Healing is fine, they said. Just gear up, they said.

[Buttercuppy]

The other day, I solo'd a lvl 47 sorc with my green geared lvl 11 vanguard. Both on full health. I won with random button pressing. That's how bad it is.

 

I have a sharpshooter, who can kill any sorc with 4 random buttons.

I have a guardian, who can do it with 4 to 5 buttons (although not random).

 

I have a fully warhero geared (fully augmented) rank 85 sage that is pulp in 2 seconds against any coordinated team. No defensive cooldowns, no "oh ****" button. Ever since 1.2, sage pvp is messed up.

 

And it's so illogical, too. As others have pointed out, (1) the expertise stat boosts DPS far more than healing, (2) Healing has a 30 % trauma debuff, but DPS has no 30 percent DPS debuff, (3) DPS can apply a "heal debuff", but healers cannot aply a "DPS debuff" (4) DPS have defensive cooldowns, healers don't (5) An equally geared sage/sorc cannot outheal an equally geared DPS; (6) healers are somehow supposed to come with a pocket tank, while no other class is dependent on another class in the same manner (as someone pointed out, if sages are supposed to be dependent on tanks, than DPS are supposed to be dependent on healers, right? So why don't we remove all defensive cooldowns from DPS... ) (7) No logic in the sage/sorc healtree (you should always be on the move, but your heals require you to stand still? *** kind of logic is that for a pvp healer?)

 

Sages/Sorcs have been utterly shafted in PvP since 1.2. The 1.2 PTS thread had over 5k posts. Other than the "This thread is too long, we're making a new one", not a single post was from Bioware. I have no illusion this thread will be any different.

[iphobia]

Im constantly seeing 700k heals in wz's, you get 2 that are cross healing each other, its nearly impossible to kill one of them or anyone else. Guard also adds another element that needs balancing. I think the heals are too much.

 

Heres a pic of me doing 270k damage and only getting one kill.

http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee477/jacobus67gt/ONEKILL.jpg

 

Wow, 0 objective points, you must've zerged very hard to get you impossibly high damage of 270k.

It's been a while since I've seen someone with 0 objective points. It's close to impossible due to the new medal system (since 1.2).

 

Absolutely terrible.

It's exactly people like you who destroy the balance in MMO's.

 

There are screenshots around where people have done more than 1mio damage.

There are also screenshots around where people have done more than 1mio heal.

Screenshots are no proof for anything.

[JattaGin]

Man, so many shameful answers to a starting post which has valid points in it. I agree with most of his points.

 

Everyone who comes with a L2P commentary is in my opinion very likely a bad player himself. It is the worst and most useless answer one can give. It is an answer you give if you do not have any proper argument. It would be better to not reply at all, because L2P answers help no one and contribute nothing to the discussion. You L2P-tellers are terrible, not the thread starter.

 

Only thing worse than L2P is: "L2P: get a tank to support you." You gotta be kidding me. This is a contradiction in itself. If learning how to play is finding another player who cares for you, then I do not even find words to comment on this.

 

Honestly, I am convinced that many of the L2P-posters here are playing normal WZs again, because they lost too much in ranked WZs and they have more fun crushing Pugs with their WH gear that they farmed on Ilum back in the days. This is just my personal opinion. I have no proof for it. No need to comment. You may agree or disagree.

[Egalatae]

I am a fully augmented war hero sage healer. I consider myself a good healer in pvp and pve.

l2p is a joke coming from someone who isnt playing the class. Basically its ignored by me.

The problem with pvp sage/sorc healing is the lack of the ability to survive.

I am almost always playing with our main tank who is a full war hero shadow.

If I get focused by 2 pyro techs even when guarding, not only do I die from it but they kill my tank off as well.

I am adapted to dropping the guard and allowing me to just die. Problem is this can cause my tank and myself to get off cycle and so I can get stuck without a guard and be dead within seconds.

Yes we have to play as a team, but we need to be able to survive long enough to get guard on us again.

