively left alone you are going to win 90 percent of the time. Sorcs have amazing synergy healing with ops if they aren't getting focused. Sorcs got the output and opp healers do well under fire (especially if they are guarded). However good teams know that you kill the sorc before you kill the opp. Therefore your example isn't that great (especially in relation to rated WZ's). Cross healing like that is only amazingly effective if the other team doesn't focus properly. The fact of the matter is that it isn't about good healers alone, its about good healers, tanks, and proper focus. Right or wrong IDK, but obviously your not going to have this too often in random WZ's and i think this is why allot of people get pissed.

[Chaoskyx]

Combat Medic here. I've finally got full BM, and I find that healing isn't as bad as off as I thought it was. (At least for Commandos/Mercs.) I'm finally on equal footing with many of the players I encounter, and I've found that I do have the tools to stand up to 1 DPS. Surviving against Marauders requires constant use of all my CDs and very calculated play, but hey, the match-up is finally the stalemate it should be! (Then again, they could just be bad, I dunno.)

 

Of course, I can't really heal others while this is happening, but that's good and balanced. Guard removes that restriction, anyway.

If more than one enemy gets on me, obviously I'm going to die, but once again, a friendly tank can alleviate the pressure quite effectively. (Perhaps too effectively, even.)

 

Once again, I'm only speaking as a Combat Medic, but I just wanted to express my glee at not being facerolled by DPS anymore.

Edited July 5, 2012 by Chaoskyx

[Meparch]

Healer is a support class. You aren't 1v1 anyone and you are going to be dead if you are alone. You will be dead if you get marked. The only thing that makes it viable is having a team that knows how to protect a healer. The support goes both ways and when a team supports itself the healer WINS the WZ.

 

In a fail pug, the healer might as well just quit. See the thread on quitting WZ.

[Rompdomp]

Combat Medic here. I've finally got full BM, and I find that healing isn't as bad as off as I thought it was. (At least for Commandos/Mercs.) I'm finally on equal footing with many of the players I encounter, and I've found that I do have the tools to stand up to 1 DPS. Surviving against Marauders requires constant use of all my CDs and very calculated play, but hey, the match-up is finally the stalemate it should be!

 

Of course, I can't really heal others while this is happening, but that's good and balanced. Guard removes that restriction, anyway.

If more than one enemy gets on me, obviously I'm going to die, but once again, a friendly tank can alleviate the pressure quite effectively. (Perhaps too effectively, even.)

 

Once again, I'm only speaking as a Combat Medic, but I just wanted to express my glee at not being facerolled by DPS anymore.

 

I agree, a good tank can make a healers life allot easier. To top it off if your team is focusing properly it gets even easier. However, I think the main reason healers get pissed is because they que for randoms don't usually get these benefits, get face rolled, and get frustrated. Once again I am not judging this and I think this game is decently balanced in regards to competitive rated WZ's. However, in random reg WZ ques you usually don't have the luxury of a dedicated tank and smart focus firing dps and this hurts healers the most. As a result healers in these situations feel worthless and get pissed ( hence we see allot of these threads).

[Rompdomp]

Healer is a support class. You aren't 1v1 anyone and you are going to be dead if you are alone. You will be dead if you get marked. The only thing that makes it viable is having a team that knows how to protect a healer. The support goes both ways and when a team supports itself the healer WINS the WZ.

 

In a fail pug, the healer might as well just quit. See the thread on quitting WZ.

 

You hit the nail on the head

[NeverRose]

Almost full BM? Please.

 

 

Get full WH, augment everything and then come back.

 

 

Oh and get a tank who will guard you and taunt your enemies.

[Myekie]

Almost full BM? Please.

 

 

Get full WH, augment everything and then come back.

 

 

Oh and get a tank who will guard you and taunt your enemies.

 

I don't think DPS Classes need to obtain such extreme levels of Gear to be effective.

[Never_Hesitate]

I believe when the game's director says "L2P" and thinks our main issue is force management:

 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/05/15/hyperspace-beacon-swtors-james-ohlen-shares-the-formula-behind/

 

we may be fighting a losing battle...

 

He talks about the resource management of sorcs/sages, but atm my management does look like this:

Use all your force (if you can achive that you're already lucky) > die

As a healer i will be dead before i used all my force.

 

Oh and get a tank who will guard you and taunt your enemies.

 

Why should we have rely on another class?

Shouldn't a healer be able to do a fine job without a tank guarding him?

 

How would a dps react if you tell him, that he has to search a tank otherwise he will be useless?

Edited July 5, 2012 by Never_Hesitate

[BurnsTwoThree]

Why should we have rely on another class?

Shouldn't a healer be able to do a fine job without a tank guarding him?

 

How would a dps react if you tell him, that he has to search a tank otherwise he will be useless?

 

We should rely on other classes to peel and CC DPS off of us. But we should never have to be around a tank for a damage reduction. It's just a shoddy mechanic that allowed healers to not really have much personal utility. It seems like it is a PvE aggro drop for healers that gets used for PvP when tanks should just out aggro healers regardless.

 

Give healers personal utility, fix the broken classes and PvP will do just fine.

[Annex]

He talks about the resource management of sorcs/sages, but atm my management does look like this:

Use all your force (if you can achive that you're already lucky) > die

As a healer i will be dead before i used all my force.

 

Has resource management EVER been an issue for PvP? Not for me in anything since live.

 

The issue isnt even healing output which is also fine for the most part if you are left alone to cast (ie never).

 

The issue is the loldiculous fact that all our heals are channeled/2.5+s cast so we have no ability to kite but also no def cds to stand still.

 

A fact that the "L2P" people never seem to have a counter for.

