Hating my Sorc right now

[SinnedWill]

Well, yes you can go hybrid to get more cc for PvP, but that will lower your dps or healing. There is also the problem that Bioware don't like us being hybrids (see patch1.2). So where does this leave Sorc PvP? We are probably the third best healing class and in DPS well behind Marauder and Pyro.

 

Sorc/Sage isn't the worst healing class (3rd out of 3 possible classes = worst) if you have other healers - bubbles are proactive healing, and they make it much easier for your other healers to clutch-heal someone on the brink of death that would normally die if the sorc/sage healer wasn't present. And then there's the AoE heals (though this can easily be out-damaged by enemy teams with multiple AoE users). I'd say sorc/sage healers best compliment/synnergize with ops/scound healers (sorc/sage bubbles someone low on health, ops/scound healer gets to free-heal/"fresource" that person back to sustainable levels).

[truchaos]

you should be rooting marauders and rolling with another sorc or sniper that can also root. chain roots shut down marauder DPS potential (along with powertechs, juggernauts if you wait until 4 sec after their leap to KB and root)

 

I'm curious to know where in my full healing spec is this magical 'root' located?

[sisorex]

I can only 1v1 someone if no one else is around.

 

You don't say?

[LancelotOC]

Yea only a hybrid can have a root.

[PloGreen]

12-0 rated warzone 3/7/31 Madness sorc. here. All i can say is that melee shouldn't pose any semblance of a threat to you until you're focus-fired by multiple of them (only time ravage gets to run full cycle is if someone else hard-stuns or chokes me). Individual warriors/knights are a joke to me - only Vengeance Juggs (and the guardian mirror) have the potential to put enough hurt on me in a 1v1 situation (marauders are all burst offensive windows, which are easily countered, vengeance jugg excels at sustained with some very decent spike damage... and... well... madness sorc. is less significant sustained dps and made of glass... but we get a bubble and reactive healing potential -which isn't actually producing the correct healing values, even if you factor in the healing debuff %'s, mind you-).

 

All-in-all I can honestly say that I play my madness sorc. well enough to significantly reduce good enemy teams from constantly dedicating focus-fire on healers (bait, basically), I'm better than others at dealing "spread damage" (Death Field hits 3 targets and I can put DoT's on multiple targets - which makes it more difficult for enemy healers to determine exactly who is getting focus-fired), and my overall survivability is surprisingly high even without a healer to back me up, so I can force enemy teams to dedicate more than 1 person to guard an objective point or they'll risk losing it.

 

Full madness/balance is a great spec but the single biggest problem is force starvation. The problems with melee you describe are the main reason hybrid spec is decent for rateds, because melee will focus you 2 or three at once alot as you climb the ratings, madness wont save you from that. Hybrid dps spec gives you a better bubble break on mezz which is invaluable for you, and the force depletion issue is non existant so that means your bubble will cost you less and its useful on other team mates, the stun break also. You give more support and utililty to your team playing this way imo, but I would not say madness sucks because dps wise its the best spec. I love madness/balance spec but its too easy to die when your focused and you run out of force to quickly imo. Until bioware address those key problems I cant see myself speccing 31 points into balance again.

For the record my rated record so far is 25 wins and 1 loss.

[PloGreen]

While respecting your opinion, I heartily disagree...sorcs need to be more than just a niche peel/ harass class. If I'm going to be this squishy I need to be able to blast a face off. That's the point of a caster class. A glass cannon. I'm all glass - no cannon

 

Well your playing the wrong class if thats what you want. We are not glass cannons, we are closer to a cross between an ele shaman and a disc priest. Most of the damage comes from dots and set ups, burst is next to non existent.

Edited June 28, 2012 by PloGreen

[Caelrie]

Lol im sick of my sin right now.. after getting melted by pyros and marauders i have just decided to finish getting a little bit more WH gear to complete my toon then im rerolling marauder! I say we all reroll marauders!

 

That's the solution. That class will never get nerfed. It's this game's Bright Wizard.

[Evil_Santa]

LOL

 

Took this two nights ago - in ranked.

 

http://i.imgur.com/FbEnh.jpg

 

Totally broken.

[Astarica]

I think this patch actually helped Sorc in terms of DPS. Before by the time I noticed you I'd have lost an insignificant amount of health before I killed you. With the general increase in everyone's DPS, the health I lost by the time I noticed you would be more significant even though you're still dead. You no longer have stuff like Force Lightning just bounce off Marauder/Tankasin. At least it's going to hurt some, though when we hit you back it's going to hurt even more than it did before.

[PloGreen]

Sage sorc are ok, they are not broken. They take a degree of awareness and experience to use well but are a very flexible class in terms of support and bring elements to the game other classes do not. They are an unforgiving class though and the skill cap is steep for new players if they want to get the best out of the class imo.