This mobility thing being posted is utter crap. If I force run to escape not only am I out of range of guard but 8 times out of 10 I am pulled back and stunned. Plus the opposite happens. I am staying close to my tank and a powertech pulls me out of range of guard, stunning me and then destroying me without a single thing I can do to prevent it.

 

Basically what this means is NO matter how good a healer is and how good your tank is....dps will find a way take us down without any ability to counter it. We need some sort of stun immunity/cd to allow us to self heal or get in range of tank again.

 

I'm approaching rank 60 with full augmented bm and 1 augmented wh weapon. I stopped pvping on my sage a week after 1.3 hit. Part of me was hoping I could try and plough through the demoralising death fest and endless loses to get full WH, but your post leaves me questioning whytf I should bother?

Your answer is the perfect response to all the seriously f***ing annoying 'get a guard/pockettank' "solutions" people suggest when half brain pvpers know how to counter guard anyway.

 

If true tanks require healers to not be useless in pop, and healers need guarding tanks to act as body guards, then surely each of us is only half a class? :-/

 

Having tons of fun smashing the living c**p out of everything but powertechs on a lvl 25 gunslinger.

 

Choosing to play my sage sometimes feels like I'm deciding if I want to give myself a headache or not :-/

 

Thanx bioware for turning my love of the game/class into almost pure hate and dread.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Egalatae

[jbluzb]

I play a jedi sage toon, and I can crit heals at 5k every other heal. I have BM gear and war hero relics and implants. The problem is that when nobody bothers to help the healer, we just die within 4 seconds. I just don't bother moving and wait for the health bar to go down. (no point in cc or stun, or even lift )

 

I had better survivability pre 1.2. As of the case, when I play with a team who know how peel off attackers from healers, we usually win a game.

 

In PVE, jedi sage healers are amazing toons.

(I can heal, interrupt and dps - all the same time)

[Ellvaan]

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Edited July 9, 2012 by Ellvaan

[Sookster]

Pockettank is the best way to stay alive, unfortunately most of the time I have a tank guarding me, he doesn't pay enough attention and I have to scream into vent when I'm being pounded on and it's usually too late by then. When I do have a tank that pays attention, I can get the job done much better.

 

I need to fire that tank.... out of a cannon and into the sun.

[BurnsTwoThree]

Wow, 0 objective points, you must've zerged very hard to get you impossibly high damage of 270k.

It's been a while since I've seen someone with 0 objective points. It's close to impossible due to the new medal system (since 1.2).

 

Absolutely terrible.

It's exactly people like you who destroy the balance in MMO's.

 

There are screenshots around where people have done more than 1mio damage.

There are also screenshots around where people have done more than 1mio heal.

Screenshots are no proof for anything.

 

Hahahaha his team had no heals and he's wondering why his team just rolled over and died.

[Kitzinger]

Skill being equal, a team with healers on it will beat a team without healers on it almost every single time. When my Tank and a certain healer team up the difference in wins to losses changes dramatically. 1 vs1 and my Tank will loose more times than win. So, by your point of view I should get up here and say that my Tanks damage needs to be buffed. The thing is I chose a support role and don't expect to win 1 vs 1 fights.

I also have a healer and I feel your post is inaccurate. In PvP fights I know I'm making a difference. I don't go out there and just heal though. I go out and cleanse, interrupt, stun, cc, slow, etc. I try to play my character to the full potential available. If I see somebody running around at 10% health trying to get away to heal I'll finish them off. If I see somebody standing to the side and they are healing themselves out of combat then I'll throw a cc on them and let them stand there for 30 seconds more.

I know healers who just heal and they pretty much all suck... In both PvP and in PvE.

[NoTomorrow]

Guys you do understand that every healer buff makes cross-healing exponentially stronger. The last thing we need is multiple healers being able to sustain themselves indefinitely.

 

We need healers to stay in their current healing state, so that when we have many of them, the healing will not go out of proportions.

[BurnsTwoThree]

Guys you do understand that every healer buff makes cross-healing exponentially stronger. The last thing we need is multiple healers being able to sustain themselves indefinitely.