Edited July 5, 2012 by Annex

[Never_Hesitate]

Has resource management EVER been an issue for PvP? Not for me in anything since live.

 

The issue isnt even healing output which is also fine for the most part if you are left alone to cast (ie never).

 

The issue is the loldiculous fact that all our heals are channeled/2.5+s cast so we have no ability to kite but also no def cds to stand still.

 

A fact that the "L2P" people never seem to have a counter for.

 

Exactly my opinion.

[BurnsTwoThree]

Has resource management EVER been an issue for PvP? Not for me in anything since live.

 

The issue isnt even healing output which is also fine for the most part if you are left alone to cast (ie never).

 

Resource management isn't hard, but it severely hurts our survivability if there's one competent player also hitting you. The original mechanic was much better because it actually made sense.

[TKofSweden]

I am sorry, but I do not know in how many more/different ways we can explain this to you and others potting threads like this one. HEALING IN PVP IS FINE! (Seer Sage)

 

Straight when hitting lvl 50 I had 5 BM pieces, filled up with recruit for the rest, jumped straight into WZs and was instantly topping the sheets (not that total healing is what is important, but it gives some kind of idea on how much healers are underperforming when it comes to player skills), only ones have I been out healed and that was by a Scrundrel. I can with ease hold my own 1v1 Healing myself while someone is beating on me, I just have to think of how I do it, hint: Deliverence is to the answer. This is not a problem even without Guard, as most my matches are with PUGs I rarely get a guard and I am not expecting one. It is even possible to hold your own for a while against 2v1 but you will eventually burn through your force. And 3+v1 is supposed to kill you, it is not a game flaw!

 

In the end it comes down to your personal skill, not the class it's self. If you have 2.5 sec cast on Deliverence you obviously do not understand itemization either. You have to think about where you position yourself on the battlefield. If you run into the front lines standing in the thick of battle healing, you will get targeted. If you on the other hand stay at a little shorter than max range from the ppl you intend to heal, the DPS will have to travel through your frontline to get to you, and only stupid teammates won't see that happening and move to assist.

 

I think the only way to get these topics to stop is to be blunt about it: You struggle with healing because you do not understand your class and can't play it well enough. That's the only solution to why half these posts are whining and the other alf claims healin to be fine. I suggest more practice or a change in class.

Edited July 5, 2012 by TKofSweden

[Shlamorel]

Yea well, I've got almost all my BM pieces now for just shy of 1100 expertise. I'm still getting destroyed... it feels no different than when I was in full recruit, in which I had about 950 expertise, so I guess that's not terribly surprising. Still, I figured I'd take their word for it and get the gear and as expected, no difference.

 

I'm still constantly getting hit for 5k crits, sometimes two in a row. One crit for almost 1/3 of my life (yes, I only seem to get 16k hp in BM gear...). The highest crit I can do, thanks to Trauma, is about 3800 and that takes 2.5s of uninterrupted cast time. Why, exactly, healing get a 30% debuff but DPS is free and clear I'll never know. And that's from just a single DPS. Pre-shielded with my HoT up I still die in a single 4s stun from two DPS focusing me, which is pretty common since I'll almost always have a giant icon over my head for 99% of a WZ screaming, "Hey, this guy is a super squishy healer, kill him for free points!" On the move I've got one shield every 20 seconds, a 500 heal from cleanse, and a 1100 heal from my HoT application. This is post 1.3 with the supposed burst nerf. If someone is hitting for 1/3 of my life in a single, instant-cast ability, something is wrong.

 

Really BW, this needs to be looked at. Enough people are posting data and commenting on it that you've gotta start paying attention. That post by your employee saying it was a L2P issue was way off base. When you die that quickly there's nothing you can do... you're just fodder for the masses except when you get lucky and nobody pays attention to you, then you can delay the inevitable slightly.

 

Now, trolls, don't get ahead of yourselves... nobody is asking for invincible healers. What we're asking for is useful healers, and what we have right now is useless healers. I can go DPS and contribute way more than I ever could as a healer. Why? Because I can do more DPS output than I can do healing output, so the numbers not only cancel each other out, but greatly tip to the other side.

 

In the meantime, I'll be playing my Pyrotech alt which noobishly cuts through the masses like a hot knife through butter with minimal skill and effort. Balance in this game is insanely messed up.

 

TL;DR: Damage is too high, healing is too low. This game is a gib-fest and healing has no place in it.

 

As a sage, I feel your pain. I have a few things I've had to do to adapt, and while it doesn't solve everything, it does make things bearable.

 

Right now, sages can do a lot of raw healing output if we have nobody on us, but in ranked warzones this is usually not the case. We are often focused due to our squishiness. Unfortunately, if you want to stay the support class of the sage healer, you'll likely have to try out some different hybrid builds depending on what kind of teams are murdering you (i.e., is it more ranged or melee that are ****** you?)

 

Do I like that my role in upper tier PvP is that of a kiter/tank? No - I'd prefer to be on the sidelines healing my comrades and getting guarded by my tanks who peel dps off of me. However, I enjoy my sage and I have never been a flavor of the month reroller, so I have just been experimenting with Seer/TK and Seer/Balance specs to see which ones leaves me with the most survivability.

 

Sages are still very useful- our usefulness has just evolved from a heavy output class to a class that can try and distract people for a while, while (ideally) in the meantime your teammates are able to cap the node/focus down their healers. It shouldn't have to be this way, I'm just trying to roll with the punches until sages get altered in a future patch.

 

In sum, I am not thrilled with the healing playstyle I have to resort to in rated warzones, BUT, I have found that we *can* contribute by being flexible and giving other talent builds a try. You may not be actually healing your group as much but your service to your team will be noticed if the team you're playing with has any sort of situational awareness.