 

Dps is important, giving out alot damage is really important for pvp - but sorc are not burst classes really, the closest you get to spike damage is telekinesis/lightning and that takes some time to set up welll and is easy to interupt.

But we are not a pure dps class this is the part people seem to gloss over, we are strong because we have decent utility and sustained dps as well as a really good ranged interupt and off healing. We can do nice sustained overall damage but our bread and butter damage comes from mindcrush, weaken mind and force in balance - proccing off pebble spam. We also have a really good shield we can use as offensive cc on ourselves and our team mates, in rateds this is very handy.

People on these forums are too focused on raw dps and burst - the highest rated teams will have this, but they will also use cc wisely and call and focus healers - Sages/sorcs shine at stopping people from healing not just using massive burst damage (nuking through heals) thats not how we are meant to play, we are meant to pressure, interupt cc and dot our opponents as well as cc them when needed (i.e cc one healer healing the other healer, and interupting the healer in front). We also have pretty decent aoe knonckback for clumping melee which can be talented to aoe root, and decent aoe skills such as forcequake you can proc off that to if you spec 20 21 (telewave).

 

Im just not buying this "not viable" stuff because I think its more of an indication of the player, his experience/team/gear than anything else. Perfectly capable class if specced and played correctly, its just not a class that is very forgiving.

Edited June 28, 2012 by PloGreen

[kcol]

If you played a shadow priest in WoW, the 1.2 nerf was almost as bad as the nerf in Cata.....until you learn what to do. I hadn't played my sage since 1.2 hit and with 1.3 I thought I would try it. Amazing what a 2month break will do for your thought process. Although having one of most of the AC's available doesn't hurt either

[Stavroz]

Our class is a sad joke in this environment of super DPS classes.

[dcgregorya]

While respecting your opinion, I heartily disagree...sorcs need to be more than just a niche peel/ harass class. If I'm going to be this squishy I need to be able to blast a face off. That's the point of a caster class. A glass cannon. I'm all glass - no cannon

 

People who think sorcs DPS is bad need a reality check. Sorc DPS is very good, easy and in balance/madness trees highly mobile.

[dcgregorya]

Consider that, for all the people saying play a Sorc just play well and you will be ok, you never see people having to say the same thing to people playing other classes.

 

It's either one of those mass hysteria phenomenoms like those cults that commit mass suicide so aliens take them away and the class is great but few know how to play it.

 

Or the class is bad and great play just makes it somewhat viable just like great play makes some classes amazing.

 

At the end of the day Bioware themselves have said the class is great and people dont know how to play it.

 

So as BW has no intent on changing it, if you feel everyone is wrong all you can do is quit, reroll, or continue taking the beatdown.

 

Pre 1.2 Sorcs had more players than gunslingers, scoundrels and vanguards combined. They just attracted a lot of bads. Lots of people need to learn to play better, but especially people who think that sorcs have bad DPS.

[islander]

You gotta go some hybrid spec and dont let melee kill you, run around and stuff.

 

My favorite healer to pvp with is a sorc, he keeps my hp up and is tough to kill.

 

You can't run forever, and if you do, you're hurting your team more by being unable to heal them.

Any good DPSer will out DPS sorc heals. They'll interrupt the innervate and then you're pretty much done for. You cant heal on the run, you can buble every 17 seconds and keep a trickle hot on you, that's it.

 

I agree with the hybrid spec it allows you to do some decent 'overall' warzone damage - in fact I'll heal 200-250k and still out DPS some baddies. Burst DPS is 0 though, and burst is king.

Edited June 28, 2012 by islander

[islander]

LOL

 

Took this two nights ago - in ranked.

 

http://i.imgur.com/FbEnh.jpg

 

Totally broken.

 

Spec? Is it the 13/28 (or 14/27)?

 

Looks like you had to do nothing but stand there and spam skills. You had 3 healers keeping you all upright. Must be nice.

Edited June 28, 2012 by islander

[DCVAN]

Everyone is always talking about how burst is king in pvp. Which may be true when it comes down to scoring the kill, but people are forgetting how important the dot classes and cc'ers are. I hate to bring up wow, but almost every competitive arena team has a warlock. They don't bring the lock for burst damage, instead they bring a lock so he can put sustained dmg on the whole team while having amazing cc (and dispel protection). I think a sorc/sage dps can fill that role well. A class that can dot multiple targets and deals sustained dmg, complements a burst dmg class. I think having a sorc on your team will help your marauders/pyrotechs/snipers score their kills, by getting the enemy healer multitasking and behind on resources.

 

Just my two cents.