 

We need healers to stay in their current healing state, so that when we have many of them, the healing will not go out of proportions.

 

No, you want healers to stay weak so that nobody will play them and the ones that do will be bad so you can kill them.

 

If there's too many healers, you do not kill anything.... PvP is not fun and nobody dies on either team.

 

If there's no enough heals everybody dies and we have a respawn-fest with no balance and no intuitive to keep healing. Again PvP is not fun and everyone wants to roll the overpowered flavor of the month classes so they can stop feeling like they play an inferior roll regardless if they are a good player on their useless class.

 

If they return healing to how it was, bad players will be forced to learn how to play their classes in order to solo heals. People will learn how ot CC other healers while being healed so they can focus another healer down.

PvP becomes more intuitive for healers because they dont die in one-stun if their CC break is off CD. Ending result: PvP becomes fun for healers other than OPs, bad FOTM classes get put back in their place and this game will stop dying.

 

 

Sorry if you could not solo a healer before they were nerfed but there were good players who could and if they were brought back to the way they were; there will still be good players who will be able to solo them.

Edited July 9, 2012 by BurnsTwoThree

[Never_Hesitate]

Guys you do understand that every healer buff makes cross-healing exponentially stronger. The last thing we need is multiple healers being able to sustain themselves indefinitely.

 

We need healers to stay in their current healing state, so that when we have many of them, the healing will not go out of proportions.

 

IMO if healers are crosshealing it should take a lot of dps' to take them down, since they don't do any dmg and they don't really help their team.

 

And this response coming from a pyrotech.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Never_Hesitate

[LucasEighty]

too much of any class in a WZ is usually a bad thing, a mixed balance is usually best

[Never_Hesitate]

too much of any class in a WZ is usually a bad thing, a mixed balance is usually best

 

Imagine your team being a team with 8 Sorcs.

 

You would just get blown away.

[BraaxusKun]

Healer is a support class. You aren't 1v1 anyone and you are going to be dead if you are alone. You will be dead if you get marked. The only thing that makes it viable is having a team that knows how to protect a healer. The support goes both ways and when a team supports itself the healer WINS the WZ.

 

In a fail pug, the healer might as well just quit. See the thread on quitting WZ.

 

1v1 as a healer is easy

[Never_Hesitate]

1v1 as a healer is easy

 

Yes, the only class I as a sorc heal can't really match in 1v1 is the Pyro PT, because of burst and perma-slow against which I can't do anything.

The other classes are kiteable.

[BurnsTwoThree]

Yes, the only class I as a sorc heal can't really match in 1v1 is the Pyro PT, because of burst and perma-slow against which I can't do anything.

The other classes are kiteable.

 

Sentinel/Marauder? Good luck. And I'm not talking about the FOTM baddies, they can be kited no prob. I'm talking about any of the ones with general understanding of the class and it's over.

[NoTomorrow]

No, you want healers to stay weak so that nobody will play them and the ones that do will be bad so you can kill them.

 

If there's too many healers, you do not kill anything.... PvP is not fun and nobody dies on either team.

 

If there's no enough heals everybody dies and we have a respawn-fest with no balance and no intuitive to keep healing. Again PvP is not fun and everyone wants to roll the overpowered flavor of the month classes so they can stop feeling like they play an inferior roll regardless if they are a good player on their useless class.

 

If they return healing to how it was, bad players will be forced to learn how to play their classes in order to solo heals. People will learn how ot CC other healers while being healed so they can focus another healer down.

PvP becomes more intuitive for healers because they dont die in one-stun if their CC break is off CD. Ending result: PvP becomes fun for healers other than OPs, bad FOTM classes get put back in their place and this game will stop dying.

 

 

Sorry if you could not solo a healer before they were nerfed but there were good players who could and if they were brought back to the way they were; there will still be good players who will be able to solo them.

 

You want to be brought back to the times when your healing output was greater than the DPS output of a class. During those times, a merc healer could stay in front of a sniper and let him use his full rotation and he will still outheal everything. The interrupt on 12 seconds CD is so damn laughable. You want back to those times when your survivability was basically greater than a tank survivability. Why would any DPS consider this a balanced thing?

 

Take a good look at this pre1.2 video.

Watch it entirely pls. This is what you are asking for.

OK, its not 50 vs 50, there was one big bracket, but its enough to understand their incredible potential back then.

No way how I would like to see this crap coming back in SWTOR.

Edited July 9, 2012 by NoTomorrow

[iphobia]

You want to be brought back to the times when your healing output was greater than the DPS output of a class. During those times, a merc healer could stay in front of a sniper and let him use his full rotation and he will still outheal everything. The interrupt on 12 seconds CD is so damn laughable. You want back to those times when your survivability was basically greater than a tank survivability. Why would any DPS consider this a balanced thing?

 

Take a good look at this pre1.2 video.

Watch it entirely pls. This is what you are asking for. No way how I would like to see this crap coming back in SWTOR.

 

As an argument for healers being op pre 1.2 you show us a video of a 9x Gladiator rank 1 Paladin from WoW dominating random people, many of them not even 50, with close to 0 expertise while he's being 50 and has a full set of Battlemaster?

 

2 people on him who know how to play their class could interrupt ~90% of his casts.

 

 

 

Oh, and a Pyro PT QQ'ing about heals?

You know you play the (by far) easiest class/spec in game right now? Even a retarded monkey with one arm could play this and have success with it.

But I guess you are one of the Pyros who are still losing 1v1 against Arsenal Mercs or Lightning Sorcs.

Edited July 9, 2012 by iphobia

[NoTomorrow]

As an argument for healers being op pre 1.2 you show us a video of a 9x Gladiator rank 1 Paladin from WoW dominating random people, many of them not even 50, with close to 0 expertise while he's being 50 and has a full set of Battlemaster?

 

DENIED!

 

2 people on him who know how to play their class could interrupt ~90% of his casts.

 

1. So you are saying that you are nowhere near his skill and could not repeat all what he did in that video before 1.2 as a merc healer?

2. You do not want to acknowledge how powerful was healing scaling with gear. This video proves it. The expertise gave you not only more damage reduction, but also more healing output. And he had enough lvl 50 opponents too.

 

Oh, and a Pyro QQ'ing about heals?

You know you play the (by far) easiest class/spec in game right now? Even a retarded monkey with one arm could play this and have success with it.

But I guess you are one of the Pyros who are still losing 1v1 against Arsenal Mercs or Lightning Sorcs.

 

I am not loosing duels as Pyro. I wipe the floor with most ppl that try to pick on me, except for Assassins that open from stealth and know when to use force shroud. But compared to sniper, my main actually, I CAN FOLLOW HEALERS BEHIND THE FRICKING CORNER and shut the buggers down if they dont have a guard. You know why? Because a decent healer should never die to a ranged DPS class. I am not trying to turn this into PT is OP/not op thread, but i'd rather have things changed (nerfed) for PT than healers receive any sort of buffs.

 

And if you just paused a minute to think, if we are not the ones sending you back to respawn, then who else will do that? Melee classes are like sanitary wolves in a forest, it's our job to keep the warzones a healthy and fun challenge for everyone, not just a cross healing "nobody dies" fest.

 

I said it before and i say it again, cross-healing is the worst plague in a warzone. By no means should any sort of changes tamper with this right now.

 

IMO if healers are crosshealing it should take a lot of dps' to take them down, since they don't do any dmg and they don't really help their team.

 

And this response coming from a pyrotech.

 

the fact is, the game state does not change at all if nobody dies. Who takes advantage of that? defenders! they can keep the door, the point not being captured indefinitely.

Edited July 9, 2012 by NoTomorrow

[Gibbzter]

1. So you are saying that you are nowhere near his skill and could not repeat all what he did in that video before 1.2 as a merc healer?

2. You do not want to acknowledge how powerful was healing scaling with gear. This video proves it. The expertise gave you not only more damage reduction, but also more healing output. And he had enough lvl 50 opponents too.