[Astarica]

Everyone is always talking about how burst is king in pvp. Which may be true when it comes down to scoring the kill, but people are forgetting how important the dot classes and cc'ers are. I hate to bring up wow, but almost every competitive arena team has a warlock. They don't bring the lock for burst damage, instead they bring a lock so he can put sustained dmg on the whole team while having amazing cc (and dispel protection). I think a sorc/sage dps can fill that role well. A class that can dot multiple targets and deals sustained dmg, complements a burst dmg class. I think having a sorc on your team will help your marauders/pyrotechs/snipers score their kills, by getting the enemy healer multitasking and behind on resources.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Dots are only worth about half a point of direct damage because they're easy to outheal. That said a good Sorc could do twice the damage of the best single target class. If a Marauder did 500K and a Sorc did 1 million, the Sorc certainly pulled his weight even if it's mostly dots + AEs. But if the Sorc only did 500K, he's usually much worse than the Marauder even if the total numbers read the same.

[UGLYMRJ]

Spec? Is it the 13/28 (or 14/27)?

 

Looks like you had to do nothing but stand there and spam skills. You had 3 healers keeping you all upright. Must be nice.

 

I have a sorc in my guild that puts up numbers similar to this and often better... I've seen him dump totals of up to a million between heals and damage combined. No he didn't have guard, or healers on him. I'm not saying the didn't have healers healing him, but he didn't not have a pocket healer or multiple healers keeping an eye on him. This guys does it over and over and will crush me and my marauder... and I'm better than most marauders. Top or near top damage in every WZ. Sorcs can be beast when used properly. I haven't rolled one yet so I can't give any advice other than do some research. They are capable of some ridiculous numbers.

[FourTwent]

Never felt so freakin squishy...or like my damage is so completely insignficant. We really need an oh crap button and higher damage to effectively compete in pvp right now. A marauder can run up to me and hit that channeled lighstaber attack and knock off half my health. I wouldn't feel so bad except for the fact that my gear is just shy of the best you can have.

 

I've been saying this for a while. It's the reason why I think sorcs are at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to healers. Their utility currently in game just doesn't live up to the type of play thats happening in PvP right now.

[SweetOldBob]

Consider that, for all the people saying play a Sorc just play well and you will be ok, you never see people having to say the same thing to people playing other classes.

Not so. Go to the Commando page; it gets pretty repetitive, except that quite a few say there's no point rather than you have to play well.

[Stavroz]

LOL

 

Took this two nights ago - in ranked.

 

http://i.imgur.com/FbEnh.jpg

 

Totally broken.

 

The Sage/Sorc output is not the problem with the class.

 

Its it total lack of survivability in competitive geared matches, especially for healer variants.

Healers are the most trained classes in the game.

 

Scoundrel healers and Commando healers both have greater survivability making them a more forgiving class.

They both have defensive cool downs that allows them to take care of themselves even while being trained by multiple classes thus they don't have to be babied as much as sages.

 

The smart teams target the sage/sorcs first for a reason. Its no a random event. Its very simple.

 

They are the weakest link in a game.

The fact that you can pull out great numbers is not a necessarily a reflection of your great skill but the lack of skill on the opponents behalf for not training you and getting an easy kill to give its team the numerical advantage.

 

No one is saying that in the hands of a skilled player a sage/sorc is not good. What ppl are saying is that same skilled player will get more out of the other classes as they are superior in many ways.

[wolfmith]

LOL

 

Took this two nights ago - in ranked.

 

http://i.imgur.com/FbEnh.jpg

 

Totally broken.

 

you gotta be joking me.... you haven't even done 75k healing !! I usually do over 100k just spamming bubbles to protect me from atacks ! you must have been focused hard.... lol

[chrisronline]

I'm not participating in rated, so I can only speak of experience in normal WZs, but I'm not finding any problem with my 21/20 hybrid. I don't necessarily end the WZ with the top healing stats or top damage/healing ratio, but I do feel my role is effective in each WZ. I used to be full Seer until 1.2 when I switched to the hybrid and the thing you have to realize about the hybrid is that you should always be DPSing when possible. I love switching gears and starting to lay on some LOLburst DPS on low targets (spam Disturbance until Tidal Force proc then Tidal Force/Project/TeleThrow). Because of that, I'm assisting my team in killing healers and DPS, thus alleviating some of the damage output being done (so even though I heal for less, I help kill to reduce incoming damage, etc). This is especially helpful if you get into a team with multiple healers on your side and you can't kill fast enough to grab an objective.

 

Just remember that as a sage you must always be mobile and position yourself well - do not allow yourself to get caught out in the open when two melee jump you. Also, this information assumes that are you running in PuGs where you do not usually have a guard or friendly peels assisting you.

[ShiroRX]

Squishy, ranged classes need to learn to LOS better. Ya know the old adage, out of sight out of mind. Basically no Sorc I see tries to LOS until they're low (i.e. the dps already found them). The only map where this is a problem is Novare since its so open.

 

Watch Krunchy on twitch.tv for lessons on healing LOS. Should be streaming under mediaswtor name.

Edited June 28, 2012 by ShiroRX