 

Who said anything about merc? The OP was referring to sorcs and their low survival. Another poster that just reads the title and hits the reply button without reading anything. As a pyro, I don't see what your complaining about anyway. PTs cut through healers like butter nowadays. No interrupts needed.

[Khoraji]

Who said anything about merc? The OP was referring to sorcs and their low survival. Another poster that just reads the title and hits the reply button without reading anything. As a pyro, I don't see what your complaining about anyway. PTs cut through healers like butter nowadays. No interrupts needed.

 

Another poster that doesnt read the thread.

 

He said multiple times that this was an all healer problem, not just sorc.

[iphobia]

1. So you are saying that you are nowhere near his skill and could not repeat all what he did in that video before 1.2 as a merc healer?

2. You do not want to acknowledge how powerful was healing scaling with gear. This video proves it. The expertise gave you not only more damage reduction, but also more healing output. And he had enough lvl 50 opponents too.

 

At least I've never been even close to Glad or R1.

 

Good players have always been able to shut down healers completely on their own.

This video proves absolutely nothing, you cannot simply judge the balancing of a class based on a video.

 

Mercs could need a buff regarding their horrible resource management.

Sorcs could need a big buff regarding their non-existent defensive CD's.

Operatives are fine.

 

You can't just simply say "healers are fine, no buffs needed" when there are 3 completely different healing classes.

 

 

Snipers are absolutely lethal when there is another guy who locks the healer in place/pushes him out into the open field. But I guess that's too much coordination for a DPS who just wants to pewpew everything down.

[Gibbzter]

Another poster that doesnt read the thread.

 

He said multiple times that this was an all healer problem, not just sorc.

 

He is a sorc, open your eyes and read, it's not rocket science. Your credibility went out the window after you posted this:

LMAO

 

expertise does NOTHING for DMG

 

Bonus DMG is completely negated by Mitigation

Bonus Healing reduces trauma (which is better than just a pure bonus btw)

 

Expertise ONLY effects healers.

[MasterPetricco]

I wish we had a death match type WZ so that 3+ healers cross healing have a WZ where they aren't being helpful, just so that can see how other classes feel in the current ones.

 

As it stands right now three OP healers or 2 OPs 1 Sorc will not die while they cross heal each other, okay they aren't helping their team right? Just keeping each other immortal, that'd be great if it was Death Match but in objectives like Civil War, Novar, Voidstar and to a lesser degree Huttball, unkillable defenders completely break the game. Voidstar is a nightmare because of this.

 

If they are cross healing and keeping each other alive for good it should stop them attacking/CCing to stop caps, this is an extreme solution but you can see how easy it is for them, considering they're ranged and have AOEs to stop any attack being succesful until their team mates respawn. Heck I bet even without their team mates they could probably hold the doors a good 5 minutes before dying, and only if CC is used properly. Yet no other class, not even tanks has this level of survivbility.

 

If it takes 2 DPS to kill 1 healer, it's broken, because 2 healers = 4 DPS and 3 = 6 right? very very simple maths.

Okay next lets look at group set numbers, limited at 8, so if you have any chance to kill an enemy team with 3 healers most of your team needs to be DPS with 1 tank and 1 healer? That is stupid, 1 dps should = 1 healer, the healer should require a tank and his DPS to kill his aggressors for him he shouldn't be able to freely roam about healing himself and throwing out a few heals to his team while a DPS is eatting his face. If guarded/taunted even 3 DPS wont take down one healer, there isn't enough damage.

 

It is beginning to highlight a few issues, you need Maras/PTs now because they are the only ones with burst strong enough to shut healers down. Vegenance/Rage Juggers can go sit in the waiting bin, its immortal or nothing Maras are better burners. Snipers? yeah to many obstacles in WZs a healer can easily LOS you and heal back to full. Merc DPS? your okay but suffer the same issues as Snipers, very easy to LOS, you have the luxury of being able to move though. Melee DPS (not including Juggers) needs to remain high for now, because they are the only ones with a chance of shutting down healers.

Edited July 9, 2012 by MasterPetricco